My house has an old cedar deck that, after 18 years, has suffered
from a Southern exposure, such that the upper board surfaces are
grayed, large cracks going down 1/16 to 1/8th, and probably some are
slightly bowed, warped or otherwise mis-shapen.
My wife wants to trash the deck but I think that's a mistake. I had
heard a "trick" of pulling up the surface boards and just flipping them
and staining. Haven't looked at the under side but suspect that might
not do the trick.
Then it occurred to me that it might be very cost effective to buy a
joiner or planer and run the surface boards through it and end up with
an almost new, smooth deck surface.
Sorry for the long preface, but now to the question: as a rookie
woodworker I'm not real clear on the difference between a planer and a
joiner. But I presume if the boards are "true" and just in need of a
new surface, I'd get a planer and take off the top 1/16th or 1/8th
which is probably all that would be needed to remove the cracks and
make it receptive to new stain/treatment. And I further presume if the
boards are not true but rather slightly bowed (they are about 4-5
inches wide), then I'd buy a joiner and it would make the surface flat.
But if the boards are mostly flat but just in need of taking off the
top surface to get rid of cracks, couldn't a joiner serve both
purposes, e.g. true up maybe the 10-20% of the boards that are a little
bowed (the deck was nailed, not screwed, grrrrrrrr....) and use that
same joiner for the flat boards to just take off the top surface ? The
actual thickness of the boards is not critical as long as they are all
reasonably the same, e.g. this is a deck, not fine cabinetry.
In other words can just one machine be used to resurface the boards
surfaces of a deck ?
Thanks for any help or advice.

Bob

wrote in message
Then it occurred to me that it might be very cost effective to buy a
joiner or planer and run the surface boards through it and end up with
an almost new, smooth deck surface.
Sorry for the long preface, but now to the question: as a rookie
woodworker I'm not real clear on the difference between a planer and a
joiner.

I'd use the planer. It will assure the finished boards are all the same
thickness. Even with a little bowing, once nailed or screwed back in place
it should lay flat again.


The
actual thickness of the boards is not critical as long as they are all
reasonably the same, e.g. this is a deck, not fine cabinetry.

Within reason that is true. You don't walk on fine cabinetry so a 1/4"
section of wood won't put you on your ass.

In other words can just one machine be used to resurface the boards
surfaces of a deck ?

Yes. If it was less than the 1/8" you could even rent a floor sander.

Wow, incredibly fast and helpful response. And you even anticipated my
next post since I forgot it in the first one- to ask if a floor sander
would work. I suspect as I get into it I will find using both
approaches to work best, e.g. a planar and a floor sander. I might be
able to sand the floor surfaces but the railings and probably some of
the flooring boards will require the planar as you suggested.

Thanks for the quick, helpful response.

Bob

One thing to bear in mind is how the deck is attached to the framing.
If it's just nailed down you're going to have to either go through and
set all the nails deeper, then carefully use the sander. Or pull all
the boards, remove all the nails then run them through the planer.
Also you will have to remember to remove the surface a small bit at a
time. Usually one rotation of the crank. Taking off a 1/16th to an
1/8th is going to take multiple passes.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it. Just pointing out that either
method is going to take a LOT of work before you even get back to
staining the deck again.

On 21 May 2006 20:15:44 -0700, wrote:

Wow, incredibly fast and helpful response. And you even anticipated my
next post since I forgot it in the first one- to ask if a floor sander
would work. I suspect as I get into it I will find using both
approaches to work best, e.g. a planar and a floor sander. I might be
able to sand the floor surfaces but the railings and probably some of
the flooring boards will require the planar as you suggested.

Thanks for the quick, helpful response.

Bob

wrote in message
oups.com...
Wow, incredibly fast and helpful response. And you even anticipated my
next post since I forgot it in the first one- to ask if a floor sander
would work. I suspect as I get into it I will find using both
approaches to work best, e.g. a planar and a floor sander. I might be
able to sand the floor surfaces but the railings and probably some of
the flooring boards will require the planar as you suggested.

Thanks for the quick, helpful response.

Bob

If the floor sander works OK on the floor, I'd strongly consider a belt
sander for the rest of it rather than removing the boards to be planed.

todd

In article ,
says...
wrote in message
oups.com...
Wow, incredibly fast and helpful response. And you even anticipated my
next post since I forgot it in the first one- to ask if a floor sander
would work. I suspect as I get into it I will find using both
approaches to work best, e.g. a planar and a floor sander. I might be
able to sand the floor surfaces but the railings and probably some of
the flooring boards will require the planar as you suggested.

Thanks for the quick, helpful response.

Bob

If the floor sander works OK on the floor, I'd strongly consider a belt
sander for the rest of it rather than removing the boards to be planed.

todd

In your original post, you said "cedar", so you are probably fine.
If it is pressure treated, especially the older CCA SYP, sanding would
be a *very* bad idea. You would get Arsenic all over your yard, in
the air, dust everywhere. The newer ACQ pressure treated is supposed
to be less toxic, but I think it could still be pretty bad. I wouldn't
want to breath it or eat anything cooked in a cloud of ACQ dust.

A planer would be better because you could contain most of the shavings
and they are much easier to sweep up and collect than sanding dust.
You could probably rig up a large plastic tent-like structure over
the outfeed side so you could feed the boards into the one end with
the other end sealed, let them fall to the ground inside the tent after
a pass through the planer, and after doing a bunch of them, wait for the
shavings to settle before unsealing the tent to remove the boards for
the next pass through the planer. (I'm imagining doing this outdoors
without access to a dust collector system.)

All in all, cedar should be much easier do deal with; I think people
use cedar shavings for mulch. (There are lots of different woods
called "cedar", but I think none of then are particularly problems.
Check before you use the shavings as mulch, though, especially on
vegetables.)

I'm posting this because I'm worried that someone with a pressure
treated deck may some day Google this thread and do themselves
(and their family, friends and neighbors) serious harm.

--
John

"John Santos" wrote in message
wrote in message
oups.com...
Wow, incredibly fast and helpful response. And you even anticipated my
next post since I forgot it in the first one- to ask if a floor sander
would work. I suspect as I get into it I will find using both
approaches to work best, e.g. a planar and a floor sander. I might be
able to sand the floor surfaces but the railings and probably some of
the flooring boards will require the planar as you suggested.

In your original post, you said "cedar", so you are probably fine.
If it is pressure treated, especially the older CCA SYP, sanding would
be a *very* bad idea. You would get Arsenic all over your yard, in
the air, dust everywhere. The newer ACQ pressure treated is supposed
to be less toxic, but I think it could still be pretty bad. I wouldn't
want to breath it or eat anything cooked in a cloud of ACQ dust.

A planer would be better because you could contain most of the shavings
and they are much easier to sweep up and collect than sanding dust.
You could probably rig up a large plastic tent-like structure over
the outfeed side so you could feed the boards into the one end with
the other end sealed, let them fall to the ground inside the tent after
a pass through the planer, and after doing a bunch of them, wait for the
shavings to settle before unsealing the tent to remove the boards for
the next pass through the planer. (I'm imagining doing this outdoors
without access to a dust collector system.)

All in all, cedar should be much easier do deal with; I think people
use cedar shavings for mulch. (There are lots of different woods
called "cedar", but I think none of then are particularly problems.
Check before you use the shavings as mulch, though, especially on
vegetables.)

People use cedar because it's loaded with fungicides and insecticides.
That's why it lasts outdoors. Fortunately, it's been grandfathered in under
environmental rules!

Grit in the old boards would make planing a nasty task. Best answer is to
use a thickness sander.

Of course, I won't remind you that you should collect the dust. That seems
too obvious to me. Lots easier to do so on a thickness sander.

wrote in message
oups.com...
My house has an old cedar deck that, after 18 years, has suffered
from a Southern exposure, such that the upper board surfaces are
grayed, large cracks going down 1/16 to 1/8th, and probably some are
slightly bowed, warped or otherwise mis-shapen.
My wife wants to trash the deck but I think that's a mistake. I had
heard a "trick" of pulling up the surface boards and just flipping them
and staining. Haven't looked at the under side but suspect that might
not do the trick.


Having read all of the other responses I'm compelled to ask - why such an
elaborate solution to a simple deck? It is after all - a deck. Why not
pressure wash the deck as it is? A pressure washer will remove all of the
grey weathered look, though it won't do anything for the cracks. Do you
really care that much about the cracks on a deck? Those cracks are just
part of a deck surface. Cleaned up you may discover that they don't look as
bad to your eye as they do now.

--

-Mike-

On 21 May 2006 19:46:26 -0700, wrote:

...as a rookie woodworker I'm not real clear on the difference
between a planer and a joiner.

Easy. A planer is a machine that surfaces one face of a board making
it parallel with its opposite face.

A joiner is a craftsperson who wields a variety of handtools in the
pursuit of "joinery", that is making the interfaces between parts of a
larger piece such as furniture, although a joiner might be employed in
the construction of a house, as well.

Now a jointer, on the other hand...

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

On Sun, 21 May 2006 20:28:37 -0700, Stonegrift wrote:

I'm not trying to talk you out of it. Just pointing out that either method
is going to take a LOT of work before you even get back to staining the
deck again.

And either method (floor sander or planer) is going to leave sharp edges. Even
more work is needed to ease those edges.

--
Art Greenberg
artg AT eclipse remove-this DOT net

Keep in mind that any surface modification will be short lived before the
deck turns grey again.

If you must, flip the boards. Don't double your work by resurfacing and
replace any boards that are warped.






wrote in message
oups.com...
My house has an old cedar deck that, after 18 years, has suffered
from a Southern exposure, such that the upper board surfaces are
grayed, large cracks going down 1/16 to 1/8th, and probably some are
slightly bowed, warped or otherwise mis-shapen.
My wife wants to trash the deck but I think that's a mistake. I had
heard a "trick" of pulling up the surface boards and just flipping them
and staining. Haven't looked at the under side but suspect that might
not do the trick.
Then it occurred to me that it might be very cost effective to buy a
joiner or planer and run the surface boards through it and end up with
an almost new, smooth deck surface.
Sorry for the long preface, but now to the question: as a rookie
woodworker I'm not real clear on the difference between a planer and a
joiner. But I presume if the boards are "true" and just in need of a
new surface, I'd get a planer and take off the top 1/16th or 1/8th
which is probably all that would be needed to remove the cracks and
make it receptive to new stain/treatment. And I further presume if the
boards are not true but rather slightly bowed (they are about 4-5
inches wide), then I'd buy a joiner and it would make the surface flat.
But if the boards are mostly flat but just in need of taking off the
top surface to get rid of cracks, couldn't a joiner serve both
purposes, e.g. true up maybe the 10-20% of the boards that are a little
bowed (the deck was nailed, not screwed, grrrrrrrr....) and use that
same joiner for the flat boards to just take off the top surface ? The
actual thickness of the boards is not critical as long as they are all
reasonably the same, e.g. this is a deck, not fine cabinetry.
In other words can just one machine be used to resurface the boards
surfaces of a deck ?
Thanks for any help or advice.

Bob

Mike Marlow wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
My house has an old cedar deck that, after 18 years, has suffered
from a Southern exposure, such that the upper board surfaces are
grayed, large cracks going down 1/16 to 1/8th, and probably some are
slightly bowed, warped or otherwise mis-shapen.
My wife wants to trash the deck but I think that's a mistake. I had
heard a "trick" of pulling up the surface boards and just flipping them
and staining. Haven't looked at the under side but suspect that might
not do the trick.

Having read all of the other responses I'm compelled to ask - why such an
elaborate solution to a simple deck? It is after all - a deck. Why not
pressure wash the deck as it is? A pressure washer will remove all of the
grey weathered look, though it won't do anything for the cracks. Do you
really care that much about the cracks on a deck? Those cracks are just
part of a deck surface. Cleaned up you may discover that they don't look as
bad to your eye as they do now.

Mike's advice is good. Consider doing the minimum (in terms of expense
and labor) to get the desired result before moving to something like
planing. Just taking apart and putting back together a deck will
convince you of an ill-conceived idea, in most cases (if the cedar is
that nice, maybe...). Try these steps in order:

1) Pressure wash it. You might be happy with the looks right there.

2) If it's still a bit rough, sand it. Rent a floor sander and get the
appropriate grits (that's plural grits: don't neglect getting the final
surface nice and smooth). Should take two passes for a deck, I'd think:
first grit around #80, then finish with #120 or so. But you might want
to experiment on the grit with that particular wood.

Get a decent belt sander and an orbital sander for the vertical
sections. This part will be tedious, so break it up into chunks of time
or space.

3) If there are cracks that bother you, fix them at this point. Good
quality wood putty if they're small enough, otherwise rip a board into
small triangular (crosscut) patches and glue them in, then sand them
flush. Or, if they're bad enough replace a board or two.

4) Don't forget to put a protective coat of something on it. Don't
skimp, ask at a professional paint supply store. Expect to pay
$50+/gal. for good stuff. It's worth every penny, both in looks and how
much longer it will last.

H

Careful disassembly will take time. (lots) Keep in mind that if you
plan to reassemble things will have to go back to pretty much the same
place they came from. Sure everything doesn't have to be precisely
logged, but you can just put it all into a few neat piles. (Certain
combinations of boards will cover one length of floor, same for
railings. You're on your own for making sure the nail/screw holes line
up well enough so you don't end up with a swiss cheese style deck) If
you're not careful you could end up with a huge jigsaw puzzle that you
have to reassemble without the help of a picture to follow.

Planing will take time. (lots) Also, the years of accumulated
dirt/sand will be hell on the planer blades. Expect to replace/sharpen
re-set them often or you won't be getting the results you were seeking.
(IMO it is a waste of time to plane all the boards with dull knives)
Also, keep in mind that you will be limited on how much material you
can remove. Check the local building code to be sure that the
resulting pieces meet the minimum requirements for thickness. Don't
forget that the (with any luck) few new boards you will need also need
to be milled to the new dimensions.

Unless you've got some long overdue vacation comming, this may be more
than you bargained for.

Some have suggested sanding. You'll need a drum sander for that. A
screen on a floor buffer is going to get torn to shreds in minutes
unless you've got a tongue & groove floor down. (My porch has T&G
boards, and is relatively smooth and has -0- exposed nail heads, so I
got away with using a buffer with screens however I did go through a
few.)


Good luck.

replying to John Santos, Shondolyn wrote:
i greatly appreciate your post John bc I do have some used treated deck wood
that I am trying to figure out the best way to refinish for reuse as a deck in
my yard. The whole dangerous chemicals did not even occur to me and this is
going to be a family project, so THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH!

--
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