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Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly
with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first). Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected. I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How can I salvage what I have done? http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg -- |
Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
TC wrote:
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first). Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected. I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How can I salvage what I have done? http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg Was, by chance, the original finish an oil finish (non-film)? -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA |
Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
Nova wrote:
TC wrote: I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first). Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected. I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How can I salvage what I have done? http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg Was, by chance, the original finish an oil finish (non-film)? Honestly, I don't know. But I sanded to bare wood. Would it make a difference (if I sanded to bare wood and the old finish was oil)? -- |
Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
We use water based finishes almost exclusively in our shop. So this is based
on my experience and what I see in your pictures. I think you are getting an oil/water reaction to oil left in the wood. You are going to have to completely remove the new finish. Then finish sand and apply a coat of shellac. You can then proceed with your water based finish. The shellac should be a good buffer between the two. Try a test piece first to see if shellac and your water based are compatible. cm "TC" wrote in message ... I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first). Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected. I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How can I salvage what I have done? http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg -- |
Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
"cm" wrote in message ... We use water based finishes almost exclusively in our shop. So this is based on my experience and what I see in your pictures. I think you are getting an oil/water reaction to oil left in the wood. You are going to have to completely remove the new finish. Then finish sand and apply a coat of shellac. You can then proceed with your water based finish. The shellac should be a good buffer between the two. Try a test piece first to see if shellac and your water based are compatible. If his oil based finish (original), as we are guessing it to possibly be, is older than a few weeks to a couple of months old, then there should be no reaction between oil and water base. Actually, it should be reaction free in less time than that, but I'm taking the tail between the legs, utlra conservative approach to this. Once the finish is cured, there is no oil left to react with a water based finish. -- -Mike- |
Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
I think it was "TC" who stated:
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first). Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected. I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How can I salvage what I have done? Could it have ever had anything silicone on it? I hope not, for your sake . . . . -Don (don't know how to deal with that -- hope I never have to) -- "What do *you* care what other people think?" --Arline Feynman |
Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
TC wrote:
Nova wrote: TC wrote: I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first). Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected. I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How can I salvage what I have done? http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg Was, by chance, the original finish an oil finish (non-film)? Honestly, I don't know. But I sanded to bare wood. Would it make a difference (if I sanded to bare wood and the old finish was oil)? If it were an oil finish and you've used a furniture polish containing silicone you may be experiencing "fish-eye" caused by silicone contamination. If that is the case the new finish would have to be removed and a barrier coat of shellac applied before the poly is applied. -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA |
Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
"TC" wrote in message ... I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first). Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected. I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How can I salvage what I have done? http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg -- TC, I've read the other replies but one possibility has not been mentioned. You didn't say what your sanding schedule was or how you did it. Normally, you would start with a coarse enough grit to remove the old finish then work on up thru 100, 150 and 220 - then stop. If you went on up to higher grits, there's a chance that you have burnished the wood by sanding to hard and to long so there's no "tooth" left for the finish to grab on to. You get about the same reaction - if it can't adhere - it puddles. If this is the case - start sanding again and as other's have stated - it's time for some shellac. Bob S. |
Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
I agree with Mike that the old finish should not affect the new, but there
is some sort of reaction from a furniture polish or wax or??? Try the shellac before applying more water based. cm "Mike Marlow" wrote in message ... "cm" wrote in message ... We use water based finishes almost exclusively in our shop. So this is based on my experience and what I see in your pictures. I think you are getting an oil/water reaction to oil left in the wood. You are going to have to completely remove the new finish. Then finish sand and apply a coat of shellac. You can then proceed with your water based finish. The shellac should be a good buffer between the two. Try a test piece first to see if shellac and your water based are compatible. If his oil based finish (original), as we are guessing it to possibly be, is older than a few weeks to a couple of months old, then there should be no reaction between oil and water base. Actually, it should be reaction free in less time than that, but I'm taking the tail between the legs, utlra conservative approach to this. Once the finish is cured, there is no oil left to react with a water based finish. -- -Mike- |
Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
"TC" wrote in message ... I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first). Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected. I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How can I salvage what I have done? Scrape and sand that horrible mess off. I wouldn't even try to recoat it. What finish was on the piece before is less important than others think. If it's cured solid enough to get some tooth, the stuff should stick. There are a lot of people, however, who like "lemon oil" and such which contain non-curing oils like mineral oil to temporarily brighten the finish. Or use those "swiffer" things to pick up the dust. Back to oil and water not mixing. Could be your problem, though it appears you're getting the finish to adhere, just unevenly. Says surface tension within the film, not adhesion to the surface, to me. Wonder about the dilution. Is that recommended? Not a current waterbase user, but back when I tried, it seems to me you used some sort of a flattening agent when you diluted to keep the emulsion consistent. Sort of goes along with the vertical surface stuff where gravity helps mix being good. At the least, use demineralized rather than tap water. I'd test the existing poly on a vertical and horizontal surface of prepared scrap to see if you need to scrap it. Something you can do as you try and get that mess off the tabletop. Good luck! |
Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
BobS wrote:
"TC" wrote in message ... I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first). Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected. I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How can I salvage what I have done? http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg -- TC, I've read the other replies but one possibility has not been mentioned. You didn't say what your sanding schedule was or how you did it. Normally, you would start with a coarse enough grit to remove the old finish then work on up thru 100, 150 and 220 - then stop. If you went on up to higher grits, there's a chance that you have burnished the wood by sanding to hard and to long so there's no "tooth" left for the finish to grab on to. You get about the same reaction - if it can't adhere - it puddles. If this is the case - start sanding again and as other's have stated - it's time for some shellac. Bob S. Sanded with 80, 150, and 220. -- |
Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
Mike Marlow wrote:
"cm" wrote in message ... We use water based finishes almost exclusively in our shop. So this is based on my experience and what I see in your pictures. I think you are getting an oil/water reaction to oil left in the wood. You are going to have to completely remove the new finish. Then finish sand and apply a coat of shellac. You can then proceed with your water based finish. The shellac should be a good buffer between the two. Try a test piece first to see if shellac and your water based are compatible. If his oil based finish (original), as we are guessing it to possibly be, is older than a few weeks to a couple of months old, then there should be no reaction between oil and water base. Actually, it should be reaction free in less time than that, but I'm taking the tail between the legs, utlra conservative approach to this. Once the finish is cured, there is no oil left to react with a water based finish. Some more details: * Table is 5+ years old. The old finish (unknown) was flaking, off to bare wood. * The table is not solid wood but veneer. * Wife says no polish. * I sanded using 80, 150, 220 * Does behave as if oil present when I apply poly. * I didn't want to buy a new coffee table and figured I'd just resurface this one. The rest of the table (legs) is fine. At this point, it's not worth the time to restrip. Can I simply sand smooth and coat with shellac or oil-based poly? BTW, thanks for all the help! -- |
Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
Airborne oil can do things like that. Never spray silicone or lubricants
within 100 yards of a product you are going to paint or finish. Never use a rag that may have been contaminated, and remember that the oils from your fingers can contaminate. |
UPDATE Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
TC wrote:
I have a coffee table I sanded to bare wood. I applied water-based poly with a brush. I get these puddles or orange peel looking "things" (see links. I figure it might be the brush so I switch to a foam brush - same result (yes, I sanded first). Curious though, the sides are nice and smooth as I expected. I diluted the poly about 10%. Am I putting it on too thick? What's happening? The wood was smooth before applying. The poly is new. How can I salvage what I have done? http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table.jpg http://home.cfl.rr.com/jmartin104/table2.jpg I sanded the table until it was smooth again (not to the bare wood) and coated with Minwax oil-based poly. That seems to have done the trick. Seems something was affecting the water-based poly. Thanks all for the help! -- |
UPDATE Polyurethane Orange Peel? Puddling?
"TC" wrote in message ... I sanded the table until it was smooth again (not to the bare wood) and coated with Minwax oil-based poly. That seems to have done the trick. Seems something was affecting the water-based poly. Thanks all for the help! -- Thanks for the feedback. It's always good to get this kind of follow up and to know that suggestions either worked or didn't. That goes a long way toward culling out ideas that seem like they might work, and leaving behind some good workable ideas. -- -Mike- |
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