A friend is building a shop (for pottery making) and wants fluorescent
lighting that is like daylight for colors. What type is best, and do
they make these in T8?
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

The problem with troubleshooting is
that real trouble shoots back.

On Wed, 16 May 2007 19:00:42 -0400, Gerald Ross
wrote:

A friend is building a shop (for pottery making) and wants fluorescent
lighting that is like daylight for colors. What type is best, and do
they make these in T8?

You may find that a mixture of tube types (Daylight White, Warm White)
gives a truer color appearance than the Daylight White alone.

You probably do NOT want Warm White only, as most people think they
are too pink.

Since color is subjective and artists are more critical of lighting
color, you probably need to have the friend take samples of favorite
colors and see how they look under each bulb type.

It may help if you can find a spectrum chart at the manufacturer's
site.

John

Gerald Ross wrote:

A friend is building a shop (for pottery making) and wants fluorescent
lighting that is like daylight for colors. What type is best, and do
they make these in T8?

If you are trying to duplicate natural light with artificial sources,
you can't get there from here without spending lots of money.

People attempt to do this with what is known as a "Color Table", which
is relatively small.

They consist of a mix of lamp types, operating at controlled voltage
and temperature as well as being operated over a very tightly
controlled life span.

OTOH, if you simply want to obtain a pleasing to the eye color
rendition of the pottery, that is another matter.

As I once told customers, if all you need is a consistent color from
batch to batch, that does not require an expensive lighting system.

If true pink looks like purple under your lights, as long as it is the
same color of purple every time, it is not a problem.

Exact color rendition is VERY expensive.

Lew

On Wed, 16 May 2007 19:00:42 -0400, Gerald Ross wrote:

A friend is building a shop (for pottery making) and wants
fluorescent lighting that is like daylight for colors. What type is
best, and do they make these in T8?

What you want is a bulb with a high Color Rendering Index (CRI) value.
This is a percentage, the proximity of the light color to natural
sunlight. Anything 92 or above is very good, and you can find 48" long
ones at the local home improvement place for about $5 each.

I purchased Philips brand bulbs with a 92 CRI for a 4-bulb fixture in
our master closet and it would fool someone into believing it is a
skylight. With four bulbs it is very bright, the color is very white
and clear, although my wife sees it as a fraction blue....

....that's the caveat, sunlight from directly overhead *is* blueish,
which is why our fixture look like a skylight. Many people have become
accustomed to reddish incandescent light and prefer the color of
morning or evening sunlight over noon. In these cases, very high CRI
bulbs can seem too hot, although they are no where near as blue as the
typical fluorescent bulb. For fashion and art, lighting sometimes is
intentionally forced to the red side of the spectrum to convey the
feel of evening or candlelight and to exaggerate reds. Likewise for
film, Kodak is often preferred over Fuji for the same reasons.

The bottom line is some prefer to *match* the shop/studio conditions
to the final resting place for the piece, be it art or furniture.
However, my preference is to go with *accurate* rendering of sunlight
since it is fairly in the middle and a safe hedge against being too
far either way. Plus, it feels more like outside, perhaps what your
friend's desire is, too.


--
Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ]

Gerald:

Actually, "daylight" is about 6400 degrees Kelvin and yes, they do make T8
bulbs close to 6400 degrees K (maybe it's 6200K, I don't remember). Get
them at Home Depot, I think they're in the blue-ended Phillips container.
Most people don't like them in their home, because they seem too "cold"
(i.e. blue). Actually, they really appear too hot (blue is "hotter" than
red), but that's people for you. Anyway, we're sort of used to incandescant
lighting (standard light bulbs) which are really kind of orangish, so when
we see indoor lighting that is the same color temperature as daylight
(6400K), it looks way too blue to us. I use the 6400K bulbs in the laundry,
because it makes it really easy to distinguish between navy and black socks.

By the way, a lot of people say that they want "daylight" lighting, but
sometimes that's not really true. If you friend is going to be making
pottery that will be used or displayed outdoors mostly, then daylight color
rendition is probably best. But if they are making pottery that will be
used and displayed indoors under incandescent light, then maybe they really
want lighting that is closer to incandescent, i.e., 3400K (these are in the
reddish-ended Phillips containers).

Anybody who does any semi-serious photography has to learn this stuff if
they want to make decent photos.

BruceT


"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
...
A friend is building a shop (for pottery making) and wants fluorescent
lighting that is like daylight for colors. What type is best, and do they
make these in T8?
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

The problem with troubleshooting is
that real trouble shoots back.

Gerald Ross wrote:
A friend is building a shop (for pottery making) and wants fluorescent
lighting that is like daylight for colors. What type is best, and do
they make these in T8?

For accurate colours you want a high CRI rating (100 is "perfect").
Totally aside from the CRI value is the colour temperature, which
determines whether the colour is biased towards red or blue.


One very high quality T8 bulb is the Philips TL 950. This bulb has a
CRI of 98, and a colour temperature of 5000K which is quite white but
not as blue as a 6000K or 6500K bulb. They also have other bulbs at
different temperatures with somewhat lower CRI ratings.

One step down from this there are quite a few manufacturers that make
bulbs with CRI values of 84-86 and colour temperatures ranging from
3000-6500K so you can pick exactly what you want.

Chris

Bruce T wrote:
Gerald:

Actually, "daylight" is about 6400 degrees Kelvin and yes, they do make T8
bulbs close to 6400 degrees K (maybe it's 6200K, I don't remember). Get
them at Home Depot, I think they're in the blue-ended Phillips container.
Most people don't like them in their home, because they seem too "cold"
(i.e. blue). Actually, they really appear too hot (blue is "hotter" than
red), but that's people for you. Anyway, we're sort of used to incandescant
lighting (standard light bulbs) which are really kind of orangish, so when
we see indoor lighting that is the same color temperature as daylight
(6400K), it looks way too blue to us. I use the 6400K bulbs in the laundry,
because it makes it really easy to distinguish between navy and black socks.

By the way, a lot of people say that they want "daylight" lighting, but
sometimes that's not really true. If you friend is going to be making
pottery that will be used or displayed outdoors mostly, then daylight color
rendition is probably best. But if they are making pottery that will be
used and displayed indoors under incandescent light, then maybe they really
want lighting that is closer to incandescent, i.e., 3400K (these are in the
reddish-ended Phillips containers).

Anybody who does any semi-serious photography has to learn this stuff if
they want to make decent photos.

BruceT


"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
...
A friend is building a shop (for pottery making) and wants fluorescent
lighting that is like daylight for colors. What type is best, and do they
make these in T8?

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

The problem with troubleshooting is
that real trouble shoots back.

Gerald Ross wrote:
A friend is building a shop (for pottery making) and wants fluorescent
lighting that is like daylight for colors. What type is best, and do
they make these in T8?

Thanks to you all for your insightful replies to a mostly off-topic
question.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

The problem with troubleshooting is
that real trouble shoots back.

On May 16, 7:00 pm, Gerald Ross wrote:
A friend is building a shop (for pottery making) and wants fluorescent
lighting that is like daylight for colors. What type is best, and do
they make these in T8?
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

The problem with troubleshooting is
that real trouble shoots back.

After you sort out your mix of flourescents consider adding a few
small incandescent lamps close to the wheels so that rotating parts do
not look stopped due to the flicker .

beecrofter wrote:
On May 16, 7:00 pm, Gerald Ross wrote:
A friend is building a shop (for pottery making) and wants fluorescent
lighting that is like daylight for colors. What type is best, and do
they make these in T8?
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

The problem with troubleshooting is
that real trouble shoots back.

After you sort out your mix of flourescents consider adding a few
small incandescent lamps close to the wheels so that rotating parts do
not look stopped due to the flicker .

Good thought! I never thought of that. Thanks.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

The problem with troubleshooting is
that real trouble shoots back.

Gerald Ross writes:
A friend is building a shop (for pottery making) and wants fluorescent
lighting that is like daylight for colors. What type is best, and do
they make these in T8?
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

The problem with troubleshooting is
that real trouble shoots back.



Look for Chroma 50 (sometimes known as C-50) bulbs. They have a color
rendition index pretty darn close to daylight. The Borg carries them.

scott

On May 17, 9:25 am, beecrofter wrote:
On May 16, 7:00 pm, Gerald Ross wrote:

A friend is building a shop (for pottery making) and wants fluorescent
lighting that is like daylight for colors. What type is best, and do
they make these in T8?
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

The problem with troubleshooting is
that real trouble shoots back.

After you sort out your mix of flourescents consider adding a few
small incandescent lamps close to the wheels so that rotating parts do
not look stopped due to the flicker .

Or wire every odd one out-of-phase.

Scott Lurndal wrote:

Look for Chroma 50 (sometimes known as C-50) bulbs. They have a color
rendition index pretty darn close to daylight. The Borg carries them.

The Borg doesn't carry them around here. Closest thing they have is the
Philips "natural sunshine" in a T12.

Chris

On Thu, 17 May 2007 22:54:10 -0600, Chris Friesen wrote:
Scott Lurndal wrote:

Look for Chroma 50 (sometimes known as C-50) bulbs. They have a
color rendition index pretty darn close to daylight. The Borg
carries them.

The Borg doesn't carry them around here. Closest thing they have is
the Philips "natural sunshine" in a T12.

Those are great bulbs, that's what I use and they have a CRI of 92.

--
Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ]

On 17 May 2007 17:28:23 -0700, Robatoy wrote:
..

Or wire every odd one out-of-phase.

How are you planning to do that?

Just go with electronic ballasts. They operat at about 25KHz. The T8
lamp is probably the best value of the fluorescent lamps if color is
important, but as was previously stated if you want the highest color
rendering lamps it will cost you about double per lamp.
Mike M


On Sat, 19 May 2007 22:20:07 -0500, Tom Veatch wrote:

On Sat, 19 May 2007 18:43:01 -0700, Wes Stewart
wrote:

On 17 May 2007 17:28:23 -0700, Robatoy wrote:
.

Or wire every odd one out-of-phase.

How are you planning to do that?

Maybe use both legs of a 240v branch? Each leg is 180 deg out-of-phase
to the other leg and 120v to neutral. Would require 240v breaker and 4
wire cable (3 conductor + ground) with alternate fixtures fed by
opposite legs.

Or use two 120v circuits fed by breakers on opposite legs of the
service at the breaker box.

Not sure that would stop the stroboscopic effect since both legs of
240v two-phase service go to zero voltage at the same time. Now if you
had 3 phase service (three hots with 120 degree phase differences) you
might have a better shot at it. Two out of the three phases would be
at non-zero voltage at all times.