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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
Hi all:
I'm gearing up for my first major project with cherry. An associate of mine recommended using a lye solution to darken the wood. After some research, I'd like to try it. However, I've found that Red Devil lye is no longer sold locally. I've found a few leads through candlemaking websites, but they require me to purchase 30lb of the stuff. I just want a little to experiment with. Are there any other brands to look for? My local searches have yeilded nothing that is pure sodium hydroxide, and I'm reluctant to use anything that has "other stuff" in it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, John. |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
Anybody used potassium hydroxide?
Thanks again for any help! Regards, John. |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
the_tool_man wrote: Anybody used potassium hydroxide? Thanks again for any help! Regards, John. That's why lye is, John. You can make it at home. This recipe is rather elaborate, for producing significant quantities. But I'm sure you can scale it down and simplify it. The basic idea is to pour soft water over hardwood ashes. N. B.: don't use any metal containers! http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Lye |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
Dhakala wrote: the_tool_man wrote: Anybody used potassium hydroxide? Thanks again for any help! Regards, John. That's why lye is, John. "What lye is," I meant. |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
"the_tool_man" wrote in message oups.com... Hi all: I'm gearing up for my first major project with cherry. An associate of mine recommended using a lye solution to darken the wood. After some research, I'd like to try it. However, I've found that Red Devil lye is no longer sold locally. I've found a few leads through candlemaking websites, but they require me to purchase 30lb of the stuff. I just want a little to experiment with. Are there any other brands to look for? My local searches have yeilded nothing that is pure sodium hydroxide, and I'm reluctant to use anything that has "other stuff" in it. Any help would be appreciated. Some drain cleaners are pure lye. You can try lye for darkening; I have never had any luck with it. It sorta works, but looks like wood that has had lye on it. |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
the_tool_man wrote: Hi all: I'm gearing up for my first major project with cherry. An associate of mine recommended using a lye solution to darken the wood. After some research, I'd like to try it. However, I've found that Red Devil lye is no longer sold locally. I've found a few leads through candlemaking websites, but they require me to purchase 30lb of the stuff. I just want a little to experiment with. Are there any other brands to look for? My local searches have yeilded nothing that is pure sodium hydroxide, and I'm reluctant to use anything that has "other stuff" in it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, John. Here are some sources for smaller quantities. http://www.chemistrystore.com/Sodium_Hydroxide.htm http://www.sciencelab.com/search.php?q=sodium+hydroxide http://www.sciencestuff.com/prod/Chem-Rgnts/C2582 |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
wrote: the_tool_man wrote: Hi all: I'm gearing up for my first major project with cherry. An associate of mine recommended using a lye solution to darken the wood. After some research, I'd like to try it. However, I've found that Red Devil lye is no longer sold locally. I've found a few leads through candlemaking websites, but they require me to purchase 30lb of the stuff. I just want a little to experiment with. Are there any other brands to look for? My local searches have yeilded nothing that is pure sodium hydroxide, and I'm reluctant to use anything that has "other stuff" in it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, John. Here are some sources for smaller quantities. http://www.chemistrystore.com/Sodium_Hydroxide.htm http://www.sciencelab.com/search.php?q=sodium+hydroxide http://www.sciencestuff.com/prod/Chem-Rgnts/C2582 Watch out for hazmat shipping/handling charges... they can kill ya! |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
On 29 Jun 2006 08:52:38 -0700, "the_tool_man"
wrote: Hi all: I'm gearing up for my first major project with cherry. An associate of mine recommended using a lye solution to darken the wood. After some research, I'd like to try it. However, I've found that Red Devil lye is no longer sold locally. I've found a few leads through candlemaking websites, but they require me to purchase 30lb of the stuff. I just want a little to experiment with. Are there any other brands to look for? My local searches have yeilded nothing that is pure sodium hydroxide, and I'm reluctant to use anything that has "other stuff" in it. Any help would be appreciated. I've bought it at Ace Hardware. |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
In article . com, "Dhakala" wrote:
Dhakala wrote: the_tool_man wrote: Anybody used potassium hydroxide? Thanks again for any help! Regards, John. That's why lye is, John. "What lye is," I meant. But that's *not* what lye is. Lye is sodium hydroxide. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
Toller wrote: You can try lye for darkening; I have never had any luck with it. It sorta works, but looks like wood that has had lye on it. I'm with you there...in my experience it adds a tremendous amount of red to the wood...a very unatural look. Myself I prefer to fume it in order to speed up the darkening process. No artificial look to it at all. However, if I were the OP I would definitely try to get hold of some to experiment with. That's the way I learned, and I've found there is no better teacher. And there may be some opportunities where that red look might just fit the bill. And hey...what's the harm? If you don't like it, you just pour the rest down the drain! |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
Hi Wes:
I just went to my local Ace this morning. I was told that Ace no longer carries Red Devil lye because it is used in the manufacture of methamphetamine. I guess that's why I can't find it anywhere. Wes Stewart wrote: On 29 Jun 2006 08:52:38 -0700, "the_tool_man" wrote: Hi all: I'm gearing up for my first major project with cherry. An associate of mine recommended using a lye solution to darken the wood. After some research, I'd like to try it. However, I've found that Red Devil lye is no longer sold locally. I've found a few leads through candlemaking websites, but they require me to purchase 30lb of the stuff. I just want a little to experiment with. Are there any other brands to look for? My local searches have yeilded nothing that is pure sodium hydroxide, and I'm reluctant to use anything that has "other stuff" in it. Any help would be appreciated. I've bought it at Ace Hardware. |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
Hi Dhakala:
By lye, I mean sodium hydroxide. Potassium hydroxide is a.k.a. Potash Lye. They are two different things, but with sorta the same name. The question is, does it produce the same effect as "regular" lye. I ask, because I think Potassium hydoxide is used as a pH modifier in spa chemicals, which I can get in reasonable quantities. Dhakala wrote: the_tool_man wrote: Anybody used potassium hydroxide? Thanks again for any help! Regards, John. That's why lye is, John. You can make it at home. This recipe is rather elaborate, for producing significant quantities. But I'm sure you can scale it down and simplify it. The basic idea is to pour soft water over hardwood ashes. N. B.: don't use any metal containers! http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Lye |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
On 29 Jun 2006 14:36:25 -0700, "the_tool_man"
wrote: Hi Wes: I just went to my local Ace this morning. I was told that Ace no longer carries Red Devil lye because it is used in the manufacture of methamphetamine. I guess that's why I can't find it anywhere. Crap. I use it for cleaing/etching aluminum. Glad I still have about 4 cans in stock. |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
... I've found that Red Devil lye is no longer sold locally. ... My local searches have yeilded nothing that is pure sodium hydroxide, and I'm reluctant to use anything that has "other stuff" in it. You don't need pure "sodium hydroxide". In a pinch you can use Easy-Off oven cleaner or Drano. Both contain lye. |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
... I've found that Red Devil lye is no longer sold locally. ... My local searches have yeilded nothing that is pure sodium hydroxide, and I'm reluctant to use anything that has "other stuff" in it. You don't need pure "sodium hydroxide". In a pinch you can use Easy-Off oven cleaner or Drano. Both contain lye. |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
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#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
the_tool_man wrote:
By lye, I mean sodium hydroxide. AKA: "caustic". Almost every paint stripper uses it as the muscle to soften paint. Does a great job of eating wood fibers. BTW, have a couple of customers with 10,000 gallon tanks of 50% caustic, but that doesn't help much. It is used to make detergents as well as paint stripper. Lew |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
http://www.chemistrystore.com/Sodium_Hydroxide.htm
$10 for 2#, $67 for 25# ships UPS in the continental US. |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
"the_tool_man" wrote...
By lye, I mean sodium hydroxide. Part A of a two step wood bleach, such as Klean-Strip brand, is sodium hydroxide. Part B is Hydrogen Peroxide. This stuff works great for bleaching walnut, but does not give a uniform effect on cherry, IMO. Also, the lye component damages the wood fibers. Lye is also used for making wood pulp for paper, IIRC. You say this is your first project in cherry - putting lye on it seems like a pretty drastic step. Most people really like cherry as-is, and it can be dyed and/or stained for some really nice effects. Also, there is a simple trick for darkening cherry that doesnt require any harsh chemicals. Just put your completed but unfinished piece in the sun for a few days. It will darken up very quickly. -- Timothy Juvenal www.rude-tone.com/work.htm |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
Doug Miller wrote: In article . com, "Dhakala" wrote: Dhakala wrote: the_tool_man wrote: Anybody used potassium hydroxide? Thanks again for any help! Regards, John. That's why lye is, John. "What lye is," I meant. But that's *not* what lye is. Lye is sodium hydroxide. It can be either. The lye made from ashes is potash lye, potassium hydroxide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lye |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
the_tool_man wrote: Hi Dhakala: By lye, I mean sodium hydroxide. Potassium hydroxide is a.k.a. Potash Lye. They are two different things, but with sorta the same name. The question is, does it produce the same effect as "regular" lye. I ask, because I think Potassium hydoxide is used as a pH modifier in spa chemicals, which I can get in reasonable quantities. NaOH and KOH are both known as "lye." It's the hydroxyl group (-OH) that does the job. It won't matter if the metallic ion is potassium or sodium. NaOH is a slightly stronger base than KOH. Here's a page that says Red Devil Lye has been pulled from retail markets. It describes several other products that are NaOH or KOH, plus retail and online sources. http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/co...lyesources.htm |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
In article .com, "Dhakala" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote: In article . com, "Dhakala" wrote: Dhakala wrote: the_tool_man wrote: Anybody used potassium hydroxide? Thanks again for any help! Regards, John. That's why lye is, John. "What lye is," I meant. But that's *not* what lye is. Lye is sodium hydroxide. It can be either. Not correct. Lye is specifically NaOH. The lye made from ashes is potash lye, potassium hydroxide. OK, fine, but "lye" and "potash lye" are not the same thing. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
On 29 Jun 2006 08:52:38 -0700, "the_tool_man"
wrote: Hi all: I'm gearing up for my first major project with cherry. An associate of mine recommended using a lye solution to darken the wood. After some research, I'd like to try it. However, I've found that Red Devil lye is no longer sold locally. I've found a few leads through candlemaking websites, but they require me to purchase 30lb of the stuff. I just want a little to experiment with. Are there any other brands to look for? My local searches have yeilded nothing that is pure sodium hydroxide, and I'm reluctant to use anything that has "other stuff" in it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, John. You can buy sodium hydroxide at a chemical supply house. It is inexpensive and can be purchased as pellets or flakes. It is very caustic, will dissolve flesh, can cause blindness if you get it into your eyes, and hydrophilic. It mixes well with water. Wear protective clothing, rubber gloves, and keep out of reach of children. |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
Doug Miller wrote: But that's *not* what lye is. Lye is sodium hydroxide. It can be either. Not correct. Lye is specifically NaOH. The lye made from ashes is potash lye, potassium hydroxide. OK, fine, but "lye" and "potash lye" are not the same thing. Potassium hydroxide came first, as a result of the very natural and ancient process of rain falling on forest fires. It is the stuff for which the word "lye" was coined centuries ago. http://m-w.com/dictionary/lye Sodium hydroxide is a manmade and much more recent compound. The oldest process for its manufacture seems to date to 1772. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide So I maintain that KOH is the original lye, and NaOH has glommed onto the name simply by becoming the more common and cheaper caustic. |
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
In article .com,
Dhakala wrote: ...other quotes snipped... Potassium hydroxide came first, as a result of the very natural and ancient process of rain falling on forest fires. It is the stuff for which the word "lye" was coined centuries ago. http://m-w.com/dictionary/lye Sodium hydroxide is a manmade and much more recent compound. The oldest process for its manufacture seems to date to 1772. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide So I maintain that KOH is the original lye, and NaOH has glommed onto the name simply by becoming the more common and cheaper caustic. Just like thousands of other words have had their accepted meanings changed in the last few hundred years. You can maintain what you want to, but if you went to any hardware store or chemical supplier and asked for lye, you'd get NaOH. No lie! (Sorry couldn't resist) -- Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland |
#27
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
replying to Dhakala, The chemist wrote:
You are wrong. Chemically it may be SIMILAR but similar is NOT the same. Different reactions and reactivities. While for some uses it might not matter, for other uses everything about it matters. True lye IS the true NaOH. I'm a chemist, I should know. -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodwo...ye-107100-.htm |
#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
On 9/17/2019 9:44 AM, The chemist wrote:
replying to Dhakala, The chemist wrote: You are wrong. Chemically it may be SIMILAR but similar is NOT the same. Different reactions and reactivities. While for some uses it might not matter, for other uses everything about it matters. True lye IS the true NaOH. I'm a chemist, I should know. So while you are a "Chemist", the post is 13 years old. |
#29
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
Leon wrote:
On 9/17/2019 9:44 AM, The chemist wrote: replying to Dhakala, The chemist wrote: You are wrong. Chemically it may be SIMILAR but similar is NOT the same. Different reactions and reactivities. While for some uses it might not matter, for other uses everything about it matters. True lye IS the true NaOH. I'm a chemist, I should know. So while you are a "Chemist", the post is 13 years old. Obviously he's a chemist, not a mathematician. You don't need math to do chemistry, right? Puckdropper |
#30
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Substitute for Red Devil lye?
On 9/17/2019 1:10 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Leon wrote: On 9/17/2019 9:44 AM, The chemist wrote: replying to Dhakala, The chemist wrote: You are wrong. Chemically it may be SIMILAR but similar is NOT the same. Different reactions and reactivities. While for some uses it might not matter, for other uses everything about it matters. True lye IS the true NaOH. I'm a chemist, I should know. So while you are a "Chemist", the post is 13 years old. Obviously he's a chemist, not a mathematician. You don't need math to do chemistry, right? Well, LOL, a good chemist needs to do math. |
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