Had my 'first' experience with kickback today. I was cutting a small 4" by
4" square board of walnut for some shims and 'wham', right in the lower
stomach (off to the side). It felt like I was kicked by a mule. Almost
made a trip to the ER to check for internal damage. Just a big bruise and
a damaged ego. Had me thinking that if I had a more powerful saw this would
have been a lot worse.

Could have been prevented but I was just quickly cutting a few shims.

Stupid stupid stupid.

NO splitter. NO push stick.

Got me thinking that a leather shop apron would of helped. Any of you guys
use them for a last line of defense? Where is a good place to buy a good
one?

--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com

On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 17:13:27 -0400, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:

Got me thinking that a leather shop apron would of helped.

Glad to hear you're OK! My only real kickback was a similar
situation. It freakin' HURT! BIG TIME!

I'd skip the apron and put the splitter on.

I should add:
When I went back to survey the damage I noticed that my zero clearance ash
throat plate was cracked in half. Strange.

Also, my project was half assembled behind me. If it didn't hit me it would
have gone through the ply sides of my dresser. I guess I "saved" it.

I swear by use the gripper for small parts or a homemade version. A
push stick could slip off.

On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 17:13:27 -0400, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:

Had my 'first' experience with kickback today. I was cutting a small 4" by
4" square board of walnut for some shims and 'wham', right in the lower
stomach (off to the side). It felt like I was kicked by a mule. Almost
made a trip to the ER to check for internal damage. Just a big bruise and
a damaged ego. Had me thinking that if I had a more powerful saw this would
have been a lot worse.

Could have been prevented but I was just quickly cutting a few shims.

Hmmm, fairly similar to my own experience.

Stupid stupid stupid.

The good news is that you only do it once, unless you are a real SLOW
learner.

NO splitter. NO push stick.

Me too. Now I use a push stick all the time, even although 90% of my
cutting is on a bandsaw.


Got me thinking that a leather shop apron would of helped. Any of you guys
use them for a last line of defense? Where is a good place to buy a good
one?

It should help a little, a bulletproof apron would be better!

Barry

On Jun 2, 4:13 pm, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:
....
...felt like I was kicked by a mule. ...

Don't know if the picture is on the website or not, but one that will
chill you to the bone is in last month's Fine Woodworking --

A thin piece pierced through and through a plastic glue bottle
_without_ turning the bottle over...consider in the abdomen w/ that. :
(

Be careful, guys!!!

--

"henry" wrote in message
ups.com...
I swear by use the gripper for small parts or a homemade version. A
push stick could slip off.


The push stick I "usually" use extends over the stock. It looks like the
letter L with a replaceable dowel on the lower left side of the L.

Stoutman wrote:
| Had my 'first' experience with kickback today. I was cutting a
| small 4" by 4" square board of walnut for some shims and 'wham',
| right in the lower stomach (off to the side). It felt like I was
| kicked by a mule. Almost made a trip to the ER to check for
| internal damage. Just a big bruise and a damaged ego. Had me
| thinking that if I had a more powerful saw this would have been a
| lot worse.

Glad you're ok.

| Could have been prevented but I was just quickly cutting a few
| shims.

And safety doesn't matter if the job is small?

| Stupid stupid stupid.
|
| NO splitter. NO push stick.

Agreed (BTDT)

| Got me thinking that a leather shop apron would of helped. Any of
| you guys use them for a last line of defense? Where is a good
| place to buy a good one?

I doubt it'd help much unless it was lined with steel plate.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Jun 2, 2:13 pm, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:
Had my 'first' experience with kickback today. I was cutting a small 4" by
4" square board of walnut for some shims and 'wham', right in the lower
stomach (off to the side). It felt like I was kicked by a mule. Almost
made a trip to the ER to check for internal damage. Just a big bruise and
a damaged ego. Had me thinking that if I had a more powerful saw this would
have been a lot worse.

Could have been prevented but I was just quickly cutting a few shims.

Stupid stupid stupid.

NO splitter. NO push stick.

Got me thinking that a leather shop apron would of helped. Any of you guys
use them for a last line of defense? Where is a good place to buy a good
one?

--
Stoutmanwww.garagewoodworks.com

Tis painful had one couple years ago right thigh was B&B for a month

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachme...d=11808224 62

In article , .@. says...

I should add:
When I went back to survey the damage I noticed that my zero clearance ash
throat plate was cracked in half. Strange.


That would've been the arse end getting caught up in the teeth of the blade and
getting whacked down into the throat as it went past.

On the subject of unexpected kick-backs: last year my wife and I were drafting
a herd of 3 y.o. bulls and one of them, as he went through the gate next to me,
unexpectedly let fly and got me right in the middle of the back. I found myself
flat on the ground right under the feet of another 10 bulls or so.
My one thought was: "I hope these guys don't get spooked" as I scrambled to get
my hands and feet back under me ...
... that one was nice and yellow and blue for some time as well :-).

Put some arnica cream on it, it helps.

cheers, -P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

Stoutman wrote:
Had my 'first' experience with kickback today. I was cutting a small 4" by
4" square board of walnut for some shims and 'wham', right in the lower
stomach (off to the side). It felt like I was kicked by a mule. Almost
made a trip to the ER to check for internal damage. Just a big bruise and
a damaged ego. Had me thinking that if I had a more powerful saw this would
have been a lot worse.

Could have been prevented but I was just quickly cutting a few shims.

Stupid stupid stupid.

NO splitter. NO push stick.

Got me thinking that a leather shop apron would of helped. Any of you guys
use them for a last line of defense? Where is a good place to buy a good
one?

I've got a Biesmeyer splitter and overhead dust collector and a canvas
apron from Rockler. You gotta buy this stuff and more importantly you
gotta USE it every time.
mahalo,
jo4hn

Sat, Jun 2, 2007, 5:13pm .@. (Stoutman) doth sayeth
snip NO splitter. NO push stick. snip

I do not cnsider lack of a spltter a big deal; "do" cnsider no push
stick a biig deal. VERY big deal, you were NOT standing out of the line
of fire.



JOAT
What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new
humiliations?
- Peter Egan

On Jun 2, 2:13 pm, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:
Had my 'first' experience with kickback today. I was cutting a small 4" by
4" square board of walnut for some shims and 'wham', right in the lower
stomach (off to the side). It felt like I was kicked by a mule. Almost
made a trip to the ER to check for internal damage. Just a big bruise and
a damaged ego. Had me thinking that if I had a more powerful saw this would
have been a lot worse.

Could have been prevented but I was just quickly cutting a few shims.

Stupid stupid stupid.

NO splitter. NO push stick.

Got me thinking that a leather shop apron would of helped. Any of you guys
use them for a last line of defense? Where is a good place to buy a good
one?

--
Stoutmanwww.garagewoodworks.com

Walnut shims? Nice! Glad you're technically okay. Tom

"J T" wrote in message
...
Sat, Jun 2, 2007, 5:13pm .@. (Stoutman) doth sayeth
snip NO splitter. NO push stick. snip

I do not cnsider lack of a spltter a big deal; "do" cnsider no push
stick a biig deal. VERY big deal, you were NOT standing out of the line
of fire.

That little point is SO important.

Like my old shop teacher used to say. You have stand in a position that if
you had a heart attack and died, no wood would hit you. He referred to it
as the "collapse" position. I once asked him if this "collapse" happened
very often. He said these famous words, 'If you cut wood long enough, it
will".

I only got hit once. All those old lessons came rushing back. I haven't
forgot since. The bruise I got took over a month to heal.

woodworkers Supply sells leather Aprons, as well as welding supply
houses. I have been hit above the groin and was thankfull I was not
taller.I allways thought a piece would come straight back as it did in
my case. It was brought to my attention that sheet stock would fly at
me if i was standing to the left of the blade. I use a gripper for
small parts and the magnetic featherboard holders for ripping longer
parts.

B A R R Y wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 17:13:27 -0400, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:

Got me thinking that a leather shop apron would of helped.

Glad to hear you're OK! My only real kickback was a similar
situation. It freakin' HURT! BIG TIME!

I'd skip the apron and put the splitter on.
Would a splitter necessarily help? I think when this happened to me (it
happens *very* fast!) I was just completing about a 5" cut, perhaps 16"
or 18" long off of a piece of 1/2" plywood perhaps 12" wide. At the very
end of the cut the piece came away from the fence and caught the blade.
I am not sure that a splitter would have been able to stop it. I'm
certainly not say don't use one - just that things can still happen.

Harvey

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 13:10:05 -0400, eclipsme
wrote:


Would a splitter necessarily help? I think when this happened to me (it
happens *very* fast!) I was just completing about a 5" cut, perhaps 16"
or 18" long off of a piece of 1/2" plywood perhaps 12" wide. At the very
end of the cut the piece came away from the fence and caught the blade.
I am not sure that a splitter would have been able to stop it. I'm
certainly not say don't use one - just that things can still happen.

One purpose of a splitter is to prevent the already cut wood from
rotating away from the fence and catching the rising teeth. If your
splitter dosen't do that, it's not properly set up.

A board that can't catch a rising tooth can't kick back.

eclipsme wrote:

| Would a splitter necessarily help? I think when this happened to me
| (it happens *very* fast!) I was just completing about a 5" cut,
| perhaps 16" or 18" long off of a piece of 1/2" plywood perhaps 12"
| wide. At the very end of the cut the piece came away from the fence
| and caught the blade. I am not sure that a splitter would have been
| able to stop it. I'm certainly not say don't use one - just that
| things can still happen.

The splitter is a /preventitive/. If the splitter also has
anti-kickback pawls, then /they/ would have held the piece (while the
blade shredded it, if that were the situation).

I went out and bought a pair of Board Buddies to use in conjunction
with my saw's splitter/anti-kickback pawls - like wearing both belt
_and_ suspenders.

Even with those double safeguards, I stay out of the "line of file".

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...
Had my 'first' experience with kickback today. I was cutting a small 4"
by 4" square board of walnut for some shims and 'wham', right in the lower
stomach (off to the side). It felt like I was kicked by a mule. Almost
made a trip to the ER to check for internal damage. Just a big bruise
and a damaged ego. Had me thinking that if I had a more powerful saw this
would have been a lot worse.

Could have been prevented but I was just quickly cutting a few shims.

Stupid stupid stupid.

NO splitter. NO push stick.

Got me thinking that a leather shop apron would of helped. Any of you
guys use them for a last line of defense? Where is a good place to buy a
good one?

--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com



Glad to hear you are able to still type. ;~) It happens to every one at
least once, you let your guard down and do not realize it until it's too
late.
Fear not a more powerful saw. I tripled the HP when I up graded and IMHO
the blade tends to cut rather than stall and throw providing you have
control of the situation. I have felt many "starts" of kickbacks on the
bigger saw but was easily able to push against the wood and prevent lift
off.

If you don't have a set yet, not is a good time to consider the Gripper set
up. You get a very firm handle on things. I recommend using in pairs.

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...

One purpose of a splitter is to prevent the already cut wood from
rotating away from the fence and catching the rising teeth. If your
splitter dosen't do that, it's not properly set up.

A board that can't catch a rising tooth can't kick back.

Well, if your piece of wood is shorter than the length of the exposed teeth
you can have a splitter properly set up and it may not ever come into play.

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
I went out and bought a pair of Board Buddies to use in conjunction
with my saw's splitter/anti-kickback pawls - like wearing both belt
_and_ suspenders.

Must be the time of year when people look to improving their table saws.
Yesterday, I bought Lee Valley's magnetic featherboard combo set. Still
trying to figure out how by turning the knobs on top, the rare earth magnets
let go.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...080,51225&ap=1

Also picked up a microjig splitter and a zero clearance insert.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...080,51225&ap=1
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...080,51225&ap=1

Customize and build yourself a sturdy combo hold-down/push stick "fence
straddler" ala Shopsmith.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:36:23 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

Well, if your piece of wood is shorter than the length of the exposed teeth
you can have a splitter properly set up and it may not ever come into play.

Excellent point, originally lost on me.

I like shop-made jointer style push blocks with replaceable
expendable faces (Staples $1 mouse pads contact cemented in place
G), with the blade only slightly higher than the work, for small
and narrow parts. Think "tightwad's Grrrriper".

On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 17:13:27 -0400, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:

Had my 'first' experience with kickback today. I was cutting a small 4" by
4" square board of walnut for some shims and 'wham', right in the lower
stomach (off to the side). It felt like I was kicked by a mule. Almost
made a trip to the ER to check for internal damage. Just a big bruise and
a damaged ego. Had me thinking that if I had a more powerful saw this would
have been a lot worse.

Could have been prevented but I was just quickly cutting a few shims.

Stupid stupid stupid.

NO splitter. NO push stick.

Got me thinking that a leather shop apron would of helped. Any of you guys
use them for a last line of defense? Where is a good place to buy a good
one?


Cutting squares or smaller pieces increase the chance of kickback. I
like to stand out the "kickback danger zone." A bandsaw would be a
safer choice. I use a canvas apron but not for family-jewel
protection.

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:36:23 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

Well, if your piece of wood is shorter than the length of the exposed
teeth
you can have a splitter properly set up and it may not ever come into
play.

Excellent point, originally lost on me.

I like shop-made jointer style push blocks with replaceable
expendable faces (Staples $1 mouse pads contact cemented in place
G), with the blade only slightly higher than the work, for small
and narrow parts. Think "tightwad's Grrrriper".

That should work...;~)

I ended up buying the Gripper only after seeing it demo'ed at the show. I
was more convinced when I learned that you can buy replacement parts.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:36:23 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"B A R R Y" wrote in message
.. .

One purpose of a splitter is to prevent the already cut wood from
rotating away from the fence and catching the rising teeth. If your
splitter dosen't do that, it's not properly set up.

A board that can't catch a rising tooth can't kick back.

Well, if your piece of wood is shorter than the length of the exposed teeth
you can have a splitter properly set up and it may not ever come into play.


My thoughts when I read the OP saying he was cutting a 4" square
workpiece into bits.

That's not long enough to ride the rip fence and it's not big enough
to use a miter gauge.

A cutoff sled maybe; better a bandsaw.

Sun, Jun 3, 2007, 2:16am
(Lee*Michaels) doth sayeth:
That little point is SO important.
Like my old shop teacher used to say. snip

My shop teacher didn't say that. What he did was explain what
kickback was, then he purposely caused one, so we coud all see it. VERY
impressive. Then he told us to stay out of the way of a kickback and we
wouldn't have any problem. That was 1955, I was 14 1/2. That was the
first year we were allowed to use the table saw on our own, before then
all cutting was done by the shop teacher. I still remember that every
time I use my saw.



JOAT
What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new
humiliations?
- Peter Egan

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 22:02:30 GMT, Phisherman wrote:

Cutting squares or smaller pieces increase the chance of kickback. I
like to stand out the "kickback danger zone." A bandsaw would be a
safer choice. I use a canvas apron but not for family-jewel
protection.

Very true. Any time the length of the cut is not greater than the
distance to the fence, especially if cut length is also less than the
length of the exposed blade, you're in a crosscut situation and it
should be treated as such irrespective of whatever direction the
wood's grain is running.

IMO, the terms "rip" and "crosscut" relative to wood grain direction
have meaning in the Neander world because of the difference in handsaw
tooth form and sharpening. Normites at the tablesaw should forget
grain direction and look strictly at cut geometry in treating a cut as
a "rip" or "crosscut" and act accordingly.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 17:13:27 -0400, Stoutman wrote:
Had my 'first' experience with kickback today. I was cutting a small 4" by
4" square board of walnut for some shims and 'wham', right in the lower
stomach (off to the side). It felt like I was kicked by a mule. Almost
made a trip to the ER to check for internal damage. Just a big bruise and
a damaged ego. Had me thinking that if I had a more powerful saw this would
have been a lot worse.

Could have been prevented but I was just quickly cutting a few shims.

Stupid stupid stupid.

NO splitter. NO push stick.

Got me thinking that a leather shop apron would of helped. Any of you guys
use them for a last line of defense? Where is a good place to buy a good
one?

Forget the apron, unless it has a steel plate in it.

For that kind of cut, use a sled.

--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 18:12:41 -0700, Wes Stewart
wrote:

A cutoff sled maybe; better a bandsaw.

I would have been using a sled for anything that small, especially
since at that size, it's difficult to really guarantee square cuts
without a sled.