We have hired a company to refinish our deck. When they sent us a
proposal, they specified two coats of their sealant. When workers
came, they acted all surprised when I requested that they come again
to put the second coat. I had to talk on the phone to the "manager"
who tried to convince me that I do not need two coats, that it was a
mistake etc. Their sealant, upon close examination, appears to be an
oil based stain diluted with solvent such as mineral spirits. They
said that second coat of that product will not penetrate and the deck
will forever remain oily.

My general and limited woodworking experience suggests that for a 20
year old and dry weathered wood, it will absorb an additional coat. I
requested that they leave a little bit of their sealant and tried
applying it again today, and alas, it was absorbed by the wood after I
wiped off the excess. I am sure that a second coat will make the
treatment last longer.

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will
thusly benefit from their sanding of the deck, and their treatment
will allow me to use less varnish. I tried varnishing one rail with
captain's spar urethane, and it looked frankly pretty good. Has anyone
varnished a weathered deck? Is that a crazy idea? Maybe I should
varnish rails only?

Thanks!

i

You ask "...Any thoughts on my decision making process?..."
Yes. It s*%ks.

"....When they sent us a proposal, they specified two coats of their
sealant..." "....When workers came, they acted all surprised....the
"manager" ... tried to convince me that I do not need two coats..."

These guys are robbing you, plain and simple. They charge for two
applications, but only deliver one. React accordingly. Life really isn't
all that complicated in most cases. Don't over analyze.

JG

My experience in maintaining spar varnish exposed to the sun and weather is
that it'll take 1/4 to 1/2 hour of labor per square foot per year to keep it
in good shape. YMMV.


Ignoramus26420 wrote:

We have hired a company to refinish our deck. When they sent us a
proposal, they specified two coats of their sealant. When workers
came, they acted all surprised when I requested that they come again
to put the second coat. I had to talk on the phone to the "manager"
who tried to convince me that I do not need two coats, that it was a
mistake etc. Their sealant, upon close examination, appears to be an
oil based stain diluted with solvent such as mineral spirits. They
said that second coat of that product will not penetrate and the deck
will forever remain oily.

My general and limited woodworking experience suggests that for a 20
year old and dry weathered wood, it will absorb an additional coat. I
requested that they leave a little bit of their sealant and tried
applying it again today, and alas, it was absorbed by the wood after I
wiped off the excess. I am sure that a second coat will make the
treatment last longer.

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will
thusly benefit from their sanding of the deck, and their treatment
will allow me to use less varnish. I tried varnishing one rail with
captain's spar urethane, and it looked frankly pretty good. Has anyone
varnished a weathered deck? Is that a crazy idea? Maybe I should
varnish rails only?

Thanks!

i

On 15 Jul 2003 03:56:54 GMT, Ignoramus26420
wrote:


Well, I did not pay them a dime yet. I will pay them when they put a
second coat.

Send a check for half the amount. After all, they only did half the
work. They will get in touch with you!!!! Remind them that *you* are
always right (customer). Perhaps you can settle for one coat and 3/4
the price.

Good luck

--
Q

Ignoramus26420 wrote in message ra.com...
In article , John Gaquin wrote:
You ask "...Any thoughts on my decision making process?..."
Yes. It s*%ks.

"....When they sent us a proposal, they specified two coats of their
sealant..." "....When workers came, they acted all surprised....the
"manager" ... tried to convince me that I do not need two coats..."

These guys are robbing you, plain and simple. They charge for two
applications, but only deliver one. React accordingly. Life really isn't
all that complicated in most cases. Don't over analyze.

Well, I did not pay them a dime yet. I will pay them when they put a
second coat.

In other words, your opinion is that I will benefit from the second
coat, right?

Not exactly. The stuff they use IS a penetrant. I've used it on my
deck for years. Even with one coat, if you get too much on, and the
deck has been previously done, it will puddle and not penetrate. And
it WILL be slicker than owl **** if it does that.

In article , Q wrote:
On 15 Jul 2003 03:56:54 GMT, Ignoramus26420
wrote:


Well, I did not pay them a dime yet. I will pay them when they put a
second coat.

Send a check for half the amount. After all, they only did half the
work. They will get in touch with you!!!! Remind them that *you* are
always right (customer). Perhaps you can settle for one coat and 3/4
the price.

Good luck


After I tried applying the second coat, no, I want a second coat and I
will pay 100% of price.

i

In article , basskisser wrote:
Ignoramus26420 wrote in message ra.com...
In article , John Gaquin wrote:
You ask "...Any thoughts on my decision making process?..."
Yes. It s*%ks.

"....When they sent us a proposal, they specified two coats of their
sealant..." "....When workers came, they acted all surprised....the
"manager" ... tried to convince me that I do not need two coats..."

These guys are robbing you, plain and simple. They charge for two
applications, but only deliver one. React accordingly. Life really isn't
all that complicated in most cases. Don't over analyze.

Well, I did not pay them a dime yet. I will pay them when they put a
second coat.

In other words, your opinion is that I will benefit from the second
coat, right?

Not exactly. The stuff they use IS a penetrant. I've used it on my
deck for years. Even with one coat, if you get too much on, and the
deck has been previously done, it will puddle and not penetrate. And
it WILL be slicker than owl **** if it does that.

The deck was never done before.

i

You don't want multiple coats on a deck. Thinner = better. The
process is to brush it on and the wood will absorb what it wants and
then you brush out the rest. Thick coats will just scratch, flake,
and peel and will look like hell in a few months.

You also don't want to varnish a deck. Once the varnish fails you'll
have the "job from hell" trying to strip it.

The best looking decks have a thin coat of lightly tinted oil based
deck stain and this get's re-applied every 2-3 years. Prep is just a
good cleaning with a garden hose and deck cleaner. (no pressure
washers!!!)



Ignoramus26420 wrote in message ra.com...
We have hired a company to refinish our deck. When they sent us a
proposal, they specified two coats of their sealant. When workers
came, they acted all surprised when I requested that they come again
to put the second coat. I had to talk on the phone to the "manager"
who tried to convince me that I do not need two coats, that it was a
mistake etc. Their sealant, upon close examination, appears to be an
oil based stain diluted with solvent such as mineral spirits. They
said that second coat of that product will not penetrate and the deck
will forever remain oily.

My general and limited woodworking experience suggests that for a 20
year old and dry weathered wood, it will absorb an additional coat. I
requested that they leave a little bit of their sealant and tried
applying it again today, and alas, it was absorbed by the wood after I
wiped off the excess. I am sure that a second coat will make the
treatment last longer.

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will
thusly benefit from their sanding of the deck, and their treatment
will allow me to use less varnish. I tried varnishing one rail with
captain's spar urethane, and it looked frankly pretty good. Has anyone
varnished a weathered deck? Is that a crazy idea? Maybe I should
varnish rails only?

Thanks!

i

In article , davefr wrote:
You don't want multiple coats on a deck. Thinner = better. The
process is to brush it on and the wood will absorb what it wants and
then you brush out the rest. Thick coats will just scratch, flake,
and peel and will look like hell in a few months.

No, no. This is oil sealant that does not polymerize like varnish. It
is basically oil with stain. So it is absorbed by the wood. I actually
tried putting a second coat yesterday, the piece of wood where I
applied it absorbed the extra oil and is looking deeper and I think
will last longer.

You also don't want to varnish a deck. Once the varnish fails you'll
have the "job from hell" trying to strip it.

Does exterior grade varnish also fail and peel?

The best looking decks have a thin coat of lightly tinted oil based
deck stain and this get's re-applied every 2-3 years. Prep is just a
good cleaning with a garden hose and deck cleaner. (no pressure
washers!!!)

This makes sense. But why would a second coat of such oil hurt???

i



Ignoramus26420 wrote in message ra.com...
We have hired a company to refinish our deck. When they sent us a
proposal, they specified two coats of their sealant. When workers
came, they acted all surprised when I requested that they come again
to put the second coat. I had to talk on the phone to the "manager"
who tried to convince me that I do not need two coats, that it was a
mistake etc. Their sealant, upon close examination, appears to be an
oil based stain diluted with solvent such as mineral spirits. They
said that second coat of that product will not penetrate and the deck
will forever remain oily.

My general and limited woodworking experience suggests that for a 20
year old and dry weathered wood, it will absorb an additional coat. I
requested that they leave a little bit of their sealant and tried
applying it again today, and alas, it was absorbed by the wood after I
wiped off the excess. I am sure that a second coat will make the
treatment last longer.

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will
thusly benefit from their sanding of the deck, and their treatment
will allow me to use less varnish. I tried varnishing one rail with
captain's spar urethane, and it looked frankly pretty good. Has anyone
varnished a weathered deck? Is that a crazy idea? Maybe I should
varnish rails only?

Thanks!

i

Ignoramus26420 wrote in message ra.com...

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

Two coat definitely better than one.


The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

The color will darken over time in a good way.



What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will

You didn't stain the deck yourself, and want to varnish it yourself?
Considering the labor and return, forget varnishing, stain yourself in
two years.

Ignoramus26572 wrote in message ra.com...
In article , basskisser wrote:
Ignoramus26420 wrote in message ra.com...
In article , John Gaquin wrote:
You ask "...Any thoughts on my decision making process?..."
Yes. It s*%ks.

"....When they sent us a proposal, they specified two coats of their
sealant..." "....When workers came, they acted all surprised....the
"manager" ... tried to convince me that I do not need two coats..."

These guys are robbing you, plain and simple. They charge for two
applications, but only deliver one. React accordingly. Life really isn't
all that complicated in most cases. Don't over analyze.

Well, I did not pay them a dime yet. I will pay them when they put a
second coat.

In other words, your opinion is that I will benefit from the second
coat, right?

Not exactly. The stuff they use IS a penetrant. I've used it on my
deck for years. Even with one coat, if you get too much on, and the
deck has been previously done, it will puddle and not penetrate. And
it WILL be slicker than owl **** if it does that.

The deck was never done before.

i

But, the point is, if you look at *most* cans of deck sealer, they
will tell you to 1. NOT let the stuff puddle, 2. not to do two coats,
unless done in a certain time frame. In other words, if the first coat
has been there too long, the second coat will not penetrate. It's just
doing what it's supposed to do, and that is preventing moisture from
getting in the wood. On my can, it says IF you want to second coat, to
do so immediately after the first coat soaks in.

Ignoramus26572 wrote in message ra.com...
In article , davefr wrote:
You don't want multiple coats on a deck. Thinner = better. The
process is to brush it on and the wood will absorb what it wants and
then you brush out the rest. Thick coats will just scratch, flake,
and peel and will look like hell in a few months.

No, no. This is oil sealant that does not polymerize like varnish. It
is basically oil with stain. So it is absorbed by the wood. I actually
tried putting a second coat yesterday, the piece of wood where I
applied it absorbed the extra oil and is looking deeper and I think
will last longer.

Then just let it absorb whatever it wants, but any sealant remaining
on the surface needs to be brushed out.

You also don't want to varnish a deck. Once the varnish fails you'll
have the "job from hell" trying to strip it.

Does exterior grade varnish also fail and peel?

Yes, varnish will fail. It might last one year or might last ten
years but it will fail which is usually peeling. This will be a
nightmare to sand and strip. Besides varnish will make for a very
slick surface.

If you like the look of varnish then take a look at some of the
Sikkens deck sealants. They have that glossy look but should perform
much better.

The best looking decks have a thin coat of lightly tinted oil based
deck stain and this get's re-applied every 2-3 years. Prep is just a
good cleaning with a garden hose and deck cleaner. (no pressure
washers!!!)

This makes sense. But why would a second coat of such oil hurt???

i



Ignoramus26420 wrote in message ra.com...
We have hired a company to refinish our deck. When they sent us a
proposal, they specified two coats of their sealant. When workers
came, they acted all surprised when I requested that they come again
to put the second coat. I had to talk on the phone to the "manager"
who tried to convince me that I do not need two coats, that it was a
mistake etc. Their sealant, upon close examination, appears to be an
oil based stain diluted with solvent such as mineral spirits. They
said that second coat of that product will not penetrate and the deck
will forever remain oily.

My general and limited woodworking experience suggests that for a 20
year old and dry weathered wood, it will absorb an additional coat. I
requested that they leave a little bit of their sealant and tried
applying it again today, and alas, it was absorbed by the wood after I
wiped off the excess. I am sure that a second coat will make the
treatment last longer.

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will
thusly benefit from their sanding of the deck, and their treatment
will allow me to use less varnish. I tried varnishing one rail with
captain's spar urethane, and it looked frankly pretty good. Has anyone
varnished a weathered deck? Is that a crazy idea? Maybe I should
varnish rails only?

Thanks!

i

In article , davefr wrote:
Ignoramus26572 wrote in message ra.com...
In article , davefr wrote:
You don't want multiple coats on a deck. Thinner = better. The
process is to brush it on and the wood will absorb what it wants and
then you brush out the rest. Thick coats will just scratch, flake,
and peel and will look like hell in a few months.

No, no. This is oil sealant that does not polymerize like varnish. It
is basically oil with stain. So it is absorbed by the wood. I actually
tried putting a second coat yesterday, the piece of wood where I
applied it absorbed the extra oil and is looking deeper and I think
will last longer.

Then just let it absorb whatever it wants, but any sealant remaining
on the surface needs to be brushed out.

You also don't want to varnish a deck. Once the varnish fails you'll
have the "job from hell" trying to strip it.

Does exterior grade varnish also fail and peel?

Yes, varnish will fail. It might last one year or might last ten
years but it will fail which is usually peeling. This will be a
nightmare to sand and strip. Besides varnish will make for a very
slick surface.

If you like the look of varnish then take a look at some of the
Sikkens deck sealants. They have that glossy look but should perform
much better.

Is Cetol DEK what I need? Any retailer suggestions? How long will it
last? How (in what way) does it fail after some time?

i


The best looking decks have a thin coat of lightly tinted oil based
deck stain and this get's re-applied every 2-3 years. Prep is just a
good cleaning with a garden hose and deck cleaner. (no pressure
washers!!!)

This makes sense. But why would a second coat of such oil hurt???

i



Ignoramus26420 wrote in message ra.com...
We have hired a company to refinish our deck. When they sent us a
proposal, they specified two coats of their sealant. When workers
came, they acted all surprised when I requested that they come again
to put the second coat. I had to talk on the phone to the "manager"
who tried to convince me that I do not need two coats, that it was a
mistake etc. Their sealant, upon close examination, appears to be an
oil based stain diluted with solvent such as mineral spirits. They
said that second coat of that product will not penetrate and the deck
will forever remain oily.

My general and limited woodworking experience suggests that for a 20
year old and dry weathered wood, it will absorb an additional coat. I
requested that they leave a little bit of their sealant and tried
applying it again today, and alas, it was absorbed by the wood after I
wiped off the excess. I am sure that a second coat will make the
treatment last longer.

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will
thusly benefit from their sanding of the deck, and their treatment
will allow me to use less varnish. I tried varnishing one rail with
captain's spar urethane, and it looked frankly pretty good. Has anyone
varnished a weathered deck? Is that a crazy idea? Maybe I should
varnish rails only?

Thanks!

i

Ignoramus26572 wrote in message ra.com...
In article , davefr wrote:
You don't want multiple coats on a deck. Thinner = better. The
process is to brush it on and the wood will absorb what it wants and
then you brush out the rest. Thick coats will just scratch, flake,
and peel and will look like hell in a few months.

No, no. This is oil sealant that does not polymerize like varnish. It
is basically oil with stain. So it is absorbed by the wood. I actually
tried putting a second coat yesterday, the piece of wood where I
applied it absorbed the extra oil and is looking deeper and I think
will last longer.

You also don't want to varnish a deck. Once the varnish fails you'll
have the "job from hell" trying to strip it.

Does exterior grade varnish also fail and peel?

The best looking decks have a thin coat of lightly tinted oil based
deck stain and this get's re-applied every 2-3 years. Prep is just a
good cleaning with a garden hose and deck cleaner. (no pressure
washers!!!)

This makes sense. But why would a second coat of such oil hurt???

It's simply because the first coat protects, so that the second coat
will never penetrate. It just sits on top like the water is supposed
to do. The only good that a second coat will do is make it slippery.

What's all this talk about a vanishing house deck. How in the world can a
deck vanish? It's so big and heavy, it can't even hide except at night and
even then a full moon would not allow it to vanish completely. Perhaps
creatures from outer space could make a deck vanish but they could make
almost anything vanish, including the house. I don't think it is possible
to make a deck van.......

Never mind.


"Ignoramus26420" wrote in message
a.com...
We have hired a company to refinish our deck. When they sent us a
proposal, they specified two coats of their sealant. When workers
came, they acted all surprised when I requested that they come again
to put the second coat. I had to talk on the phone to the "manager"
who tried to convince me that I do not need two coats, that it was a
mistake etc. Their sealant, upon close examination, appears to be an
oil based stain diluted with solvent such as mineral spirits. They
said that second coat of that product will not penetrate and the deck
will forever remain oily.

My general and limited woodworking experience suggests that for a 20
year old and dry weathered wood, it will absorb an additional coat. I
requested that they leave a little bit of their sealant and tried
applying it again today, and alas, it was absorbed by the wood after I
wiped off the excess. I am sure that a second coat will make the
treatment last longer.

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will
thusly benefit from their sanding of the deck, and their treatment
will allow me to use less varnish. I tried varnishing one rail with
captain's spar urethane, and it looked frankly pretty good. Has anyone
varnished a weathered deck? Is that a crazy idea? Maybe I should
varnish rails only?

Thanks!

i

"Emily Lattella" wrote in message
. ..
What's all this talk about a vanishing house deck. How in the world can a
deck vanish? It's so big and heavy, it can't even hide except at night
and
even then a full moon would not allow it to vanish completely. Perhaps
creatures from outer space could make a deck vanish but they could make
almost anything vanish, including the house. I don't think it is possible
to make a deck van.......

Never mind.

where in the subject line or the post's you provided does it say vanish?

Punch




"Ignoramus26420" wrote in message
a.com...
We have hired a company to refinish our deck. When they sent us a
proposal, they specified two coats of their sealant. When workers
came, they acted all surprised when I requested that they come again
to put the second coat. I had to talk on the phone to the "manager"
who tried to convince me that I do not need two coats, that it was a
mistake etc. Their sealant, upon close examination, appears to be an
oil based stain diluted with solvent such as mineral spirits. They
said that second coat of that product will not penetrate and the deck
will forever remain oily.

My general and limited woodworking experience suggests that for a 20
year old and dry weathered wood, it will absorb an additional coat. I
requested that they leave a little bit of their sealant and tried
applying it again today, and alas, it was absorbed by the wood after I
wiped off the excess. I am sure that a second coat will make the
treatment last longer.

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will
thusly benefit from their sanding of the deck, and their treatment
will allow me to use less varnish. I tried varnishing one rail with
captain's spar urethane, and it looked frankly pretty good. Has anyone
varnished a weathered deck? Is that a crazy idea? Maybe I should
varnish rails only?

Thanks!

i

Punch [line] wrote . . .

where in the subject line or the post's you provided does it say vanish?

Aw c'mon Punch, it was in the message posted by Rosanne Rosannadana, can't
see how you missed it.

Ignoramus26420 wrote:
We have hired a company to refinish our deck. When they sent us a
proposal, they specified two coats of their sealant. When workers
came, they acted all surprised when I requested that they come again
to put the second coat. I had to talk on the phone to the "manager"
who tried to convince me that I do not need two coats, that it was a
mistake etc. Their sealant, upon close examination, appears to be an
oil based stain diluted with solvent such as mineral spirits. They
said that second coat of that product will not penetrate and the deck
will forever remain oily.

My general and limited woodworking experience suggests that for a 20
year old and dry weathered wood, it will absorb an additional coat. I
requested that they leave a little bit of their sealant and tried
applying it again today, and alas, it was absorbed by the wood after I
wiped off the excess. I am sure that a second coat will make the
treatment last longer.

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will
thusly benefit from their sanding of the deck, and their treatment
will allow me to use less varnish. I tried varnishing one rail with
captain's spar urethane, and it looked frankly pretty good. Has anyone
varnished a weathered deck? Is that a crazy idea? Maybe I should
varnish rails only?

Thanks!

i


Varnish is probably not too good a choice. There must be clear poly
products for decks. I know that there isa paint category called deck
paint. It is harder than varnich and stands up better.

Rick

Try the Cabot's Decking Stain products; they work very well in my
experience and are top rated by a well-known consumer magazine. I
just did my 22x24 PT deck with 2.5 gallons worth of the stuff and
expect to not do it again for 2 years or more.

http://www.cabotstain.com

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:49:55 -0500, Rick
pixelated:

Varnish is probably not too good a choice. There must be clear poly
products for decks.

I want to see your face when you find out how much it's going
to cost you 2 years down the road to remove the cracked,
flaking, chipped, failed poly coating on that deck, Reeky.


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