Corner of My Mind wrote:

alexy wrote:

Fundamentals of woodworking sounds like
a good into course, although heavily power tool oriented.

I didn't see a "Fundamentals of Woodworking" course in the ones offered
by the local store. That would be good class though.
Pompano Beach June 2-3

--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

SWDeveloper wrote:
If I had to pick one, I would do the Table saw. Then the router class

I agree with the table saw. I probably use it more than any other
power tool in the shop. But, you can do woodworking for a lifetime
and not use a table saw at all.

Interesting paradox. A tool that is used most often but is not needed.

Quality hand tools are a good
investment as they can last a liftetime and many still prove useful
after you buy power tools.

The question is how does a newbie spot a quality tool if he doesn't know
what to look for? Is there a brand that is known to only product
quality tools? Just look for the most expensive of that tool available?

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:32:14 -0500, shawn
wrote:

Corner of My Mind wrote:
John Flatley wrote:

The Woodcraft stores have a pretty good lineup of
classes at reasonable prices.


This seems like an excellent idea. Thanks.

They have 22 classes taught at the nearest location. Of those, I'm
guessing the following 3 would be most beneficial for a newbie like me:

* "Woodturning 101 & 201" - 2 Days (15 hours total - lunches?) for $250

* "Tablesaws from A to Z" - 1 Day for $75

* "Learning the Router" - 1 Day (5.5 hours - lunch?) for $75 + materials

So, for about $400 I can become a pro


You might also check the Constantine's store in Ft.
Lauderdale for classes and clubs.


I didn't find any classes listed on their website
(http://www.constantines.com/) but I'll drop by and get to know the
place as well as Woodcraft store


Good hunting and welcome aboard,


Thank you.
If I had to pick one, I would do the Table saw. Then the router class


I agree with the table saw. I probably use it more than any other
power tool in the shop. But, you can do woodworking for a lifetime
and not use a table saw at all. I have two routers and these are
useful and very versatile tools also. Quality hand tools are a good
investment as they can last a liftetime and many still prove useful
after you buy power tools.

wrote:
1. Go to the public library and read the woodworking books. All of
them. Read first to get you exposed to the tools and different
methods of doing things.

I like to write on the margins and highlight passages in books so I'll
probably end of buying most books. Well, if I did get library books, I
guess I could photocopy the interesting pages and then write on those.

2. Best/only way to learn a hands on craft such as woodworking is to
do it. With some basic knowledge and ideas gained from reading the
books. Think of something you want to do, then read up on the
specific task you want to do.

Oh...I do that. I tend to research topics before doing them and one of
the reasons I decided to subscribe to this newsgroup.

3. Decide if you have the tools to do the job. Buy, borrow the right
tools to do the job. Or figure out an alternative way to do the job
with the tools you have. May have to reread up on the topic.

Is woodworking an expensive hobby in order to have a "complete" set of
tools needed? What would be a good budget? $1000, $2000, $5000, other?

4. Do the job. Only way to learn a craft such as woodworking is by
doing.

Yes. I imagine so. I just wanted some direction first from a teacher so
that I don't make a mistake I can't fix (like losing a finger).

I've taken several classes. A few hands on where I used the tools and
a few where I sat in the audience and watched a slide show or the
woodworker do the task in front of the group. Hands on were the
best. But even then you have to immediately follow up at home with
the same task to really learn the task or you forget it too quickly
after the teacher shows you how. Watching others do it is enjoyable,
but without hands on experience or an immediate job to apply the
technique to, there really isn't any learning.

Learn woodworking by doing. After you learn some stuff on your own
then maybe take a hands on class for something specific. Maybe
reinforce what you learned on your own or to correct something you are
not doing right now. But the class will really just build on what you
already know. It won't get you started.

Sort of like learning a little first so that you can then ask an expert
more insightful questions.

ok.

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:01:37 -0400, Corner of My Mind
wrote:

alexy wrote:
Corner of My Mind wrote:
I'm hoping the initial upfront costs of buying tools and learning are
soon recovered (and then some) by savings between building things versus
buying them.
I'm sure we've all used that rationalization. But don't kid yourself.
You will not know when to use cheap materials and when to use better,
so you will buy all good stuff and spend more on materials than a pro
will. Or you will cut corners when you shouldn't, then have to throw
away the bad materials and replace with good, spending more on
materials than a pro will. Or you will screw up something and end up
spending more on materials than a pro will.

DAMHIKT!!!

And often when making something, you will not be willing to accept the
compromises that you find perfectly acceptable when buying a finished
piece of furniture.

I hadn't thought of those issues.

Plus I'm hoping custom built built-ins look better than
store bought shelves.
That, to me, is a better reason for doing the work, if you need one
other than enjoying it.

I am a computer nerd and enjoy tinkering alone so I do imagine I would
also enjoy woodworking also.

My math abilities complement both programming and woodworking.

alexy wrote:
I didn't see a "Fundamentals of Woodworking" course in the ones offered
by the local store. That would be good class though.
Pompano Beach June 2-3

I must have been blind. It is right there on the top of the second
page. I wonder if I didn't "detect" that it was there because of the
background color being different for that class versus all the other ones.

Thanks.

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:57:49 -0400, Corner of My Mind
wrote:

The question is how does a newbie spot a quality tool if he doesn't know
what to look for? Is there a brand that is known to only product
quality tools? Just look for the most expensive of that tool available?

General rule of thumb, you get what you pay for a $99 tablesaw versus
a $500 as far a portables. A good fence though can make a cheap saw
better. Google can be a good help, you can find reviews and opinions
of the tool in question. When getting ready to purchase find a dealer
who will let you touch and use it prior to investing your money in the
tool.

Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618

Corner of My Mind wrote:
Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
In this area, the local community college offers night classes in various
locations, including several area high schools. The high schools themselves
don't offer anything to adults... and damned little to the kids, but that's
another story.

I'll have to check locally to see if I'm lucky enough to be in a
district that does offer high school adult education as a choice.


I wasn't referring to high school adult education. I was referring to the local
community college holding its classes in several locations... on the main
campus, at five satellite campuses, and at three local high schools (for night
classes only). The place to start is the local community college.

These are college courses, not high school courses.... even if they're taught at
one.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Corner of My Mind wrote:

SWDeveloper wrote:
If I had to pick one, I would do the Table saw. Then the router class

I agree with the table saw. I probably use it more than any other
power tool in the shop. But, you can do woodworking for a lifetime
and not use a table saw at all.

Interesting paradox. A tool that is used most often but is not needed.
Yes, it does seem paradoxical, but my experience is the same as SWD's.
I'll explain it this way: For 80% of the wood cutting I do (excluding
hand-cut joinery), the table saw is the most convenient and does the
best job. So it gets used the most. For the occasional crosscut of
heavy/long/unwieldy boards, I will use the radial arm saw, but could
do it on a table saw with outrigger supports. For resawing (cutting a
board across its thickness dimension), I will use the bandsaw (the
only way for wider boards, and the best way for all). For ripping
thick or gnarly wood, for cuts in very small pieces of wood, or for
curved cuts, I will use the bandsaw (safest for problem rips and cuts
of small pieces). If I had to have only one stationary power saw, I'd
choose the bandsaw, but I'd have to plane all the rip cuts I did to
get as straight an edge as I would get off the table saw.

Quality hand tools are a good
investment as they can last a liftetime and many still prove useful
after you buy power tools.

The question is how does a newbie spot a quality tool if he doesn't know
what to look for?
That's where a class will help, as long as you keep in mind that a
class in a Woodcraft store might not recommend, e.g., tools you can
get off ebay g.

Is there a brand that is known to only product
quality tools?
Sure. It's hard to go wrong with Veritas (direct from Lee Valley, and
some lines, but not planes, distributed through other retail channels
such as Woodcraft) or Lie-Nielsen (direct or retailers such as
woodcraft). But in my opinion, they might be a little pricey--good
value and worth the price if you will be using them, but maybe too
much to spend before you see where your interests lie.

Just look for the most expensive of that tool available?
Of course, that works, but might not be the best approach.
It's hard to go wrong with a Holtey (or Sauer & Steiner, or Marcou, or
....), but I don't think I would be able to appreciate its value.
http://www.holteyplanes.com/

Of course, don't go purely by price, or you will find yourself getting
collectibles rather than users:
http://www.finetoolj.com/bas/home.html


--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

Corner of My Mind wrote:

Bill in Detroit wrote:

I basically got nothing out of the class, which ended early. NO hands-on
time. ALL show & tell. Overpriced by about $70.00.



Oh...NO!!! That is _NOT_ what I wanted to hear!!!

I was really leaning towards signing up and was actually going to drop
by after work today to sign up and take a look around the store.


Remember that Woodcraft is a franchise operation. Go to the store near you.
Talk to them and find out what the class is like. If possible, talk to some
customers who have taken the classes.

All I can tell you is that Bills comment certainly doesn't apply to the
Woodcraft I work for. I went to his web page to find out where he was, but
couldn't (Bill, I kept getting "This can be managed under Documents - Site
Documents in the admin control panel." on the contact and about us pages).

Offhand, I can't think of a single class at our store that isn't hands on. In
the turning, carving, scroll saw, woodburning, cabinet making, etc. classes
the students each complete a project and take it home with them.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

Corner of My Mind wrote:

The question is how does a newbie spot a quality tool if he doesn't know
what to look for?**Is*there*a*brand*that*is*known*to*only*produ ct
quality tools?**Just*look*for*the*most*expensive*of*that*t ool*available?

You've just sparked another holy war :-).

For most woodworking tools, stay away from Sears. Even further away from
Harbor Freight. For hand tools Lie-Neilson and Veritas are hard to beat, but
Sorby has some decent chisels. For power tools, Powermatic, General, and
Festool are hard to beat, But Porter-Cable, Jet, Bosch, and DeWalt aren't far
behind. On the low end, Rikon does pretty well, at least we haven't had many
complaints, and Ridgid has some nice stuff as well. Triton makes a good
router and Incra has some nifty measuring tools.

Note that these are my opinions and I'm sure I've left out some toolmakers
with good products. Probably some that we carry :-).

--
It's turtles, all the way down

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:57:49 -0400, Corner of My Mind
wrote:

SWDeveloper wrote:
If I had to pick one, I would do the Table saw. Then the router class

I agree with the table saw. I probably use it more than any other
power tool in the shop. But, you can do woodworking for a lifetime
and not use a table saw at all.

Interesting paradox. A tool that is used most often but is not needed.

Yes. Something like a SWMBO.
;-)

Quality hand tools are a good
investment as they can last a liftetime and many still prove useful
after you buy power tools.

The question is how does a newbie spot a quality tool if he doesn't know
what to look for? Is there a brand that is known to only product
quality tools? Just look for the most expensive of that tool available?

Brands are a good place to start. Where a tool is made says a lot
when comparing woodworking tools. For example, a pair of shoes made
in China is usually a good deal, but a tool made in China is
questionable. I bought a grinder stand in China, but quality in a
stand is usually not too important. There are tool reviews in
magazines you can use as a guideline. If you get the chance to use
tools of varying quality that will tell a lot. A cheap tool of low
quality will perhaps cost more in the long run because you will have
to replace it in the middle of a project--a very frustrating
experience. Be careful what you buy at Harbor Frieght. Soon after
woodworking for awhile you will soon realize the importance of
sharpening tools and the skill to do it.

On Apr 4, 10:57 am, Corner of My Mind
wrote:
Hi,

I'm new to this newsgroup...been lurking for a week.

I live in Broward County, Florida, US and am interested in picking up
woodworking as a hobby and to do home improvements like built-ins or
trim work. The time I have available are night and weekends.

Last time I worked with wood was in high school (late 1980s) and I
remember I wasn't very good.

I'm trying to think of different options available for me to learn.
* Reading:
* This newgroup
* Searching google
* Books
* Hands-on:
* Community College Class? (I'll have to search and see if this is
available in my area)
* Volunteering for FREE with a local woodworking business. May not
make sense since they are probably on open the same hours I'm at work.
* Find a new friend? I don't know anyone in the area that does
woodworking. (I wonder if there are any clubs in the area that people
meet physically instead of online.)

I really believe I would learn best by seeing someone do something, with
me helping, and later doing it all by myself.

Any other ideas?

Who taught you? Your dad? friend? some other way?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

I caught the bug only a year or so ago. Up until then I'd only ever
done the usual basic fix-ups/repairs around the house kind of thing.
I started with some small projects and worked my way up until I made
built-in bookcases for my study. In addition to several key
woodworking books as well as this newsgroup, I found the woodworking
magazines to be extremely helpful - WOOD, Popular Woodworking, Fine
Woodworking, Shop Notes, etc. Get a subscription to one, then buy the
others in between as needed. I have a stack over a foot thick
already.

As others mentioned, the various TV woodworking shows (Woodworks, New
Yankee Workshop) and your local library are good resources. Besides
WW books, mine has several excellent tapes and DVDs on using the
various power tools, finishing, etc. I'll second the opinion that
this is really a solitary hobby - I doubt most experienced woodworkers
would feel comfortable having someone hang around watching asking
questions, and by the same token I think I'd find it awfully boring to
be the one stuck sitting and just watching someone else.

My grandfather was a cabinet maker, but he died soon after I was born;
I have his toolbox and a few of his old tools. My dad is not at all a
handyman, so I never had the benefit of early mentoring. I can't
really say what got me interested - it just sort of hit me one day. I
think I like the fact that you are forced to take your time. It's a
very relaxing hobby in that sense - the one thing you get to do that
you don't have to rush through (well, maybe one of two things!)

Corner of My Mind wrote:

Well...this is a completely opposite experience than Bill experienced
when he took the router class. I wonder if the teaching technique is
different based on the class or based on the store/teacher. Since I
would be going to the pompano store also because it is the local one to
me, this makes me feel a little better.


I suspect that it is store / teacher specific and that is why I
suggested nosing around before signing up. The Pompano store has had a
good recommendation. Two year ago I'd have given my local store much the
same recommendation as a former in-law was teaching many of the classes
then. We don't keep in touch much and he seems to have moved on. Pity
.... he actually knew what he was doing and how to present it.

Bill




--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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"mjd" wrote in message

this is really a solitary hobby - I doubt most experienced woodworkers
would feel comfortable having someone hang around watching asking
questions, and by the same token I think I'd find it awfully boring to
be the one stuck sitting and just watching someone else.

Speak for yourself ... I thoroughly enjoy having someone in the shop, to
either help, talk or work.


My grandfather was a cabinet maker,

One of my one was also, among other things.

but he died soon after I was born;
I have his toolbox and a few of his old tools. My dad is not at all a
handyman, so I never had the benefit of early mentoring. I can't
really say what got me interested - it just sort of hit me one day.

I'm convinced that if you look back far enough, it's in the genes.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07

On Apr 5, 2:26 pm, "Swingman" wrote:
"mjd" wrote in message
this is really a solitary hobby - I doubt most experienced woodworkers
would feel comfortable having someone hang around watching asking
questions, and by the same token I think I'd find it awfully boring to
be the one stuck sitting and just watching someone else.

Speak for yourself ... I thoroughly enjoy having someone in the shop, to
either help, talk or work.

my bad - should've stuck with the YMMV rule instead of projecting
others opinions. So far, for me at least, shop time is a nice break
for some solitude, and that way nobody sees the pondering, head-
scratching, and mistakes. Certainly if the OP finds someone
experienced who would enjoy showing him the ropes, that would be very
valuable.

Corner of My Mind wrote:
SWDeveloper wrote:
If I had to pick one, I would do the Table saw. Then the router class
I agree with the table saw. I probably use it more than any other
power tool in the shop. But, you can do woodworking for a lifetime
and not use a table saw at all.

Interesting paradox. A tool that is used most often but is not needed.

Quality hand tools are a good
investment as they can last a liftetime and many still prove useful
after you buy power tools.

The question is how does a newbie spot a quality tool if he doesn't know
what to look for? Is there a brand that is known to only product
quality tools? Just look for the most expensive of that tool available?



Oddly enough, in tools that are not designed for hand use, weight is a
good indicator of quality. Even there, it can serve as one useful
indicator. A heavier tool generally has more and thicker metal ... it's
made to last longer. There is a good chance that bearings and such were
chosen to complement that innate sturdiness.

Lots and lots of folks will diss a Craftsman cast iron top table saw.
But even more own and use them. It's not a cabinet saw by any means ...
but they are available used for about $100-200 all the time. Some might
take the tack that so many of them on the market is a clue that they are
not worth much ... but Sears sold a TON of these saws - there are a
jillion of them still in use. So they come on the market fairly often.
People die, retire, lose interest or upgrade all the time. Rarely are
they trying to sell their problem. The saws being sold are often decades
old ... and still working just fine. I bought a model that was perhaps
15 years old for $150. I knocked some light rust off the top, aligned
everything and popped on a new belt and I was in business. Eventually I
plan to upgrade the rip fence ... but the saw is staying.

I use a number of Harbor Freight tools ... as do many on this list. I
have a jointer, planer, 14" bandsaw + riser kit, router, 2 lathes and a
dust collector from them. As a newbie, that put a lot of capacity in my
shop for $1,500.

Here's a quote from Wikipedia:
"Many of the Asian imports, such as machine tools, available from Harbor
Freight are also imported and sold under different brand names by other
United States tool distributors, usually at somewhat higher prices
(sometimes justified as buying better quality control). Several of these
products, such as the perennially available 7"x10" metal-cutting
mini-lathe and the 4"x6" horizontal/vertical metal-cutting bandsaw, have
achieved near-legendary status among metalworking hobbyists."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbor_Freight_Tools



The only purchase of that group I regret is the planer. The moving table
design makes it hard to add an auxiliary table. It has NO provisions for
dust collection but I was able to handle that with a pair of tin snips,
a piece of Plexiglas and a universal dust collection port from either
Rocklers or Woodcraft. But, these design flaws aside, it planes wood
flat and parallel ... and that's what I bought it to do. My next planer
will have a moving head / fixed table design.

I got a cheapo drill press based on its quill travel and price point
from an Ace hardware. In time, a shop built table more suited to
woodwork was added adapted from plans published by Shop Notes (larger
than, and bolted to, the original metalworking table, with excellent
dust collection and ) and I will probably keep it until it fails
completely before upgrading to a sturdier machine. Drill presses are not
intended for precision work, so a SMALL amount of run-out is acceptable.
It drills holes through wood and that's why I bought it. You may hear
fanatics talk about sub .001" run-out on their quills; but let me make
two points: 1) the quill doesn't cut anything ... the run-out needs to
be measured at the drill point and 2) wood itself can't hold a tolerance
of .001" and, AFAICT, never needs to. So the argument is moot. Probably
99% of the holes I drill actually benefit from being slightly oversize
in order to allow bolt clearance or glue room. And the rest, like
pre-drilled screw holes, don't matter.

I have since replaced a wing of my table saw with a shop-built router
table and a Milwaukee 8650 (?) router.

I will be upgrading the lathe in the near future but all the turned work
on my website was produced by
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=34706
primarily using these cutters:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47066

(Note that, due to its high minimum speed of 600 rpm, any extra capacity
gained by turning its head cannot, IMHO, be safely used. I would NOT
want an unbalanced 24" rough blank spinning at 600 rpm in the same room
with me. Things are exciting enough with a 12" blank in the same
condition and would be 4x worse at 24")

Bill
--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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Corner of My Mind wrote:
| Morris Dovey wrote:
|| mistake called for a "board stretcher" or an "unsaw" for recovery.
|
| How much do those specialized tools cost and what is a good brand
| to buy?

Board stretchers are generally made of a special alloy of Unobtanium,
and if you need to ask the price, then you're disqualified forever as
a purchaser.

I don't know much about unsaws - I think you' probably have to ask
this question in news:alt.trinaries.sorcery.woodworking. I recall
hearing a rumor about mounting a sawblade backward and chanting
"wasnu" as the stock is fed, but there is some danger of kickback (not
the stock - the unsaw.)

|| When I backed up and forced myself to learn to use hand tools
|| first, I began paying attention to the grain and how different
|| woods responded to being cut. The most-used tool in my shop today
|| is a CNC router - but for those jobs in which I have any emotional
|| investment, I still pull out my chisel roll, a plane (or three),
|| and a scraper to clean up things my eyes can't see but my
|| fingertips tell me aren't quite right yet.
||
|| When I moved back from hand to power tools I discovered that I'd
|| developed a better sense of what would "work", higher standards and
|| expectations, and an inclination to consider what I'd experienced
|| using hand tools before I fired up the power tool.
|
| Another vote for hand tools. I'm noticing a pattern.

I like both powered and unpowered (and good software) tools. Using
hand tools provides some useful preparation for using power tools
well. The pattern /is/ there, but don't rush to a misinterpretation...

(I cringe at the idea of ripping 150 lineal feet of ipe, for example,
with even the best of hand saws)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

Larry Blanchard wrote:

All I can tell you is that Bills comment certainly doesn't apply to the
Woodcraft I work for. I went to his web page to find out where he was, but
couldn't (Bill, I kept getting "This can be managed under Documents - Site
Documents in the admin control panel." on the contact and about us pages).

Offhand, I can't think of a single class at our store that isn't hands on. In
the turning, carving, scroll saw, woodburning, cabinet making, etc. classes
the students each complete a project and take it home with them.


And I certainly didn't want to warn him off every Woodcraft class ...
just to let him know that he needs to be an alert consumer.

Thanks for the 'heads up' in re my web site. I hadn't noticed the "About
Us" and the "Contact" links at the bottom of the shopping cart page.
That will likely be fixed before you read this.

Drop back to http://nmwoodworks.com and click on the "Legal Matters"
button at the top of the page for the information you were seeking. The
Canton store is the closest to me.

For a router class, I had expected that there would be several routers,
not just one with a half-dozen guys gathered around for a glimpse. I
would not try to teach computers to six people if my computer was the
only one in the room.
--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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DAGS for the rec.woodworking FAQ. The URL used to be posted
periodically but I seem to recall just the mini version has been
posted recently. Might be helpful.

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:10:55 -0400, Corner of My Mind
wrote:

alexy wrote:
Turning is a whole 'nuther
game. Many of us woodwork for years without ever turning

Yes, I realize that now after reading another post. My brain was
thinking "woodworking" and not "woodturning" when I read that course name.

Fundamentals of woodworking sounds like
a good into course, although heavily power tool oriented.

I didn't see a "Fundamentals of Woodworking" course in the ones offered
by the local store. That would be good class though.

Someone else mentioned hand tools. I agree with a caveat: if you don't
learn to sharpen them properly, and get some instruction on use, you
will probably frustrate yourself, and have a harder time creating okay
results than you can with power tools. However, if you learn to use
them well, you will be much better at reading wood, which will make
you a better power tool woodworker. IMHO, you will do your best work
eventually by using both power and hand tools effectively.

Thanks. I'm going to seriously look into this progression of learning.

Bill in Detroit wrote in
:

*snip*


For a router class, I had expected that there would be several
routers, not just one with a half-dozen guys gathered around for a
glimpse. I would not try to teach computers to six people if my
computer was the only one in the room.

I've had professors that would prefer to teach computers with only one
computer in the room. They get nervous when they're talking about
something and someone's busy looking up Regular Expressions for his
Programming Languages course rather than the Java the prof is droneing on
about. *innocent look*

Of course, computers aren't very much like routers. One computer is
basically the same as the other, while routers have different shapes and
sizes and purposes. I'd expect to see a half dozen routers in a just
"here's what's available" demonstration.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Morris Dovey wrote:
Corner of My Mind wrote:
| Morris Dovey wrote:
|| mistake called for a "board stretcher" or an "unsaw" for recovery.
|
| How much do those specialized tools cost and what is a good brand
| to buy?

Board stretchers are generally made of a special alloy of Unobtanium,
and if you need to ask the price, then you're disqualified forever as
a purchaser.

I don't know much about unsaws - I think you' probably have to ask
this question in news:alt.trinaries.sorcery.woodworking. I recall
hearing a rumor about mounting a sawblade backward and chanting
"wasnu" as the stock is fed, but there is some danger of kickback (not
the stock - the unsaw.)

I heard they work best if primed with a piece of quarter sawn sapient
pearwood. But my stash is too low to take a chance, just in case it
reassembles all of the boards into a tree.
Joe

"RonB" wrote:


However, I did take a class in Intro Cabinetmaking at the local university
several years ago; and I consider it very benificial. The class was taught
by a very demanding instructor and they provided an excellent textbook. The
book is available today (30 years later) - "Cabinetmaking and Millwork -
Feirer". My book is technically dated with regard to equipment, adhesives,
etc. However, it is an excellent source of "how-to" that will never be
obsolete. My version is over 900 pages. I have seen it, and a teaching
guide, in Amazon during recent years. Expect to pay for it - it is a
textbook. However Amazon usually have previous versions or used books at a
good price.

Feirer was one of the first woodworking books I got as well, though
not for a class. I like it as a reference, and it is very thorough.
However, it is more about the manufacturing side of woodworking than
the craft side, so while the principles and resource info is valid,
much of it is not applicable to the hobbyist. I'd suggest Tage Frid
Teaches Woodworking from FWW as a better text for learning woodworking
as most hobbyists do it.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Of course, computers aren't very much like routers. One computer is
basically the same as the other, while routers have different shapes and
sizes and purposes. I'd expect to see a half dozen routers in a just
"here's what's available" demonstration.

*Ahem* Gotta disagree with you there. g My two plunge and two
fixed-based routers do pretty much the same thing, spin a router bit. My
five active PCs differ more in purpose, capability and use than my routers.
Throw in my programmable PDA and three programmable calculators and the gap
is even wider. Here's a photo of my "3 HP trim router" laptop and my "table
mounted, hydraulic lift, laser aligned, water cooled, power fed, 4 HP
router" desktop. ;-)

http://www.markjerde.com/Photos/Mult...ev-Pixels.html

-- Mark

Lee Michaels wrote:
SNIP

I had a good high school shop experience. The teacher was a safety fanatic
and forced all of us to identify and know every part of each tool before we
could use them. We had to pass a written test for each tool. That kind of
stuff stays with you for a lifetime. He was a part of the the first special
forces in WW II.

SNIP


I require the same of every student in my classes. No student can use
any power machine until he/she can draw the tool from memory, label the
parts, and list the safety rules from the book. NO EXCEPTIONS!

I was called in by this new,young and inexperienced guidance counselor.
(I am in my 33rd year of teaching) She thought it was unfair that I
required this of the special ed kids in my classes. I told her I would
think about it. I returned to her office with a letter that I drafted
stating that since she knew more than I did on the subject that her
signature was proof that the student knew enough to use the tool safely,
and if there was an accident that she would assume all legal and
financial liability and that I would be held harmless (BTW, I knew that
this letter was meaningless in any legal way. As she read the letter
and I asked for her signature I saw her eyes get wide. I made my point,
and she got off my case.

Glen

On Apr 5, 9:06 am, Corner of My Mind wrote:
wrote:
1. Go to the public library and read the woodworking books. All of
them. Read first to get you exposed to the tools and different
methods of doing things.

I like to write on the margins and highlight passages in books so I'll
probably end of buying most books. Well, if I did get library books, I
guess I could photocopy the interesting pages and then write on those.

Read the books first to see if they are worth buying and
highlighting. Most books repeat the same things. There are only so
many ways to make mortises and tenons or rip boards or crosscut
boards. After reading 3-4 books you will likely get tired of reading
anymore. But press on anyway.



2. Best/only way to learn a hands on craft such as woodworking is to
do it. With some basic knowledge and ideas gained from reading the
books. Think of something you want to do, then read up on the
specific task you want to do.

Oh...I do that. I tend to research topics before doing them and one of
the reasons I decided to subscribe to this newsgroup.

3. Decide if you have the tools to do the job. Buy, borrow the right
tools to do the job. Or figure out an alternative way to do the job
with the tools you have. May have to reread up on the topic.

Is woodworking an expensive hobby in order to have a "complete" set of
tools needed? What would be a good budget? $1000, $2000, $5000, other?

I don't even want to suggest a budget. There is sort of a Catch 22
involved. The more skill you have, the fewer tools, the cheaper tools
you need. Your skill compensates. Less skill, the more tools you
need to insure your lines are cut straight. And the more you use the
tools, the more skill you acquire so you don't really need as many
tools.

I think a table saw is very important. It will allow you to complete
projects easier and faster than figuring out ways to do the job
without a table saw. And completing projects is important when
starting out because it gives you a sense of accomplishment. Table
saws range from $100 to thousands and thousands and thousands of
dollars. Hard to say which is right for you.

Read the various books that are aimed at the person starting in
woodworking for a hobby. They suggest tools. Usually OK but
affordable tools. You can look them up online to see what the budget
suggested by the books is.




4. Do the job. Only way to learn a craft such as woodworking is by
doing.

Yes. I imagine so. I just wanted some direction first from a teacher so
that I don't make a mistake I can't fix (like losing a finger).

If you use common sense when working with tools, and proper safety
gear, you usually have to work at injuring yourself. Not saying you
can't easily cut your fingers off. But if you think about what you
are doing, and use safety devices where appropriate, the chances are
less. The books cover the basics of using tools correctly to minimize
accidents.


I've taken several classes. A few hands on where I used the tools and
a few where I sat in the audience and watched a slide show or the
woodworker do the task in front of the group. Hands on were the
best. But even then you have to immediately follow up at home with
the same task to really learn the task or you forget it too quickly
after the teacher shows you how. Watching others do it is enjoyable,
but without hands on experience or an immediate job to apply the
technique to, there really isn't any learning.

Learn woodworking by doing. After you learn some stuff on your own
then maybe take a hands on class for something specific. Maybe
reinforce what you learned on your own or to correct something you are
not doing right now. But the class will really just build on what you
already know. It won't get you started.

Sort of like learning a little first so that you can then ask an expert
more insightful questions.

Yes.


ok.

On Wednesday, April 4, 2007 at 10:57:42 AM UTC-4, Corner of My Mind wrote:
Hi,

I'm new to this newsgroup...been lurking for a week.

I live in Broward County, Florida, US and am interested in picking up
woodworking as a hobby and to do home improvements like built-ins or
trim work. The time I have available are night and weekends.

Last time I worked with wood was in high school (late 1980s) and I
remember I wasn't very good.

I'm trying to think of different options available for me to learn.
* Reading:
* This newgroup
* Searching google
* Books
* Hands-on:
* Community College Class? (I'll have to search and see if this is
available in my area)
* Volunteering for FREE with a local woodworking business. May not
make sense since they are probably on open the same hours I'm at work.
* Find a new friend? I don't know anyone in the area that does
woodworking. (I wonder if there are any clubs in the area that people
meet physically instead of online.)

I really believe I would learn best by seeing someone do something, with
me helping, and later doing it all by myself.

Any other ideas?

Who taught you? Your dad? friend? some other way?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

There is a new woodworking school in Southwest Ranches.
www.southfloridawoodworkingschool.com

On 10/9/2017 8:50 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 4, 2007 at 10:57:42 AM UTC-4, Corner of My Mind wrote:
Hi,

I'm new to this newsgroup...been lurking for a week.

I live in Broward County, Florida, US and am interested in picking up
woodworking as a hobby and to do home improvements like built-ins or
trim work. The time I have available are night and weekends.

Last time I worked with wood was in high school (late 1980s) and I
remember I wasn't very good.

I'm trying to think of different options available for me to learn.
* Reading:
* This newgroup
* Searching google
* Books
* Hands-on:
* Community College Class? (I'll have to search and see if this is
available in my area)
* Volunteering for FREE with a local woodworking business. May not
make sense since they are probably on open the same hours I'm at work.
* Find a new friend? I don't know anyone in the area that does
woodworking. (I wonder if there are any clubs in the area that people
meet physically instead of online.)

I really believe I would learn best by seeing someone do something, with
me helping, and later doing it all by myself.

Any other ideas?

Who taught you? Your dad? friend? some other way?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

There is a new woodworking school in Southwest Ranches.
www.southfloridawoodworkingschool.com

10 year old post.

On Wednesday, April 4, 2007 at 6:58:31 PM UTC-4, Larry Blanchard wrote:
Corner of My Mind wrote:

Hi,

I'm new to this newsgroup...been lurking for a week.

I live in Broward County, Florida, US and am interested in picking up
woodworking as a hobby and to do home improvements like built-ins or
trim work. The time I have available are night and weekends.


Look and see if there's a Woodcraft store somewhere in the vicinity. I work
at one (on the other side of the country) and we have various classes every
weekend and on many weekdays and evenings.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

There is a new woodworking school in Southwest Ranches.
www.southfloridawoodworkingschool.com

On Wednesday, April 4, 2007 at 11:47:20 AM UTC-4, Morris Dovey wrote:
Corner of My Mind wrote:

| I live in Broward County, Florida, US and am interested in picking
| up woodworking as a hobby and to do home improvements like
| built-ins or trim work. The time I have available are night and
| weekends.
|
| Last time I worked with wood was in high school (late 1980s) and I
| remember I wasn't very good.
|
| I'm trying to think of different options available for me to learn.
| * Reading:
| * This newgroup

This is a good place to ask questions. Many of the people posting have
links to their web sites in their sigs, and you can find answers to
questions you'd never think to ask by browsing them.

Keep an eye on news:alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking to see what
people are working on (or have just finished working on).

There's a home repair newsgroup that might be helpful for some of what
you're interested in.

| * Searching google

STFW is always a good idea. Sometimes an image search turns up what
you might have difficulty finding with a site search.

| * Books

Of course. Browse your library as well as the web.

| * Hands-on:
| * Community College Class? (I'll have to search and see if this is
| available in my area)

Don't forget to check for high school adult ed programs.

| * Volunteering for FREE with a local woodworking business. May
| not make sense since they are probably on open the same hours I'm
| at work.

Somehow I suspect that you won't be received with much enthusiasm,
BICBW.

| * Find a new friend? I don't know anyone in the area
| that does woodworking. (I wonder if there are any clubs in the
| area that people meet physically instead of online.)

Unless you already have too many friends, this is a great idea. Keep
your ears peeled for the sound of woodworking equipment coming from
garages in your neighborhood on Saturday afternoons. Avoid wasting
peoples' time, but don't be bashful about asking if they'd be willing
to answer future questions.

| I really believe I would learn best by seeing someone do something,
| with me helping, and later doing it all by myself.

Ok - but don't be afraid to learn the safety rules for the tool
'something' takes and then giving it a try on your own.

| Any other ideas?

I found it helpful to learn to work with hand tools before I bought
the power tool to do the job faster. It wastes less wood and perepares
you to use the power tool more safely.

| Who taught you? Your dad? friend? some other way?

Mostly I learned by making mistakes - but that was before the advent
of usenet and on-line sharing of experience and advice. There's a lot
to be said for making mistakes and spending the time to figure out
/why/ it was a mistake. Just don't make mistakes that cause bodily
damage.

HTH

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

There is a new woodworking school in Southwest Ranches.
www.southfloridawoodworkingschool.com

On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 08:52:11 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/9/2017 8:50 AM, wrote:


There is a new woodworking school in Southwest Ranches.
snip of url

10 year old post.

But he gets to advertise his wood working classes three times.

On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 06:56:44 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, April 4, 2007 at 11:47:20 AM UTC-4, Morris Dovey wrote:
Corner of My Mind wrote:

| I live in Broward County, Florida, US and am interested in picking
| up woodworking as a hobby and to do home improvements like
| built-ins or trim work. The time I have available are night and
| weekends.
|
| Last time I worked with wood was in high school (late 1980s) and I
| remember I wasn't very good.
|
| I'm trying to think of different options available for me to learn.
| * Reading:
| * This newgroup

This is a good place to ask questions. Many of the people posting have
links to their web sites in their sigs, and you can find answers to
questions you'd never think to ask by browsing them.

Keep an eye on news:alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking to see what
people are working on (or have just finished working on).

There's a home repair newsgroup that might be helpful for some of what
you're interested in.

| * Searching google

STFW is always a good idea. Sometimes an image search turns up what
you might have difficulty finding with a site search.

| * Books

Of course. Browse your library as well as the web.

| * Hands-on:
| * Community College Class? (I'll have to search and see if this is
| available in my area)

Don't forget to check for high school adult ed programs.

| * Volunteering for FREE with a local woodworking business. May
| not make sense since they are probably on open the same hours I'm
| at work.

Somehow I suspect that you won't be received with much enthusiasm,
BICBW.

| * Find a new friend? I don't know anyone in the area
| that does woodworking. (I wonder if there are any clubs in the
| area that people meet physically instead of online.)

Unless you already have too many friends, this is a great idea. Keep
your ears peeled for the sound of woodworking equipment coming from
garages in your neighborhood on Saturday afternoons. Avoid wasting
peoples' time, but don't be bashful about asking if they'd be willing
to answer future questions.

| I really believe I would learn best by seeing someone do something,
| with me helping, and later doing it all by myself.

Ok - but don't be afraid to learn the safety rules for the tool
'something' takes and then giving it a try on your own.

| Any other ideas?

I found it helpful to learn to work with hand tools before I bought
the power tool to do the job faster. It wastes less wood and perepares
you to use the power tool more safely.

| Who taught you? Your dad? friend? some other way?

Mostly I learned by making mistakes - but that was before the advent
of usenet and on-line sharing of experience and advice. There's a lot
to be said for making mistakes and spending the time to figure out
/why/ it was a mistake. Just don't make mistakes that cause bodily
damage.

HTH

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html


Now THERE is a name I have not seen in a while. I do miss his posts. His
sawhorse plans are still up. He shared a lot of good info with the group. I
have the pieces cut out for a pair of his sawhorses in my shop in Tennessee, but
ran out of screws and time to assemble them before I had to come back to
Houston.

http://www.iedu.com/ww/

Regards,
Roy