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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new
countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen cabinets. The kitchen cabinets were real ugly - 70's looking with huge knots. We bought some alkyd gloss Benjamin Moore paint and have been painting the cabinets with some natural bristle Purdy brushes but we can't seem to get a smooth finish. We had originally cleaned them with TSP, applied some oil-based Bullseye Primer, sanded, put on a coat of BM, sanded, and another coat of BM. Unfortunately you can still see the brush strokes. It looks good if you stand a foot away but if you look closely you can easily see the brush strokes. So, we decided to use foam rollers. We tried three different kinds from the local paint store and purposely asked for contractor grade foam rollers. Unfortunately these all leave a slight orange peel look. So now we are considering spraying. My question is: 1) What are we doing wrong vis a vis brushing and rolling. What are some good tips to get a glass finish? 2) If we did want to spray, should we go HVLP with turbine, gravity fed, or what? I called all the local rent a centers in a 60 mile radius and no one rents the systems. I'd be buying one and do not want to spend more than $500; I'm even think of getting some touchup gravity fed gun from Lowe's or something. Any ideas - all are appreciated! |
#2
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
Also, was it a bad decision to use a $25 Purdy brush made for alkyd
paint instead of going with a china bristle brush? Should I have thinned the paint and would this help if I did thin it? I really expected the BM paint to self-level but... so any ideas would be helpful! |
#3
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
Also, was it a bad decision to use a $25 Purdy brush made for alkyd
paint instead of going with a china bristle brush? Should I have thinned the paint and would this help if I did thin it? I really expected the BM paint to self-level but... so any ideas would be helpful! |
#4
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
"GG.and.UN." wrote in message oups.com... We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen cabinets. The kitchen cabinets were real ugly - 70's looking with huge knots. We bought some alkyd gloss Benjamin Moore paint and have been painting the cabinets with some natural bristle Purdy brushes but we can't seem to get a smooth finish. We had originally cleaned them with TSP, applied some oil-based Bullseye Primer, sanded, put on a coat of BM, sanded, and another coat of BM. Unfortunately you can still see the brush strokes. It looks good if you stand a foot away but if you look closely you can easily see the brush strokes. So, we decided to use foam rollers. We tried three different kinds from the local paint store and purposely asked for contractor grade foam rollers. Unfortunately these all leave a slight orange peel look. So now we are considering spraying. Assuming the cabinets are smooth to begin with I have had great luck with an almost sprayed finish look using the small 1" diameter closed cell foam rollers when painting with oil based paints. You have a great brush but a brush typically works better on surfaces that are not smooth when painting with oil based paints. |
#5
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
Thanks for your response, I appreciate it. The smallest foam brush
roller I could find around here were 4", a 1" would have been marvelous and I'll have to check online to see if I can order some. What do you mean by closed cell - does that mean that the foam doesn't have the little holes all over that leave the orange peel finish? |
#6
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
It's actually pretty hard to find 1" rollers online...
What are the thoughts on a mohair or lambswool roller? |
#7
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
"GG.and.UN." wrote in message oups.com... It's actually pretty hard to find 1" rollers online... What are the thoughts on a mohair or lambswool roller? No, don't use a hair type roller. Home Depot and Lowe's stock the 4" x 1" rollers. They are white in color. There are also the yellow ones that are very porous. Stay from them for this job. And, yes the foam is not real porous like typical foam rubber. Not much paint soaks into them and the paint goes a long way. Be careful not to over load the roller until you get the feel. Look here http://www.quali-techmfg.com/Pages/rf.html |
#8
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
No, don't use a hair type roller.
Home Depot and Lowe's stock the 4" x 1" rollers. They are white in color. There are also the yellow ones that are very porous. Stay from them for this job. And, yes the foam is not real porous like typical foam rubber. Not much paint soaks into them and the paint goes a long way. Be careful not to over load the roller until you get the feel. Look here http://www.quali-techmfg.com/Pages/rf.html So by 1" roller you meant 1" diameter right? I thought you meant 1" length which would be great for painting the structure of the cabinets. I did use some 4" Premium Foam Whizz foam rollers that worked OK but still leave a slight texture. I also tried a 7" Wooster pro tiz 3/16" yellow foam roller that did exactly what you said - very porous and they left a ton of bubbles. I had tried a candy stripe hair- type roller too and it worked better than the Wooster but not as good as the Whizz. I'll have to look for the white ones. Any other recommendations or specifics as I have to drive an hour to get to a Lowes or Home Depot. Thanks very much for your help! |
#9
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
To add, I've been reading about those hotdog rollers recently and that
looks like what you recommended; they carry that exact brand at Lowe's or Home Depot? |
#10
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
"GG.and.UN." wrote in message oups.com... We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen cabinets. Our Benjamin Moore dealer likes to tell us that BM [Satin Finish] Impervo doesn't require additives but we often amend it anyway with a product called Penetrol to help level the paint. It only takes a capful or two per quart. Read the label directions if you opt to use it. I'm not sure that the Bullseye Primer was your best choice either. Is that a pigmented shellac like KILZ or Zinser? A final question: Have you removed the doors and laid them flat for painting? I've found that it always produces better leveling. Don't roll and roll and roll either. The more you work the paint the more likely you are to leave brush marks. Leon is on the money with the hotdog style rollers, we've had good success rolling slab doors and cabinet doors with them. Still, nothing beats a spray finish in my book. -- NuWave Dave in Houston |
#11
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
On Feb 19, 6:26 pm, "NuWaveDave" wrote:
"GG.and.UN." wrote in message oups.com... We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen cabinets. Our Benjamin Moore dealer likes to tell us that BM [Satin Finish] Impervo doesn't require additives but we often amend it anyway with a product called Penetrol to help level the paint. It only takes a capful or two per quart. Read the label directions if you opt to use it. I'm not sure that the Bullseye Primer was your best choice either. Is that a pigmented shellac like KILZ or Zinser? A final question: Have you removed the doors and laid them flat for painting? I've found that it always produces better leveling. Don't roll and roll and roll either. The more you work the paint the more likely you are to leave brush marks. Leon is on the money with the hotdog style rollers, we've had good success rolling slab doors and cabinet doors with them. Still, nothing beats a spray finish in my book. -- NuWave Dave in Houston Thanks for your reply Dave, very informative. I've been thinking of using that exact same product to thin the pait and I'll pick it up when I go to Home Depot. I'm pretty sure that Bullseye is a Zinser product; so yes I think. Unfortunately I think your right about it being inferior and I should have went with a BM primer but it's too late for that. Zinser was recommended by the local DIY store and by Home Depot; though I usually don't trust too many recommendations from Home Depot. I'll pick up some of those hotdog rollers too. Oh, and yes we do have them taken down and laid flat. |
#12
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
"GG.and.UN." wrote in message oups.com... To add, I've been reading about those hotdog rollers recently and that looks like what you recommended; they carry that exact brand at Lowe's or Home Depot? IIRC Home Depot has the brand. A local paint or hardware store may even have the rollers. |
#13
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
"GG.and.UN." wrote in message oups.com... Thanks for your reply Dave, very informative. I've been thinking of using that exact same product to thin the paint and I'll pick it up when I go to Home Depot. I'm pretty sure that Bullseye is a Zinser product; so yes I think. Unfortunately I think your right about it being inferior and I should have went with a BM primer but it's too late for that. Zinser was recommended by the local DIY store and by Home Depot; though I usually don't trust too many recommendations from Home Depot. I'll pick up some of those hotdog rollers too. Oh, and yes we do have them taken down and laid flat. You may be looking at stripping, re-sanding, re-priming and re-rolling. Try sanding the stroke marks and dimples first then try re-rolling your finish coat. I'm certain Home Depot sells the hotdog rollers, we buy them in the six-pack but your Ben Moore dealer should also have the square-ended six inch rollers and we've even used 9 inch foam rollers on slab interior doors. Just try to lay down a good coat in, maybe, two or three passes and then resist the temptation to roll it out and roll it out. It will look dimpled initially but level out by the time it dries to the touch. Reload your roller often. Careful with the Penetrol; too much will flatten the sheen of the enamel. There are a lot of reasons to dislike Home Depot and their paint selection is reason no. 2 on my list. -- Dave in Houston |
#14
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
GG.and.UN. wrote:
We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen cabinets. The kitchen cabinets were real ugly - 70's looking with huge knots. We bought some alkyd gloss Benjamin Moore paint and have been painting the cabinets with some natural bristle Purdy brushes but we can't seem to get a smooth finish. We had originally cleaned them with TSP, applied some oil-based Bullseye Primer, sanded, put on a coat of BM, sanded, and another coat of BM. Unfortunately you can still see the brush strokes. It looks good if you stand a foot away but if you look closely you can easily see the brush strokes. So, we decided to use foam rollers. We tried three different kinds from the local paint store and purposely asked for contractor grade foam rollers. Unfortunately these all leave a slight orange peel look. So now we are considering spraying. My question is: 1) What are we doing wrong vis a vis brushing and rolling. What are some good tips to get a glass finish? 2) If we did want to spray, should we go HVLP with turbine, gravity fed, or what? I called all the local rent a centers in a 60 mile radius and no one rents the systems. I'd be buying one and do not want to spend more than $500; I'm even think of getting some touchup gravity fed gun from Lowe's or something. Any ideas - all are appreciated! 1. Nothing will beat spraying 2. No paint surface will be smoother than the underlying surface. It must be dead flat and smooth. It may be that the brush marks you are seeing are being telegraphed from a less than properly sanded undercoat. 3. Even starting with a perfect surface, a dried paint film will probably be less than perfect due to dust, uneven application, etc. 4. Oil paint is NOT dry when it feels dry. It takes several days - even weeks - to thoroughly dry and during that period the paint film continues to shrink. If it displays minor brush marks after it no longer feels tacky it may not after the paint is totally dry. 5. Good results can be achieved either with rollers or brushes. Or both. I used to paint my sizeable ketch topsides by rolling on enamel in an area maybe 3-4' wide from waterline to gunnel - around 25 sq.ft.; I'd then smooth & feather that with a 4" brush then "tip off" until the paint started to drag (set up) and then roll the next strip. 6. Paints from different manufacturers (or even the same manufacturer) behave differently and are also affected by temperature/humidity. Various additives, retarders and thinners can be used to control leveling and set up time. Marine enamels are about the best around. They are expensive. 7. Excellent colored surfaces are made the same way excellent clear ones are...apply material to a good surface, let dry, rub down with ever finer abrasives, polish. Lots of work. An easier though less perfect way is to apply material to a good surface, let dry completely, sand flat and smooth and then apply one more "shine" coat. That shine coat is a thinned down one applied as lightly and evenly as possible. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#15
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
I painted our old kitchen cabinets over 20 years ago before foam rollers
came into use. What I used was a small diameter x 4" long foam brush. I learned how to get a glass smooth finish with them and using a small natural bristle brush for tight corners where the roller couldn't fit. To get the glass smooth finish took a few steps to avoid lint in the paint. 1 - Scrub the new roller with a stiff bristle brush. 2 - Vacuum the scrubbed brush to remove the lint. 3 - Put on the first coat with the roller, do not toss or clean the roller but roll it reasonably dry on newspaper then seal in aluminum foil for storage. 4 - Do not delay more than 24 hours or the roller will start drying, sand lightly to remove any lint that the first coat of paint picked up, vacuum clean, then use the roller again, it will be 99.9% lint free. 5 - This worked perfectly on semi-gloss oil paint, I still have the old cabinets, only now they are in my workshop as storage cabinets. "Leon" wrote in message t... "GG.and.UN." wrote in message oups.com... It's actually pretty hard to find 1" rollers online... What are the thoughts on a mohair or lambswool roller? No, don't use a hair type roller. Home Depot and Lowe's stock the 4" x 1" rollers. They are white in color. There are also the yellow ones that are very porous. Stay from them for this job. And, yes the foam is not real porous like typical foam rubber. Not much paint soaks into them and the paint goes a long way. Be careful not to over load the roller until you get the feel. Look here http://www.quali-techmfg.com/Pages/rf.html |
#16
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
On Feb 19, 4:09 pm, "GG.and.UN." wrote:
We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen cabinets. The kitchen cabinets were real ugly - 70's looking with huge knots. Two coats of shellac, cut 2 lb. Spackle to fill the tearout. Those knots are history. We bought some alkyd gloss Benjamin Moore paint and have been painting the cabinets with some natural bristle Purdy brushes but we can't seem to get a smooth finish. We had originally cleaned them with TSP, applied some oil-based Bullseye Primer, sanded, What was the open (workable) time for that primer? I just did a bookcase with Benny Moore Impervo satin (will definitely use again). Burgundy, so needed a dark primer. Rustoleum rusty metal (!) gave me plenty of time to lay the paint smooth with no need to sand. Dead opaque earth brown; one coat saved me three coats of Impervo. put on a coat of BM, sanded, and another coat of BM. Unfortunately you can still see the brush strokes. It looks good if you stand a foot away but if you look closely you can easily see the brush strokes. So, we decided to use foam rollers. We tried three different kinds from the local paint store and purposely asked for contractor grade foam rollers. Unfortunately these all leave a slight orange peel look. So now we are considering spraying. My question is: 1) What are we doing wrong vis a vis brushing and rolling. What are some good tips to get a glass finish? 2) If we did want to spray, should we go HVLP with turbine, gravity fed, or what? I called all the local rent a centers in a 60 mile radius and no one rents the systems. I'd be buying one and do not want to spend more than $500; I'm even think of getting some touchup gravity fed gun from Lowe's or something. Any ideas - all are appreciated! Old, but well-cared for 2" Linzer black China bristle. Penetrol, 25%. Went on like glass. One visitor thought I used Formica. |
#17
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
On Feb 20, 1:54 pm, "Father Haskell" wrote:
On Feb 19, 4:09 pm, "GG.and.UN." wrote: We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen cabinets. The kitchen cabinets were real ugly - 70's looking with huge knots. Two coats of shellac, cut 2 lb. Spackle to fill the tearout. Those knots are history. We bought some alkyd gloss Benjamin Moore paint and have been painting the cabinets with some natural bristle Purdy brushes but we can't seem to get a smooth finish. We had originally cleaned them with TSP, applied some oil-based Bullseye Primer, sanded, What was the open (workable) time for that primer? I just did a bookcase with Benny Moore Impervo satin (will definitely use again). Burgundy, so needed a dark primer. Rustoleum rusty metal (!) gave me plenty of time to lay the paint smooth with no need to sand. Dead opaque earth brown; one coat saved me three coats of Impervo. put on a coat of BM, sanded, and another coat of BM. Unfortunately you can still see the brush strokes. It looks good if you stand a foot away but if you look closely you can easily see the brush strokes. So, we decided to use foam rollers. We tried three different kinds from the local paint store and purposely asked for contractor grade foam rollers. Unfortunately these all leave a slight orange peel look. So now we are considering spraying. My question is: 1) What are we doing wrong vis a vis brushing and rolling. What are some good tips to get a glass finish? 2) If we did want to spray, should we go HVLP with turbine, gravity fed, or what? I called all the local rent a centers in a 60 mile radius and no one rents the systems. I'd be buying one and do not want to spend more than $500; I'm even think of getting some touchup gravity fed gun from Lowe's or something. Any ideas - all are appreciated! If you decide that you can't get the finish quality you want by brushing/rolling take a look at pigmented lacquer. Getting the tint that you want might be a little problematic but you can easily spray a flawless finish. |
#18
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
On Feb 20, 4:01 pm, "Lincoln Terns" wrote:
On Feb 20, 1:54 pm, "Father Haskell" wrote: On Feb 19, 4:09 pm, "GG.and.UN." wrote: We are doing quite a bit of remodeling in our house including new countertops, redoing the hard wood floor, and painting the kitchen cabinets. The kitchen cabinets were real ugly - 70's looking with huge knots. Two coats of shellac, cut 2 lb. Spackle to fill the tearout. Those knots are history. We bought some alkyd gloss Benjamin Moore paint and have been painting the cabinets with some natural bristle Purdy brushes but we can't seem to get a smooth finish. We had originally cleaned them with TSP, applied some oil-based Bullseye Primer, sanded, What was the open (workable) time for that primer? I just did a bookcase with Benny Moore Impervo satin (will definitely use again). Burgundy, so needed a dark primer. Rustoleum rusty metal (!) gave me plenty of time to lay the paint smooth with no need to sand. Dead opaque earth brown; one coat saved me three coats of Impervo. put on a coat of BM, sanded, and another coat of BM. Unfortunately you can still see the brush strokes. It looks good if you stand a foot away but if you look closely you can easily see the brush strokes. So, we decided to use foam rollers. We tried three different kinds from the local paint store and purposely asked for contractor grade foam rollers. Unfortunately these all leave a slight orange peel look. So now we are considering spraying. My question is: 1) What are we doing wrong vis a vis brushing and rolling. What are some good tips to get a glass finish? 2) If we did want to spray, should we go HVLP with turbine, gravity fed, or what? I called all the local rent a centers in a 60 mile radius and no one rents the systems. I'd be buying one and do not want to spend more than $500; I'm even think of getting some touchup gravity fed gun from Lowe's or something. Any ideas - all are appreciated! If you decide that you can't get the finish quality you want by brushing/rolling take a look at pigmented lacquer. Getting the tint that you want might be a little problematic but you can easily spray a flawless finish. Spray can or spray gun? Easy way to a pianolike finish, but expensive as hell to setup for. That's one job I'd send out, not for lack of ability. |
#19
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
Well I stopped out to Home Depot and picked up some of the hotdog
covers and some Penetrol and will give it a go soon. I'm going to resand everything and try again utilizing those two products. Hopefully I'll get good results! Too bad they don't make the hotdog rollers in 1" or 2" lengths for doing the framework of the cabinets. It's a pain to use the 4" rollers because of overroll (I hope that's the roller's version of overspray). I did do a test roll with the hotdog roller and some Penetrol mixed with the paint and it seems like the paint takes much longer to dry. Does anyone recommend using some Japan Drier as well to counteract this or is it a desirable effect since the paint will have more time to level? The downfall to this longer drying time is dust and small hair particles... Thanks for all the help! |
#20
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
On Feb 20, 7:29 pm, "GG.and.UN." wrote:
Well I stopped out to Home Depot and picked up some of the hotdog covers and some Penetrol and will give it a go soon. I'm going to resand everything and try again utilizing those two products. Hopefully I'll get good results! Too bad they don't make the hotdog rollers in 1" or 2" lengths for doing the framework of the cabinets. It's a pain to use the 4" rollers because of overroll (I hope that's the roller's version of overspray). I did do a test roll with the hotdog roller and some Penetrol mixed with the paint and it seems like the paint takes much longer to dry. Does anyone recommend using some Japan Drier as well to counteract this or is it a desirable effect since the paint will have more time to level? The downfall to this longer drying time is dust and small hair particles... Thanks for all the help! Don't worry about dry time. Worry about cure. FWIW, how heavy did you apply the test coat? |
#21
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
Go to your local Sherwin Williams store and buy either a foam roller
cover or a mohair cover. They'll know what your looking for. Also, to help with leveling, buy some Penetrol. Add about 1/2 cup - 1 cup per gallon. This will help tremendously with brush marks. If you still have problems, it could be the primer underneath. It you don't start off with a smooth surface, the best paint in the world cannot fix it. |
#22
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
OK, I need a group hug so bear with me:
I feel like we've spent a lot of time on this already and haven't received very good results. I've been laying out my solutions and have come to these conclusions: 1) Tomorrow I sand everything down and redo everything using the hotdog roller and the BM with Penetrol. The thing is I can't roll everything and will have to brush in certain areas and I worry about the inconsistency. 2) Tomorrow I sand everything down and buy the darkest ebony stain I can find and stain all the wood. Hopefully the wood will be dark enough that all the ugly grain of the (birch?) wood will be hidden. What's the feasibility of this? .. |
#23
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
GG.and.UN. wrote:
Thanks for your response, I appreciate it. The smallest foam brush roller I could find around here were 4", a 1" would have been marvelous and I'll have to check online to see if I can order some. What do you mean by closed cell - does that mean that the foam doesn't have the little holes all over that leave the orange peel finish? 1" diameter. I get much better results with small foam rollers than with brushes. BM is my brand of paint, but gloss enamel is a bear. I tried it a couple of times, and found it dried too fast. I think it is also too brittle. Should probably be thinned, per the label on your paint. It won't sand well unless totally cured. Beyond that, I would be very tempted to try a pro who can spray the doors. Trying for a glassy finish on knotty old wood is tough. If you want glassy smoothe, but not as high gloss, then semi might work a good deal better for you. My one experience with spraying was using the little disposable spray kits available at box stores and paint stores. I used BM semi with them to do louvered doors. Spray pattern is very small, so they aren't suitable for larger surfaces. I used Penetrol to thin the paint, kept a small foam brush wrung out with mineral spririts to smoothe out drips and sags. Went very well. |
#24
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
GG.and.UN. wrote:
OK, I need a group hug so bear with me: I feel like we've spent a lot of time on this already and haven't received very good results. I've been laying out my solutions and have come to these conclusions: 2) Tomorrow I sand everything down and buy the darkest ebony stain I can find and stain all the wood. Hopefully the wood will be dark enough that all the ugly grain of the (birch?) wood will be hidden. What's the feasibility of this? Zero. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#25
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
Well, thanks for your recommendations.
What I decided to do is what Norminn slightly hit upon: use semi- gloss. So I'm going to go out and buy some more paint but I don't feel like driving an hour to get to a BM dealer so I'm goin g to try a Sherwin Williams paint; maybe the ProClassic line. What is their top product concerning alkyd paints that are tintable? |
#26
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
"GG.and.UN." wrote in message oups.com... OK, I need a group hug so bear with me: I feel like we've spent a lot of time on this already and haven't received very good results. I've been laying out my solutions and have come to these conclusions: 1) Tomorrow I sand everything down and redo everything using the hotdog roller and the BM with Penetrol. The thing is I can't roll everything and will have to brush in certain areas and I worry about the inconsistency. With a 4 inch 1" diameter roller you will be surprised how close you can get to corners and into tight spots. I typically use a brush when doing cabinets to get small cramped areas. The foam roller will also do trim pretty easily. |
#27
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
"GG.and.UN." wrote in message ups.com... Well I stopped out to Home Depot and picked up some of the hotdog covers and some Penetrol and will give it a go soon. I'm going to resand everything and try again utilizing those two products. Hopefully I'll get good results! Too bad they don't make the hotdog rollers in 1" or 2" lengths for doing the framework of the cabinets. It's a pain to use the 4" rollers because of overroll (I hope that's the roller's version of overspray). I did do a test roll with the hotdog roller and some Penetrol mixed with the paint and it seems like the paint takes much longer to dry. Does anyone recommend using some Japan Drier as well to counteract this or is it a desirable effect since the paint will have more time to level? The downfall to this longer drying time is dust and small hair particles... Thanks for all the help! If I use an additive with an oil based paint, I only add thinner. Regardless, under good conditions the oil based paints need to dry over night for you to be able to touch the surface. |
#28
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
We are not terribly opposed to either satin or semi-gloss for the
cabinets but I'd like to know which would be better at hiding the brush strokes better. The high gloss we had was as I said horrendously difficult to work with in terms of hiding brush strokes. I also read the flat is very difficult as well. Since both satin and semi-gloss are in the middle there, are they about the same or is one generally better than the other in terms of being the easiest to work with to attain smooth finish? |
#29
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
I have one more pressing question:
I should have everything sanded down to bare wood in a few hours, now what are the recommendations on priming? Should I still prime now that it's bare wood? I used the oil-based Zinsser Bulls-Eye 1-2-3 before but that was over a TSP-washed poly gloss. I've read a lot of places that it's not absolutely necessary to prime if using a top- quality paint. I went to the paint store and decided on some Sherwin- Williams ProClassic Alkyd paint. If priming is still recommended, what are some best of the best primers and what would be a kind I'd look for in a Sherwin-Williams store? Thanks for all the help! |
#30
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
GG.and.UN. wrote:
I have one more pressing question: I should have everything sanded down to bare wood in a few hours, now what are the recommendations on priming? Should I still prime now that it's bare wood? I used the oil-based Zinsser Bulls-Eye 1-2-3 before but that was over a TSP-washed poly gloss. I've read a lot of places that it's not absolutely necessary to prime if using a top- quality paint. I went to the paint store and decided on some Sherwin- Williams ProClassic Alkyd paint. If priming is still recommended, what are some best of the best primers and what would be a kind I'd look for in a Sherwin-Williams store? Thanks for all the help! Primer is usually applied over fresh bare wood. The idea is to seal the wood grain and prevent it from soaking up too much paint or varnish. If the wood soaks up the solvent too fast, the paint doesn't have time to level before its dry. For old work, even sanded down to "bare wood", I would expect the wood grain is still full of the old coating, what ever it was, and therefor a prime coat isn't going to do much for you. The last time I did a good paint finish on kitchen cabinets, starting from bare new wood, I did one coat of ordinary shellac, let dry over night, sand it out with 220 grit in a pad sander. Then a coat of oil based gloss enamel (trade name of "Larcaloid" or something like that). Dry overnight so its hard enough to sand without clogging the sandpaper. Then sand again. The sanding rubs down the high spots, and makes the surface flatter. Wipe down with a tack rag to get all the sanding dust. Apply a second coat of enamel. Let dry. Sand again. At this point my cabinets looked good enough so I hung them, but you can do a third coat and they will look better. The last sanding leaves a flattish finish. A coat of Butcher's wax brings out a nice semi gloss look. I used a good quality bristle sash brush to apply primer and enamel. Do the best brush cleaning you can to keep the good quality in the brush for the second coat. Now aday's the paint stores are moving to all water based paint. The water is getting better, and it might be good enough, but back then you had to use oil based enamel to get a decent finish. A lot of "interior" paint is good only for a flat finish on sheetrock. I've been told that good water based gloss enamels exist but I haven't used one and I'm still a little suspicious of anything that doesn't have oil in it. David Starr |
#31
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
"GG.and.UN." wrote in message oups.com... I have one more pressing question: I should have everything sanded down to bare wood in a few hours, now what are the recommendations on priming? Should I still prime now that it's bare wood? I used the oil-based Zinsser Bulls-Eye 1-2-3 before but that was over a TSP-washed poly gloss. I've read a lot of places that it's not absolutely necessary to prime if using a top- quality paint. I went to the paint store and decided on some Sherwin- Williams ProClassic Alkyd paint. If priming is still recommended, what are some best of the best primers and what would be a kind I'd look for in a Sherwin-Williams store? Thanks for all the help! A primer is used to insure a good bond between the material and the paint. Also, it can be used to smooth imperfections. Do a "very" light sanding after the primer to knock down any dust speck bumps. Wipe off the dust and apply the paint. Typically it is best to use the same brand primer as the paint that you will be using. The SW top of the line Alkyd is what I used to paint the trim and flat slab doors in my house. I did not use any additives at all. I would prime if going on top of bare wood. The wood will soak up some paint and better it be your first coat of the less expensive primer than the top coat material. If going over existing paint I prep the old surface by wiping down with Liquid Sander and then going straight from there with the final top coat. With that paint I had great results painting the slab doors with the 4" small cell roller where the door hung. As another poster indicated, get the paint on the door and don't over work it. When it has good coverage work another area. Practice on the back side of a door until you get the feel. It really is pretty simple. the trick is to not get too much paint on the roller and create a mess. |
#32
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
"GG.and.UN." wrote in message ups.com... We are not terribly opposed to either satin or semi-gloss for the cabinets but I'd like to know which would be better at hiding the brush strokes better. The high gloss we had was as I said horrendously difficult to work with in terms of hiding brush strokes. I also read the flat is very difficult as well. Since both satin and semi-gloss are in the middle there, are they about the same or is one generally better than the other in terms of being the easiest to work with to attain smooth finish? Usually the shinier the surface the more the imperfections will show up. With stain, the surface has to almost be perfect and evenly sanded with the same grit over the entire surface. If you do not sand the entire surface with the same grit you will have areas that absorb more stain than the smoother areas. Flat normally hides the most problems but tends to absorb stains and dirt much more easily. In a kitchen or bathroom I recommend a glossier finish when painting. Be sure to work in the Ideal temperature and humidity conditions recommended on the can of either paint or stain. |
#33
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
GG.and.UN. wrote:
I have one more pressing question: I should have everything sanded down to bare wood in a few hours, now what are the recommendations on priming? Should I still prime now that it's bare wood? Yes, of course! Putting enamel on bare wood is an exercise in futility. I repeat... 2. No paint surface will be smoother than the underlying surface. It must be dead flat and smooth. It may be that the brush marks you are seeing are being telegraphed from a less than properly sanded undercoat. I can't tell you which to use but you need one that builds well and SANDS EASILY. It needs to build in order to achieve a layer thick enough to sand perfectly flat and smooth. There are very few household primers that will fit the bill. There are numerous suitable ones available at auto paint supply houses. Not trying to be unkind or uppity but you obviously have no experience with what you are trying to do. Getting a flawless enamel paint job is very difficult and my best suggestion would be for you to have it professionally done. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#34
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
Thanks for everyone's suggestions, I really appreciate it.
Don't worry about it dadiOH, I appreciate your comments as well. I'm an avid DIY and I enjoy it. I'll always call a professional if necessary and I am definitely not afraid to do so. They don't need to be perfect, but I want to shoot for that. Also, I don't necessarily ask a lot of questions because I am clueless - I just want opinions so I can wage them all together and there is nothing wrong with that. A man seeking counsel is wise to do so. Also, I live in a town of only a few thousand and I called every remodeling place within the vacinity and no one does alkyd spraying. |
#35
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
GG.and.UN. wrote:
Well I stopped out to Home Depot and picked up some of the hotdog covers and some Penetrol and will give it a go soon. I'm going to resand everything and try again utilizing those two products. Hopefully I'll get good results! Too bad they don't make the hotdog rollers in 1" or 2" lengths for doing the framework of the cabinets. It's a pain to use the 4" rollers because of overroll (I hope that's the roller's version of overspray). I did do a test roll with the hotdog roller and some Penetrol mixed with the paint and it seems like the paint takes much longer to dry. Does anyone recommend using some Japan Drier as well to counteract this or is it a desirable effect since the paint will have more time to level? The downfall to this longer drying time is dust and small hair particles... Thanks for all the help! If you add Penetrol per the label, drying time should not be an issue. Get your work area real clean after sanding and before painting. If you are getting noticeable amounts of "overroll", then perhaps your roller is too loaded or you are pressing too hard. Keep a small foam brush, wrung out in mineral spirits, to smoothe the overroll...very light touch. In other posts, the question is asked whether to go with satin or semi. For cabinets (or kitchen or bath walls), I think semi is easier to clean. Shellac primers - I forget whether it is Bullseye or what - dry very fast and are tough to brush out. They are really "overkill" for new wood with no knots or bleed/stain problems. Ordinary primer of your favorite paint brand should be fine. |
#36
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Spraying vs. Rolling Kitchen Cabinets
replying to Leon, Anthony wrote:
In the future you will have same day in home shipping from amazon with an unlimited supply of obscure tools for any DIY project. -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodwo...ts-366430-.htm |
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