Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
TC TC is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly
with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see
links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush -
same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg
--

  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,376
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

TC wrote:
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly
with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see
links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush -
same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg



Was, by chance, the original finish an oil finish (non-film)?

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 352
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?


"TC" wrote in message
...
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly
with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see
links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush -
same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


You don't have your wood sanded down smooth enough. The secret to any
finish - any finish, is in the preparation. I can see the grain in your
poly and that's not good. Sand your piece down until the ridges disappear.
Use the ridges as your guide coat, which is to say that you keep sanding
until you have no shiney spots left. The shiney spots will be your low
points and additional coats of poly will not adhere to them unless they get
scruffed. Take the piece down until it is all perfectly flat and perfectly
even in its lack of luster. Then, apply another coat of poly.

If you want to be extra safe, after you sand it down, apply a coat or two or
three of shellac and then apply your poly.

--

-Mike-



  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
TC TC is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

Nova wrote:

TC wrote:
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based
poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking
"things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to
a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg



Was, by chance, the original finish an oil finish (non-film)?


Honestly, I don't know. But I sanded to bare wood. Would it make a
difference (if I sanded to bare wood and the old finish was oil)?

--

  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
cm cm is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

We use water based finishes almost exclusively in our shop. So this is based
on my experience and what I see in your pictures.

I think you are getting an oil/water reaction to oil left in the wood. You
are going to have to completely remove the new finish. Then finish sand and
apply a coat of shellac. You can then proceed with your water based finish.
The shellac should be a good buffer between the two. Try a test piece first
to see if shellac and your water based are compatible.

cm


"TC" wrote in message
...
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly
with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see
links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush -
same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg
--





  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 352
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?


"cm" wrote in message
...
We use water based finishes almost exclusively in our shop. So this is

based
on my experience and what I see in your pictures.

I think you are getting an oil/water reaction to oil left in the wood. You
are going to have to completely remove the new finish. Then finish sand

and
apply a coat of shellac. You can then proceed with your water based

finish.
The shellac should be a good buffer between the two. Try a test piece

first
to see if shellac and your water based are compatible.


If his oil based finish (original), as we are guessing it to possibly be, is
older than a few weeks to a couple of months old, then there should be no
reaction between oil and water base. Actually, it should be reaction free
in less time than that, but I'm taking the tail between the legs, utlra
conservative approach to this. Once the finish is cured, there is no oil
left to react with a water based finish.

--

-Mike-



  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 136
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

I think it was "TC" who stated:

I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly
with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see
links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush -
same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


Could it have ever had anything silicone on it? I hope not, for your
sake . . . .

-Don (don't know how to deal with that -- hope I never have to)
--
"What do *you* care what other people think?" --Arline Feynman
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,376
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

TC wrote:
Nova wrote:


TC wrote:

I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based
poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking
"things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to
a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg



Was, by chance, the original finish an oil finish (non-film)?



Honestly, I don't know. But I sanded to bare wood. Would it make a
difference (if I sanded to bare wood and the old finish was oil)?


If it were an oil finish and you've used a furniture polish containing
silicone you may be experiencing "fish-eye" caused by silicone
contamination. If that is the case the new finish would have to be
removed and a barrier coat of shellac applied before the poly is applied.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 67
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?


"TC" wrote in message
...
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly
with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see
links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush -
same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg
--



TC,

I've read the other replies but one possibility has not been mentioned. You
didn't say what your sanding schedule was or how you did it. Normally, you
would start with a coarse enough grit to remove the old finish then work on
up thru 100, 150 and 220 - then stop. If you went on up to higher grits,
there's a chance that you have burnished the wood by sanding to hard and to
long so there's no "tooth" left for the finish to grab on to. You get about
the same reaction - if it can't adhere - it puddles. If this is the case -
start sanding again and as other's have stated - it's time for some shellac.

Bob S.


  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
cm cm is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

I agree with Mike that the old finish should not affect the new, but there
is some sort of reaction from a furniture polish or wax or??? Try the
shellac before applying more water based.

cm


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

"cm" wrote in message
...
We use water based finishes almost exclusively in our shop. So this is

based
on my experience and what I see in your pictures.

I think you are getting an oil/water reaction to oil left in the wood.
You
are going to have to completely remove the new finish. Then finish sand

and
apply a coat of shellac. You can then proceed with your water based

finish.
The shellac should be a good buffer between the two. Try a test piece

first
to see if shellac and your water based are compatible.


If his oil based finish (original), as we are guessing it to possibly be,
is
older than a few weeks to a couple of months old, then there should be no
reaction between oil and water base. Actually, it should be reaction free
in less time than that, but I'm taking the tail between the legs, utlra
conservative approach to this. Once the finish is cured, there is no oil
left to react with a water based finish.

--

-Mike-







  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,407
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?


"TC" wrote in message
...
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly
with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see
links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush -
same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


Scrape and sand that horrible mess off. I wouldn't even try to recoat it.

What finish was on the piece before is less important than others think. If
it's cured solid enough to get some tooth, the stuff should stick. There
are a lot of people, however, who like "lemon oil" and such which contain
non-curing oils like mineral oil to temporarily brighten the finish. Or use
those "swiffer" things to pick up the dust. Back to oil and water not
mixing. Could be your problem, though it appears you're getting the finish
to adhere, just unevenly.

Says surface tension within the film, not adhesion to the surface, to me.
Wonder about the dilution. Is that recommended? Not a current waterbase
user, but back when I tried, it seems to me you used some sort of a
flattening agent when you diluted to keep the emulsion consistent. Sort of
goes along with the vertical surface stuff where gravity helps mix being
good. At the least, use demineralized rather than tap water.

I'd test the existing poly on a vertical and horizontal surface of prepared
scrap to see if you need to scrap it. Something you can do as you try and
get that mess off the tabletop.

Good luck!


  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
TC TC is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

BobS wrote:


"TC" wrote in message
...
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based
poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking
"things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to
a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg
--



TC,

I've read the other replies but one possibility has not been
mentioned. You didn't say what your sanding schedule was or how you
did it. Normally, you would start with a coarse enough grit to
remove the old finish then work on up thru 100, 150 and 220 - then
stop. If you went on up to higher grits, there's a chance that you
have burnished the wood by sanding to hard and to long so there's no
"tooth" left for the finish to grab on to. You get about the same
reaction - if it can't adhere - it puddles. If this is the case -
start sanding again and as other's have stated - it's time for some
shellac.

Bob S.


Sanded with 80, 150, and 220.

--

  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
TC TC is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

Mike Marlow wrote:


"cm" wrote in message
...
We use water based finishes almost exclusively in our shop. So this
is

based
on my experience and what I see in your pictures.

I think you are getting an oil/water reaction to oil left in the
wood. You are going to have to completely remove the new finish.
Then finish sand

and
apply a coat of shellac. You can then proceed with your water based

finish.
The shellac should be a good buffer between the two. Try a test
piece

first
to see if shellac and your water based are compatible.


If his oil based finish (original), as we are guessing it to possibly
be, is older than a few weeks to a couple of months old, then there
should be no reaction between oil and water base. Actually, it
should be reaction free in less time than that, but I'm taking the
tail between the legs, utlra conservative approach to this. Once the
finish is cured, there is no oil left to react with a water based
finish.


Some more details:

* Table is 5+ years old. The old finish (unknown) was flaking, off to
bare wood.
* The table is not solid wood but veneer.
* Wife says no polish.
* I sanded using 80, 150, 220
* Does behave as if oil present when I apply poly.
* I didn't want to buy a new coffee table and figured I'd just
resurface this one. The rest of the table (legs) is fine. At this
point, it's not worth the time to restrip. Can I simply sand smooth and
coat with shellac or oil-based poly?

BTW, thanks for all the help!

--

  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

Airborne oil can do things like that. Never spray silicone or lubricants
within 100 yards of a product you are going to paint or finish. Never
use a rag that may have been contaminated, and remember that the oils
from your fingers can contaminate.
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
TC TC is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default UPDATE Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?

TC wrote:

I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based
poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking
"things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a
foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first).

Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected.

I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's
happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How
can I salvage what I have done?


http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg



I sanded the table until it was smooth again (not to the bare wood) and
coated with Minwax oil-based poly. That seems to have done the trick.
Seems something was affecting the water-based poly. Thanks all for the
help!
--



  #16   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 352
Default UPDATE Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?


"TC" wrote in message
...


I sanded the table until it was smooth again (not to the bare wood) and
coated with Minwax oil-based poly. That seems to have done the trick.
Seems something was affecting the water-based poly. Thanks all for the
help!
--


Thanks for the feedback. It's always good to get this kind of follow up and
to know that suggestions either worked or didn't. That goes a long way
toward culling out ideas that seem like they might work, and leaving behind
some good workable ideas.

--

-Mike-



Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Orange Peel Texture? "Knockdown" or "Skip Trowel" also "California Knock-down" HotRod Home Repair 6 September 28th 06 02:48 PM
Matching orange peel texture Carlos Home Repair 3 April 18th 06 12:59 AM
Orange Peel Dennis Johnson Woodworking 12 March 11th 06 12:16 AM
Orange Peel Dan Major Woodworking 4 September 2nd 05 01:33 PM
Wall & ceiling prep before applying texture (orange peel) Ernesto Home Ownership 1 August 20th 04 01:43 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:05 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"