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Thomas Mitchell
 
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Default Scroll Saw recommendations

My wife told me to go out and get a scroll saw. Why can't she tell me to
go out and buy a morticing machine?

I've read the archives on google and some of the stuff goes back to
1992. There's newer stuff, but I thought I'd post a new message anyway
as I had more questions than answers. The more recent threads mention
the Dewalt 788 as being a good choice. Normally I would jump on this
kind of a recommendation but I don't want to put a lot of money into
this tool as I am getting it to make things for the wife. She has this
notion that I'm going to cut patterns and she's going to paint the
parts. Not sure how long that idea will last so I don't want to put a
lot of money into a tool that I will use once in a while.

That being said, does anyone have a recommendation for a decent get what
you pay for scroll saw that's between $100-200 dollars? I've read some
stuff about variable speed, how important of a factor is it? Seems
vibration would be more important to me and possibly the quick change
feature.

How often do you replace the blades on the scroll saw? Is it because the
blade breaks or just changing materials and thickness?

Thanks
Thomas

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DJ Delorie
 
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Default Scroll Saw recommendations


Some key things I've learned in my scroll saw journey:

1. Make sure it takes unpinned blades. Make sure that blade changes
are easy - if it requires an adapter to turn unpinned blades into
pinned blades, you won't like it. DAMHIKT.

2. The best setup is a quick-release blade change with a quick-release
tension system. Go to a store and try taking the blade off and
putting it back on a few times. For some patterns, you'll do this
dozens of times, to it had better be easy to do.

3. Variable speed isn't mandatory, but it sure is handy. My kids use
the lower speeds, I tend to use middle or high depending on the
blade. The thing that kills blades the most is HEAT and high speed
means friction and thus heat, which lowers blade life.

4. Vibration. There should be NONE. Put a coin on the table (on edge
if you can) and slowly go through all the speeds. There should be
no sign from the coin that there's any vibration.

I switch blades a lot when I need a different size. I use 2 or 0/2
for fine work, 5 for general work, and occasionally 12 for "rough
cutting". I don't break them often - if you break them often, it
means you're doing something wrong (speed too high, cut too agressive,
wrong blade). But they do wear out on their own. Treat them like
sandpaper - they're useful to a point, but expect to replace them as
needed.

Having said all that, I own a Grizzly 22" and the Dewalt 788. The
Griz takes pinned blades and is a "monster" as far as cutting goes - I
can cut metal, 2" oak, etc with it. But it vibrates a lot and won't
do fine work (#5 is the smallest blade the adapter takes). The 788 is
great for fine work, but won't take pinned blades and due to the way
the arms are designed, the blade moves horizontally more than average
(back to front, not side to side). The design has positive aspects
that outweigh this, though. My second choice for fine work was the
Delta variable speed 16" - it has (well, the one I tried had) slightly
more vibration, but the blade doesn't move horizontally as much, and
it was far cheaper.
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Thomas Mitchell
 
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Default Scroll Saw recommendations



1. Make sure it takes unpinned blades. Make sure that blade changes
are easy - if it requires an adapter to turn unpinned blades into
pinned blades, you won't like it. DAMHIKT.

Exactly what I read in the archived threads.

3. Variable speed isn't mandatory, but it sure is handy. My kids use
the lower speeds, I tend to use middle or high depending on the
blade. The thing that kills blades the most is HEAT and high speed
means friction and thus heat, which lowers blade life.


Don't remember reading this in the other threads. Interesting point.

4. Vibration. There should be NONE. Put a coin on the table (on edge
if you can) and slowly go through all the speeds. There should be
no sign from the coin that there's any vibration.


I would expect that from a higher end model, but I'd expect some
vibration in the lower end which is what I'm after.

My second choice for fine work was the
Delta variable speed 16" - it has (well, the one I tried had) slightly
more vibration, but the blade doesn't move horizontally as much, and
it was far cheaper.


Amazon has the Delta 40-570R 16" VS for $159. It's reconditioned and I
have never bought reconditioned, but am considering it this time. I do
recall reading several threads about this saw having considerable
vibration though.

  #4   Report Post  
Scratch Ankle Wood
 
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Default Scroll Saw recommendations

For your price range, look at the Delta. I have the 16" 2 speed model with
quick blade release. I think it goes about $120 now. I've used it for lots
of hours of cutting. I don't have a vibration problem but others point to
that repeatedly as being a problem so I figure I got lucky. Do get
something with a quick blade release system. Any amount of inside cuts
makes this a handy feature. Using hex keys or twisting knurled knobs to
change blades will cause soreness after a while. For one or two inside cuts
that isn't an issue. For a dragon with 300 inside cuts, that's a major
issue. On mine after initially setting the tension, blade release is simply
flipping two levers (blade clamp and blade tension), rethread the blade
through the next hole, and flip those same two levers and you're good to go.
A matter of 15 to 20 seconds compared to a minute or more. That dragon took
10 hours as it was

How often you change blades depends on a lot of factors. Your technique is
probably the biggest factor. Until you get the hang of proper tensioning
and proper cutting, you will break more blades. The type of wood will make
a difference as well. Some feel that the quality of the blade makes a
difference. Sears blades are looked down on and most of my cutting has been
with Sears blades (simply because that's the closest place with any kind of
selection) and I don't go through an inordinate amount of blades.


"Thomas Mitchell" wrote in message
...
My wife told me to go out and get a scroll saw. Why can't she tell me to
go out and buy a morticing machine?

I've read the archives on google and some of the stuff goes back to
1992. There's newer stuff, but I thought I'd post a new message anyway
as I had more questions than answers. The more recent threads mention
the Dewalt 788 as being a good choice. Normally I would jump on this
kind of a recommendation but I don't want to put a lot of money into
this tool as I am getting it to make things for the wife. She has this
notion that I'm going to cut patterns and she's going to paint the
parts. Not sure how long that idea will last so I don't want to put a
lot of money into a tool that I will use once in a while.

That being said, does anyone have a recommendation for a decent get what
you pay for scroll saw that's between $100-200 dollars? I've read some
stuff about variable speed, how important of a factor is it? Seems
vibration would be more important to me and possibly the quick change
feature.

How often do you replace the blades on the scroll saw? Is it because the
blade breaks or just changing materials and thickness?

Thanks
Thomas



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Thomas Mitchell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scroll Saw recommendations

So I take it you aren't recommending Grissly...?

DJ Delorie wrote:
Thomas Mitchell writes:

I would expect that from a higher end model, but I'd expect some
vibration in the lower end which is what I'm after.



Contrast to my Grizzly, which I had to clamp to the bench to keep it
in one place. I eventually made a secondary base for it that centered
the c-arm over the new feet to get rid of some of that problem.

The two things that affect balance a

1. How much mass are you moving, and

2. How well-balanced is that mass.

The 788 moves only a tiny mass, and it's well balanced. The Delta
moves a larger mass, but it's balanced. The Grizzly moves a cast iron
26" c-arm, and it's not well balanced (heck, it's not even centered).




  #6   Report Post  
Blake McCully
 
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Default Scroll Saw recommendations

Thomas,
I would look to the Dremel 16" variable speed saw. I got a hand-me-down
from my father, he used it about 2 years. I have since moved up to a
DeWalt. The Borg stores used to carry it, I'm not sure if they do anymore.
That would be a nice general purpose machine to use.

Don't worry about blades, they are the cheapest thing you will encounter
when scrolling. You can get a gross (144) from Sloan's Woodshop for less
than .25 a piece, depending on what blade you use. I scroll a lot using
Baltic plywood, 1/4". That seems to really dull the blades up fast, the
glue ya know.

Whatever you try, have fun.

Blake

"Thomas Mitchell" wrote in message
...
My wife told me to go out and get a scroll saw. Why can't she tell me to
go out and buy a morticing machine?

I've read the archives on google and some of the stuff goes back to
1992. There's newer stuff, but I thought I'd post a new message anyway
as I had more questions than answers. The more recent threads mention
the Dewalt 788 as being a good choice. Normally I would jump on this
kind of a recommendation but I don't want to put a lot of money into
this tool as I am getting it to make things for the wife. She has this
notion that I'm going to cut patterns and she's going to paint the
parts. Not sure how long that idea will last so I don't want to put a
lot of money into a tool that I will use once in a while.

That being said, does anyone have a recommendation for a decent get what
you pay for scroll saw that's between $100-200 dollars? I've read some
stuff about variable speed, how important of a factor is it? Seems
vibration would be more important to me and possibly the quick change
feature.

How often do you replace the blades on the scroll saw? Is it because the
blade breaks or just changing materials and thickness?

Thanks
Thomas



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DJ Delorie
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scroll Saw recommendations


Thomas Mitchell writes:
Since I have a band saw, I would have tried to cut the legs of the
table with that.


I didn't have the bandsaw then, but you still can't cut in *inside*
hole (mortise) with a bandsaw. At least, not without cutting and
welding the band. It's easier to just drill a hole and scroll saw it,
and in 2" thick oak you need a beefy blade.

Wouldn't have thought a scroll saw, since when I think scroll I
think intricate detail. Seems that's not always the case. Lots to
learn.


Right. The Grizzly I have is for the "non-intricate" details ;-)
  #8   Report Post  
Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT
 
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Default Scroll Saw recommendations

Thu, Jul 24, 2003, 9:58am
(Thomas=A0Mitchell) says:
snip She has this notion that I'm going to cut patterns and she's
going to paint the parts. Not sure how long that idea will last so I
don't want to put a lot of money into a tool that I will use once in a
while. snip

No, what you do is have her try it, and she gets hooked, and she
does her own sawing. Hehehehe

Well, I have a Craftsman. Works great. Variable speed. Cost
around $35-40, new, in the box. Apparently the little franchise store
about 10 mles down the road had a close out, or something. Few days
later, they had a bit different model at around $170-180, or so. Don't
know who made it, but is has worked like a charm for some years now.
Takes pin or pinless blades.

The first blades (came with the saw) broke very fast. Don't know
if they were that cheap, or just a learning curve. The one in there has
lasted I don't know how long, and has cut doubled up 1/2" plywood, no
prob, just a bit slower. I like the variable speed too.

I don't have a major vibration problem, because it is solidly
bolted down. Sits on a bed bolted to the second shelf down, just as
sitting height. Had a brace under it, which also helps a lot, but
apparently the kid kicked it out. Gotta find it and put it back.

I have no idea who made it for Sears, but seems to be well made,
and I use it pretty often. Lot of times use it instead of my bandsaw,
even on straight line cuts. And, of course, it does curves so nice,
cuts a bandsaw couldn't come close to.

Only real recommendation I have is don't get one with the little
stamped steel table. Had one of those long ago, not happy with it at
all. Mine has a table plenty big enough for me, but it has four holes
in it, so you can bolt down a larger top if you want.

JOAT
Always put off until tomorrow something which, tomorrow, you could put
off until, let's say, next year.
- Lady Myria LeJean.

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 23 Jul 2003. Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...All/page4.html

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Dave Mundt
 
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Default Scroll Saw recommendations

Greetings and Salutations.

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:58:16 -0400, Thomas Mitchell
wrote:

My wife told me to go out and get a scroll saw. Why can't she tell me to
go out and buy a morticing machine?

Because the "honey-do" list does not include enough
things that involve mortise and tenon joinery?

I've read the archives on google and some of the stuff goes back to
1992. There's newer stuff, but I thought I'd post a new message anyway
as I had more questions than answers. The more recent threads mention
the Dewalt 788 as being a good choice. Normally I would jump on this
kind of a recommendation but I don't want to put a lot of money into
this tool as I am getting it to make things for the wife. She has this
notion that I'm going to cut patterns and she's going to paint the
parts. Not sure how long that idea will last so I don't want to put a
lot of money into a tool that I will use once in a while.

That being said, does anyone have a recommendation for a decent get what
you pay for scroll saw that's between $100-200 dollars? I've read some
stuff about variable speed, how important of a factor is it? Seems
vibration would be more important to me and possibly the quick change
feature.

One thing you might seriously consider is the used (or as I
like to say - the PreTested) market. Ebay often has large (24")
Delta cast-iron scroll saws for that range of cash. SHipping is a bit
of a consideration, of course, but, overall it is a great saw for
not too much money. Now...the older, cast-iron jobbies usually use
a spring to tension the blade. This is not really a "problem",
although it does take a bit more skill to use, as it is easier to
push too hard and cause the blade to deflect. The big benefit is
that they often are run with a pully drive that is nice and slow,
and, has a good, smooth cut, and, is easy to change speeds on.
I have to admit that I do lust after the higher end saws
(hegner, etc), although I have not been able to pry the $1200 or so
for one out of the wallet. They are going to be the "best" deal
in terms of smoothness of cut and ease of changing blades and such.

How often do you replace the blades on the scroll saw? Is it because the
blade breaks or just changing materials and thickness?

I replace the blade when I find that I have to start pushing
the wood through it. A good, sharp blade, fitted to the wood
thickness I am cutting, will slice through with almost NO effort.
As the teeth dull, though, the pressure needed increases. The
more pressure, the more likely the blade is to bow, and twist,
causing friction, heat, and failure.
Now...I find that when cutting thinner materials (1/2" or
thinner) I can lengthen the life of the blade quite a bit by putting
a spacer somewhat thicker than the stock under it and using the upper
section of the blade first. When I start feeling that cut getting
harder, I simply pull out the spacer, and, drop the stock down on
the table to continue cutting with sharp teeth.
Regards
Dave Mundt


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