My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concrete floor
I am doing a Renovation in the basement. Where the Copper water pipe goes
down vertically into the ground, the concrete floor is missing. there is a 7" trapezoidal gap in the pour. I have partially covered it with the 2x4" flat to the floor that is part of a new stud wall. but the hole still juts out. The hole sticks into what is to be a finished tiled floor I will do shortly diagonally 1.5" x 3". Then on the other side of a 2x2" partition wall the hole continues about another 6"x6". There is also the main ground wire from the fuse box screwed to the same copper water pipe about an inch above concrete level. However the bare wire low gauge crimp clip which attaches the wire to the pipe with a wrap around steel clamp and bolt is kinked right off, and I have mashed the bare twisted wire just into the main water shut off tap wheel. It is all right at the water meter. Two questions: 1) Can I fill this hole with concrete (or how much of the hole). It is quite a noticeable gap, with nothing but dirt a few inches down. A little of this hole is on the edge of a new tile floor I'll be doing. I'd like to fill it (all) in. Is there any reason not to wrap an 1/16"- 1/8" flexible whatever around the water pipe, and fill it up. 2) What if any danger am I in handling the bare ground wire for a while to re-crimp/clamp without shutting off the main power? ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concrete floor
"bent" wrote in message
... I am doing a Renovation in the basement. Where the Copper water pipe goes down vertically into the ground, the concrete floor is missing. there is a 7" trapezoidal gap in the pour. I have partially covered it with the 2x4" flat to the floor that is part of a new stud wall. but the hole still juts out. The hole sticks into what is to be a finished tiled floor I will do shortly diagonally 1.5" x 3". Then on the other side of a 2x2" partition wall the hole continues about another 6"x6". There is also the main ground wire from the fuse box screwed to the same copper water pipe about an inch above concrete level. However the bare wire low gauge crimp clip which attaches the wire to the pipe with a wrap around steel clamp and bolt is kinked right off, and I have mashed the bare twisted wire just into the main water shut off tap wheel. It is all right at the water meter. Two questions: 1) Can I fill this hole with concrete (or how much of the hole). It is quite a noticeable gap, with nothing but dirt a few inches down. A little of this hole is on the edge of a new tile floor I'll be doing. I'd like to fill it (all) in. Is there any reason not to wrap an 1/16"- 1/8" flexible whatever around the water pipe, and fill it up. We're doing a major addition to our house which required an upgrade to our water service. After they broke out the floor, pulled the old stuff out, and put the new in, they filled the hole with concrete right up to the pipe. My little suburb here is pretty strict with the codes, so I'm sure that's fine. 2) What if any danger am I in handling the bare ground wire for a while to re-crimp/clamp without shutting off the main power? Close to zero. If you're concerned about that, I'd stay out of the shower if I were you. todd |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concrete floor
"bent" wrote in message ... I am doing a Renovation in the basement. Where the Copper water pipe goes down vertically into the ground, the concrete floor is missing. there is a 7" trapezoidal gap in the pour. I have partially covered it with the 2x4" flat to the floor that is part of a new stud wall. but the hole still juts out. The hole sticks into what is to be a finished tiled floor I will do shortly diagonally 1.5" x 3". Then on the other side of a 2x2" partition wall the hole continues about another 6"x6". There is also the main ground wire from the fuse box screwed to the same copper water pipe about an inch above concrete level. However the bare wire low gauge crimp clip which attaches the wire to the pipe with a wrap around steel clamp and bolt is kinked right off, and I have mashed the bare twisted wire just into the main water shut off tap wheel. It is all right at the water meter. Two questions: 1) Can I fill this hole with concrete (or how much of the hole). It is quite a noticeable gap, with nothing but dirt a few inches down. A little of this hole is on the edge of a new tile floor I'll be doing. I'd like to fill it (all) in. Is there any reason not to wrap an 1/16"- 1/8" flexible whatever around the water pipe, and fill it up. http://www.copper.org/applications/p..._concrete.html Ground wire is harmless... |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concrete floor
"Locutus" wrote in
: http://www.copper.org/applications/p...oblem_embeddin g_copper_concrete.html Ground wire is harmless... In most cases, contact with the ground wire is harmless. However, you can get shocked by it due to static electricity or unusual circumstances such as an idiot doing wiring in your house, or lightning hitting the right place. It's metal, therefore it conducts current. It has the potential to be dangerous. Puckdropper -- www.uncreativelabs.net Want to get in my kill file? Feed the troll. |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concrete floor
Copper and concrete are not a good mix. Many of the Levittown homes in
the NE have had to change from the original copper slab heat to baseboard because of this. From: http://www.oldhousejournal.com/magaz...iantheat.shtml "As time went by, some of the copper tubing began to leak, and water would soak into the ground rather than rise up through the floor. Consequently, homeowners didn't know when a minor leak occurred, which eventually led to major problems. Both Levitt's and Wright's homes had early copper piping that pushed the envelope right to its limits in this way. If workmen operating on a tight schedule installed the piping with too much play, the pipes could easily break. In fact, the very nature of copper's interaction with concrete made corrosion of the pipes likely to happen eventually, unless a protective barrier was installed-a process that was perfected much later. Once leaks began they were nearly impossible to fix, leading many homeowners with this problem to abandon the systems and install baseboard convectors instead." You could always trust the guys at copper.org or the thousands of people that had their system fail. I would at least wrap the pipe in a thin layer of foam to keep the concrete from touching the copper. |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concretefloor
There are two issues:
Is it possible that lethal voltages might be found between the copper pipe and the grounding wire (when disconnected from the pipe, of course)? Absolutely! It is not likely, but it can and has happened. Second issue is what to do about it? You can carefully measure the voltage when the wire is disconnected, but you need the right kind of meter for that. Best, and easiest, approach is to clip a jumper between the grounding wire and the copper pipe before removing the clamp, etc. When you're finished, remove the jumper. Needless to say, potentially lethal voltages are a sign of a problem that ought to be diagnosed and corrected. They are not a normal condition. This is very definitely not in the same class as taking a shower! Good luck. Chuck bent wrote: I am doing a Renovation in the basement. Where the Copper water pipe goes down vertically into the ground, the concrete floor is missing. there is a 7" trapezoidal gap in the pour. I have partially covered it with the 2x4" flat to the floor that is part of a new stud wall. but the hole still juts out. The hole sticks into what is to be a finished tiled floor I will do shortly diagonally 1.5" x 3". Then on the other side of a 2x2" partition wall the hole continues about another 6"x6". There is also the main ground wire from the fuse box screwed to the same copper water pipe about an inch above concrete level. However the bare wire low gauge crimp clip which attaches the wire to the pipe with a wrap around steel clamp and bolt is kinked right off, and I have mashed the bare twisted wire just into the main water shut off tap wheel. It is all right at the water meter. Two questions: 1) Can I fill this hole with concrete (or how much of the hole). It is quite a noticeable gap, with nothing but dirt a few inches down. A little of this hole is on the edge of a new tile floor I'll be doing. I'd like to fill it (all) in. Is there any reason not to wrap an 1/16"- 1/8" flexible whatever around the water pipe, and fill it up. 2) What if any danger am I in handling the bare ground wire for a while to re-crimp/clamp without shutting off the main power? ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concretefloor
Maybe I read too fast. To "handle" the ground wire while it is connected
to ground will not be a problem. My previous post assumed you wanted to disconnect the ground wire from the copper pipe to replace the clamp. If so, it would be good to switch the main breaker off as well. Chuck chuck wrote: There are two issues: Is it possible that lethal voltages might be found between the copper pipe and the grounding wire (when disconnected from the pipe, of course)? Absolutely! It is not likely, but it can and has happened. Second issue is what to do about it? You can carefully measure the voltage when the wire is disconnected, but you need the right kind of meter for that. Best, and easiest, approach is to clip a jumper between the grounding wire and the copper pipe before removing the clamp, etc. When you're finished, remove the jumper. Needless to say, potentially lethal voltages are a sign of a problem that ought to be diagnosed and corrected. They are not a normal condition. This is very definitely not in the same class as taking a shower! Good luck. Chuck bent wrote: I am doing a Renovation in the basement. Where the Copper water pipe goes down vertically into the ground, the concrete floor is missing. there is a 7" trapezoidal gap in the pour. I have partially covered it with the 2x4" flat to the floor that is part of a new stud wall. but the hole still juts out. The hole sticks into what is to be a finished tiled floor I will do shortly diagonally 1.5" x 3". Then on the other side of a 2x2" partition wall the hole continues about another 6"x6". There is also the main ground wire from the fuse box screwed to the same copper water pipe about an inch above concrete level. However the bare wire low gauge crimp clip which attaches the wire to the pipe with a wrap around steel clamp and bolt is kinked right off, and I have mashed the bare twisted wire just into the main water shut off tap wheel. It is all right at the water meter. Two questions: 1) Can I fill this hole with concrete (or how much of the hole). It is quite a noticeable gap, with nothing but dirt a few inches down. A little of this hole is on the edge of a new tile floor I'll be doing. I'd like to fill it (all) in. Is there any reason not to wrap an 1/16"- 1/8" flexible whatever around the water pipe, and fill it up. 2) What if any danger am I in handling the bare ground wire for a while to re-crimp/clamp without shutting off the main power? ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concretefloor
As long as the ground is still attached, zero risk. If you disconnect the ground and there is something bleeding current to ground, it will be live. I had a "hot" computer case once. If I touched it, while touching something grounded I got a heck of a zap. Turned out the extension cord I was using had the ground broken inside of the male end of the cord. AC inducts current into nearby conductors real well, so it was loading the ground wire, no longer connected to a ground, with lots of juice. Since the case of the computer is directly connected to the ground lead... Replacing the cord solved the problem. -- Bill Berglin "Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, 'WOW! What A RIDE!!" ... Unknown |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concrete floor
"chuck" wrote in message link.net... There are two issues: Is it possible that lethal voltages might be found between the copper pipe and the grounding wire (when disconnected from the pipe, of course)? Absolutely! It is not likely, but it can and has happened. Second issue is what to do about it? You can carefully measure the voltage when the wire is disconnected, but you need the right kind of meter for that. Best, and easiest, approach is to clip a jumper between the grounding wire and the copper pipe before removing the clamp, etc. When you're finished, remove the jumper. Needless to say, potentially lethal voltages are a sign of a problem that ought to be diagnosed and corrected. They are not a normal condition. This is very definitely not in the same class as taking a shower! Good luck. Chuck I don't understand your last sentence. I'm saying that if you're gravely concerned about having a "potentially lethal" voltage connected to your plumbing pipe, then I'd avoid touching any of the plumbing in the house and I certainly wouldn't get soaking wet and stand in a shower lest the voltage decide I'm a better path to ground. Is there a non-zero risk of dying from doing this? Yes, there is. So while we're at it, why don't we have the OP wear linesman's gloves and use a hot stick to install the clamp? todd |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concretefloor
As a plumber, I have run into about 4 cases of the water bond having
enough voltage to give me a good tingle when it was disconnected. We have learned to use automotive jumper cables to jumper ground wire to water service while bond clamp is being reconnected. |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concretefloor
ps: I aways install jumper before relocating a ground clamp, checking
for sparks with jumper cables. I did get quite a tingle ONCE. |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concrete floor
Copper corrosion under slabs is a big problem all across the country.
As a consulting engineer I made many investigations of these problems. My experience led to three basic actions to avert problems. Don't use copper water pipe as an electrical ground. The transient currents can turn the pipe to Swiss cheese. If the water supply tests for any level of hardness and CO2 [Carbon Dioxide], the stray currents will cause an electrolytic erosion of the copper, forming Copper Carbonate inside the pipe. This is easily identified by the Turquoise color of the deposit. Don't install copper pipe in soil that has been treated with salt or Copper Sulfate to inhibit weed growth. This is a common practice among subdivision developers, causing widespread leakage in new subdivisions. I won't even mention the lawsuits that these problems have generated. It is something that every prospective home buyer should check out. Bugs |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concrete floor
|
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concretefloor
Hello Todd,
From the way you've posed the question, I can't tell whether you understand the basic electrical concepts involved. Let me just say that appliance ground faults are so common that a good part of the National Electrical Code (NEC) is devoted to protecting people from them. Breaking the ground connection exposes one to the very dangers that the ground connection was installed to protect against. Taking a shower is just not equivalent to removing the protection against appliance ground faults that the NEC requires. There is no electrical safety risk in taking a shower UNLESS there has been a grossly egregious wiring situation that would at a minimum violate the NEC and could be grounds for criminal negligence. I would not (and have not) advise everyone to call in an electrician before taking a shower. But I will advise everyone who wants to break his ground connection to be careful. I agree with the notion that no part of our existence is without some risk. Rationality therefore means we expend efforts to avoid a risk commensurate with the risk's probability. I think advising the OP to be damned careful when removing the protection required by the NEC because without that protection you might die goes well beyond the simple truism that nothing is without risk. Does that clarify my statement? Chuck todd wrote: "chuck" wrote in message link.net... There are two issues: Is it possible that lethal voltages might be found between the copper pipe and the grounding wire (when disconnected from the pipe, of course)? Absolutely! It is not likely, but it can and has happened. Second issue is what to do about it? You can carefully measure the voltage when the wire is disconnected, but you need the right kind of meter for that. Best, and easiest, approach is to clip a jumper between the grounding wire and the copper pipe before removing the clamp, etc. When you're finished, remove the jumper. Needless to say, potentially lethal voltages are a sign of a problem that ought to be diagnosed and corrected. They are not a normal condition. This is very definitely not in the same class as taking a shower! Good luck. Chuck I don't understand your last sentence. I'm saying that if you're gravely concerned about having a "potentially lethal" voltage connected to your plumbing pipe, then I'd avoid touching any of the plumbing in the house and I certainly wouldn't get soaking wet and stand in a shower lest the voltage decide I'm a better path to ground. Is there a non-zero risk of dying from doing this? Yes, there is. So while we're at it, why don't we have the OP wear linesman's gloves and use a hot stick to install the clamp? todd |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concretefloor
Steve A wrote:
As a plumber, I have run into about 4 cases of the water bond having enough voltage to give me a good tingle when it was disconnected. We have learned to use automotive jumper cables to jumper ground wire to water service while bond clamp is being reconnected. Without going into great detail: You have to remember that wire - ALL wire - has resistance. So when you disconnect one, then current will take the path of least resistance to ground. If that happens to be through you... Anywhere you are in the circuit may just be a shorter path. More complications follow; Your house ground is connected in your panel to the big block where the return, or neutral, wire is connected. This wire is a current carrier, and if you disconnect house ground, you are creating a *floating ground* in your whole house system. This makes the "ground" a part of the live current-carrying circuit, even if there are no direct problems with the circuit otherwise. This is a *potentially* very dangerous condition, especially because you don't yet know if there *is* any other problem. The potential for disaster in this case is probably fairly low in *most* houses, but in others, well, how do you know? Why play russian roulette? I would highly recommend turning the main breaker off while working to reconnect the ground. Being careful doesn't take any more time or effort than being stupid, but you'll get bitten less. When working on the electrical system of the house there can be problems due to faulty wiring, poor design (and you would be pretty surprised to find how many houses are wired really poorly), and grounds having resistance due to corrosion, dirt, etc. Also, due to electrical wiring having resistance, and more resistance over distance, you may find even *de-energized* circuits carrying current through you if you aren't careful (this is *usually* an example of poor design - not separating multiple circuits adequately - sharing neutrals/grounds, etc. and is very, very common in house wiring. Remember, I didn't say it was right, I said it was common). A case in point; I was recently working in a house replacing some switches and outlets. In one switch box, after de-energizing the appropriate breaker, I was pulling the white (neutral) wire out and my hand brushed up against the grounded wall box. I received a small, but quite noticeable electrical shock that made me run down to the basement to verify the right breaker was turned off and again check the circuit in the switch box with a meter. And sure enough, there was still a significant voltage present between the hot and neutral. In this case the circuit had the neutral tied into (shared) another circuit down the line, and that circuit had a light on - i.e.: the circuit was carrying current through the neutral. Due to resistance over distance (i.e.: resistance increases over distance in the wire), the distance between the open neutral I held - through me - to the grounded box, was shorter. This was of course something that we repaired. Since that time I double check every circuit I work on with a meter, and always look for inappropriate tie-ins in every box I open. BTW, while doing that, you would be surprised to find how many wire nuts aren't screwed on, and how many wires are just barely hanging on - a potential fire hazard. |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concrete floor
Since this has turned into an electrical thread I'll add this:
House I bought last year has the phone, cable, fuse box, etc 'grounded' to the incoming cold water pipe. Two problems with this: 1 No jumper wire going around the meter (minor) 2 The water supply line coming through the foundation is plastic! (OK probably not *plastic* but it is not metal) |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concretefloor
Bugs wrote
snip Don't use copper water pipe as an electrical ground. The transient currents can turn the pipe to Swiss cheese. snip About fifteen years ago I replaced the house ground and installed a deep copper grounding rod into the ground water level at my mom's house. I ran a heavy gage wire to the panel, and disconnected the ground from the water pipe. This produced a superior ground, and probably saved the pipes, which were experiencing corrosion from electrolosis. A few months ago, as my sisters were preparing the house for sale (mom passed on last year), they hired an electrician to do some work on the house. What do you think he did? Yup! He removed the earth ground (that was installed according to code, btw) and placed another ground back on the water pipe. Having tested the ground every year, there wasn't any problem with it, so who knows... |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concrete floor
"RayV" wrote in message oups.com... Since this has turned into an electrical thread I'll add this: House I bought last year has the phone, cable, fuse box, etc 'grounded' to the incoming cold water pipe. Two problems with this: 1 No jumper wire going around the meter (minor) 2 The water supply line coming through the foundation is plastic! (OK probably not *plastic* but it is not metal) I used to do on site audio recordings. As the engineer, it was my job to make sure that all equipment was properly grounded. Audio gear that is not grounded properly develops a very loud hum (60 cycle and more) that drowns out anything that you try to record. At least one half of the locations we recorded at did not have properly grounded plugs. I carried waterpipes in the van and drove them into the ground to get a good ground. I would connect the ground to the equipment. I also poured water on the pipes. This, of course, got people interested. Who is this crazy guy pounding pipes into the ground? I almost got arrested a couple of times because the security guys thought I was making up this wild grounding theory. They had never heard of it. I ended up carring around a reference book to point out the theory/science behind grounding. I also pointed out that their electrical was not up to code. And I could call it in. That usually shut them up. |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concrete floor
"chuck" wrote in message
ink.net... Hello Todd, From the way you've posed the question, I can't tell whether you understand the basic electrical concepts involved. You'll have to bear with me. I'm just a stupid mechanical engineer. Let me just say that appliance ground faults are so common that a good part of the National Electrical Code (NEC) is devoted to protecting people from them. Breaking the ground connection exposes one to the very dangers that the ground connection was installed to protect against. So what you're saying is that there could be an existing ground fault that is currently being sent to ground through the water pipe? I take that to mean that the ground, and thus the copper pipe it's bonded to, is energized. Taking a shower is just not equivalent to removing the protection against appliance ground faults that the NEC requires. I'm not sure if you're referring to removing the protection permanently or long enough to put a proper clamp back on. I assumed the OP was talking about removing the ground connection just long enough to get it attached back to the pipe with a clamp. My assertion was that if there was enough voltage present in the ground wire to kill you, that you probably had other worries in addition. If that was the case, I wouldn't handle anything connected to the plumbing fixtures until the situation was corrected. Perhaps I'm wrong. Most of my work-related electrical experience was in a slightly higher range of 15-500kV when I designed insulators for distribution, sub-transmission, and transmission lines where the electrical problems encountered were somewhat different. By the way, for the OP, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that, at least around here, the ground is connected to the water line on just this side of the meter. Then, another ground wire bridges the meter so that the ground would still be in place in case the meter was removed. todd |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concrete floor
You should have made him put it back!
WL "Sailaway" wrote in message ... Bugs wrote snip Don't use copper water pipe as an electrical ground. The transient currents can turn the pipe to Swiss cheese. snip About fifteen years ago I replaced the house ground and installed a deep copper grounding rod into the ground water level at my mom's house. I ran a heavy gage wire to the panel, and disconnected the ground from the water pipe. This produced a superior ground, and probably saved the pipes, which were experiencing corrosion from electrolosis. A few months ago, as my sisters were preparing the house for sale (mom passed on last year), they hired an electrician to do some work on the house. What do you think he did? Yup! He removed the earth ground (that was installed according to code, btw) and placed another ground back on the water pipe. Having tested the ground every year, there wasn't any problem with it, so who knows... |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concretefloor
todd wrote:
"chuck" wrote in message ink.net... Hello Todd, From the way you've posed the question, I can't tell whether you understand the basic electrical concepts involved. You'll have to bear with me. I'm just a stupid mechanical engineer. Let me just say that appliance ground faults are so common that a good part of the National Electrical Code (NEC) is devoted to protecting people from them. Breaking the ground connection exposes one to the very dangers that the ground connection was installed to protect against. So what you're saying is that there could be an existing ground fault that is currently being sent to ground through the water pipe? I take that to mean that the ground, and thus the copper pipe it's bonded to, is energized. Todd, I think we're probably using different terminology. But yes, I'd be willing to agree the copper pipe is energized, in the sense that the assumed ground fault current is flowing through it. In the eye of the NEC, there is a connection at the service entrance between the green grounding wire and the white neutral and ground. An appliance ground fault current SHOULD flow through the green grounding conductor to the service entrance, and from there, take the path of least resistance through that neutral wire back to the transformer on the pole. Of course the higher resistance path through the ground is in parallel with the neutral wire, so you get some current through the ground as well. It is normally not a good thing for there to be a lot of current through the ground, and its presence could indicate a problem with the neutral connection, etc. Taking a shower is just not equivalent to removing the protection against appliance ground faults that the NEC requires. I'm not sure if you're referring to removing the protection permanently or long enough to put a proper clamp back on. I assumed the OP was talking about removing the ground connection just long enough to get it attached back to the pipe with a clamp. Yes, the latter is what I assumed also. My assertion was that if there was enough voltage present in the ground wire to kill you, that you probably had other worries in addition. Agreed. Except that there is no voltage to speak of on the ground wire while it is connected to the copper pipe (i.e., to ground). There is a current through the wire. When the connection to the pipe is broken, at that time a voltage is present between the pipe and the wire. Placing yourself across that voltage is what could be hazardous. If that was the case, I wouldn't handle anything connected to the plumbing fixtures until the situation was corrected. Well, touching the plumbing fixtures should be safe because they are essentially at ground potential, again due to the copper pipe connection. That is a benefit of the grounding system. But if currents are detected in the grounding wire, something is amiss and maybe should be corrected. Perhaps I'm wrong. Most of my work-related electrical experience was in a slightly higher range of 15-500kV when I designed insulators for distribution, sub-transmission, and transmission lines where the electrical problems encountered were somewhat different. Fascinating. I'd be lost in that area. By the way, for the OP, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that, at least around here, the ground is connected to the water line on just this side of the meter. Then, another ground wire bridges the meter so that the ground would still be in place in case the meter was removed. The reason for that jumper is more likely that the meter itself does not represent a good, low-resistance path. You see those jumpers around plastic-bodied filters also. In the past, service entrance grounds were often connected to metal plumbing systems. In many cases these systems were "upgraded" to plastic, and the residence was left without any ground connection at all! FWIW, with so much PVC in use in new construction, the NEC now requires a dedicated ground rod or two at the service entrance. todd Chuck |
My own stupid electrical question / filling hole in concretefloor
Wilson wrote:
You should have made him put it back! WL "Sailaway" wrote in message ... Bugs wrote snip Don't use copper water pipe as an electrical ground. The transient currents can turn the pipe to Swiss cheese. snip About fifteen years ago I replaced the house ground and installed a deep copper grounding rod into the ground water level at my mom's house. I ran a heavy gage wire to the panel, and disconnected the ground from the water pipe. This produced a superior ground, and probably saved the pipes, which were experiencing corrosion from electrolosis. A few months ago, as my sisters were preparing the house for sale (mom passed on last year), they hired an electrician to do some work on the house. What do you think he did? Yup! He removed the earth ground (that was installed according to code, btw) and placed another ground back on the water pipe. Having tested the ground every year, there wasn't any problem with it, so who knows... Couldn't do that. My sisters are taking care of things because they live close to there, and I also don't want to **** them off :) |
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