"Jim Mc Namara" wrote in message
.com...
But then again . . .

I live in Texas and since we're going through a re-districting battle down
here - maybe they'll have Houston in the Gulf of Mexico before it's all
said
and done and we won't have to worry about it! LOL!

Naw,,, another good rain like the one 2 years ago and the Gulf Of Mexico
will come here.

Doug Winterburn responds:


The only politics in that statement is an attribution of probable political
party.

You find that offensive? Mistaken?

Baseless.

Ah. OK. I'd see if I can dig up that business card and call the guy and ask if
he's STILL a Republican, but the card is probably tossed, along with a lot of
other stuff that picked up aromas in my home office. I just figured since he'd
voted for Shrub, he was Republican, because I sure as hell don't know any
Democrats who did.


Charlie Self

If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave
it to.
Dorothy Parker

"David B. Chamberlain" wrote in message
...
If you go to the SawStop website, there is a contact page. That gives
you
an email address of


Everyone should send them a polite email telling them that you do not
appreciate a private company using a government agency to extort money
from
private citizens. Maybe a few thousand emails will help educate them.


--
David Chamberlain


Disclaimer: I ain't gonna get political, and I find this kind of "marketing"
strategy offensive.
However...

Given the climate of personal security in the country--e.g., lots of people
fall back on perceived "safety" as the reason for buying an SUV--SawStop is
very clever. This is necessarily a SWAG, but if they can get before a
government committee or into court, they can force saw manufacturers to
appear and defend the safety equipment presently on saws and explain why it
is "good enough." When it comes out that a high percentage (90?) of
woodworkers remove the clunky blade guards and spliters now installed as
original equipment, SawStop can step forward with a working system that they
can demonstrate as being safer and non-removable. Again, this is just a
hunch.
One probable strategy is to lease SawStop's technology to existing
manufacturers rather than market their own saws; the recent installation on
a Powermatic may have been a demo of their system's effectiveness and
practicality.
Or they can settle for a "go away" payment from the manufacturers.
They certainly won't be able to sell their product on its safety merits
alone. The auto manufacturers found out a long time ago that safety doesn't
sell and they didn't install belts, air bags, etc. until they were forced.
IMHO, this was a good thing for the public, and so is the SawStop.

Bob

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:37:41 +0000, Charlie Self wrote:


Ah. OK. I'd see if I can dig up that business card and call the guy and ask if
he's STILL a Republican, but the card is probably tossed, along with a lot of
other stuff that picked up aromas in my home office. I just figured since he'd
voted for Shrub, he was Republican, because I sure as hell don't know any
Democrats who did.

His sales pitch or business card trumpets his politiacl affiliations and
voting record?

-Doug

"Henry E Schaffer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ernie Jurick wrote:
...
Yeah, if the blade is moving at 4000rpm and the reaction time is 5
milliseconds, all those sharp little teeth make a full revolution+.

4000rpm = 66.7 revolutions/second.
5ms = .005 second

66.7 x .005 = .3 revolutions.

Still very unpleasant - but not a full revolution.

It's a lot easier, cheaper and less painful to be careful. :-)

Of course - but even careful folks can have accidents.

Thanks, Henry. Math is not my strong point.
-- Ernie

"Bob Schmall" wrote in message
...


Disclaimer: I ain't gonna get political, and I find this kind of
"marketing"
strategy offensive.
However...

Given the climate of personal security in the country--e.g., lots of
people
fall back on perceived "safety" as the reason for buying an SUV--SawStop
is
very clever. This is necessarily a SWAG, but if they can get before a
government committee or into court, they can force saw manufacturers to
appear and defend the safety equipment presently on saws and explain why
it
is "good enough." When it comes out that a high percentage (90?) of
woodworkers remove the clunky blade guards and spliters now installed as
original equipment, SawStop can step forward with a working system that
they
can demonstrate as being safer and non-removable. Again, this is just a
hunch.
One probable strategy is to lease SawStop's technology to existing
manufacturers rather than market their own saws; the recent installation
on
a Powermatic may have been a demo of their system's effectiveness and
practicality.
Or they can settle for a "go away" payment from the manufacturers.
They certainly won't be able to sell their product on its safety merits
alone. The auto manufacturers found out a long time ago that safety
doesn't
sell and they didn't install belts, air bags, etc. until they were forced.
IMHO, this was a good thing for the public, and so is the SawStop.

The auto industries did not succumb to government pressure, but to pressure
from insurance companies, which were losing a fortune in jackpot jury
awards. Insurers threatened to triple insurance
premiums for non-safety-equipped cars, and the auto industry knuckled under.
-- Ernie

Sawstop does nothing to stop binding and kickback, so you're talking apples
and oranges. Not that it wouldn't convince a politician, though....

"Bob Schmall" wrote in message
...
This is necessarily a SWAG, but if they can get before a
government committee or into court, they can force saw manufacturers to
appear and defend the safety equipment presently on saws and explain why
it
is "good enough." When it comes out that a high percentage (90?) of
woodworkers remove the clunky blade guards and spliters now installed as
original equipment, SawStop can step forward with a working system that
they
can demonstrate as being safer and non-removable. Again, this is just a
hunch.

His sales pitch or business card trumpets his politiacl affiliations and
voting record?

Read what I wrote, Doug. I wanted the card to call him, not as an indicator of
his politics.

Charlie Self

If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave
it to.
Dorothy Parker

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:42:38 +0000, Charlie Self wrote:

Read what I wrote, Doug. I wanted the card to call him, not as an indicator of
his politics.

When you wrote:

"I'd see if I can dig up that business card and call the guy and ask if
he's STILL a Republican, but the card is probably tossed, along with a lot of
other stuff that picked up aromas in my home office. I just figured since he'd
voted for Shrub, he was Republican, because I sure as hell don't know any
Democrats who did."

It indicated to me that somehow you knew this fellow was a Republican and
that he the voted for Bush. That's why I also asked if not the card if
that info wasn't part of his pitch. I was aware from what you wrote that the card would
allow you to call him to inquire of any changes in his political leanings.


Charlie Self

If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave
it to.
Dorothy Parker

I wonder if DP was referring to these folks in the last article:

http://www.christianbailey.com/2002/06/25.html

-Doug

"Kevin Craig" wrote in message

I really don't care to be bitten by 12 teeth, and don't see any
particular safety advantage to a SawStop-equipped saw vice a standard
saw. Third of a revolution, full revolution, ten revolutions... any
would do serious, perhaps irrepairable, damage to a digit or hand.

A lot of unknows come into play here. I agree that falling from the 29th
floor or the 32nd floor is not going to make a huge difference in the
outcome, but 12 teeth versus a full speed blade may be the difference of a
slicing afinger or lopping off a whole hand.

I've not studies table saw accidents so I don't know the probability of the
various injuries and what may be prevented. Do you?



So SawStop wants to add $150+ to the cost of saws without adding any
measurable safety, but while adding complexity that could even
*decrease* safety.

I think the resultand safety can be measured; studies would have to be (or
already have) to be done. What exactly do you mean by complexity that can
decrease safety? From what I've seen, the complexity is hidden and is not
obstructive to the operator. What have you seen different?
Ed

In article . com,
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Kevin Craig" wrote in message

I really don't care to be bitten by 12 teeth, and don't see any
particular safety advantage to a SawStop-equipped saw vice a standard
saw. Third of a revolution, full revolution, ten revolutions... any
would do serious, perhaps irrepairable, damage to a digit or hand.

A lot of unknows come into play here. I agree that falling from the 29th
floor or the 32nd floor is not going to make a huge difference in the
outcome, but 12 teeth versus a full speed blade may be the difference of a
slicing afinger or lopping off a whole hand.

Unless they're using a clamping/braking system, that 1/3 of a rotation
*will* be at full speed. Any type of pin or tooth-catching pawl will
stop the blade instantly from the moment it's inserted into the
appropriate hole. A brake will slow the blade with decreasing
velocity.

I understand the SawStop system causes an instant stop, but there is
naturally some delay between trigger and stop. Between those two,
there's 1/3 of a blade rotation at full speed.


I've not studies table saw accidents so I don't know the probability of the
various injuries and what may be prevented. Do you?

No I don't. Neither do the folks at SawStop. Maybe God does, but the
rest of us don't have the gift of omiscience. No one can predict the
many variables that might be in play when a blade contacts skin.

Kevin

Tchswood asks:

Wanna bet that the owners of Sawstop are registered Republicans with a
conservative bent?

Charlie Self

What happened to less governmental interference, more individual
responsibility, "rugged individualism" etc.?

Just asking


Check out "corporate welfare" some day. I interviewed a small factory owner
some years ago, and got a lesson in how big and small companies take from the
government and, sometimes, even do a payback. It was the "sometimes" that
bothered him, so he refused any corporate welfare for his company (managed to
run it for upwards of 40 years with never a lay off, increasing in size from
about 100 employees to almost 400 in that time). Check out Enron. Check out Ms.
Stewart. Check out...the beat goes on.

Too many people espouse conservatism and then expect it to apply only to the
other guy. Very similar to most other things in today's life.

Charlie Self

Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child.
Dan Quayle

I've not studies table saw accidents so I don't know the probability of
the
various injuries and what may be prevented. Do you?

No I don't. Neither do the folks at SawStop. Maybe God does, but the
rest of us don't have the gift of omiscience. No one can predict the
many variables that might be in play when a blade contacts skin.

Kevin

You can read in their petition that they expect a gov't funded study to find
out more about table saw injuries. It is nice when you can get the
government to do your research for you.

-Jack

In article ,
leah said:
....

Wanna bet that the owners of Sawstop are registered Republicans with a
conservative bent?


Then, in article ,
leah turns around and says:
....

It really doesn't pay to use political labels in such situations, unless you
have an absolute love of being wrong 70 or 80% of the time.


We must suppose you don't mind being wrong 70 or 80% of the time then,
mustn't we?

I prefer not to opine on subjects I'm ignorant of and let people wonder
whether I'm a fool, rather than to commit myself and remove doubt. But
to each, his own, I guess. Thanks for the candor.

--
Cheers,

Abe

Abe Froman foams:


I prefer not to opine on subjects I'm ignorant of and let people wonder
whether I'm a fool, rather than to commit myself and remove doubt. But
to each, his own, I guess. Thanks for the candor.

FO, as our British cousins say.

Charlie Self

I think we agree, the past is over.
George W. Bush