Well for those of you that managed to find the splinter post that was
started concerning the SawStop, I have a proposal and or a suggestion. Most
of you know my views on the subject and I am not going to repeat them. I
certainly know most of your views and you need not repeat them here unless
they can be constructive.
As it seems the SawStop idea is for the most part accepted as a good
idea by most every one that has seen it or read about it. We are not so
fond of the method of delivery to the public. Some less fond of it than
others. If the SawStop proposal goes through and is approved by the
government many of us have indicated that we are simply not going to
purchase a tables saw as our way to protest the SawStop company and its
tactics. Some of us will buy the table saw despite the tactics used to
market the SawStop. Some of us simply will not be able to afford a new
table saw with the mandated modification. For most this is not a rosy
picture that we see before us. We want the freedom to buy a new table saw
and have a choice over the options that come with the saw. We want to be
able to afford to buy a new table saw with out the government and or an
outside company dictating how the table saw will be equipped, and some of us
will simply look at this modification as just another government mandated
requirement, buy the saw, and go on with life.
Not all of us are professional woodworkers and only perhaps a few of us
in this group are students. Some of us as individuals want the right to be
able to choose or not choose this SawStop modification and fiercely oppose
the tactics used by the Saw Stop company. Some of us work for a company and
use a table saw but have absolutely no say in what equipment is purchased
and or with which options. Some of us may be students in school just
learning this great skill of wood working. Those that are individuals that
do this for a living or as a hobby feel that their personal safety is
totally up to themselves and want to decide for themselves what and what not
to buy with out government intervention. Some of us would love to see this
option implemented on the saws at out work place as we have seen and heard
stories about the dangers of operating a table saw. We work day in and day
out sometimes for hours on end doing tedious work on the table saw and may
become complacent about our safety. We have mouths to feed and bills to
pay. We cannot afford to be out of work because of an injury and yet we
want our freedom. A few of us take shop in school and we are working in a
learning environment with machines every where we look. We spend an hour or
so a day taking in all the instructions, safety rules, building techniques,
and all the noises that the machines make. It can be a bit overwhelming to
many of us in this class room filled with machines that can do much harm to
us unless we are 110% focused. Not totally unlike driving the car for the
first time in traffic with all the other motorists. There are all kinds of
outside elements to distract us from what we must remain focused on, that
being our personal safety. A horn honks beside us and we quickly look
around to see what the trouble is and look back down the road to find that
we changed lanes or hit the curb. Back in the shop we are ripping a board
for the very first time and some one else is cranking up the planer to
plane a board to the correct thickness. We jump when we hear the planer
roar as the wood passes through and when we look back down at our push stick
we realize that some how it has slipped and slid down the board when we
jumped, our hand coming way too close to the blade. Or maybe we just
sneezed and jumped a bit. Perhaps you have a child in this school shop
also. An added element of safety would certainly be appreciated to the
uninitiated.
We are all in this boat together and we all have different priorities.
What a dilemma. I mentioned a couple of different woodworking scenarios in
the other thread concerning those that have no say in the purchasing of
equipment. They should also have the right to be able to work or learn on
equipment that is as safe as it can be manufactured. The Saw Stop or a
similar safety devise would probably be requested by those 2 groups with out
question if only they had any say. So here we are, at a cross road. The
Saw Stop is a remarkable new product that most certainly will prevent
accidents from becoming major injuries, but not all of us can afford the
luxury of having such a product or simply will not have such a devise
because of his or her beliefs in what freedom to choose means. Freedom like
everything else worth having comes with a price. Many of us, our fathers,
grand fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, cousins, sons, daughters, and
friends have given to our country above and beyond the norm to preserve our
freedom. A courageous and admirable group of individuals they are. I hold
a great respect and admiration for all of these relatives and friends of
ours for they have gone the extra mile for what they believe in and would go
many more to insure that what they have accomplished remains in place for
them selves and the rest of us. We owe them more than we could ever express
in words. Too many of them have given the ultimate price for us.
With this long winded thread I have taken the first step in trying to
pull this group together on this issue so that we can all come to terms with
what may be a crucial turn of events in the wood working industry and for
the individual hobbyists. The SawStop company is going after the
requirement that most all 12" and smaller new table saws be required to
have their product or one like it. They have invested their time and money
into coming up with a product that appears to be quite complex and effective
for the avoidance of injuries resulting from personal contact with a
spinning table saw blade. They have demonstrated their product and seem to
have been well received at numerous wood working shows and events . They
have contacted numerous table saw manufacturers and have had built what
appears to be a few prototypes of the finished product that they are now
taking advanced orders for. But now they have legally approached the
government with patents and a petition to require their product be use on
most all the table saws that you or I would ever buy. IIRC this group of
people are patent attorneys and have done their home work. IMHO they have
better that a 50/50 chance of having this proposal mandated by the
government. Not so good news for some, Ok news for others, and good news
for the rest. So for those that fall in the "Not so good news or OK news"
group, what are "you" going to do to preserve your freedom of choice
concerning this issue.
Tim Douglas, another long time contributor to this news group came up
with one of many possible great suggestions. Its suggests an avenue to take
that may make this pill not so bitter.. His post was the first that I
recall reading that has actually has gone past the stage of public out cry
about ones rights or freedoms of choice being compromised by this situation.
In a nut shell he said, ask that the proposal to be modified so that the
SawStop only be mandated for schools and small shops with 5 or more
employees. This would most likely be well received by students and their
instructors and the employees of shops that profit enough to have 5 or more
employees. Those of us that do not fall in that group would still be free
to choose a table saw with or with out a SawStop. This suggestion may not
work but it certainly gives those that oppose the SawStop petition a
compromise that is more palatable to the Saw Stop company than simply
sending in an opposing petition. They have a big investment in time and
money in their product and they apparently do what they do, well, as they
have gotten this far in so many years. While this will not be a cake walk
for them, they seem prepared for the long haul but would probably welcome
suggestions that are more fare to both us and them. So far they are either
getting great praise or great opposition and probably no suggestions for
compromise. Several magazine have praised their endeavor. Tim has
submitted to this group one idea for compromise, lets see who may have
another suggestion.
In closing, freedom is an invaluable privilege that is easily lost if
not fought for and guarded. For those of us that feel this way, remember
that freedom of choice comes with a cost. If we truly feel that the SawStop
mandate will restrict our freedom of choice then we have to do something
constructive and not just moan and groan and sit back and watch that freedom
be taken away from us. Arguing among ourselves ain't gunna get it. Go to
the bargaining table and make suggestions. Go to the bargaining table with
the willingness to compromise on some details or issues. Go to the
bargaining table and be a respectful and "truly knowledgeable"
representative of your fellow wood workers with offers that SawStop would be
interested in.

I have respectfully teed the ball up for you. Its now your shot.

Any non constructive comments need not be posted.

With great respect and admiration for this great group of wood workers I
wish you all the good luck.

Leon

Sorry Leon, I'm just not in the mood to read a book today.. After the first
couple of paragraphs didn't say anything substantial, I gave up. Have you
ever thought of starting a part time business? Something like "rent a
philibuster" comes to mind.
"Leon" wrote in message
y.com...
Well for those of you that managed to find the splinter post that was
started concerning the SawStop, I have a proposal and or a suggestion.
Most
of you know my views on the subject and I am not going to repeat them. I
certainly know most of your views and you need not repeat them here unless
they can be constructive.
As it seems the SawStop idea is for the most part accepted as a good
idea by most every one that has seen it or read about it. We are not so
fond of the method of delivery to the public. Some less fond of it than
others. If the SawStop proposal goes through and is approved by the
government many of us have indicated that we are simply not going to
purchase a tables saw as our way to protest the SawStop company and its
tactics. Some of us will buy the table saw despite the tactics used to
market the SawStop. Some of us simply will not be able to afford a new
table saw with the mandated modification. For most this is not a rosy
picture that we see before us. We want the freedom to buy a new table saw
and have a choice over the options that come with the saw. We want to be
able to afford to buy a new table saw with out the government and or an
outside company dictating how the table saw will be equipped, and some of
us
will simply look at this modification as just another government mandated
requirement, buy the saw, and go on with life.
Not all of us are professional woodworkers and only perhaps a few of
us
in this group are students. Some of us as individuals want the right to
be
able to choose or not choose this SawStop modification and fiercely oppose
the tactics used by the Saw Stop company. Some of us work for a company
and
use a table saw but have absolutely no say in what equipment is purchased
and or with which options. Some of us may be students in school just
learning this great skill of wood working. Those that are individuals
that
do this for a living or as a hobby feel that their personal safety is
totally up to themselves and want to decide for themselves what and what
not
to buy with out government intervention. Some of us would love to see
this
option implemented on the saws at out work place as we have seen and heard
stories about the dangers of operating a table saw. We work day in and
day
out sometimes for hours on end doing tedious work on the table saw and may
become complacent about our safety. We have mouths to feed and bills to
pay. We cannot afford to be out of work because of an injury and yet we
want our freedom. A few of us take shop in school and we are working in a
learning environment with machines every where we look. We spend an hour
or
so a day taking in all the instructions, safety rules, building
techniques,
and all the noises that the machines make. It can be a bit overwhelming
to
many of us in this class room filled with machines that can do much harm
to
us unless we are 110% focused. Not totally unlike driving the car for the
first time in traffic with all the other motorists. There are all kinds
of
outside elements to distract us from what we must remain focused on, that
being our personal safety. A horn honks beside us and we quickly look
around to see what the trouble is and look back down the road to find that
we changed lanes or hit the curb. Back in the shop we are ripping a board
for the very first time and some one else is cranking up the planer to
plane a board to the correct thickness. We jump when we hear the planer
roar as the wood passes through and when we look back down at our push
stick
we realize that some how it has slipped and slid down the board when we
jumped, our hand coming way too close to the blade. Or maybe we just
sneezed and jumped a bit. Perhaps you have a child in this school shop
also. An added element of safety would certainly be appreciated to the
uninitiated.
We are all in this boat together and we all have different
priorities.
What a dilemma. I mentioned a couple of different woodworking scenarios
in
the other thread concerning those that have no say in the purchasing of
equipment. They should also have the right to be able to work or learn on
equipment that is as safe as it can be manufactured. The Saw Stop or a
similar safety devise would probably be requested by those 2 groups with
out
question if only they had any say. So here we are, at a cross road. The
Saw Stop is a remarkable new product that most certainly will prevent
accidents from becoming major injuries, but not all of us can afford the
luxury of having such a product or simply will not have such a devise
because of his or her beliefs in what freedom to choose means. Freedom
like
everything else worth having comes with a price. Many of us, our fathers,
grand fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, cousins, sons, daughters, and
friends have given to our country above and beyond the norm to preserve
our
freedom. A courageous and admirable group of individuals they are. I
hold
a great respect and admiration for all of these relatives and friends of
ours for they have gone the extra mile for what they believe in and would
go
many more to insure that what they have accomplished remains in place for
them selves and the rest of us. We owe them more than we could ever
express
in words. Too many of them have given the ultimate price for us.
With this long winded thread I have taken the first step in trying to
pull this group together on this issue so that we can all come to terms
with
what may be a crucial turn of events in the wood working industry and for
the individual hobbyists. The SawStop company is going after the
requirement that most all 12" and smaller new table saws be required to
have their product or one like it. They have invested their time and
money
into coming up with a product that appears to be quite complex and
effective
for the avoidance of injuries resulting from personal contact with a
spinning table saw blade. They have demonstrated their product and seem
to
have been well received at numerous wood working shows and events . They
have contacted numerous table saw manufacturers and have had built what
appears to be a few prototypes of the finished product that they are now
taking advanced orders for. But now they have legally approached the
government with patents and a petition to require their product be use on
most all the table saws that you or I would ever buy. IIRC this group of
people are patent attorneys and have done their home work. IMHO they
have
better that a 50/50 chance of having this proposal mandated by the
government. Not so good news for some, Ok news for others, and good news
for the rest. So for those that fall in the "Not so good news or OK news"
group, what are "you" going to do to preserve your freedom of choice
concerning this issue.
Tim Douglas, another long time contributor to this news group came up
with one of many possible great suggestions. Its suggests an avenue to
take
that may make this pill not so bitter.. His post was the first that I
recall reading that has actually has gone past the stage of public out
cry
about ones rights or freedoms of choice being compromised by this
situation.
In a nut shell he said, ask that the proposal to be modified so that the
SawStop only be mandated for schools and small shops with 5 or more
employees. This would most likely be well received by students and their
instructors and the employees of shops that profit enough to have 5 or
more
employees. Those of us that do not fall in that group would still be free
to choose a table saw with or with out a SawStop. This suggestion may not
work but it certainly gives those that oppose the SawStop petition a
compromise that is more palatable to the Saw Stop company than simply
sending in an opposing petition. They have a big investment in time and
money in their product and they apparently do what they do, well, as they
have gotten this far in so many years. While this will not be a cake
walk
for them, they seem prepared for the long haul but would probably welcome
suggestions that are more fare to both us and them. So far they are
either
getting great praise or great opposition and probably no suggestions for
compromise. Several magazine have praised their endeavor. Tim has
submitted to this group one idea for compromise, lets see who may have
another suggestion.
In closing, freedom is an invaluable privilege that is easily lost if
not fought for and guarded. For those of us that feel this way, remember
that freedom of choice comes with a cost. If we truly feel that the
SawStop
mandate will restrict our freedom of choice then we have to do something
constructive and not just moan and groan and sit back and watch that
freedom
be taken away from us. Arguing among ourselves ain't gunna get it. Go to
the bargaining table and make suggestions. Go to the bargaining table
with
the willingness to compromise on some details or issues. Go to the
bargaining table and be a respectful and "truly knowledgeable"
representative of your fellow wood workers with offers that SawStop would
be
interested in.

I have respectfully teed the ball up for you. Its now your shot.

Any non constructive comments need not be posted.

With great respect and admiration for this great group of wood workers I
wish you all the good luck.

Leon

oops, filibuster.
"CW" wrote in message
news:fSIPa.38125$Ph3.3155@sccrnsc04...
Sorry Leon, I'm just not in the mood to read a book today.. After the
first
couple of paragraphs didn't say anything substantial, I gave up. Have you
ever thought of starting a part time business? Something like "rent a
philibuster" comes to mind.
"Leon" wrote in message

Leon, if you want to buy the g*dd*mn*d g*d*d*m sawstop then BUY the
g*dd*mn*d g*d*d*m sawstop but if you start another g*dd*mn*d g*d*d*m
sawstop thread I'm adding you to my g*dd*mn*d g*d*d*m sawstop kill
file.

This is my first and only post on the subject.

djb

--
"Wherever there is a jackboot stomping on a human face there will be a
well-heeled Western liberal to explain that the face does, after all, enjoy
free health care and 100 percent literacy." -- John Derbyshire

another tyrade deleted

My thoughts.... The SawStop will increase the cost of ALL table saws,
whether it's been installed on the saw or not.

--- If installed, you'll pay for it.

--- If not installed, the manufacturers will be paying millions to defend
themselves from injured users due to their "preventable accident", and pass
the cost to the consumer.

Either way, I've got the last TS I'll ever need, so I don't care.

Mitch

"If the SawStop proposal goes through and is approved by the
government many of us have indicated that we are simply not going to
purchase a tables saw as our way to protest the SawStop company and its
tactics. "

Good thing I found that my RAS does everything I need a tablesaw to do.
Come to the dark side with me

danh


"Leon" wrote in message
y.com...
Well for those of you that managed to find the splinter post that was
started concerning the SawStop, I have a proposal and or a suggestion.
Most
of you know my views on the subject and I am not going to repeat them. I
certainly know most of your views and you need not repeat them here unless
they can be constructive.
As it seems the SawStop idea is for the most part accepted as a good
idea by most every one that has seen it or read about it. We are not so
fond of the method of delivery to the public. Some less fond of it than
others. If the SawStop proposal goes through and is approved by the
government many of us have indicated that we are simply not going to
purchase a tables saw as our way to protest the SawStop company and its
tactics. Some of us will buy the table saw despite the tactics used to
market the SawStop. Some of us simply will not be able to afford a new
table saw with the mandated modification. For most this is not a rosy
picture that we see before us. We want the freedom to buy a new table saw
and have a choice over the options that come with the saw. We want to be
able to afford to buy a new table saw with out the government and or an
outside company dictating how the table saw will be equipped, and some of
us
will simply look at this modification as just another government mandated
requirement, buy the saw, and go on with life.
Not all of us are professional woodworkers and only perhaps a few of
us
in this group are students. Some of us as individuals want the right to
be
able to choose or not choose this SawStop modification and fiercely oppose
the tactics used by the Saw Stop company. Some of us work for a company
and
use a table saw but have absolutely no say in what equipment is purchased
and or with which options. Some of us may be students in school just
learning this great skill of wood working. Those that are individuals
that
do this for a living or as a hobby feel that their personal safety is
totally up to themselves and want to decide for themselves what and what
not
to buy with out government intervention. Some of us would love to see
this
option implemented on the saws at out work place as we have seen and heard
stories about the dangers of operating a table saw. We work day in and
day
out sometimes for hours on end doing tedious work on the table saw and may
become complacent about our safety. We have mouths to feed and bills to
pay. We cannot afford to be out of work because of an injury and yet we
want our freedom. A few of us take shop in school and we are working in a
learning environment with machines every where we look. We spend an hour
or
so a day taking in all the instructions, safety rules, building
techniques,
and all the noises that the machines make. It can be a bit overwhelming
to
many of us in this class room filled with machines that can do much harm
to
us unless we are 110% focused. Not totally unlike driving the car for the
first time in traffic with all the other motorists. There are all kinds
of
outside elements to distract us from what we must remain focused on, that
being our personal safety. A horn honks beside us and we quickly look
around to see what the trouble is and look back down the road to find that
we changed lanes or hit the curb. Back in the shop we are ripping a board
for the very first time and some one else is cranking up the planer to
plane a board to the correct thickness. We jump when we hear the planer
roar as the wood passes through and when we look back down at our push
stick
we realize that some how it has slipped and slid down the board when we
jumped, our hand coming way too close to the blade. Or maybe we just
sneezed and jumped a bit. Perhaps you have a child in this school shop
also. An added element of safety would certainly be appreciated to the
uninitiated.
We are all in this boat together and we all have different
priorities.
What a dilemma. I mentioned a couple of different woodworking scenarios
in
the other thread concerning those that have no say in the purchasing of
equipment. They should also have the right to be able to work or learn on
equipment that is as safe as it can be manufactured. The Saw Stop or a
similar safety devise would probably be requested by those 2 groups with
out
question if only they had any say. So here we are, at a cross road. The
Saw Stop is a remarkable new product that most certainly will prevent
accidents from becoming major injuries, but not all of us can afford the
luxury of having such a product or simply will not have such a devise
because of his or her beliefs in what freedom to choose means. Freedom
like
everything else worth having comes with a price. Many of us, our fathers,
grand fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, cousins, sons, daughters, and
friends have given to our country above and beyond the norm to preserve
our
freedom. A courageous and admirable group of individuals they are. I
hold
a great respect and admiration for all of these relatives and friends of
ours for they have gone the extra mile for what they believe in and would
go
many more to insure that what they have accomplished remains in place for
them selves and the rest of us. We owe them more than we could ever
express
in words. Too many of them have given the ultimate price for us.
With this long winded thread I have taken the first step in trying to
pull this group together on this issue so that we can all come to terms
with
what may be a crucial turn of events in the wood working industry and for
the individual hobbyists. The SawStop company is going after the
requirement that most all 12" and smaller new table saws be required to
have their product or one like it. They have invested their time and
money
into coming up with a product that appears to be quite complex and
effective
for the avoidance of injuries resulting from personal contact with a
spinning table saw blade. They have demonstrated their product and seem
to
have been well received at numerous wood working shows and events . They
have contacted numerous table saw manufacturers and have had built what
appears to be a few prototypes of the finished product that they are now
taking advanced orders for. But now they have legally approached the
government with patents and a petition to require their product be use on
most all the table saws that you or I would ever buy. IIRC this group of
people are patent attorneys and have done their home work. IMHO they
have
better that a 50/50 chance of having this proposal mandated by the
government. Not so good news for some, Ok news for others, and good news
for the rest. So for those that fall in the "Not so good news or OK news"
group, what are "you" going to do to preserve your freedom of choice
concerning this issue.
Tim Douglas, another long time contributor to this news group came up
with one of many possible great suggestions. Its suggests an avenue to
take
that may make this pill not so bitter.. His post was the first that I
recall reading that has actually has gone past the stage of public out
cry
about ones rights or freedoms of choice being compromised by this
situation.
In a nut shell he said, ask that the proposal to be modified so that the
SawStop only be mandated for schools and small shops with 5 or more
employees. This would most likely be well received by students and their
instructors and the employees of shops that profit enough to have 5 or
more
employees. Those of us that do not fall in that group would still be free
to choose a table saw with or with out a SawStop. This suggestion may not
work but it certainly gives those that oppose the SawStop petition a
compromise that is more palatable to the Saw Stop company than simply
sending in an opposing petition. They have a big investment in time and
money in their product and they apparently do what they do, well, as they
have gotten this far in so many years. While this will not be a cake
walk
for them, they seem prepared for the long haul but would probably welcome
suggestions that are more fare to both us and them. So far they are
either
getting great praise or great opposition and probably no suggestions for
compromise. Several magazine have praised their endeavor. Tim has
submitted to this group one idea for compromise, lets see who may have
another suggestion.
In closing, freedom is an invaluable privilege that is easily lost if
not fought for and guarded. For those of us that feel this way, remember
that freedom of choice comes with a cost. If we truly feel that the
SawStop
mandate will restrict our freedom of choice then we have to do something
constructive and not just moan and groan and sit back and watch that
freedom
be taken away from us. Arguing among ourselves ain't gunna get it. Go to
the bargaining table and make suggestions. Go to the bargaining table
with
the willingness to compromise on some details or issues. Go to the
bargaining table and be a respectful and "truly knowledgeable"
representative of your fellow wood workers with offers that SawStop would
be
interested in.

I have respectfully teed the ball up for you. Its now your shot.

Any non constructive comments need not be posted.

With great respect and admiration for this great group of wood workers I
wish you all the good luck.

Leon

The estimated cost to include this safety feature in a new saw is
well under $100. I think you're moanly loudly about a small matter.

Do you refuse to buy a car because they have to come with brakes,
brake lights, turn signals, and seatbelts?


You're also making a factual and logical error by deeming (paraphrase
here of your statement) "my safety is a completely personal matter".
If you cut your hand off with your tablesaw, and rush off to the hospital,
part or all of the cost of fixing you is borne by other people
with your health insurance plan, and/or taxpayers. This is strictly
personal only if you live in a cabin somewhere and cauterize your own stump.


-- Andy Barss

If our "government" requires the stupid thing I will purchase a
foreign made or "made for sale outside the US" table saw.

Andrew, with open eyes you actually see the Whole Big Picture.


"Andrew Barss" wrote in message
...

The estimated cost to include this safety feature in a new saw is
well under $100. I think you're moanly loudly about a small matter.

Do you refuse to buy a car because they have to come with brakes,
brake lights, turn signals, and seatbelts?


You're also making a factual and logical error by deeming (paraphrase
here of your statement) "my safety is a completely personal matter".
If you cut your hand off with your tablesaw, and rush off to the hospital,
part or all of the cost of fixing you is borne by other people
with your health insurance plan, and/or taxpayers. This is strictly
personal only if you live in a cabin somewhere and cauterize your own
stump.


-- Andy Barss

Andrew Barss wrote in message ...
The estimated cost to include this safety feature in a new saw is
well under $100. I think you're moanly loudly about a small matter.

Do you refuse to buy a car because they have to come with brakes,
brake lights, turn signals, and seatbelts?


You're also making a factual and logical error by deeming (paraphrase
here of your statement) "my safety is a completely personal matter".
If you cut your hand off with your tablesaw, and rush off to the hospital,
part or all of the cost of fixing you is borne by other people
with your health insurance plan, and/or taxpayers. This is strictly
personal only if you live in a cabin somewhere and cauterize your own stump.


-- Andy Barss

What do you mean by "well under $100?" If you read the petition,
SawStop says it would add less than 25% to the total cost of the saw.
I don't know about you, but 25% is pretty significant. And as far as
your moronic statement about safety being a "personal" matter, then
let's get rid of Social Security, Medicare and Welfare. I don't want
to be responsible for someone who is too stupid or incompetent to earn
a living for himself or put money aside for retirement.

The petition states that an override switch will be available when
cutting metal materials. Based on previous posts regarding the blade
guard, wouldn't a lot of people just turn it off to avoid the
possibility of a false fire deeming the device useless?

Here's my suggestion. How about requiring the saw manufacturers to
provide some kind of "port" which allows for the later installation of
a SawStop like device. That way, an individual can purchase the device
independently of the saw if he wishes.

-Bill

Larry states:

If our "government" requires the stupid thing I will purchase a
foreign made or "made for sale outside the US" table saw.

Go for it. Get a Yurpean model with a stub arbor.

Charlie Self

Facts are stupid things.
Ronald Reagan

Yes, the health care cost is shared, to an extent.

* But, it ain't the government's job to protect me from everything. *

As another poster showed, the incident of table saw accidents is small
in comparsion to numerous other activities that have greater potential
to send you to the emergency room.

And yes, I did refuse to buy any car that had the automatic seat belts
(though I do wear belts religiously).

Renata

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:25:54 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Barss
wrote:


The estimated cost to include this safety feature in a new saw is
well under $100. I think you're moanly loudly about a small matter.

Do you refuse to buy a car because they have to come with brakes,
brake lights, turn signals, and seatbelts?


You're also making a factual and logical error by deeming (paraphrase
here of your statement) "my safety is a completely personal matter".
If you cut your hand off with your tablesaw, and rush off to the hospital,
part or all of the cost of fixing you is borne by other people
with your health insurance plan, and/or taxpayers. This is strictly
personal only if you live in a cabin somewhere and cauterize your own stump.


-- Andy Barss

And then try to import it.


"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Larry states:

If our "government" requires the stupid thing I will purchase a
foreign made or "made for sale outside the US" table saw.

Go for it. Get a Yurpean model with a stub arbor.

Charlie Self

Facts are stupid things.
Ronald Reagan

"Love story was about me an' Tipper."
-Al Gore

Sbtypesetter wrote:
: "Love story was about me an' Tipper."
: -Al Gore


If you want to know the truth about this (Gore never said this; and the
male character was based on a composite of Gore and Tommy Lee Jones), look
it up he

http://www.kings.edu/twsawyer/y2kelect/honest-al.html
http://www.dailyhowler.com/h052500_1.shtml


Here's an actual, untruthful quote:

" Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from
Africa."
- George W. Bush


-- Andy Barss

In article ,
Leon wrote:

"Bill" wrote in message

What do you mean by "well under $100?" If you read the petition,
SawStop says it would add less than 25% to the total cost of the saw.
I don't know about you, but 25% is pretty significant. And as far as
your moronic statement about safety being a "personal" matter, then
let's get rid of Social Security, Medicare and Welfare. I don't want
to be responsible for someone who is too stupid or incompetent to earn
a living for himself or put money aside for retirement.

All valid points. but, the $100 price may very well be an average price
increase.

To inject facts into a good argument, in violation of hallowed USENET rules:

the actual claim was that SawStop "Would add less than $100 to the
*WHOLESALE* cost of a table-saw."

To me, that appears to be only the added 'manufacturing cost', and *does*not*
*include* the royalties payable to SawStop. Add another 8% to the wholesale
price.

If you are buying a $300. bench top saw, the 25% comes in to play
as $75. Judging by their web site and comparing a Powermatic to their
cabinet saw version, the difference in price seems to be in the 2 to 3
hundred dollar range.

Yawp. circa 25% increase in wholesale cost for a PM66 or Unisaw equivalent.


I'd expect a circa $500 contractor saw to get bumped to the $750 range
A BT3100 to jump to over $500, and 'bargian basement' tabletop saws to
*triple* in price -- from circa $100 to circa $300, *if* a 'direct drive'
design can utilize the protective device. I wouldn't be surprised if
activation of a sawstop in a direct-drive saw _totally_ ruined the saw.