Guys, help me out on this....

I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So, I've
decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on the
doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
achieve a professional result?

thanks,
Anthony

In article ,
says...
Guys, help me out on this....

I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So, I've
decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on the
doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
achieve a professional result?

thanks,
Anthony

Purchase a hole saw (there's a standard size for current
locksets). Use a piece of scrap 1/8" masonite or 1/4" ply
or anything similar, about 3x3". Use small brads to
temporarily tack this scrap to the door over the existing
hole. This will give you material to start the hole saw
with. So long as the existing holes aren't too far from the
door edge, you'll be able to make the change seamlessly.
--
Mark

The truth as I perceive it to be.
Your perception may be different.

There is a hole drill arbor that holds two different hole saws. You put a
smaller hole saw on that just fits the old hole and a bigger hole saw that
is the correct size. The small hole saw acts as a guide for the big saw.
It is made by Starret and McFeely's carries it as part #HS-0019. They say:
It could happen to anyone, but it happened to you. You relied on bad
information, and are now staring at a 1-1/2" hole where a 1-3/4" hole is
supposed to be. Now you can fix such vexations. Simply screw the hole saw
for the existing hole onto the "OOPS" arbor (it accepts both 1/2" and 5/8"
threaded cutters), screw the correct hole saw onto the pin-lock arbor, then
place the "OOPS" arbor in the pilot drill hole. For the system to work, the
inside and outside hole saws must have a size difference of at least 3/16".
Perfect when installing new door lock hardware, or when enlarging holes for
new piping in an old house. (Hole saw blades not included). Made in USA.

If you do not have a 3/16" difference you can use a router an a rabetting
bit. Put the correct ball bearing on your rabettting bit and make a cut
about halfway through the door. If the old hole is 1" and you need a 1 1/4"
hole, you would make an 1.8" rabbet around the hole. Then swap in a pattern
cutting bit and use the newly cut rabbet as a guide to finish the rest of
the cut.

Clear as MUD???


--
David Chamberlain



remove nospam to reach me



thony" wrote in message
...
Guys, help me out on this....

I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So,
I've
decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on
the
doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
achieve a professional result?

thanks,
Anthony

Yea, I'd sure try polishing or plating, at least get an estimate.
If you redrill, you can clamp the sacrificial stock with Quickgrips or c
clamps and blocks, so you don't make nail holes. If you use a piece of
1/2-3/4" pine, you can use it repeatedly. The hole in the pine will guide
the saw just fine and won't wear much.

If you need to make disks, you can use this method and leave the pilot bit
out entirely!
Wilson
"anthony" wrote in message
...
Guys, help me out on this....

I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So,
I've
decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on
the
doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
achieve a professional result?

thanks,
Anthony

David B. Chamberlain wrote:

information, and are now staring at a 1-1/2" hole where a 1-3/4" hole is
supposed to be. Now you can fix such vexations. Simply screw the hole saw

Too bad it's a mail order thing. I generally stay away from mail order.

That sounds very useful to have around.

As far as a me too answer, I was going to suggest using a hole saw or fly
cutter to make a plug the size of the old hole, and using that to guide in
a new hole saw. I don't know if that would work. The mail order gadget
sounds much better though.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 16952 Approximate word count: 508560
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

be of some value to a home restorer. Check it out before you toss them.
It may also be possible to re-plate them if you like the style.

Or for that matter, whip out the Brasso. Brass takes a long time to get
truly nasty looking, so if you clean it up good, it will probably be
possible to maintain it in some perpetual state of partial tarnish forever
with a little routine maintenance.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 16953 Approximate word count: 508590
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Go to an auto parts store and get a can of Mother's Mag and Aluminum polish.
It works as well on brass as it does on aluminum. When I was in basic
training, there was a guy that used to be an auto detailer. He brought a can
of Mother's with him. The rest of us had Brasso as it was available in the
PX. After seeing what it could do, the drill sargent told the guy that he
would have to use Brasso like the rest of us unless he wanted to supply us
all with Mother's. It IS that good. Try it. You'll never use Brasso again.

"Bob S." wrote in message
...
Anthony,

Others have answered how to cut the hole and several suggested
refurbishing
the brass. I'm in the process of rebuilding some French doors for my
niece - 2 sets. The old brass door knob sets where damn near black from
weathering, looked terrible with the inside bright brass parts scratched
and
ugly as sin....

Some lacquer thinner to clean the gunk off then a good rubbing/polishing
with Brasso. They're bright brass again, almost all the scratches are
rubbed out (inside door knobs) and after cleaning them again with the
thinner, I'll be using an enamel, clear protective coating on them
(Rustoleum).

Considering that a new, brass replacement lockset similar to what is on
the
doors would cost nearly $150 each, a couple hours of cleaning, polishing
and
spraying is saving my niece about $300 for two door sets.

A can of Brasso will set you back $3 and is more than enough to do a
houseful of doorknobs. You could even mount a polishing wheel on your
grinder (if you have one) and use jewelers rouge to speed up the process.

Bob S.

Trent© wrote in
:

The piece of wood goes over the old hole.

The first problem...

How do you know where the exact center is of the old hole?...in order
to position the drill properly...in order to be at the exact center of
the hole when you drill thru the good piece? I know it could be
done...with a lot of EXACT measuring...but

You don't really care about the center of the old hole. Just
position the guide (scrap) so that it's center is the right
distance from the edge of the door for the new lockset.

But here's the real thing that puzzles me...

...

Now...if you put a scrap piece on the OTHER side of the hole...and the
drill bit was long enough to catch that scrap piece...then that would
be another thing. The bit would pull the saw thru...and it'd be kinda
easy to gauge the center of the old hole.

The center drill bit doesn't pull the hole saw thru, it's
just there for guidance. You still have to push the drill
to force the hole saw teeth into the work.

John

(who's done the very thing suggested, and recommends using
a piece of 1x rather than something as thin as 1/4 ply, to
provide a better guide for the hole saw)

Well, it actually DOES pull. But that's not the point I was trying to
stress. The pulling or not pulling is not the important thing, of
course. Once the drill is thru the template, the template really has
no purpose...except that the sides of the new hole will stabilize the
hole saw.

Yes, that is sufficient and is the entire purpose of the template.

There no longer is any guidance for the drill bit.

And no real need for it anyway. It is only used to center the drill
initially. After that it has no effect anyway.

As I said, you can accomplish the same thing...and probably a lot
better...buy drilling the new hole FIRST...in the 2x template OFF the
door...then putting the template on the door...centering it
properly
Trent

Why drill twice?
Put the scrap on the door, mark and drill.
Why make things more difficult?



-Jack

Why drill twice?
Put the scrap on the door, mark and drill.
Why make things more difficult?
Trent
Drill hole in scrap, center scrap, drill hole in door.
That is drilling twice.
Put scrap on door, mark and drill.
That is drilling once.
-Jack

In all this discussion about how to enlarge an already
cut knob hole, I have not seen any mention of using a special
arbor that takes two hole saws. McFeely's sells an arbor that
accepts one saw the size of the existing hole and one saw of the
larger diameter to be cut. The smaller saw guides the drill
while the second does the cutting. Barring the purchase of a
new arbor, why not just make a dowel the size of the existing
hole and having a center bore the diameter of the pilot drill
for the hole saw. Slip the dowel onto the hole saw arbor, and
use as a guide through the existing hole.

There has been at least two on that subject.
"Dave Beyerl" wrote in message
...

In all this discussion about how to enlarge an already
cut knob hole, I have not seen any mention of using a special
arbor that takes two hole saws. McFeely's sells an arbor that
accepts one saw the size of the existing hole and one saw of the
larger diameter to be cut. The smaller saw guides the drill
while the second does the cutting. Barring the purchase of a
new arbor, why not just make a dowel the size of the existing
hole and having a center bore the diameter of the pilot drill
for the hole saw. Slip the dowel onto the hole saw arbor, and
use as a guide through the existing hole.

"Upscale" wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...
"Dave Beyerl" wrote in message
...
cut knob hole, I have not seen any mention of using a special
arbor that takes two hole saws. McFeely's sells an arbor that

Actually, it was mentioned in either the first or second reply, some
twenty
messages ago. It's still the best/easiest way to go however.

I have to disagree with this. It is only the best way if the holes are in
the same location.
When you are replacing an old lockset you may find that the backset is
identical for old and new.
You may also find that it is not.
When it is not then this approach is useless.

-Jack

"JackD" wrote in message ...

I have to disagree with this. It is only the best way if the holes are in
the same location.

Of course. If the centre doesn't line up with the original location, then
some other method will have to be used.

Greetings and Salutations.

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 15:18:39 -0400, "anthony" wrote:

Guys, help me out on this....

I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So, I've
decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on the
doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
achieve a professional result?

thanks,
Anthony


Well, the last time I had to deal with this problem, I ended
up making plugs for the old holes and gluing them in place. After
things had set up well, I simply used hole saws and forstner bits
to drill the NEW holes where I wanted them. Since the new hardware
was offset enough from the old that there would have been a noticable
gap, I thought this the simplist way to deal with it. If carefully
done, filled and sanded, it leaves a smooth surface that, when
painted, will make it hard to tell the holes were there.
on the other hand, if the existing hardware still works
well - why fix it? The tarnish problem can be dealt with by
making sure the doors get used on a regular basis.
Regards
Dave Mundt

Thanks to all who have made suggestions. I was hoping to keep all the old
knobs,etc., except they are completely worn out. They "grind" when opening
and closing the doors and there's metal filings all over the linings of the
holes. I should have mentioned that sooner. Maybe the original owners of
this home must have hung 100lb laundry bags on them! lol...

It's at times like this I had my lathe. I would have turned a plug and
glued it in and then redrill the holes. I learned my lesson - NEVER sell a
good tool!!

Anyways guys, thanks for the great replies and, please, keep them coming if
you've ideas. I'm not in any big hurry. Gotta keep time open for golf,
right?

anthony
"Dave Mundt" wrote in message
...
Greetings and Salutations.

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 15:18:39 -0400, "anthony" wrote:

Guys, help me out on this....

I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So,
I've
decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on
the
doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
achieve a professional result?

thanks,
Anthony


Well, the last time I had to deal with this problem, I ended
up making plugs for the old holes and gluing them in place. After
things had set up well, I simply used hole saws and forstner bits
to drill the NEW holes where I wanted them. Since the new hardware
was offset enough from the old that there would have been a noticable
gap, I thought this the simplist way to deal with it. If carefully
done, filled and sanded, it leaves a smooth surface that, when
painted, will make it hard to tell the holes were there.
on the other hand, if the existing hardware still works
well - why fix it? The tarnish problem can be dealt with by
making sure the doors get used on a regular basis.
Regards
Dave Mundt

What I do is cut out a plug with a hole cutter on a drill press. Glue it
.....epoxy? It back into the door and then redrill your hole out.
"anthony" wrote in message
...
Guys, help me out on this....

I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So,
I've
decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on
the
doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
achieve a professional result?

thanks,
Anthony

"Ted Ward" wrote in
:

Strange, I had this exact problem last night. I was installing a lock
and the hole needed to be 1/8 inch larger. I just put a wood boring
bit into my drill and carefully got it started and widened the hole.
The sides of the boring bit are slightly tapered so it guided it right
through.



You could make a quick jig, 2 pieces of ply or mdf with a piece the
thickness of the door sandwiched between so that you have a U shape to
slip over the door. Determine the distance between center of hole and
edge of door, drill a hole the appropriate size in your jig at this same
location and then use the jig to guide a hole saw.
The whole thing shouldn't take more than 10 minutes to make up, and
could be used for setting up holes in new doors as well.






"Silvan" wrote in message
...
David B. Chamberlain wrote:

information, and are now staring at a 1-1/2" hole where a 1-3/4"
hole is supposed to be. Now you can fix such vexations. Simply
screw the hole
saw

Too bad it's a mail order thing. I generally stay away from mail
order.

That sounds very useful to have around.

As far as a me too answer, I was going to suggest using a hole saw or
fly cutter to make a plug the size of the old hole, and using that to
guide in a new hole saw. I don't know if that would work. The mail
order gadget sounds much better though.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 16952 Approximate word count: 508560
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Anthony,

Clamp a 1x2 across the existing "too small hole".
Mark the desired center point (inside the existing hole) and use the
proper hole saw.

I have installed a large number of retro-fits this way without
problems.

PS on second thought I believe I did use a longer pilot bit in the
holesaw.

Rob

I'm tellin ya to glue a tight fitting plug in the hole and redrill it. Way
faster than all the stuff everyone else is saying. It would have been done
by now. Really ,just plug the hole and redrill it out. Might need some bondo
though. Unless its a stain grade door. Use a flycutter/ plug cutter things
you use in a drill press.NOT a hole saw ! Cut it out oversze a wee bit and
rasp it to fit in the hole. As long as its flush to both sides or a little
over thickness. Sand it flush to the faces of the door stile , then plug the
little hole in the center of the plug then holesaw/ redrill the new hole
out. Works for me when I blow the hole, too big.Thish should take you about
1 hr to cut the plug/ fit and glue it in/Use 5 min Epoxy. Beltsand to flush
and redrill the hole.
2 1/2 hr job. EASY !
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
y.com...

"anthony" wrote in message
...
Guys, help me out on this....

I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So,
I've
decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on
the
doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
achieve a professional result?

I see you already have help on the holes so I have nothing to add.

Just be sure of what you are replacing. They could be old junk, they could
be of some value to a home restorer. Check it out before you toss them.
It
may also be possible to re-plate them if you like the style.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

A plumber buddy of mine had to do this to a countertop and he just found a pipe
plug that fit the existing hole. That centered the hole saw long enough to get
it started

Anthony,
Here's a way it will take you 15 minutes...No Fuss...No filling..No Bogging

1) Mark out the centre of the existing hole in door out about 3" from the
hole both vertical & horizontal.

2) Take 2 pieces of scrap timber 4"x4"x 1/2" thick and mark a cross in the
centre, out to the edges

3) Cover the hole with the scrap timber..1 on either side ...line up the
cross on the timber with the centeline of the hole on the door and clamp
them.

4) Useing a HOLE SAW, drill through the scrap...this will put the hole
centred on the old hole and the scrap timber will guide your hole saw into
the door. Repeat on from the other side and PRESTO..New hole centred on old
hole ...15 minutes tops


FOW wrote in message
...
I'm tellin ya to glue a tight fitting plug in the hole and redrill it. Way
faster than all the stuff everyone else is saying. It would have been done
by now. Really ,just plug the hole and redrill it out. Might need some
bondo
though. Unless its a stain grade door. Use a flycutter/ plug cutter things
you use in a drill press.NOT a hole saw ! Cut it out oversze a wee bit and
rasp it to fit in the hole. As long as its flush to both sides or a little
over thickness. Sand it flush to the faces of the door stile , then plug
the
little hole in the center of the plug then holesaw/ redrill the new hole
out. Works for me when I blow the hole, too big.Thish should take you
about
1 hr to cut the plug/ fit and glue it in/Use 5 min Epoxy. Beltsand to
flush
and redrill the hole.
2 1/2 hr job. EASY !
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
y.com...

"anthony" wrote in message
...
Guys, help me out on this....

I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly.
So,
I've
decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes
on
the
doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions
to
achieve a professional result?

I see you already have help on the holes so I have nothing to add.

Just be sure of what you are replacing. They could be old junk, they
could
be of some value to a home restorer. Check it out before you toss them.
It
may also be possible to re-plate them if you like the style.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

Hi Anthony,

Professional results require professional tools. Check out your local
rental places and try to locate a jig for drilling holes for lockset
hardware. I have a jig made by Kwikset that I used when installing doors and
hardware many years ago. I bought a new door for a customer by using the
hole saw method and decided right then and there that the jig was not all
that expensive after all was said and done.

The jig adjusts for different thickness of doors and has an adjustment to
keep the jaws parallel as well. The bolt hole guide automatically centers
when changing thickness of doors. A kit will have a forstner bit for the
large hole and an auger bit for the bolt hole and require a 1/2 inch drill.
Once set, you can do a door in under 10 minutes and can save you lots of
time and endless amounts of frustration if you are doing a retrofit on the
whole house.

Just one professional opinion. You might want to get another on the
possible "antique" value of your old hardware. Some old hardware is almost
worth its weight in gold to those who do high end restoration work! Good
luck with your project.

Dan
"Eccentric by nature"

"anthony" wrote in message
...
Guys, help me out on this....

I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So,
I've
decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on
the
doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
achieve a professional result?

thanks,
Anthony