Should a planer be able to operate continuously on boards at its capacity if
the recommended maximum cut is used???

I may have done something stupid tonight. Well, maybe not stupid... ignorant
at least. First time I tried running a 12 inch wide rough-sawn (red oak)
board through my Delta planer. I started, like I always do, feeding it
through with the depth set so it would feed through, but nothing being cut.
Then crank it down a half turn with each pass. The first couple of passes
where it actually cut, I noticed the motor was really bogged down, so I
switched to 1/4 turn down each pass. The owner's manual says 1 turn is 3/32
inch. So a quarter turn should be about 3/128, or about .023 being cut.

Of course, taking smaller cuts means it takes longer to surface both sides.
I was at this for about 30 minutes. Near the end I started lowering the
depth by only 1/8 turn (.011 cut).

When I shut if off, there was smoke rising off the motor housing, and the
gray plastic housing had discolored. :-( Son came out to the garage and
said "smells like burnt chicken in here!"

Now, the manual reads: "For 10" and 12" wide hardwood, a maximum depth of
cut of 3/64 is recommended". I was cutting less than that. Do the
manufacturers (or Delta at least) exaggerate the capability of these
machines? Should I have known better and cut for 10 minutes, then waited
for 10-15 minutes before continuing?

--
************************************************** **************************
***
I have learned that success is to be measured not so much by the
position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he
has overcome while trying to succeed. --Booker T. Washington
************************************************** **************************
***

"Keith Carlson" wrote in message:
snipped


So your trying to make your Delta into a toaster oven/minature wood kiln?
Just kidding.

I have noticed the delta tends to get pretty hot also. I didn't like the
heat on the housing so I shut down the motor every 5-10 minutes and look the
wood over. Check thickness, cupping, twist, etc. This gives the motor a 1-5
minute break depending on my setup.
I crank 1/4 turns, but I also feed boards thru without changing thickness
every few passes. Sometimes the boards have a bit of tension.
I know this is not much help, but I am starting to wonder about how much
this planer can handle.
Oh, BTW. Check your blades closely, they might be duller than you think.

Nope. I've got a _real_ 2HP induction motor (12A @ 220) and bed rollers to
ease the job, and I wouldn't ever take the max cut at full width. Maximum
cut depths are for narrower boards.

One time the kid and I got our wires crossed and each took a turn on the
depth adjuster. The lights dimmed, the planer slowed, then sped up as the
lights returned, and 13" of birdseye made it through without a pop. Not an
experience I care to repeat!

"Keith Carlson" wrote in message
news:sAISa.108750$N7.15497@sccrnsc03...
Should a planer be able to operate continuously on boards at its capacity
if
the recommended maximum cut is used???

In article sAISa.108750$N7.15497@sccrnsc03, "Keith Carlson" wrote:
Should a planer be able to operate continuously on boards at its capacity if
the recommended maximum cut is used???

No.
"Maximum" means just that: maximum. In other words, *most* of the time, you
should be cutting less than that.


I may have done something stupid tonight. Well, maybe not stupid... ignorant
at least. First time I tried running a 12 inch wide rough-sawn (red oak)
board through my Delta planer. I started, like I always do, feeding it

OK, I see one possible problem here already. If you don't have a 12" jointer
(and most of us don't), you shouldn't be trying to plane 12"-wide boards. You
simply *cannot* remove warp, twist, bow, or cup from a board with a planer,
and I haven't seen a rough-sawn board yet that didn't suffer from at least one
of these maladies to some small degree.

Unless you have a 12" jointer, the proper sequence for surfacing a 12"-wide
rough-sawn board is (a) rip the board into pieces no wider than the maximum
width of your jointer, e.g. 6"; (b) joint one face and one edge of
each piece straight, flat, and square; (c) rip them to width on the table saw
to get two straight parallel edges; (d) plane them smooth to get two straight
parallel faces; (e) edge-glue the pieces back together; (f) plane the glued-up
panel. If you're careful with steps a thru e, and handy with a scraper, you
can omit step f.

through with the depth set so it would feed through, but nothing being cut.
Then crank it down a half turn with each pass. The first couple of passes
where it actually cut, I noticed the motor was really bogged down, so I
switched to 1/4 turn down each pass. The owner's manual says 1 turn is 3/32
inch. So a quarter turn should be about 3/128, or about .023 being cut.

I have the same planer as you. They are light-duty planers, not heavy-duty
industrial machines, and a quarter-turn is a helluvalot to try to take off of
a 12-inch piece of red oak with one of these guys.


Of course, taking smaller cuts means it takes longer to surface both sides.

And taking aggressive cuts causes tear-out that must be scraped or sanded
smooth. It's just an issue of where you want to spend your time.

I was at this for about 30 minutes. Near the end I started lowering the
depth by only 1/8 turn (.011 cut).

Even that is a bit too much IMO for 12-inch oak with this planer. Repeat: it's
not a heavy-duty industrial planer.


When I shut if off, there was smoke rising off the motor housing, and the
gray plastic housing had discolored. :-( Son came out to the garage and
said "smells like burnt chicken in here!"

You didn't notice any smoke or off-smells while you were working??

Now, the manual reads: "For 10" and 12" wide hardwood, a maximum depth of
cut of 3/64 is recommended". I was cutting less than that. Do the
manufacturers (or Delta at least) exaggerate the capability of these
machines? Should I have known better and cut for 10 minutes, then waited
for 10-15 minutes before continuing?


The term "hardwood" does not mean "hard wood". Rather, it means "the
wood of a broadleaf deciduous tree"[*]. This includes aspen, basswood,
poplar, silver maple, tupelo, etc, and the "maximum cut depth of 3/64 inch"
would apply to softer hardwoods such as these. For hard hardwoods such as
sugar maple, hickory, or oak of any type, the cut depth should be reduced
accordingly. You simply can't expect to plane red oak successfully at the same
cut depth that would be appropriate for basswood.

You should have taken much-less-aggressive cuts. Not only is it easier on the
tool, you get smoother cuts, too, and correspondingly less time cleaning up
with a scraper or sander.

On several occasions, I have run my planer (Delta 12-1/2" portable, same as
yours) for more than two hours continuously, planing red oak four to six
inches wide at a cut depth of 1/8 to 1/12 turn (approximately 0.012"
to 0.008"). The motor gets hot after an hour, yes, but never smoking hot or
stinking hot. And my cleanup work with a scraper afterward is limited to
removing the marks left by the planer knives, not removing tear-out.

Bottom line: a 12" red oak board is too wide and too hard to plane off as much
wood with this planer as you were trying to do.

[*] Yes, I know this isn't completely accurate. The hardwood/softwood
distinction is actually a distinction between gymnosperms and angiosperms, but
I'm not trying to give a botany lecture here. :-)

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW

I have a close to 15 year old Ryobi AP-10 planer and do not witness what you
did even while running it for a couple of hours.
Are your knives sharp?

If you are getting saw dust and not all wood shavings, your knives are dull.

Your technique appears to be correct but I would check the knives.

I may have done something stupid tonight. Well, maybe not stupid...
ignorant
at least. First time I tried running a 12 inch wide rough-sawn (red
oak)
board through my Delta planer. I started, like I always do, feeding
it

OK, I see one possible problem here already. If you don't have a 12"
jointer
(and most of us don't), you shouldn't be trying to plane 12"-wide
boards. You
simply *cannot* remove warp, twist, bow, or cup from a board with a
planer,
and I haven't seen a rough-sawn board yet that didn't suffer from at
least one
of these maladies to some small degree.



Nope.

The standard practice to plane out cup is to take VERY light passes on
the high part of the board until it is planed flat.(light passes
prevent the rollers from just pushing the board flat). Then flip the
board over and plane that side parallel. I've done this any number of
times with no problems. Just be aware that you may end up with a fairly
thin board depending upon the amount of cup.

Warp and twist can be removed by hitting the high spots with a hand
plane or shimming the board so it rides "flat" and can't be pushed down
by the rollers. It is likewise sent through in light passes until the
top is flat and then flipped over and the other side made parallel

Bow is taken out with a jointer or a tablesaw as it relates to the wood
being bent in a different "dimension" than what would be addressed by a
planer.

Keith - I'd take smaller and thinner cuts. Also - just for my own info - is
your planer plugged directly into a wall socket or are you running it on an
extension cord?

Jim



"Keith Carlson" wrote in message:
Should a planer be able to operate continuously on boards at its capacity
if
the recommended maximum cut is used???

I may have done something stupid tonight. Well, maybe not stupid...
ignorant
at least. First time I tried running a 12 inch wide rough-sawn (red oak)
board through my Delta planer. I started, like I always do, feeding it
through with the depth set so it would feed through, but nothing being
cut.
Then crank it down a half turn with each pass. The first couple of passes
where it actually cut, I noticed the motor was really bogged down, so I
switched to 1/4 turn down each pass. The owner's manual says 1 turn is
3/32
inch. So a quarter turn should be about 3/128, or about .023 being cut.

Of course, taking smaller cuts means it takes longer to surface both
sides.
I was at this for about 30 minutes. Near the end I started lowering the
depth by only 1/8 turn (.011 cut).

When I shut if off, there was smoke rising off the motor housing, and the
gray plastic housing had discolored. :-( Son came out to the garage and
said "smells like burnt chicken in here!"

Now, the manual reads: "For 10" and 12" wide hardwood, a maximum depth of
cut of 3/64 is recommended". I was cutting less than that. Do the
manufacturers (or Delta at least) exaggerate the capability of these
machines? Should I have known better and cut for 10 minutes, then waited
for 10-15 minutes before continuing?

--

************************************************** **************************
***
I have learned that success is to be measured not so much by the
position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he
has overcome while trying to succeed. --Booker T. Washington

************************************************** **************************
***

Welcome to the little Delta planer. It's a great little machine but it's not
really designed to work for a living. For those large cuts, I only go MAX
1/8 turn and even then I try to go less than that. I'll run it through four
or five times and let the planer cool off before running it through again.

I ran 500 bd ft of pine through it a while back and while it did get hot, it
never really complained. That said, I was concerned enough that I bought a
15" JET for the "real" planing but am keeping the 22-560 for the smaller
stuff and for the finishing cuts.

Good luck
Rob


"Keith Carlson" wrote in message
news:sAISa.108750$N7.15497@sccrnsc03...
Should a planer be able to operate continuously on boards at its capacity
if
the recommended maximum cut is used???

I may have done something stupid tonight. Well, maybe not stupid...
ignorant
at least. First time I tried running a 12 inch wide rough-sawn (red oak)
board through my Delta planer. I started, like I always do, feeding it
through with the depth set so it would feed through, but nothing being
cut.
Then crank it down a half turn with each pass. The first couple of passes
where it actually cut, I noticed the motor was really bogged down, so I
switched to 1/4 turn down each pass. The owner's manual says 1 turn is
3/32
inch. So a quarter turn should be about 3/128, or about .023 being cut.

Of course, taking smaller cuts means it takes longer to surface both
sides.
I was at this for about 30 minutes. Near the end I started lowering the
depth by only 1/8 turn (.011 cut).

When I shut if off, there was smoke rising off the motor housing, and the
gray plastic housing had discolored. :-( Son came out to the garage and
said "smells like burnt chicken in here!"

Now, the manual reads: "For 10" and 12" wide hardwood, a maximum depth of
cut of 3/64 is recommended". I was cutting less than that. Do the
manufacturers (or Delta at least) exaggerate the capability of these
machines? Should I have known better and cut for 10 minutes, then waited
for 10-15 minutes before continuing?

--

************************************************** **************************
***
I have learned that success is to be measured not so much by the
position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he
has overcome while trying to succeed. --Booker T. Washington

************************************************** **************************
***

"Leon" wrote in
:

I have a close to 15 year old Ryobi AP-10 planer and do not witness
what you did even while running it for a couple of hours.
Are your knives sharp?

If you are getting saw dust and not all wood shavings, your knives are
dull.

Your technique appears to be correct but I would check the knives.

That was my thought too. I'd estimate with my Delta planer, from
experience, that it's got twice the capacity with new knives than
with ones that have been on the machine for a while. And that's
before getting to the "saw dust" stage.

John

Thanks all, for the feedback. I will just remember the limitations next
time. (which is soon, three more boards, but those are 13" wide, so were
going to be ripped down with the circular saw first anyway).

Couple of quick reply-replies:
Yep, the blades were sharp. I had just flipped the blades over to a clean,
sharp edge (double-edged blades).

Yep, was using an extension cord. Only way around that for me is to install
a drop-down outlet from the ceiling of my garage. Cord is 12ga, I believe.
Also, the electrical service in this house is not great. 100amp service, and
previous owners have added circuits... who knows how many outlets on a
circuit. I do know the garage shares a circuit with half the basement. I
have no 20amp outlets in the garage.

As far as the planer not being the right way to surface rough lumber, I
havent' had a problem getting boards flat yet. (but then, I haven't done
much work yet!) I'd guess I've surfaced about 60bf of my oak, and have
always come out flat and straight. The rough boards came pretty flat, and
another guess is that starting out at about 5/4 thickness, they don't
deflect much under the feed rollers.

Keith C.

"Rob Stokes" wrote in message
s.com...
Welcome to the little Delta planer. It's a great little machine but it's
not
really designed to work for a living. For those large cuts, I only go MAX
1/8 turn and even then I try to go less than that. I'll run it through
four
or five times and let the planer cool off before running it through again.

I ran 500 bd ft of pine through it a while back and while it did get hot,
it
never really complained. That said, I was concerned enough that I bought a
15" JET for the "real" planing but am keeping the 22-560 for the smaller
stuff and for the finishing cuts.

Good luck
Rob


"Keith Carlson" wrote in message
news:sAISa.108750$N7.15497@sccrnsc03...
Should a planer be able to operate continuously on boards at its
capacity
if
the recommended maximum cut is used???

I may have done something stupid tonight. Well, maybe not stupid...
ignorant
at least. First time I tried running a 12 inch wide rough-sawn (red oak)
board through my Delta planer. I started, like I always do, feeding it
through with the depth set so it would feed through, but nothing being
cut.
Then crank it down a half turn with each pass. The first couple of
passes
where it actually cut, I noticed the motor was really bogged down, so I
switched to 1/4 turn down each pass. The owner's manual says 1 turn is
3/32
inch. So a quarter turn should be about 3/128, or about .023 being cut.

Of course, taking smaller cuts means it takes longer to surface both
sides.
I was at this for about 30 minutes. Near the end I started lowering the
depth by only 1/8 turn (.011 cut).

When I shut if off, there was smoke rising off the motor housing, and
the
gray plastic housing had discolored. :-( Son came out to the garage and
said "smells like burnt chicken in here!"

Now, the manual reads: "For 10" and 12" wide hardwood, a maximum depth
of
cut of 3/64 is recommended". I was cutting less than that. Do the
manufacturers (or Delta at least) exaggerate the capability of these
machines? Should I have known better and cut for 10 minutes, then
waited
for 10-15 minutes before continuing?

--


************************************************** **************************
***
I have learned that success is to be measured not so much by the
position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he
has overcome while trying to succeed. --Booker T. Washington


************************************************** **************************
***

"Keith Carlson" wrote in message:
Couple of quick reply-replies:
Yep, was using an extension cord. Only way around that for me is to
install
a drop-down outlet from the ceiling of my garage. Cord is 12ga, I believe.
Also, the electrical service in this house is not great. 100amp service,
and
previous owners have added circuits... who knows how many outlets on a
circuit. I do know the garage shares a circuit with half the basement. I
have no 20amp outlets in the garage.


Keith - you're gonna lose a lot by using an extension cord. When you drop
your amps, that thing is gonna bog down. I had to use an extension cord as
well in my shop. However - I bought some heavily insulated 10 ga. wire and
made a 4 plex box. I was having the same problem with my DW - it was the
power source. I was also afraid I was going to burn up the motor (which is
common for air compressors!) I think that with everything you've read and
correcting as much as possible - you'll do great with it.

Best of luck,

Jummy

"Keith Carlson" wrote in message news:fZ%Sa.115407$N7.15747@sccrnsc03...
Thanks all, for the feedback. I will just remember the limitations next
time. (which is soon, three more boards, but those are 13" wide, so were
going to be ripped down with the circular saw first anyway).


one more thing: your description makes me think you may not have face
jointed one side of the board before running through your planer. If
so, having a rough and irregular face traveling against the bed might
be generating more friction than a portable planer can cope with,
especially given such a wide board. anyway, thicknessing stock that
has not been face jointed is not good practice, even if the planer has
enough muscle to do it.

....My experience is that, given decently sharp knives, moderate
passes, face jointed stock, and a waxed bed, my portable planer will
plane anything that will fit in, including wide hardwood boards. As
for endurance (....famous last words...), it's still going strong
after ten years of hobbyist useage, sometimes running for 30 or 45
minutes at a stretch. Mine happens to be the old Delta 12 inch model,
but I'd imagine the same holds true of any of the usual suspect
machines out there.

Keith Carlson wrote:
Should a planer be able to operate continuously on boards at its capacity if
the recommended maximum cut is used???

Not unless you have good ear protection and like tearing the unit down
for repair a lot!
....not to mention taking smaller bites and ruinning it through more -
which of course adds significant time to the operation as you note.

I'd say you've discovered a bench planer's limitations.
Having upgraded from a Dewalt to a 15" unit earlier this summer - the
difference is like night and day. Yeah, they take up more space and
cost twice as much - but man what a difference. Two runs through and
you're done with a much better finish to boot. I might as well been use
a hand plane before!

Mark from Pasadena, MD


I may have done something stupid tonight. Well, maybe not stupid... ignorant
at least. First time I tried running a 12 inch wide rough-sawn (red oak)
board through my Delta planer. I started, like I always do, feeding it
through with the depth set so it would feed through, but nothing being cut.
Then crank it down a half turn with each pass. The first couple of passes
where it actually cut, I noticed the motor was really bogged down, so I
switched to 1/4 turn down each pass. The owner's manual says 1 turn is 3/32
inch. So a quarter turn should be about 3/128, or about .023 being cut.

Of course, taking smaller cuts means it takes longer to surface both sides.
I was at this for about 30 minutes. Near the end I started lowering the
depth by only 1/8 turn (.011 cut).

When I shut if off, there was smoke rising off the motor housing, and the
gray plastic housing had discolored. :-( Son came out to the garage and
said "smells like burnt chicken in here!"

Now, the manual reads: "For 10" and 12" wide hardwood, a maximum depth of
cut of 3/64 is recommended". I was cutting less than that. Do the
manufacturers (or Delta at least) exaggerate the capability of these
machines? Should I have known better and cut for 10 minutes, then waited
for 10-15 minutes before continuing?

--
************************************************** **************************
***
I have learned that success is to be measured not so much by the
position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he
has overcome while trying to succeed. --Booker T. Washington
************************************************** **************************
***

Sounds like you just fried the motor. Ive used my 12 1/2 many times with a
full width board and never had any problems.
Q. Did you have an extension cord pluged into the machine, if you did and
it was to small(thin)or to long, you may have underpowered the motor.

"Mark" wrote in message
...


Keith Carlson wrote:
Should a planer be able to operate continuously on boards at its
capacity if
the recommended maximum cut is used???

Not unless you have good ear protection and like tearing the unit down
for repair a lot!
...not to mention taking smaller bites and ruinning it through more -
which of course adds significant time to the operation as you note.

I'd say you've discovered a bench planer's limitations.
Having upgraded from a Dewalt to a 15" unit earlier this summer - the
difference is like night and day. Yeah, they take up more space and
cost twice as much - but man what a difference. Two runs through and
you're done with a much better finish to boot. I might as well been use
a hand plane before!

Mark from Pasadena, MD


I may have done something stupid tonight. Well, maybe not stupid...
ignorant
at least. First time I tried running a 12 inch wide rough-sawn (red oak)
board through my Delta planer. I started, like I always do, feeding it
through with the depth set so it would feed through, but nothing being
cut.
Then crank it down a half turn with each pass. The first couple of
passes
where it actually cut, I noticed the motor was really bogged down, so I
switched to 1/4 turn down each pass. The owner's manual says 1 turn is
3/32
inch. So a quarter turn should be about 3/128, or about .023 being cut.

Of course, taking smaller cuts means it takes longer to surface both
sides.
I was at this for about 30 minutes. Near the end I started lowering the
depth by only 1/8 turn (.011 cut).

When I shut if off, there was smoke rising off the motor housing, and
the
gray plastic housing had discolored. :-( Son came out to the garage and
said "smells like burnt chicken in here!"

Now, the manual reads: "For 10" and 12" wide hardwood, a maximum depth
of
cut of 3/64 is recommended". I was cutting less than that. Do the
manufacturers (or Delta at least) exaggerate the capability of these
machines? Should I have known better and cut for 10 minutes, then
waited
for 10-15 minutes before continuing?

--

************************************************** **************************
***
I have learned that success is to be measured not so much by the
position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he
has overcome while trying to succeed. --Booker T. Washington

************************************************** **************************
***

"Upscale" wrote in message news:VVPWa.75157

How about a hypothetical question? Could you fasten a perfectly flat board
to the working piece and use that as the bottom board in a planer?

Yes, but since you are fasteing a less than perfect boad, you will still get
a less than perfect board when done. It will still transfer te
inpercetions.


Does a
planer push down hard enough to transfer any cupping of the working piece
to
the bottom mounted perfectly flat board? I'm guessing there would still be
some difficulties here.

I don't have a jointer yet. I tried to remove some cupping with a planer.
No luck, It needs a jointer. Yes, the pressure can flatten the board, but
it does not remove the raised portion.


It sounds like a jointer and a planer are both
absolute necessities when it comes to properly squaring up stock.

Yes, I hope to have a jointer by the end of the year. Glad I have the
planer, but you really need both.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

Upscale asks:

How about a hypothetical question? Could you fasten a perfectly flat board
to the working piece and use that as the bottom board in a planer? Does a
planer push down hard enough to transfer any cupping of the working piece to
the bottom mounted perfectly flat board? I'm guessing there would still be
some difficulties here. It sounds like a jointer and a planer are both
absolute necessities when it comes to properly squaring up stock.

There are difficulties, but...I've flattened a lot of cupped stock with a
planer over the years. It depends largely on two things: is your stock thick
enough to resist the flattening effect of the feed rollers; is the planer large
enough (15" and up) to have feed rollers that will really flatten stock up to
2". You don't really need a bottom mounted flat board, though. Your planer
tables should be flat.

One technique that works reasonably well is to put the cupped edges up first,
and make several super light passes, barely touching the upwards cupped edges
on each pass. Keep doing that until you get down to a full pass. Then start on
the humped side.

It doesn't always work, but it works often.

Lots simpler to use a jointer, if you have one.

Charlie Self

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family." George W. Bush,
Greater Nashua,N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000

Unless you use some sort of jig, your not going to square up a board with
planer.
"Upscale" wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
"Mark" wrote in message
...

I'd say you've discovered a bench planer's limitations.
Having upgraded from a Dewalt to a 15" unit earlier this summer - the
difference is like night and day. Yeah, they take up more space and
cost twice as much - but man what a difference.

I have to ask, is the cutting width of a jointer supposed to in some
instances replace a planer? Just to give you some context, I've haven't
yet
owned either. If one has a jointer with 6" blades and a planer, the only
time I can see using the jointer is flatten the edge of boards. In that
instance from my perspective, if one had a 4 ox 4 to square up, it would
make sense to use the planer and not the jointer. I guess my question is
that with both machines available doesn't the cutting width of a jointer
blade mostly get wasted or not be used?

After removing cup from boards all this time, you tell me that I can't do
that. I guess it's better that you don't know what you can't do. That way,
you just do it and not worry about it.
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
y.com...


Planers will not remove cup from a board either.

"CW" wrote in message

After removing cup from boards all this time, you tell me that I can't do
that. I guess it's better that you don't know what you can't do. That way,
you just do it and not worry about it.

If you do it ALL the time, you are better than me. I've done it only a
couple of times on narrow boards. No luck with winder boards.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome