I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

-wylie

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

-wylie


To be honest with you here, you cannot buy a good jig saw or circle saw for
that kind of money much less a tool that normally costs 5 to 10 times more
unless you find a good deal on a used contractors TS.

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

-wylie


To be honest with you here, you cannot buy a good jig saw or circle saw
for that kind of money much less a tool that normally costs 5 to 10 times
more unless you find a good deal on a used contractors TS.

While I agree with you on the tablesaw, you can certainly get good circular
and jig saws for $100....

You can do a lot with a good hand-held circular saw, a good blade, and a
straight-edge. For a "good" one (Makita, Milwakee, Dewalt, etc) you might
still be over $100, but I can't imagine anything close to a decent table saw
for the same price.

Clint

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

-wylie

In article .com, wrote:
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under.

Good luck with that. :-)

Seriously, you need to look at used equipment. You won't find anything new,
that cheap, that's worth a damn. Keep an eye on ads in your local newspaper;
let your friends and neighbors know you're looking for one; watch the bulletin
board at work and at church; check garage sales; check eBay... but forget
about buying a passable table saw new for under $100.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

wrote:
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

The Blowes benchtop saw has those annoying tabs in the miter slot. You
do not want those under any circumstances. You say you want to build a
miter sled.

The Shopmaster is serviceable, but the rip capacity sucks big time.

Just take one step up from the very bottom of the benchtop saw market,
and you'll be OK. For $150-$170, you can get a saw with a more powerful
motor, bigger, flatter table, and more rip capacity. There's a Ryobi
saw in this range with a sliding miter table and 20" rip capacity. I
have the Delta TS220LS and am pleased with it, except the throat insert
blows goats.

Again, the very bottom of the line Shopmaster does work, but it's
severely limiting compared to what you can get at the next price point
up.

"wylie asked"
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under.
"Leon"
To be honest with you here, you cannot buy a good jig saw or circle saw
for that kind of money much less a tool that normally costs 5 to 10 times
more unless you find a good deal on a used contractors TS.

"Locutus" While I agree with you on the tablesaw, you can certainly get
good circular and jig saws for $100....

If you are talking about new then Leon's dead right. - The only way to get a
new on for less is to buy it from the guys selling from the back of his van.

The OP can get some decent stuff used if he is patient and willing to watch
local yard sales, craiglists or auctions. If he gets suckered into buying
some piece of junk from Harbor Fright, he'll soon regret it.

Dave

wrote:
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under.
snip

You can't get there from here.

Lew

In article .com, wrote:
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts...

Cutting corners is what you'll be doing, IMO :-(

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Boy did I chuckle. Porch steps and shelving. Ok. Trebuchets and
catapults got me going.

On 26 Sep 2006 12:19:42 -0700, wrote:

I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

-wylie

There are always people wanting to upgrade their saws. Why not post a
table saw wanted thread?

You don't want a new saw that sells for $100.

wrote:
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

-wylie

I know in Virginia we have a paper called the Trading Post. Its like a
huge garage sale w/out going to the garage sale. Also find a local
woodworking guild, they could point you to a good used saw. Please stay
away from the $100 saw, take lessons learned from others and myself.
Stay away !

wrote:
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

-wylie

I know in Virginia we have a paper called the Trading Post. Its like a
huge garage sale w/out going to the garage sale. Also find a local
woodworking guild, they could point you to a good used saw. Please stay
away from the $100 saw, take lessons learned from others and myself.
Stay away !

Also check out the craigslist for your local area, and look for local
"forsale" newsgroups.

Clint

"mojodc3" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

-wylie

I know in Virginia we have a paper called the Trading Post. Its like a
huge garage sale w/out going to the garage sale. Also find a local
woodworking guild, they could point you to a good used saw. Please stay
away from the $100 saw, take lessons learned from others and myself.
Stay away !

On 26 Sep 2006 12:19:42 -0700, wrote:

I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

-wylie

For the stuff you plan on doing, (I build trebs too) I'd start with a low end
CMS (compound miter saw)
here's an affordable one at your favorite borg*g*
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...FCE&lpage=none

I was planning on a table saw for my shop when I stumbled on a used Radial Arm
Saw for $50 at a garage sale... between my CMS and RAS, I get along pretty
well..

If you want to limit your spending, think smaller... I'd pick a CMS over a
benchtop table saw most times...
Also, making a rolling stand with folding wings is a fun project and you'll
still be using that stand after replacing your CMS and buying a real table
saw... YMWV
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:37:24 GMT, Jim Behning
wrote:

Boy did I chuckle. Porch steps and shelving. Ok. Trebuchets and
catapults got me going.

Be nice, Jim... lol
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/trebs.htm


Some of us just like to hurl once in a while... without drinking.. *g*


Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

wrote:
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

-wylie

The cheap end of the table saw market is also the most unsafe. When I
first became interested in woodworking, I bought a contractors saw at
Home Depot for $159. It was unstable, the fence was horrendous,
kickback was inevitable, it stalled whenver I needed to rip some wood,
etc. I appreciate that $1,000 or more for a decent table saw with a
cast iron table is a big bite. But I have learned that the cheap stuff
is also the most unsafe stuff. And these things are't toys.

mac davis wrote:

Some of us just like to hurl once in a while... without drinking.. *g*



And you thought you'd have a problem getting your logs over the border...

warbler wrote:

The cheap end of the table saw market is also the most unsafe. When I
first became interested in woodworking, I bought a contractors saw at
Home Depot for $159. It was unstable, the fence was horrendous,
kickback was inevitable, it stalled whenver I needed to rip some wood,
etc.

Good lord. What saw was that? I've got a benchtop TS that came in at
about that price, and after proper setup, it has none of those
problems. The blade and fence were out of whack from the factory, but
once those were adjusted, it has never given me a problem.

The only safety issues I have a The splitter/guard is a pain,
prompting me to seldom use it; and the throat plate is crap, which can
cause problems on very thin rips.

I really can't agree with all these posts that say a $100 Shopmaster
saw is useless. Granted, it is only what it is, but it's far from
useless. And I can't agree that a circ saw is any substitute for even a
cheap benchtop TS. For cutting big panels, yes, OK. For repeatable,
accurate cuts of small to medium-sized parts, no way, not even close.

And there are $200-ish saws that get you into the neighborhood of
contractor saw capability for 30%-40% of the price. They are nowhere
near as durable or pleasant to use as the real thing, but for us
weekend warriors, there is a *big* difference between $180 and $580,
and if you happen to have the $180 in your pocket, the benchtop saw
will get you cutting today. Then one day you can spring for a real saw.

There are people out there making houses full of cabinets and furniture
with these little saws. Some of them really aren't bad.

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:47:27 GMT, B A R R Y wrote:

mac davis wrote:

Some of us just like to hurl once in a while... without drinking.. *g*



And you thought you'd have a problem getting your logs over the border...

hmm... good idea, Barry... too bad the shop is packed... damn!

Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

Clint wrote:
Also check out the craigslist for your local area, and look for local
"forsale" newsgroups.

I'll second that suggestion for Craigslist. Seems like, at least
in my area, there's always someone getting rid of some type of
Craftsman table saw or radial arm saw, and often in the $50-$150
price range. I've never owned a Craftsman saw, so I don't about
the quality of them, but presumably a used one that hasn't been
abused would be a decent tool

--

If you want to reply via email, change the obvious words to numbers and
remove ".invalid".

"Locutus" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

-wylie


To be honest with you here, you cannot buy a good jig saw or circle saw
for that kind of money much less a tool that normally costs 5 to 10 times
more unless you find a good deal on a used contractors TS.

While I agree with you on the tablesaw, you can certainly get good
circular and jig saws for $100....

You might be able to get a usable circular saw, but not a decent jigsaw--not
one that will give the nearly planer-smooth cuts that a Bosch can deliver.
At least not new, you might be able to find a used Bosch for under $100. I
spent better than 200 bucks for my first Bosch 20 years ago and the first
time a cut a board with it I realized that I had spent wisely. There is no
other portable power tool in which the difference between "cheap" and "good"
is so drastic as jigsaws.

wrote:
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

-wylie

while most of the posts say it isn't possible, I'll give you a solution
that can be summer up in two words.

buy used.

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:19:42 -0700, wylie72 wrote:

I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

-wylie

Wylie -- Keep yer eyes peeled for a Craftsman 10" table saw at the garage
& basement sales around you. They can be had for $100-150 or so. They have
cast iron tops with steel extensions. Try to wiggle the blade arbor ...
you shouldn't be able to. If you can, leave you money in your pocket and
keep walking. The bearings / arbor are shot. They can be fixed, but unless
the owner gave you the saw free and hauled it over to your house for gas
money, the repair would not make financial sense.

Plan on spending a 'fun & educational' day adjusting the trunnion so that
the blade is parrallel to the miter slots and part of another hour getting
the fence to match the same side of the same miter slot. Hard to be too
fussy here ...

You will get all kinds of kick-back from the list about buying this saw
.... but not from the saw if you tune it properly as suggested above and
then use it following standard safe technique.

AFTER you get it properly adjusted (the most likely reason the former
owner is getting rid of it!) plan to spend cash money on a couple of good
blades ... the Dewalt 40 tooth runs about $40 and will give you a -very-
nice cut. Spend more, get more ... but I'd have to see some mighty
compelling reason ON PAPER AND ON WOOD before I busted loose with as much
as $60 for a TS blade.

I have one of the Rigid 10" bench saws and it works okay mounted in a
wheelbarrow for outdoors stuff, but the table is too small, in my opinion,
for safety if doing anything beyond short cross-cutting. It will handle a
6" wide piece ... but I am not comfortable feeding it one.

On the Rigid the blade ... the part that rips flesh from your fingers and
your hands from your arms ... is pretty much the only part that is normal
sized. Everything else reminds me of the sort of saw used for making
houses -- for Barbie dolls.

The above are only my subjective opinions. I'ved never owned a better saw
than the Craftsman so I will admit to not knowing what I am missing. But I
can do good work with my Craftsman and neither my rosewood nor my pine can
read the label. It's probably not a good saw for high production or long
rips in thick pieces of ironwood ... but you aren't doing production in
any sort of wood. It's too loud to leave running all day ... so (duh!)
turn it off when you aren't actually using it.

Adding a 'la-de-da' fence might be a worthwhile upgrade at some point
intermediate between the time you throw the Craftsman over a bridge and
the day you buy a saw with a landing deck for a table and 3 miles of
wiring to power a whole bank of sparkely lights. ;-)

By the time you add the fancy-dancy fence, you'll know why you need it and
you'll have plenty of both time and experience to help you buy that
landing deck, if you EVER feel the need to. It is my contention that
paying attention to the stock Craftsman fence will make you a more skilled
sawyer than having a fence that does not even ask you to pay attention to
your business.

Bill

wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under.

Keep an eye on estate sales, every now and then a 10" craftsman will show up
in that price range. Be sure the fence, blade guard and miter gauge are
still with the saw. Hold out for a belt drive. RM~

PS, An estate sale is a sale when somebody else sells somebody else's stuff
and they don't have a clue as to what it's worth. I recently paid $20 for
a complete Dayton 6X48 belt/disc sander with stand and $30 for a new
(still in box) 16" variable speed Delta scroll saw at an estate sale.

Rob Mills wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under.

Keep an eye on estate sales, every now and then a 10" craftsman will show up
in that price range. Be sure the fence, blade guard and miter gauge are
still with the saw. Hold out for a belt drive. RM~

PS, An estate sale is a sale when somebody else sells somebody else's stuff
and they don't have a clue as to what it's worth. I recently paid $20 for
a complete Dayton 6X48 belt/disc sander with stand and $30 for a new
(still in box) 16" variable speed Delta scroll saw at an estate sale.

Yesterday I attended a guy's stuff auction (vehicles and tools) in
upstate New Hampshire. I scored a router and two pad sanders for $40
total. My brother scored a milling machine for $25. Getting that into
the pickup was interesting. Couple of 10" Craftsman table saws went for
well under $100. A nice 10" Royobi table saw went for $25-$50. Lots of
Snap-On and Greelee stuff. Lots of pure junk too. Four nice fiberglass
boats in the 19 to 23 foot range went for $1200 each. An 01 Deville
didn't sell cause no one raised the reserve price of $4000. You might
look around for an auction place in your area.

David Starr

"David Starr" wrote in message
...


Yesterday I attended a guy's stuff auction (vehicles and tools) in
upstate New Hampshire. I scored a router and two pad sanders for $40
total. My brother scored a milling machine for $25.

Now that's my kind of shopping. Did they give green stamps?
RM~

boorite wrote:
wrote:
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

The Blowes benchtop saw has those annoying tabs in the miter slot. You
do not want those under any circumstances. You say you want to build a
miter sled.

The Shopmaster is serviceable, but the rip capacity sucks big time.

Just take one step up from the very bottom of the benchtop saw market,
and you'll be OK. For $150-$170, you can get a saw with a more powerful
motor, bigger, flatter table, and more rip capacity. There's a Ryobi
saw in this range with a sliding miter table and 20" rip capacity. I
have the Delta TS220LS and am pleased with it, except the throat insert
blows goats.

Again, the very bottom of the line Shopmaster does work, but it's
severely limiting compared to what you can get at the next price point
up.

Thanks for the help. I ended up with a $180 table saw from Lowes.
Once I got there in person I just couldn't fathom buying the $100 saws
- way too flimsy. While what I got isn't much better I really was just
looking for some straight cuts and to spare my arm from the handsaw.
Really fine accuracy and ripping big lumber is way beyond my needs.

After a fair bit of research I was able to learn how to get the blade
cutting square. And my second attempt at a miter sled worked well. My
son and I banged out a 14" mangonel Sunday just for fun (i.e. hurling
Barbie dolls) and the base of a 4' arm trebuchet is started.

-wylie

wrote:
boorite wrote:
wrote:
I'm a novice to woodworking looking for a passable starter table saw in
the $100 range and under. Something servicable to start with. I was
looking at Lowes Task Force BT2500W and ShopMaster SM200L. I will be
doing mostly miter cuts and plan on buildng a miter sled but I want the
versatility of a table saw. Projects will be simple homeowner stuff
(porch steps and shelving) and some recreational items (hurlers like
trebuchets and catapults).

The Blowes benchtop saw has those annoying tabs in the miter slot. You
do not want those under any circumstances. You say you want to build a
miter sled.

The Shopmaster is serviceable, but the rip capacity sucks big time.

Just take one step up from the very bottom of the benchtop saw market,
and you'll be OK. For $150-$170, you can get a saw with a more powerful
motor, bigger, flatter table, and more rip capacity. There's a Ryobi
saw in this range with a sliding miter table and 20" rip capacity. I
have the Delta TS220LS and am pleased with it, except the throat insert
blows goats.

Again, the very bottom of the line Shopmaster does work, but it's
severely limiting compared to what you can get at the next price point
up.

Thanks for the help. I ended up with a $180 table saw from Lowes.
Once I got there in person I just couldn't fathom buying the $100 saws
- way too flimsy. While what I got isn't much better I really was just
looking for some straight cuts and to spare my arm from the handsaw.
Really fine accuracy and ripping big lumber is way beyond my needs.

After a fair bit of research I was able to learn how to get the blade
cutting square. And my second attempt at a miter sled worked well. My
son and I banged out a 14" mangonel Sunday just for fun (i.e. hurling
Barbie dolls) and the base of a 4' arm trebuchet is started.

-wylie


After thinking about this a bit more, I wanted to explain why I didn't
go with the used option that seemed to be the consensus. Basically, I
know very little about what I'm getting into here right now. I would
not know the first thing to look for in a used table saw - any warning
signs of failure pending or of over use. By buying new I at least have
a return policy if I get a lemon.

Let me do a computer analogy here if I may. I work with computers by
trade, and am experienced enough that I've been building my own from
used parts for several years now. But when someone asks me what to
buy, I tell them they should spend $300 or $2000. $300 will take care
of a casual user, internet, email, Office, etc without paying for
capacity they will never use. $2000 will satisfy a power user - 3D
online games, graphical design, etc. I can take a cursory look at a
used computer and know what it is worth and if it has any problems, but
it took a long time to get to that point.

In respects to woodworking, I'm just starting to feel my way around and
don't expect to need that much capacity. With several years experience
under my belt and a much bigger garage I'll be ready for $800-$1500 saw
with a $80 blade and will know what to look for. In the meantime a
P.O.S. model 1 will suit my needs.

That being said, if anyone would care to share some insight in what to
look for in used woodworking gear...

-wylie

In article . com, wrote:

After thinking about this a bit more, I wanted to explain why I didn't
go with the used option that seemed to be the consensus. Basically, I
know very little about what I'm getting into here right now. I would
not know the first thing to look for in a used table saw - any warning
signs of failure pending or of over use.

Then take someone with you who *does* know what to look for.

By buying new I at least have
a return policy if I get a lemon.

The point you're missing is that any table saw you can buy new for under a
hundred bucks is guaranteed to be a lemon.
[snip]

In respects to woodworking, I'm just starting to feel my way around and
don't expect to need that much capacity. With several years experience
under my belt and a much bigger garage I'll be ready for $800-$1500 saw
with a $80 blade and will know what to look for.

I don't think anybody has suggested that you should buy an $800 saw, let alone
one costing twice that. But you *should* expect to spend a third to half that,
or close to it, on a new saw if you want to get anything decent. Or one to two
hundred on a used one.

You also don't need to spend eighty bucks on a blade. However, you will *not*
get a good 10" blade for ten bucks, either, and it *does* matter. All other
things being equal, a good blade on a mediocre saw will produce better results
than a mediocre blade on a good saw -- although no blade is capable of
producing anything better than mediocre results on a poor saw (which is all
you'll get for a hundred bucks new).

Expect to spend forty dollars, or more, for a good blade.

In the meantime a
P.O.S. model 1 will suit my needs.

No, it won't. A POS will be frustrating (and possibly dangerous) to use, and
you won't get good results from it. If you can't afford decent equipment, it's
better to take up some other hobby. This may seem harsh, but it's reality.

That being said, if anyone would care to share some insight in what to
look for in used woodworking gear...

IMO, you should look for a saw that originally cost a few hundred bucks new
and is being sold by a hobby woodworker who has just upgraded to a larger,
better saw. Don't look at anything being sold by a professional woodworking
shop (unless at a bankruptcy auction): if a pro is getting rid of it, that
means it's worn out.

Specific things to look for:
- Craftsman brand. They're much maligned, and unjustly so IMHO. They're *not*
top-of-the-line professional-quality woodworking machines, sure, but they're
not intended to be, either. They *are* very good starter saws. A used
Craftsman 10" saw, if in good condition (see below) would be ideal. But don't
buy Craftsman blades -- those are much maligned, too, and *justly* so. Ditto
Black and Decker.
- With the saw unplugged, grasp the blade and try to wiggle it side-to-side
or up and down. If you feel any more than the slightest trace of play, look
elsewhere.
- With the saw still unplugged, spin the blade by hand. Does it spin smoothly,
without any grinding, scraping, or rumbling sounds? If it's rough, or makes
abnormal noise, look elsewhere.
- Plug the saw in and turn it on. Does the motor come up to speed rapidly and
quietly? If it makes labors, or makes abnormal noises, look elsewhere.
- Look at the table. If it's cast aluminum, look elsewhe that'll leave
marks on the wood that can be a PITA to remove. If it's cast iron, look for
rust. The table should be smooth and shiny. Anything more than a trace of rust
is a sign of a saw that hasn't been well cared for. Look elsewhere.
- Check the fit of the miter gauge bar in the miter slots. A sloppy fit does
*not* mean you avoid the saw, but it *does* mean you'll be spending more money
later (on a better miter gauge) when your skills improve.
- Lock the rip fence down, grasp the rear (far) end of it, and try to wiggle
it from side to side. You shouldn't feel much play here.

That's all I can come up with at the moment. I'm sure others will have more to
add, too, but at least that's a start.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:

Specific things to look for:

Good list Doug. I'd add one thing. Check the distance from the blade to the
miter slots front and back of the blade. First with the blade at 90 degrees,
then at 45. If the difference is greater than .01", go look elsewhere.
Something is twisted.

The problem can sometimes be fixed, but it's nothing a beginner should want to
tackle.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

In article , wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Specific things to look for:

Good list Doug. I'd add one thing. Check the distance from the blade to the
miter slots front and back of the blade. First with the blade at 90 degrees,
then at 45. If the difference is greater than .01", go look elsewhere.
Something is twisted.

To clarify: he's referring to the difference between the 90-deg and 45-deg
tilt measurements, not the difference between fore and aft measurements at any
particular tilt setting. A consistent difference between fore and aft
measurements is still a problem, but it's usually very easy to fix.

The problem can sometimes be fixed, but it's nothing a beginner should want to
tackle.

Ya know, Larry, when I was putting together my list, I had the nagging feeling
in the back of my mind that I was overlooking something important, that was
easy to check.

That was it.

Thanks.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Specific things to look for:

Good list Doug. I'd add one thing. Check the distance from the blade to the
miter slots front and back of the blade. First with the blade at 90 degrees,
then at 45. If the difference is greater than .01", go look elsewhere.
Something is twisted.

To clarify: he's referring to the difference between the 90-deg and 45-deg
tilt measurements, not the difference between fore and aft measurements at any
particular tilt setting. A consistent difference between fore and aft
measurements is still a problem, but it's usually very easy to fix.

The problem can sometimes be fixed, but it's nothing a beginner should want to
tackle.

Ya know, Larry, when I was putting together my list, I had the nagging feeling
in the back of my mind that I was overlooking something important, that was
easy to check.

That was it.

Thanks.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Thanks all for the information. One additional question: What are you
using to measure down to .01" ? I'm guessing a measuring tape is not
that accurate?

-wylie

In article . com, "Wylie" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

To clarify: he's referring to the difference between the 90-deg and 45-deg
tilt measurements, not the difference between fore and aft measurements at
any particular tilt setting. A consistent difference between fore and aft
measurements is still a problem, but it's usually very easy to fix.

Let me clarify further, since I didn't state that quite the way I meant to.

1. Measure the distance from the miter slot to the blade at the front and back
of the blade, with the blade at 90 degrees. If they're not the same, that's
only a minor problem in most cases. Don't worry about it. Yet.

2. Tilt the blade to 45 degrees and repeat the measurements. These will not be
the same as the measurements taken in Step 1; this is expected. If they differ
from each other, that's still only a minor problem in most cases. But if the
difference in Step 2 is different from the difference in Step 1 by more than
0.010", that's a much larger problem, and, as Larry said, nothing a beginner
should want to tackle.

Thanks all for the information. One additional question: What are you
using to measure down to .01" ? I'm guessing a measuring tape is not
that accurate?

Indeed it's not. The best way to take measurements like that is with a dial
indicator mounted to the miter gauge, but if you don't have a dial indicator,
here's the poor man's method:

Position the miter gauge adjacent to the front of the blade. Press the bar of
the miter gauge firmly against the side of the miter slot nearer the blade (to
eliminate looseness in the fit of the bar in the slot from affecting the
accuracy of the measurements). Clamp a sharpened pencil to the miter gauge so
that it's almost, but not quite, touching the blade. Measure the distance
between the pencil point and the blade with automotive feeler gauges. Move the
miter gauge to the rear of the blade, taking care to press the bar against the
side of the slot again, as described above, and repeat the measurement.

Compare the fore and aft measurements, and you're done. You don't care what
the measurements actually are. The important part is the difference between
them, and whether that difference *changes* when the blade is tilted from 90
degrees to 45 degrees.

You can get a good set of flat feeler gauges at Sears for five bucks:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...id=00999008000

Any auto parts store will have them, too, for about the same price.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com, "Wylie" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

To clarify: he's referring to the difference between the 90-deg and 45-deg
tilt measurements, not the difference between fore and aft measurements at
any particular tilt setting. A consistent difference between fore and aft
measurements is still a problem, but it's usually very easy to fix.

Let me clarify further, since I didn't state that quite the way I meant to.

1. Measure the distance from the miter slot to the blade at the front and back
of the blade, with the blade at 90 degrees. If they're not the same, that's
only a minor problem in most cases. Don't worry about it. Yet.

2. Tilt the blade to 45 degrees and repeat the measurements. These will not be
the same as the measurements taken in Step 1; this is expected. If they differ
from each other, that's still only a minor problem in most cases. But if the
difference in Step 2 is different from the difference in Step 1 by more than
0.010", that's a much larger problem, and, as Larry said, nothing a beginner
should want to tackle.

Thanks all for the information. One additional question: What are you
using to measure down to .01" ? I'm guessing a measuring tape is not
that accurate?

Indeed it's not. The best way to take measurements like that is with a dial
indicator mounted to the miter gauge, but if you don't have a dial indicator,
here's the poor man's method:

Position the miter gauge adjacent to the front of the blade. Press the bar of
the miter gauge firmly against the side of the miter slot nearer the blade (to
eliminate looseness in the fit of the bar in the slot from affecting the
accuracy of the measurements). Clamp a sharpened pencil to the miter gauge so
that it's almost, but not quite, touching the blade. Measure the distance
between the pencil point and the blade with automotive feeler gauges. Move the
miter gauge to the rear of the blade, taking care to press the bar against the
side of the slot again, as described above, and repeat the measurement.

Compare the fore and aft measurements, and you're done. You don't care what
the measurements actually are. The important part is the difference between
them, and whether that difference *changes* when the blade is tilted from 90
degrees to 45 degrees.

You can get a good set of flat feeler gauges at Sears for five bucks:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...id=00999008000

Any auto parts store will have them, too, for about the same price.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.


Sweet. Thanks again for taking the time with me.

-wylie

Let me do a computer analogy here if I may. I work with computers by
trade, and am experienced enough that I've been building my own from
used parts for several years now. But when someone asks me what to
buy, I tell them they should spend $300 or $2000. $300 will take care
of a casual user, internet, email, Office, etc without paying for
capacity they will never use. $2000 will satisfy a power user - 3D
online games, graphical design, etc.

I guess I'm a step or two up from a power user then. ;-) I'm a software
developer and my year old Dell "workstation" bogs down trying to run 2
copies of Visual Studio and virtual machines. (Yes, the VMs are on a
separate disk.)

The higher end of these ought to run pretty good. ;-)
http://www.digitaltigers.com/stratosphere-elite.php

I'd trade my current 7-monitor setup, a mixture of CRTs & LCDs, for one of
these.
http://www.digitaltigers.com/zenview...-ultrahd.shtml

-- Mark

Mark Jerde wrote:
Let me do a computer analogy here if I may. I work with computers by
trade, and am experienced enough that I've been building my own from
used parts for several years now. But when someone asks me what to
buy, I tell them they should spend $300 or $2000. $300 will take care
of a casual user, internet, email, Office, etc without paying for
capacity they will never use. $2000 will satisfy a power user - 3D
online games, graphical design, etc.

I guess I'm a step or two up from a power user then. ;-) I'm a software
developer and my year old Dell "workstation" bogs down trying to run 2
copies of Visual Studio and virtual machines. (Yes, the VMs are on a
separate disk.)

The higher end of these ought to run pretty good. ;-)
http://www.digitaltigers.com/stratosphere-elite.php

I'd trade my current 7-monitor setup, a mixture of CRTs & LCDs, for one of
these.
http://www.digitaltigers.com/zenview...-ultrahd.shtml

-- Mark

I think I just added some things to my Christmas list. Though
personally I use one big monitor hooked up by KVM to the three
computers at my home workstation.

-wylie