DIYbanter - Hardwood floor finishing problems

Trock wrote:
Hey all,

I'm new to this group, but I was very hopefull I might get some advice
here. I've been looking though a number of groups but haven't found an
answer.

I installed new hardwood floors in the past weeks. I used unfinished
brazilian cherry. The installation went well enough, then I went to
finishing them. Sanding went well, took the floor down level and
smooth. I applied a natural stain which brought out the beautiful color
in the wood. Now comes the problem:

I installed the floor on my upper and main floor. The upper floor
looked great and after 2 days was dry and I applied a water based
finish to it. 4 coats later I have a lovely floor that is done.

The main floor had some area where I didn't apply enough stain and
needed another coat. I went to two stores and couldn't find the same
stain I used (Minwax ) so I grabbed another brand of natural colored
stain ( Watco ) thinking it would work fine. Both are oil based
although the Minwax is recommended for floors and the Watco is not
which I know now but not then.

Where the first coat dried and was ready for a finish in 2 days, it has
now been over a week since I applied the 2nd coat and it is still
sticky. I did a test area 3 days after the 2nd coat of stain, but the
finish dried cloudy and very badly. After a week and no improvement I
tried some mineral spirits to help clear up the 2nd coat of stain. That
may have been a bad idea, but either way it seemed to help at first,
but a few days later the floor is still to sticky for the finish.

I finally decided to try and sand it down again and start over, I have
to get this done. As some of you may have guessed that doesn't work
because it doesn't take any time for the sandpaper to get gummed with
the sticky wood up then start ripping. I went through several papers
and got very little floor taken down.

Feel free to say that any approach I've taken is just stupid, I just
need to know what to do. If anyone has any ideas or can point me to a
post that might help, I'm about to put a shovel through my floor out of
pure frustration, and my wife has been very patient, but I don't know
how much longer she'll put up with our furniture in the garage and our
kitchen out on the porch. Thanks,

Trock

Hey Trock. Sorry about the mess.

I can throw a lot of things out there, but beware the diagnosing a
problem with finishing is twitchy just about any time, but from afar
almost impossible. But there are some likely suspects.

The Minwax stain has little (I mean very little) resin in it. So when
you apply the Minwax is is pigment and solvent. This dries rapidly as
you have seen giving you a chance to get back on the project and
finish. The amount of resin in the stain is just enough to hold the
pigment together so when you put finish on top of the stain it doesn't
just wipe off. Being highly thinned, it dries rapidly.

Watco is another animal. It is a colored oil, not a stain. The intent
of the finish is to provide a light duty, idiot proof, renewable finish
that is easily applied. But it is intended to be a finsh, not just a
stain. It takes days for that stuff to cure sometimes, and that is on
raw wood. But if you are going over another finish that won't let the
oil/solvent mixture in Watco penetrate (and go away) leaving only a
little on the surface to cure, then you could be in for a wait. Worse
still, depending on the water based finish you are using, they usually
have a large dose of alcohol in one form or another. These could also
add to the problem since the uncured part of floor would have areas
miscible with the alcohol making more goo.

I think this is what is happening since you are getting a cloudly
result in your finish. Trapped solvents - in this case no telling
which product - under your finish are letting you know the curing
process is not complete. And you are probably adding to it by putting
on the finish you have chosen.

This is what I would do.... not what you should do.... just a
suggestion. When I have had enough, I take out the lacquer thinner and
rub off everything I can get off with a rag. Now try this in an
unobtrusive place, or an area you have given up on. But for me, the
lacquer thinner does the trick (but you could probably use VPM -naptha-
or something along those lines) as it will take off a lot of the
finishes that are out there, break down the resins, and remove any
excess oils (Watco) that are lingering. If I have a problem finish
that just gums up and never stops, then I scrub it with a Scotch Brite
pad to loosen everything up, then throw a liberal amount of sawdust on
the loosen gunk and use the sawdust to pick up all the remaining gunk.
(This is kind of like throwing kitty litter on an oil spill). Once it
is clean and all the sawdust you can pick up with a rag is gone, then
vacuum it well. Then wash it off with some more lacquer thinner or
some mineral spirits.

For your sake, wear the proper respirator when doing this kind of work,
even when applying water based products.

Let it dry a couple of days. Sand as needed, and start over with the
original stain. Betcha that will get you back on track.

Let us know how you do.

Robert