Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new
countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen
cabinets.

The kitchen cabinets were real ugly - 70's looking with huge knots.
We bought some alkyd gloss Benjamin Moore paint and have been painting
the cabinets with some natural bristle Purdy brushes but we can't seem
to get a smooth finish. We had originally cleaned them with TSP,
applied some oil-based Bullseye Primer, sanded, put on a coat of BM,
sanded, and another coat of BM. Unfortunately you can still see the
brush strokes. It looks good if you stand a foot away but if you look
closely you can easily see the brush strokes. So, we decided to use
foam rollers. We tried three different kinds from the local paint
store and purposely asked for contractor grade foam rollers.
Unfortunately these all leave a slight orange peel look. So now we
are considering spraying.

My question is:

1) What are we doing wrong vis a vis brushing and rolling. What are
some good tips to get a glass finish?

2) If we did want to spray, should we go HVLP with turbine, gravity
fed, or what? I called all the local rent a centers in a 60 mile
radius and no one rents the systems. I'd be buying one and do not want
to spend more than $500; I'm even think of getting some touchup
gravity fed gun from Lowe's or something.

Any ideas - all are appreciated!

  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

Also, was it a bad decision to use a $25 Purdy brush made for alkyd
paint instead of going with a china bristle brush?

Should I have thinned the paint and would this help if I did thin it?

I really expected the BM paint to self-level but... so any ideas would
be helpful!

  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

Also, was it a bad decision to use a $25 Purdy brush made for alkyd
paint instead of going with a china bristle brush?

Should I have thinned the paint and would this help if I did thin it?

I really expected the BM paint to self-level but... so any ideas would
be helpful!

  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,035
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets


"GG.and.UN." wrote in message
oups.com...
We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new
countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen
cabinets.

The kitchen cabinets were real ugly - 70's looking with huge knots.
We bought some alkyd gloss Benjamin Moore paint and have been painting
the cabinets with some natural bristle Purdy brushes but we can't seem
to get a smooth finish. We had originally cleaned them with TSP,
applied some oil-based Bullseye Primer, sanded, put on a coat of BM,
sanded, and another coat of BM. Unfortunately you can still see the
brush strokes. It looks good if you stand a foot away but if you look
closely you can easily see the brush strokes. So, we decided to use
foam rollers. We tried three different kinds from the local paint
store and purposely asked for contractor grade foam rollers.
Unfortunately these all leave a slight orange peel look. So now we
are considering spraying.



Assuming the cabinets are smooth to begin with I have had great luck with an
almost sprayed finish look using the small 1" diameter closed cell foam
rollers when painting with oil based paints.

You have a great brush but a brush typically works better on surfaces that
are not smooth when painting with oil based paints.


  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

Thanks for your response, I appreciate it. The smallest foam brush
roller I could find around here were 4", a 1" would have been
marvelous and I'll have to check online to see if I can order some.
What do you mean by closed cell - does that mean that the foam doesn't
have the little holes all over that leave the orange peel finish?



  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

It's actually pretty hard to find 1" rollers online...

What are the thoughts on a mohair or lambswool roller?

  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,035
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets


"GG.and.UN." wrote in message
oups.com...
It's actually pretty hard to find 1" rollers online...

What are the thoughts on a mohair or lambswool roller?


No, don't use a hair type roller.

Home Depot and Lowe's stock the 4" x 1" rollers. They are white in color.
There are also the yellow ones that are very porous. Stay from them for
this job.

And, yes the foam is not real porous like typical foam rubber. Not much
paint soaks into them and the paint goes a long way. Be careful not to over
load the roller until you get the feel.


Look here

http://www.quali-techmfg.com/Pages/rf.html


  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

No, don't use a hair type roller.

Home Depot and Lowe's stock the 4" x 1" rollers. They are white in color.
There are also the yellow ones that are very porous. Stay from them for
this job.

And, yes the foam is not real porous like typical foam rubber. Not much
paint soaks into them and the paint goes a long way. Be careful not to over
load the roller until you get the feel.

Look here

http://www.quali-techmfg.com/Pages/rf.html



So by 1" roller you meant 1" diameter right? I thought you meant 1"
length which would be great for painting the structure of the
cabinets. I did use some 4" Premium Foam Whizz foam rollers that
worked OK but still leave a slight texture. I also tried a 7" Wooster
pro tiz 3/16" yellow foam roller that did exactly what you said - very
porous and they left a ton of bubbles. I had tried a candy stripe hair-
type roller too and it worked better than the Wooster but not as good
as the Whizz. I'll have to look for the white ones. Any other
recommendations or specifics as I have to drive an hour to get to a
Lowes or Home Depot. Thanks very much for your help!

  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

To add, I've been reading about those hotdog rollers recently and that
looks like what you recommended; they carry that exact brand at Lowe's
or Home Depot?

  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets


"GG.and.UN." wrote in message
oups.com...
We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new
countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen
cabinets.


Our Benjamin Moore dealer likes to tell us that BM [Satin Finish]
Impervo doesn't require additives but we often amend it anyway with a
product called Penetrol to help level the paint. It only takes a capful or
two per quart. Read the label directions if you opt to use it.
I'm not sure that the Bullseye Primer was your best choice either. Is
that a pigmented shellac like KILZ or Zinser?
A final question: Have you removed the doors and laid them flat for
painting? I've found that it always produces better leveling. Don't roll
and roll and roll either. The more you work the paint the more likely you
are to leave brush marks.
Leon is on the money with the hotdog style rollers, we've had good
success rolling slab doors and cabinet doors with them.
Still, nothing beats a spray finish in my book.

--
NuWave Dave in Houston




  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

On Feb 19, 6:26 pm, "NuWaveDave" wrote:
"GG.and.UN." wrote in message

oups.com...

We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new
countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen
cabinets.


Our Benjamin Moore dealer likes to tell us that BM [Satin Finish]
Impervo doesn't require additives but we often amend it anyway with a
product called Penetrol to help level the paint. It only takes a capful or
two per quart. Read the label directions if you opt to use it.
I'm not sure that the Bullseye Primer was your best choice either. Is
that a pigmented shellac like KILZ or Zinser?
A final question: Have you removed the doors and laid them flat for
painting? I've found that it always produces better leveling. Don't roll
and roll and roll either. The more you work the paint the more likely you
are to leave brush marks.
Leon is on the money with the hotdog style rollers, we've had good
success rolling slab doors and cabinet doors with them.
Still, nothing beats a spray finish in my book.

--
NuWave Dave in Houston


Thanks for your reply Dave, very informative. I've been thinking of
using that exact same product to thin the pait and I'll pick it up
when I go to Home Depot. I'm pretty sure that Bullseye is a Zinser
product; so yes I think. Unfortunately I think your right about it
being inferior and I should have went with a BM primer but it's too
late for that. Zinser was recommended by the local DIY store and by
Home Depot; though I usually don't trust too many recommendations from
Home Depot. I'll pick up some of those hotdog rollers too. Oh, and
yes we do have them taken down and laid flat.

  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,035
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets


"GG.and.UN." wrote in message
oups.com...
To add, I've been reading about those hotdog rollers recently and that
looks like what you recommended; they carry that exact brand at Lowe's
or Home Depot?


IIRC Home Depot has the brand. A local paint or hardware store may even
have the rollers.


  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets


"GG.and.UN." wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for your reply Dave, very informative. I've been thinking of
using that exact same product to thin the paint and I'll pick it up
when I go to Home Depot. I'm pretty sure that Bullseye is a Zinser
product; so yes I think. Unfortunately I think your right about it
being inferior and I should have went with a BM primer but it's too
late for that. Zinser was recommended by the local DIY store and by
Home Depot; though I usually don't trust too many recommendations from
Home Depot. I'll pick up some of those hotdog rollers too. Oh, and
yes we do have them taken down and laid flat.

You may be looking at stripping, re-sanding, re-priming and re-rolling.
Try sanding the stroke marks and dimples first then try re-rolling your
finish coat.
I'm certain Home Depot sells the hotdog rollers, we buy them in the
six-pack but your Ben Moore dealer should also have the square-ended six
inch rollers and we've even used 9 inch foam rollers on slab interior doors.
Just try to lay down a good coat in, maybe, two or three passes and then
resist the temptation to roll it out and roll it out. It will look dimpled
initially but level out by the time it dries to the touch. Reload your
roller often.
Careful with the Penetrol; too much will flatten the sheen of the
enamel.
There are a lot of reasons to dislike Home Depot and their paint
selection is reason no. 2 on my list.
--
Dave in Houston



  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 833
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

GG.and.UN. wrote:
We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new
countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen
cabinets.

The kitchen cabinets were real ugly - 70's looking with huge knots.
We bought some alkyd gloss Benjamin Moore paint and have been
painting the cabinets with some natural bristle Purdy brushes but
we can't seem to get a smooth finish. We had originally cleaned
them with TSP, applied some oil-based Bullseye Primer, sanded, put
on a coat of BM, sanded, and another coat of BM. Unfortunately you
can still see the brush strokes. It looks good if you stand a foot
away but if you look closely you can easily see the brush strokes.
So, we decided to use foam rollers. We tried three different kinds
from the local paint store and purposely asked for contractor grade
foam rollers. Unfortunately these all leave a slight orange peel
look. So now we are considering spraying.

My question is:

1) What are we doing wrong vis a vis brushing and rolling. What are
some good tips to get a glass finish?

2) If we did want to spray, should we go HVLP with turbine, gravity
fed, or what? I called all the local rent a centers in a 60 mile
radius and no one rents the systems. I'd be buying one and do not
want to spend more than $500; I'm even think of getting some touchup
gravity fed gun from Lowe's or something.

Any ideas - all are appreciated!


1. Nothing will beat spraying

2. No paint surface will be smoother than the underlying surface. It
must be dead flat and smooth. It may be that the brush marks you are
seeing are being telegraphed from a less than properly sanded
undercoat.

3. Even starting with a perfect surface, a dried paint film will
probably be less than perfect due to dust, uneven application, etc.

4. Oil paint is NOT dry when it feels dry. It takes several days -
even weeks - to thoroughly dry and during that period the paint film
continues to shrink. If it displays minor brush marks after it no
longer feels tacky it may not after the paint is totally dry.

5. Good results can be achieved either with rollers or brushes. Or
both. I used to paint my sizeable ketch topsides by rolling on enamel
in an area maybe 3-4' wide from waterline to gunnel - around 25
sq.ft.; I'd then smooth & feather that with a 4" brush then "tip off"
until the paint started to drag (set up) and then roll the next strip.

6. Paints from different manufacturers (or even the same manufacturer)
behave differently and are also affected by temperature/humidity.
Various additives, retarders and thinners can be used to control
leveling and set up time. Marine enamels are about the best around.
They are expensive.

7. Excellent colored surfaces are made the same way excellent clear
ones are...apply material to a good surface, let dry, rub down with
ever finer abrasives, polish. Lots of work. An easier though less
perfect way is to apply material to a good surface, let dry
completely, sand flat and smooth and then apply one more "shine" coat.
That shine coat is a thinned down one applied as lightly and evenly as
possible.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico



  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
EXT EXT is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,661
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

I painted our old kitchen cabinets over 20 years ago before foam rollers
came into use. What I used was a small diameter x 4" long foam brush. I
learned how to get a glass smooth finish with them and using a small natural
bristle brush for tight corners where the roller couldn't fit.

To get the glass smooth finish took a few steps to avoid lint in the paint.
1 - Scrub the new roller with a stiff bristle brush.
2 - Vacuum the scrubbed brush to remove the lint.
3 - Put on the first coat with the roller, do not toss or clean the roller
but roll it reasonably dry on newspaper then seal in aluminum foil for
storage.
4 - Do not delay more than 24 hours or the roller will start drying, sand
lightly to remove any lint that the first coat of paint picked up, vacuum
clean, then use the roller again, it will be 99.9% lint free.
5 - This worked perfectly on semi-gloss oil paint, I still have the old
cabinets, only now they are in my workshop as storage cabinets.

"Leon" wrote in message
t...

"GG.and.UN." wrote in message
oups.com...
It's actually pretty hard to find 1" rollers online...

What are the thoughts on a mohair or lambswool roller?


No, don't use a hair type roller.

Home Depot and Lowe's stock the 4" x 1" rollers. They are white in
color. There are also the yellow ones that are very porous. Stay from
them for this job.

And, yes the foam is not real porous like typical foam rubber. Not much
paint soaks into them and the paint goes a long way. Be careful not to
over load the roller until you get the feel.


Look here

http://www.quali-techmfg.com/Pages/rf.html





  #16   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,123
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

On Feb 19, 4:09 pm, "GG.and.UN." wrote:
We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new
countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen
cabinets.

The kitchen cabinets were real ugly - 70's looking with huge knots.


Two coats of shellac, cut 2 lb. Spackle to fill the tearout. Those
knots are history.

We bought some alkyd gloss Benjamin Moore paint and have been painting
the cabinets with some natural bristle Purdy brushes but we can't seem
to get a smooth finish. We had originally cleaned them with TSP,
applied some oil-based Bullseye Primer, sanded,


What was the open (workable) time for that primer? I just did
a bookcase with Benny Moore Impervo satin (will definitely
use again). Burgundy, so needed a dark primer. Rustoleum
rusty metal (!) gave me plenty of time to lay the paint smooth
with no need to sand. Dead opaque earth brown; one coat saved
me three coats of Impervo.

put on a coat of BM,
sanded, and another coat of BM. Unfortunately you can still see the
brush strokes. It looks good if you stand a foot away but if you look
closely you can easily see the brush strokes. So, we decided to use
foam rollers. We tried three different kinds from the local paint
store and purposely asked for contractor grade foam rollers.
Unfortunately these all leave a slight orange peel look. So now we
are considering spraying.

My question is:

1) What are we doing wrong vis a vis brushing and rolling. What are
some good tips to get a glass finish?

2) If we did want to spray, should we go HVLP with turbine, gravity
fed, or what? I called all the local rent a centers in a 60 mile
radius and no one rents the systems. I'd be buying one and do not want
to spend more than $500; I'm even think of getting some touchup
gravity fed gun from Lowe's or something.

Any ideas - all are appreciated!


Old, but well-cared for 2" Linzer black China bristle. Penetrol,
25%.
Went on like glass. One visitor thought I used Formica.



  #17   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

On Feb 20, 1:54 pm, "Father Haskell" wrote:
On Feb 19, 4:09 pm, "GG.and.UN." wrote:

We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new
countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen
cabinets.


The kitchen cabinets were real ugly - 70's looking with huge knots.


Two coats of shellac, cut 2 lb. Spackle to fill the tearout. Those
knots are history.

We bought some alkyd gloss Benjamin Moore paint and have been painting
the cabinets with some natural bristle Purdy brushes but we can't seem
to get a smooth finish. We had originally cleaned them with TSP,
applied some oil-based Bullseye Primer, sanded,


What was the open (workable) time for that primer? I just did
a bookcase with Benny Moore Impervo satin (will definitely
use again). Burgundy, so needed a dark primer. Rustoleum
rusty metal (!) gave me plenty of time to lay the paint smooth
with no need to sand. Dead opaque earth brown; one coat saved
me three coats of Impervo.





put on a coat of BM,
sanded, and another coat of BM. Unfortunately you can still see the
brush strokes. It looks good if you stand a foot away but if you look
closely you can easily see the brush strokes. So, we decided to use
foam rollers. We tried three different kinds from the local paint
store and purposely asked for contractor grade foam rollers.
Unfortunately these all leave a slight orange peel look. So now we
are considering spraying.


My question is:


1) What are we doing wrong vis a vis brushing and rolling. What are
some good tips to get a glass finish?


2) If we did want to spray, should we go HVLP with turbine, gravity
fed, or what? I called all the local rent a centers in a 60 mile
radius and no one rents the systems. I'd be buying one and do not want
to spend more than $500; I'm even think of getting some touchup
gravity fed gun from Lowe's or something.


Any ideas - all are appreciated!


If you decide that you can't get the finish quality you want by
brushing/rolling take a look at pigmented lacquer. Getting the tint
that you want might be a little problematic but you can easily spray a
flawless finish.


  #18   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,123
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

On Feb 20, 4:01 pm, "Lincoln Terns" wrote:
On Feb 20, 1:54 pm, "Father Haskell" wrote:



On Feb 19, 4:09 pm, "GG.and.UN." wrote:


We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new
countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen
cabinets.


The kitchen cabinets were real ugly - 70's looking with huge knots.


Two coats of shellac, cut 2 lb. Spackle to fill the tearout. Those
knots are history.


We bought some alkyd gloss Benjamin Moore paint and have been painting
the cabinets with some natural bristle Purdy brushes but we can't seem
to get a smooth finish. We had originally cleaned them with TSP,
applied some oil-based Bullseye Primer, sanded,


What was the open (workable) time for that primer? I just did
a bookcase with Benny Moore Impervo satin (will definitely
use again). Burgundy, so needed a dark primer. Rustoleum
rusty metal (!) gave me plenty of time to lay the paint smooth
with no need to sand. Dead opaque earth brown; one coat saved
me three coats of Impervo.


put on a coat of BM,
sanded, and another coat of BM. Unfortunately you can still see the
brush strokes. It looks good if you stand a foot away but if you look
closely you can easily see the brush strokes. So, we decided to use
foam rollers. We tried three different kinds from the local paint
store and purposely asked for contractor grade foam rollers.
Unfortunately these all leave a slight orange peel look. So now we
are considering spraying.


My question is:


1) What are we doing wrong vis a vis brushing and rolling. What are
some good tips to get a glass finish?


2) If we did want to spray, should we go HVLP with turbine, gravity
fed, or what? I called all the local rent a centers in a 60 mile
radius and no one rents the systems. I'd be buying one and do not want
to spend more than $500; I'm even think of getting some touchup
gravity fed gun from Lowe's or something.


Any ideas - all are appreciated!


If you decide that you can't get the finish quality you want by
brushing/rolling take a look at pigmented lacquer. Getting the tint
that you want might be a little problematic but you can easily spray a
flawless finish.


Spray can or spray gun? Easy way to a pianolike finish, but
expensive as hell to setup for. That's one job I'd send out, not
for lack of ability.

  #19   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

Well I stopped out to Home Depot and picked up some of the hotdog
covers and some Penetrol and will give it a go soon. I'm going to
resand everything and try again utilizing those two products.
Hopefully I'll get good results! Too bad they don't make the hotdog
rollers in 1" or 2" lengths for doing the framework of the cabinets.
It's a pain to use the 4" rollers because of overroll (I hope that's
the roller's version of overspray).

I did do a test roll with the hotdog roller and some Penetrol mixed
with the paint and it seems like the paint takes much longer to dry.
Does anyone recommend using some Japan Drier as well to counteract
this or is it a desirable effect since the paint will have more time
to level? The downfall to this longer drying time is dust and small
hair particles...

Thanks for all the help!

  #20   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,123
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

On Feb 20, 7:29 pm, "GG.and.UN." wrote:
Well I stopped out to Home Depot and picked up some of the hotdog
covers and some Penetrol and will give it a go soon. I'm going to
resand everything and try again utilizing those two products.
Hopefully I'll get good results! Too bad they don't make the hotdog
rollers in 1" or 2" lengths for doing the framework of the cabinets.
It's a pain to use the 4" rollers because of overroll (I hope that's
the roller's version of overspray).

I did do a test roll with the hotdog roller and some Penetrol mixed
with the paint and it seems like the paint takes much longer to dry.
Does anyone recommend using some Japan Drier as well to counteract
this or is it a desirable effect since the paint will have more time
to level? The downfall to this longer drying time is dust and small
hair particles...

Thanks for all the help!


Don't worry about dry time. Worry about cure.

FWIW, how heavy did you apply the test coat?



  #21   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

Go to your local Sherwin Williams store and buy either a foam roller
cover or a mohair cover. They'll know what your looking for. Also, to
help with leveling, buy some Penetrol. Add about 1/2 cup - 1 cup per
gallon. This will help tremendously with brush marks. If you still
have problems, it could be the primer underneath. It you don't start
off with a smooth surface, the best paint in the world cannot fix it.


  #22   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

OK, I need a group hug so bear with me:

I feel like we've spent a lot of time on this already and haven't
received very good results.

I've been laying out my solutions and have come to these conclusions:

1) Tomorrow I sand everything down and redo everything using the
hotdog roller and the BM with Penetrol. The thing is I can't roll
everything and will have to brush in certain areas and I worry about
the inconsistency.

2) Tomorrow I sand everything down and buy the darkest ebony stain I
can find and stain all the wood. Hopefully the wood will be dark
enough that all the ugly grain of the (birch?) wood will be hidden.
What's the feasibility of this?


..

  #23   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,575
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

GG.and.UN. wrote:

Thanks for your response, I appreciate it. The smallest foam brush
roller I could find around here were 4", a 1" would have been
marvelous and I'll have to check online to see if I can order some.
What do you mean by closed cell - does that mean that the foam doesn't
have the little holes all over that leave the orange peel finish?

1" diameter. I get much better results with small foam rollers than
with brushes. BM is my brand of paint, but gloss enamel is a bear. I
tried it a couple of times, and found it dried too fast. I think it is
also too brittle. Should probably be thinned, per the label on your
paint.

It won't sand well unless totally cured. Beyond that, I would be very
tempted to try a pro who can spray the doors. Trying for a glassy
finish on knotty old wood is tough. If you want glassy smoothe, but not
as high gloss, then semi might work a good deal better for you.

My one experience with spraying was using the little disposable spray
kits available at box stores and paint stores. I used BM semi with them
to do louvered doors. Spray pattern is very small, so they aren't
suitable for larger surfaces. I used Penetrol to thin the paint, kept a
small foam brush wrung out with mineral spririts to smoothe out drips
and sags. Went very well.
  #24   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 833
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

GG.and.UN. wrote:
OK, I need a group hug so bear with me:

I feel like we've spent a lot of time on this already and haven't
received very good results.

I've been laying out my solutions and have come to these
conclusions:


2) Tomorrow I sand everything down and buy the darkest ebony stain I
can find and stain all the wood. Hopefully the wood will be dark
enough that all the ugly grain of the (birch?) wood will be hidden.
What's the feasibility of this?


Zero.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico



  #25   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

Well, thanks for your recommendations.

What I decided to do is what Norminn slightly hit upon: use semi-
gloss.

So I'm going to go out and buy some more paint but I don't feel like
driving an hour to get to a BM dealer so I'm goin g to try a Sherwin
Williams paint; maybe the ProClassic line. What is their top product
concerning alkyd paints that are tintable?



  #26   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,035
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets


"GG.and.UN." wrote in message
oups.com...
OK, I need a group hug so bear with me:

I feel like we've spent a lot of time on this already and haven't
received very good results.

I've been laying out my solutions and have come to these conclusions:

1) Tomorrow I sand everything down and redo everything using the
hotdog roller and the BM with Penetrol. The thing is I can't roll
everything and will have to brush in certain areas and I worry about
the inconsistency.



With a 4 inch 1" diameter roller you will be surprised how close you can get
to corners and into tight spots. I typically use a brush when doing
cabinets to get small cramped areas. The foam roller will also do trim
pretty easily.


  #27   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,035
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets


"GG.and.UN." wrote in message
ups.com...
Well I stopped out to Home Depot and picked up some of the hotdog
covers and some Penetrol and will give it a go soon. I'm going to
resand everything and try again utilizing those two products.
Hopefully I'll get good results! Too bad they don't make the hotdog
rollers in 1" or 2" lengths for doing the framework of the cabinets.
It's a pain to use the 4" rollers because of overroll (I hope that's
the roller's version of overspray).

I did do a test roll with the hotdog roller and some Penetrol mixed
with the paint and it seems like the paint takes much longer to dry.
Does anyone recommend using some Japan Drier as well to counteract
this or is it a desirable effect since the paint will have more time
to level? The downfall to this longer drying time is dust and small
hair particles...

Thanks for all the help!



If I use an additive with an oil based paint, I only add thinner.
Regardless, under good conditions the oil based paints need to dry over
night for you to be able to touch the surface.


  #28   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

We are not terribly opposed to either satin or semi-gloss for the
cabinets but I'd like to know which would be better at hiding the
brush strokes better. The high gloss we had was as I said
horrendously difficult to work with in terms of hiding brush strokes.
I also read the flat is very difficult as well. Since both satin and
semi-gloss are in the middle there, are they about the same or is one
generally better than the other in terms of being the easiest to work
with to attain smooth finish?

  #29   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

I have one more pressing question:

I should have everything sanded down to bare wood in a few hours, now
what are the recommendations on priming? Should I still prime now
that it's bare wood? I used the oil-based Zinsser Bulls-Eye 1-2-3
before but that was over a TSP-washed poly gloss. I've read a lot of
places that it's not absolutely necessary to prime if using a top-
quality paint. I went to the paint store and decided on some Sherwin-
Williams ProClassic Alkyd paint. If priming is still recommended, what
are some best of the best primers and what would be a kind I'd look
for in a Sherwin-Williams store? Thanks for all the help!

  #30   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 36
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

GG.and.UN. wrote:
I have one more pressing question:

I should have everything sanded down to bare wood in a few hours, now
what are the recommendations on priming? Should I still prime now
that it's bare wood? I used the oil-based Zinsser Bulls-Eye 1-2-3
before but that was over a TSP-washed poly gloss. I've read a lot of
places that it's not absolutely necessary to prime if using a top-
quality paint. I went to the paint store and decided on some Sherwin-
Williams ProClassic Alkyd paint. If priming is still recommended, what
are some best of the best primers and what would be a kind I'd look
for in a Sherwin-Williams store? Thanks for all the help!

Primer is usually applied over fresh bare wood. The idea is to seal
the wood grain and prevent it from soaking up too much paint or varnish.
If the wood soaks up the solvent too fast, the paint doesn't have time
to level before its dry. For old work, even sanded down to "bare
wood", I would expect the wood grain is still full of the old coating,
what ever it was, and therefor a prime coat isn't going to do much for
you.
The last time I did a good paint finish on kitchen cabinets, starting
from bare new wood, I did one coat of ordinary shellac, let dry over
night, sand it out with 220 grit in a pad sander. Then a coat of oil
based gloss enamel (trade name of "Larcaloid" or something like that).
Dry overnight so its hard enough to sand without clogging the sandpaper.
Then sand again. The sanding rubs down the high spots, and makes the
surface flatter. Wipe down with a tack rag to get all the sanding dust.
Apply a second coat of enamel. Let dry. Sand again. At this point my
cabinets looked good enough so I hung them, but you can do a third coat
and they will look better. The last sanding leaves a flattish finish.
A coat of Butcher's wax brings out a nice semi gloss look. I used a
good quality bristle sash brush to apply primer and enamel. Do the
best brush cleaning you can to keep the good quality in the brush for
the second coat.
Now aday's the paint stores are moving to all water based paint. The
water is getting better, and it might be good enough, but back then you
had to use oil based enamel to get a decent finish. A lot of "interior"
paint is good only for a flat finish on sheetrock. I've been told that
good water based gloss enamels exist but I haven't used one and I'm
still a little suspicious of anything that doesn't have oil in it.

David Starr



  #31   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,035
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets


"GG.and.UN." wrote in message
oups.com...
I have one more pressing question:

I should have everything sanded down to bare wood in a few hours, now
what are the recommendations on priming? Should I still prime now
that it's bare wood? I used the oil-based Zinsser Bulls-Eye 1-2-3
before but that was over a TSP-washed poly gloss. I've read a lot of
places that it's not absolutely necessary to prime if using a top-
quality paint. I went to the paint store and decided on some Sherwin-
Williams ProClassic Alkyd paint. If priming is still recommended, what
are some best of the best primers and what would be a kind I'd look
for in a Sherwin-Williams store? Thanks for all the help!


A primer is used to insure a good bond between the material and the paint.
Also, it can be used to smooth imperfections. Do a "very" light sanding
after the primer to knock down any dust speck bumps. Wipe off the dust and
apply the paint. Typically it is best to use the same brand primer as the
paint that you will be using.

The SW top of the line Alkyd is what I used to paint the trim and flat slab
doors in my house. I did not use any additives at all. I would prime if
going on top of bare wood. The wood will soak up some paint and better it
be your first coat of the less expensive primer than the top coat material.
If going over existing paint I prep the old surface by wiping down with
Liquid Sander and then going straight from there with the final top coat.

With that paint I had great results painting the slab doors with the 4"
small cell roller where the door hung. As another poster indicated, get the
paint on the door and don't over work it. When it has good coverage work
another area. Practice on the back side of a door until you get the feel.
It really is pretty simple. the trick is to not get too much paint on the
roller and create a mess.


  #32   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,035
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets


"GG.and.UN." wrote in message
ups.com...
We are not terribly opposed to either satin or semi-gloss for the
cabinets but I'd like to know which would be better at hiding the
brush strokes better. The high gloss we had was as I said
horrendously difficult to work with in terms of hiding brush strokes.
I also read the flat is very difficult as well. Since both satin and
semi-gloss are in the middle there, are they about the same or is one
generally better than the other in terms of being the easiest to work
with to attain smooth finish?


Usually the shinier the surface the more the imperfections will show up.
With stain, the surface has to almost be perfect and evenly sanded with the
same grit over the entire surface. If you do not sand the entire surface
with the same grit you will have areas that absorb more stain than the
smoother areas.
Flat normally hides the most problems but tends to absorb stains and dirt
much more easily. In a kitchen or bathroom I recommend a glossier finish
when painting.

Be sure to work in the Ideal temperature and humidity conditions recommended
on the can of either paint or stain.


  #33   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 833
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

GG.and.UN. wrote:
I have one more pressing question:

I should have everything sanded down to bare wood in a few hours,
now what are the recommendations on priming? Should I still prime
now that it's bare wood?


Yes, of course! Putting enamel on bare wood is an exercise in
futility.

I repeat...
2. No paint surface will be smoother than the underlying surface. It
must be dead flat and smooth. It may be that the brush marks you are
seeing are being telegraphed from a less than properly sanded
undercoat.

I can't tell you which to use but you need one that builds well and
SANDS EASILY. It needs to build in order to achieve a layer thick
enough to sand perfectly flat and smooth. There are very few
household primers that will fit the bill. There are numerous suitable
ones available at auto paint supply houses.

Not trying to be unkind or uppity but you obviously have no experience
with what you are trying to do. Getting a flawless enamel paint job
is very difficult and my best suggestion would be for you to have it
professionally done.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico



  #34   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

Thanks for everyone's suggestions, I really appreciate it.

Don't worry about it dadiOH, I appreciate your comments as well.

I'm an avid DIY and I enjoy it. I'll always call a professional if
necessary and I am definitely not afraid to do so. They don't need to
be perfect, but I want to shoot for that. Also, I don't necessarily
ask a lot of questions because I am clueless - I just want opinions so
I can wage them all together and there is nothing wrong with that. A
man seeking counsel is wise to do so.

Also, I live in a town of only a few thousand and I called every
remodeling place within the vacinity and no one does alkyd spraying.

  #35   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,575
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

GG.and.UN. wrote:

Well I stopped out to Home Depot and picked up some of the hotdog
covers and some Penetrol and will give it a go soon. I'm going to
resand everything and try again utilizing those two products.
Hopefully I'll get good results! Too bad they don't make the hotdog
rollers in 1" or 2" lengths for doing the framework of the cabinets.
It's a pain to use the 4" rollers because of overroll (I hope that's
the roller's version of overspray).

I did do a test roll with the hotdog roller and some Penetrol mixed
with the paint and it seems like the paint takes much longer to dry.
Does anyone recommend using some Japan Drier as well to counteract
this or is it a desirable effect since the paint will have more time
to level? The downfall to this longer drying time is dust and small
hair particles...

Thanks for all the help!


If you add Penetrol per the label, drying time should not be an issue.
Get your work area real clean after sanding and before painting. If you
are getting noticeable amounts of "overroll", then perhaps your roller
is too loaded or you are pressing too hard. Keep a small foam brush,
wrung out in mineral spirits, to smoothe the overroll...very light touch.

In other posts, the question is asked whether to go with satin or semi.
For cabinets (or kitchen or bath walls), I think semi is easier to clean.

Shellac primers - I forget whether it is Bullseye or what - dry very
fast and are tough to brush out. They are really "overkill" for new
wood with no knots or bleed/stain problems. Ordinary primer of your
favorite paint brand should be fine.


  #36   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets

replying to Leon, Anthony wrote:
In the future you will have same day in home shipping from amazon with an
unlimited supply of obscure tools for any DIY project.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodwo...ts-366430-.htm


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kitchen cabinet spraying info todd Woodworking 3 June 19th 06 03:05 PM
Paint: Spraying vs. Rolling RevDon Home Repair 2 June 14th 06 04:14 AM
Kitchen Cabinets david lang UK diy 5 October 2nd 05 11:53 AM
Have a small kitchen 12L X 8W Want an Island (rolling) I need help! How big??? 24w"X 42l"? 28"X38? .HMFIC@1369 Woodworking 7 April 24th 05 03:53 AM
Kitchen cabinets Lynn Home Ownership 16 March 23rd 04 05:51 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:54 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"