Sloppy shelf pin holes: Help
 

I am new at this so I don't know what to expect and I need some advice.
I know that this is woodworking and not precision stuff where you want
0.001 inch tolerance but I am getting some really bad results.

I am trying to drill some shelf pin holes using a PC plunge router with
a 1/4 inch carbide spiral bit, a 1/2 inch to 1/4 inch collet reducer,
and a shelf pin gulde. I clamp the guide to the work to make sure that
it doesn't move while plungeing the router, and I have cleaned the
collet holder and collet. Here are some measurements I made: the router
bit diameter is right on the money at -0.0005 inches. I used a dial
indicator to measure the wobble of a piece of drill rod to be 0.002
inches at a point 1.75 inches from the collet base, which corresponds to
the tip of the router bit when it is installed. This should give a hole
about 0.004 oversize, right? The holes actually measure about 0.005 to
0.007 oversize. No big deal, after all this is wood. The shelf pins
measure about 0.003 to 0.004 under size. So here is the problem; holes
too big and pins too small make for around 0.010 slop in the fit of the
pins. Is a loose fit like this normal or can I do something to get the
pins to fit better. I know that the pins will not fall out when the
shelfs are placed on them, but the very loose fit of the pins bothers
me. Should I worry about this or not?

I can actually drill a better fitting hole using a hand held drill and a
1/4 inch forstner bit, but then I lose the placement accuracy of the
guide. Any suggestions?

What is a normal value for router bit wobble? is 0.002 too large or is
it about normal?

Thanks for any advice.

Sloppy shelf pin holes: Help
 

wrote:
I am new at this so I don't know what to expect and I need some advice.
I know that this is woodworking and not precision stuff where you want
0.001 inch tolerance but I am getting some really bad results.

I am trying to drill some shelf pin holes using a PC plunge router with
a 1/4 inch carbide spiral bit, a 1/2 inch to 1/4 inch collet reducer,
and a shelf pin gulde. I clamp the guide to the work to make sure that
it doesn't move while plungeing the router, and I have cleaned the
collet holder and collet.


I'm wondering if you are supposed to be using a template guide in your
router in conjunction with your shelf pin guide. Is there any play when
the router is plunged into the guide?

I would look at the setup of your guide/router before trying to measure
thousandths or smaller amounts of wobble in your router bit - if the
bit is moving side to side enough to make a difference you have a
problem with your router.

As for shelf pins, I've always used a hand drill, a brad point bit, and
a piece of peg board as a template.

Mike

Sloppy shelf pin holes: Help
 

What does your shelf pin guide look like ???
You don't mention using a template guide, which is
almost always used for this type operation....


Does your jig look like this ???

http://www.megproducts.com/basic-bore32.html

and how you do it:

http://www.megproducts.com/basicboringguide.html

wrote:

I am new at this so I don't know what to expect and I need some advice.
I know that this is woodworking and not precision stuff where you want
0.001 inch tolerance but I am getting some really bad results.

I am trying to drill some shelf pin holes using a PC plunge router with
a 1/4 inch carbide spiral bit, a 1/2 inch to 1/4 inch collet reducer,
and a shelf pin gulde. I clamp the guide to the work to make sure that
it doesn't move while plungeing the router, and I have cleaned the
collet holder and collet. Here are some measurements I made: the router
bit diameter is right on the money at -0.0005 inches. I used a dial
indicator to measure the wobble of a piece of drill rod to be 0.002
inches at a point 1.75 inches from the collet base, which corresponds to
the tip of the router bit when it is installed. This should give a hole
about 0.004 oversize, right? The holes actually measure about 0.005 to
0.007 oversize. No big deal, after all this is wood. The shelf pins
measure about 0.003 to 0.004 under size. So here is the problem; holes
too big and pins too small make for around 0.010 slop in the fit of the
pins. Is a loose fit like this normal or can I do something to get the
pins to fit better. I know that the pins will not fall out when the
shelfs are placed on them, but the very loose fit of the pins bothers
me. Should I worry about this or not?

I can actually drill a better fitting hole using a hand held drill and a
1/4 inch forstner bit, but then I lose the placement accuracy of the
guide. Any suggestions?

What is a normal value for router bit wobble? is 0.002 too large or is
it about normal?

Thanks for any advice.

Sloppy shelf pin holes: Help
 

Woodworker's hardware sells brass grommets made for 1/4" shelf pins, if
there's enough play in your holes to pound them in, you'd be set.

Rick

--
Rick Nagy
Johnstown, PA

- Remove nospam to email me
Be sure to check out my website at http://www.rickscabinetshop.com
wrote in message
...
I am new at this so I don't know what to expect and I need some advice.
I know that this is woodworking and not precision stuff where you want
0.001 inch tolerance but I am getting some really bad results.

I am trying to drill some shelf pin holes using a PC plunge router with
a 1/4 inch carbide spiral bit, a 1/2 inch to 1/4 inch collet reducer,
and a shelf pin gulde. I clamp the guide to the work to make sure that
it doesn't move while plungeing the router, and I have cleaned the
collet holder and collet. Here are some measurements I made: the router
bit diameter is right on the money at -0.0005 inches. I used a dial
indicator to measure the wobble of a piece of drill rod to be 0.002
inches at a point 1.75 inches from the collet base, which corresponds to
the tip of the router bit when it is installed. This should give a hole
about 0.004 oversize, right? The holes actually measure about 0.005 to
0.007 oversize. No big deal, after all this is wood. The shelf pins
measure about 0.003 to 0.004 under size. So here is the problem; holes
too big and pins too small make for around 0.010 slop in the fit of the
pins. Is a loose fit like this normal or can I do something to get the
pins to fit better. I know that the pins will not fall out when the
shelfs are placed on them, but the very loose fit of the pins bothers
me. Should I worry about this or not?

I can actually drill a better fitting hole using a hand held drill and a
1/4 inch forstner bit, but then I lose the placement accuracy of the
guide. Any suggestions?

What is a normal value for router bit wobble? is 0.002 too large or is
it about normal?

Thanks for any advice.

Sloppy shelf pin holes: Help
 

In article ,
wrote:
I am new at this so I don't know what to expect and I need some advice.
I know that this is woodworking and not precision stuff where you want
0.001 inch tolerance but I am getting some really bad results.

I am trying to drill some shelf pin holes using a PC plunge router with
a 1/4 inch carbide spiral bit, a 1/2 inch to 1/4 inch collet reducer,
and a shelf pin gulde. I clamp the guide to the work to make sure that
it doesn't move while plungeing the router, and I have cleaned the
collet holder and collet. Here are some measurements I made: the router
bit diameter is right on the money at -0.0005 inches. I used a dial
indicator to measure the wobble of a piece of drill rod to be 0.002
inches at a point 1.75 inches from the collet base, which corresponds to
the tip of the router bit when it is installed. This should give a hole
about 0.004 oversize, right? The holes actually measure about 0.005 to
0.007 oversize. No big deal, after all this is wood. The shelf pins
measure about 0.003 to 0.004 under size. So here is the problem; holes
too big and pins too small make for around 0.010 slop in the fit of the
pins. Is a loose fit like this normal or can I do something to get the
pins to fit better. I know that the pins will not fall out when the
shelfs are placed on them, but the very loose fit of the pins bothers
me. Should I worry about this or not?

I can actually drill a better fitting hole using a hand held drill and a
1/4 inch forstner bit, but then I lose the placement accuracy of the
guide. Any suggestions?

What is a normal value for router bit wobble? is 0.002 too large or is
it about normal?

Thanks for any advice.

Personally I would use a drill and home made guide or a piece of peg
board. I really really dislike using a router because of the noise and
can't imagine using one for dozens or hundreds of holes. For that
matter, I've come to the opinion that adjustable shelves are highly
overrated and haven't used them very much for a few years (Mostly when
requested^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H specified by SWMBO) Seems like the
adjustable shelf feature gets a one-time use over the life of the
piece.



Honestly, I have never taken a DI to a router to measure runout. So
far IME if I can't see it or feel it it's been acceptable.
A
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

Sloppy shelf pin holes: Help
 

Hi there another suggestion,
1- take one piece of 1/2" plywood 12" wide, about 36" long shorter if you
need it.
2- mark the center down the length of the board
3-mark on the center line about every 1" or so a line
4- drill holes with a speed bit the size of one of your bushings that you
know you will have for along time
5-rip the board in half that you just drilled, rip down the middle of the
holes you just drilled
6-creating 2 halves identical
7-clamp to board you want holes in for shelf pins on each side
8-place router with bushing on top of new template and use plunge mechanism
and slide down board, plunge , raise, slide down to next hole, plunge and go
at it.
9-fastest way I have found to make holes, simplest and most accurate.Not
often you get all that in one.
10-smile on your face
wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
I am new at this so I don't know what to expect and I need some advice.
I know that this is woodworking and not precision stuff where you want
0.001 inch tolerance but I am getting some really bad results.

I am trying to drill some shelf pin holes using a PC plunge router with
a 1/4 inch carbide spiral bit, a 1/2 inch to 1/4 inch collet reducer,
and a shelf pin gulde. I clamp the guide to the work to make sure that
it doesn't move while plungeing the router, and I have cleaned the
collet holder and collet. Here are some measurements I made: the router
bit diameter is right on the money at -0.0005 inches. I used a dial
indicator to measure the wobble of a piece of drill rod to be 0.002
inches at a point 1.75 inches from the collet base, which corresponds to
the tip of the router bit when it is installed. This should give a hole
about 0.004 oversize, right? The holes actually measure about 0.005 to
0.007 oversize. No big deal, after all this is wood. The shelf pins
measure about 0.003 to 0.004 under size. So here is the problem; holes
too big and pins too small make for around 0.010 slop in the fit of the
pins. Is a loose fit like this normal or can I do something to get the
pins to fit better. I know that the pins will not fall out when the
shelfs are placed on them, but the very loose fit of the pins bothers
me. Should I worry about this or not?

I can actually drill a better fitting hole using a hand held drill and a
1/4 inch forstner bit, but then I lose the placement accuracy of the
guide. Any suggestions?

What is a normal value for router bit wobble? is 0.002 too large or is
it about normal?

Thanks for any advice.

Personally I would use a drill and home made guide or a piece of peg
board. I really really dislike using a router because of the noise and
can't imagine using one for dozens or hundreds of holes. For that
matter, I've come to the opinion that adjustable shelves are highly
overrated and haven't used them very much for a few years (Mostly when
requested^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H specified by SWMBO) Seems like the
adjustable shelf feature gets a one-time use over the life of the
piece.



Honestly, I have never taken a DI to a router to measure runout. So
far IME if I can't see it or feel it it's been acceptable.
A
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

Sloppy shelf pin holes: Help
 

wrote:

holes too big and pins too small make for around 0.010 slop in the
fit of the pins. Is a loose fit like this normal or can I do
something to get the pins to fit better. I know that the pins will
not fall out when the shelfs are placed on them, but the very loose
fit of the pins bothers me. Should I worry about this or not?

No

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Sloppy shelf pin holes: Help
 

On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 04:03:26 -0600, ()
wrote:
For that
matter, I've come to the opinion that adjustable shelves are highly
overrated and haven't used them very much for a few years (Mostly when
requested^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H specified by SWMBO) Seems like the
adjustable shelf feature gets a one-time use over the life of the
piece.

Amen, brother! In my house, it usually goes like this:

Me: "Dear, I'm building a new cabinet for the basement."

SWMBO: "Will it have adjustable shelves?"

Me: (after being through a different version of this conversation)
"Yes, dear. Of course, dear."

SWMBO: "Great!"

I build the cabinet with adjustable shelves, placing the shelves
exactly where I would have placed non-adjustable shelves.

The shelves are never "adjusted" again.