In answering a workshop question I thought some of you might have some ideas
on a rural driveway down to my new shop.

The deal is I'm trying to save money and trees. If I do the normal clearing
they'll take out more trees than the minimum and they'll have the land all
torn up removing the stumps. Most of the top ones are good sized pines and
then hardwoods usually 18-24" after that.

So, I'm wondering about cutting the trees as ground close as possible and
just covering with ABC stone. When they rot I'd just fill with more ABC. I
think it's going to be too expensive to have a stump grinder go even lower.
Probably be about 250' of road.

Thanks for the thoughts
TomNie

"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...
In answering a workshop question I thought some of you might have some
ideas
on a rural driveway down to my new shop.

The deal is I'm trying to save money and trees. If I do the normal
clearing
they'll take out more trees than the minimum and they'll have the land all
torn up removing the stumps. Most of the top ones are good sized pines and
then hardwoods usually 18-24" after that.

So, I'm wondering about cutting the trees as ground close as possible and
just covering with ABC stone. When they rot I'd just fill with more ABC. I
think it's going to be too expensive to have a stump grinder go even
lower.
Probably be about 250' of road.

Thanks for the thoughts
TomNie



It's amazing the things one sees here. Well... you are at least aware that
you're going to end up with problems as the stumps rot. How much stone are
you contemplating over the ground and stumps? Are you planning on cutting
the top few inches of organic material off before putting down the stone?
You'll likely end up with a soft driveway if you don't. Build on an organic
base and you'll pump that crap up through during the wetter periods. Get
enough pumping going on and your stone will just become a part of a nasty
quagmire.

What do you mean by ABC stone? I've never heard that phrase before.

There's no reason to take too many trees. Saw down, or have someone saw
only the trees you want removed. I would take the stumps out. You won't
end up with unmanageable holes, but you *will* be doing the job the right
way. Any dozer operator, or hoe operator will cuff off the area around the
driveway and leave it in a very presentable condition, so you shouldn't be
concerned about the land being all torn up. My driveway is 350 long and
wanders up through the woods to the house. It's only wide enough for the
driveway and the trees come right up to the edge. There's no reason yours
can't be the same. Do remember that if you expect big trucks up your
driveway, or if you have to deal with snow, or any of a host of other
considerations, you'll want to build a driveway that is 12' wide. Want to
make life miserable for a delivery driver? Build an 8' wide driveway that
winds up through the oh-so-pretty trees. Imagine yourself having to back
that truck up that driveway.

You laid out the "save money" line, so I'll talk to that for a second.
Don't get so focused on saving a penny that you screw yourself by telling a
dozer operator what to do or not do. You'll just be posting here in 6
months, complaining about the rotten job you got. All because you tried to
take it on the cheap. A workman is worth his wages, and you'll be set for
life if you just do the job right up front and don't try to save too many
pennies. Tell him what you want, agree with him how it's going to be done
and let him do it. He'll likely have some very experienced advice to offer
you - you should listen to it.

--

-Mike-

"Puff Griffis" wrote in message
...

Remove the stump's and use crushed limestone WITH the dust. Tamp it well
and it will harden up well.

On top of 8" of bank run gravel.

--

-Mike-

Good thoughts and appreciated. The organic bit was a concern I had that you
confirmed. It'd have to be removed before the stumps cut down, if I went
that way, otherwise I'd just be revealing more stump. One thought put forth
was 5" of stone.

ABC stone is a crushed mixture that packs like concrete. NC DOT uses it a
lot and it's fairly reasonably priced.

The dozer guy who cleared the stumps for the house insisted on them being
about 4' proud and then had some he walked the dozer around trying to get
'em loose. That's why I'd expect them to tear up the surrounding area when
they get to a decent sized one. I agree mightily about 12' wide. F350 dually
longbed with a gooseneck ain't too cool on a 8' driveway.

TomNie

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...
In answering a workshop question I thought some of you might have some
ideas
on a rural driveway down to my new shop.

The deal is I'm trying to save money and trees. If I do the normal
clearing
they'll take out more trees than the minimum and they'll have the land
all
torn up removing the stumps. Most of the top ones are good sized pines
and
then hardwoods usually 18-24" after that.

So, I'm wondering about cutting the trees as ground close as possible and
just covering with ABC stone. When they rot I'd just fill with more ABC.
I
think it's going to be too expensive to have a stump grinder go even
lower.
Probably be about 250' of road.

Thanks for the thoughts
TomNie



It's amazing the things one sees here. Well... you are at least aware
that
you're going to end up with problems as the stumps rot. How much stone
are
you contemplating over the ground and stumps? Are you planning on cutting
the top few inches of organic material off before putting down the stone?
You'll likely end up with a soft driveway if you don't. Build on an
organic
base and you'll pump that crap up through during the wetter periods. Get
enough pumping going on and your stone will just become a part of a nasty
quagmire.

What do you mean by ABC stone? I've never heard that phrase before.

There's no reason to take too many trees. Saw down, or have someone saw
only the trees you want removed. I would take the stumps out. You won't
end up with unmanageable holes, but you *will* be doing the job the right
way. Any dozer operator, or hoe operator will cuff off the area around
the
driveway and leave it in a very presentable condition, so you shouldn't be
concerned about the land being all torn up. My driveway is 350 long and
wanders up through the woods to the house. It's only wide enough for the
driveway and the trees come right up to the edge. There's no reason yours
can't be the same. Do remember that if you expect big trucks up your
driveway, or if you have to deal with snow, or any of a host of other
considerations, you'll want to build a driveway that is 12' wide. Want to
make life miserable for a delivery driver? Build an 8' wide driveway that
winds up through the oh-so-pretty trees. Imagine yourself having to back
that truck up that driveway.

You laid out the "save money" line, so I'll talk to that for a second.
Don't get so focused on saving a penny that you screw yourself by telling
a
dozer operator what to do or not do. You'll just be posting here in 6
months, complaining about the rotten job you got. All because you tried
to
take it on the cheap. A workman is worth his wages, and you'll be set for
life if you just do the job right up front and don't try to save too many
pennies. Tell him what you want, agree with him how it's going to be done
and let him do it. He'll likely have some very experienced advice to
offer
you - you should listen to it.

--

-Mike-

"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...

Good thoughts and appreciated. The organic bit was a concern I had that
you
confirmed. It'd have to be removed before the stumps cut down, if I went
that way, otherwise I'd just be revealing more stump. One thought put
forth
was 5" of stone.

ABC stone is a crushed mixture that packs like concrete. NC DOT uses it a
lot and it's fairly reasonably priced.

Is it crushed limestone? If so, it can't be beat.


The dozer guy who cleared the stumps for the house insisted on them being
about 4' proud and then had some he walked the dozer around trying to get
'em loose. That's why I'd expect them to tear up the surrounding area when
they get to a decent sized one. I agree mightily about 12' wide. F350
dually
longbed with a gooseneck ain't too cool on a 8' driveway.


4' would be about right for a dozer. It needs a leverage point to push
against. A backhoe will dig them out without leaving 4' standing. As well,
a hoe won't have to get around the stump as much as a dozer will. My
strongest recommendation would be to hog out the stumps with a hoe and then
bring the dozer in to do the cuts and fills. Cut the organic out until you
hit good sub-base, then bring in bank run gravel to bring yourself to within
3-5" of finish grade. With 8" of bank run on top of a good, clean sub-base,
and well compacted, you can get by with just 3" of crushed limestone and
never have a problem for years. If you live in snow country you'll push
some of the limestone off every year, but you can rake it back. Some will
erode away from your car tires, especially on the turns. I re-topped my
driveway with just a skim coat (2") after it had been in place for about 13
or 14 years. It was still quite solid, but there were wear areas that just
needed some more crusher run.

--

-Mike-

Puff,
I think that's what ABC amounts to.
Mike,
Man, nobody puts down that much gravel around here. You sitting on
permafrost? I don't doubt it'd be the best way, though. Thing is, I'm
retired and trying to do this thing for charitable purposes mainly. I dream
of that shop being used for teaching and fellowship. Real rustic, with a
lean-to porch overlooking the bottoms where the deer hangout. Where these
Charlotte city folks can get a taste of nature and basics - kids and men.

TomNie

"Puff Griffis" wrote in message
...
Remove the stump's and use crushed limestone WITH the dust. Tamp it well and
it will harden up well.
Puff

"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...
In answering a workshop question I thought some of you might have some
ideas
on a rural driveway down to my new shop.

The deal is I'm trying to save money and trees. If I do the normal
clearing
they'll take out more trees than the minimum and they'll have the land all
torn up removing the stumps. Most of the top ones are good sized pines and
then hardwoods usually 18-24" after that.

So, I'm wondering about cutting the trees as ground close as possible and
just covering with ABC stone. When they rot I'd just fill with more ABC. I
think it's going to be too expensive to have a stump grinder go even
lower.
Probably be about 250' of road.

Thanks for the thoughts
TomNie

"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...

Mike,
Man, nobody puts down that much gravel around here. You sitting on
permafrost?

Sorry Tom - I'm in upstate NY and I didn't stop to think about where you'd
be located.


I don't doubt it'd be the best way, though. Thing is, I'm
retired and trying to do this thing for charitable purposes mainly. I
dream
of that shop being used for teaching and fellowship. Real rustic, with a
lean-to porch overlooking the bottoms where the deer hangout. Where these
Charlotte city folks can get a taste of nature and basics - kids and men.


In that case - they heck with the driveway Tom. Let 'em walk up a path!

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...

Mike,
Man, nobody puts down that much gravel around here. You sitting on
permafrost?

Sorry Tom - I'm in upstate NY and I didn't stop to think about where you'd
be located.


I don't doubt it'd be the best way, though. Thing is, I'm
retired and trying to do this thing for charitable purposes mainly. I
dream
of that shop being used for teaching and fellowship. Real rustic, with a
lean-to porch overlooking the bottoms where the deer hangout. Where these
Charlotte city folks can get a taste of nature and basics - kids and men.


In that case - they heck with the driveway Tom. Let 'em walk up a path!


Well, I need to have a septic system and head. Those guys insist on getting
their equipment in and I smoked for too many years to have my lungs be able
to carry the lumber in on my back! The trees are thick enough that the
4wheeler follows a snake path as it is.

--

-Mike-

Remove the stump's and use crushed limestone WITH the dust. Tamp it well and it will harden up well.
Puff

"Tom Nie" wrote in message ...
In answering a workshop question I thought some of you might have some ideas
on a rural driveway down to my new shop.

The deal is I'm trying to save money and trees. If I do the normal clearing
they'll take out more trees than the minimum and they'll have the land all
torn up removing the stumps. Most of the top ones are good sized pines and
then hardwoods usually 18-24" after that.

So, I'm wondering about cutting the trees as ground close as possible and
just covering with ABC stone. When they rot I'd just fill with more ABC. I
think it's going to be too expensive to have a stump grinder go even lower.
Probably be about 250' of road.

Thanks for the thoughts
TomNie

"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...
Good thoughts and appreciated. The organic bit was a concern I had that
you confirmed. It'd have to be removed before the stumps cut down, if I
went that way, otherwise I'd just be revealing more stump. One thought put
forth was 5" of stone.

ABC stone is a crushed mixture that packs like concrete. NC DOT uses it a
lot and it's fairly reasonably priced.

It's called RCA around here. Recycled Concrete Aggregate. I've never heard
of ABC stone.

Stone that's that deep will make waves and you'll be forever leveling it.

"Crusher run" is what we get...unsorted, so it has fines as well as some
gravel. The fines fill the voids and stabilize it.
Wilson
"ATP*" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...
Good thoughts and appreciated. The organic bit was a concern I had that
you confirmed. It'd have to be removed before the stumps cut down, if I
went that way, otherwise I'd just be revealing more stump. One thought
put forth was 5" of stone.

ABC stone is a crushed mixture that packs like concrete. NC DOT uses it a
lot and it's fairly reasonably priced.

It's called RCA around here. Recycled Concrete Aggregate. I've never heard
of ABC stone.

If there is a limestone quarry in your area and your planned driveway is
relatively flat, the best driveway that I've ever had was made of a 5 inch
layer of quarry dust...the fines from the crusher are perfect for driveway
use. It contains everything up to about 1/4 inch and packs to a hard flat
white surface after a couple of rainstorms. I had to rake level a couple of
small spots after the first rain, but then it stayed as flat as blacktop for
years without any maintenance. Grass won't grow in it either. The cost was
only what the trucker wanted for hauling it because the quarry was giving it
away. I wish I still lived there.

--
Charley


"Wilson" wrote in message
nk.net...
Stone that's that deep will make waves and you'll be forever leveling it.

"Crusher run" is what we get...unsorted, so it has fines as well as some
gravel. The fines fill the voids and stabilize it.
Wilson
"ATP*" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...
Good thoughts and appreciated. The organic bit was a concern I had that
you confirmed. It'd have to be removed before the stumps cut down, if I
went that way, otherwise I'd just be revealing more stump. One thought
put forth was 5" of stone.

ABC stone is a crushed mixture that packs like concrete. NC DOT uses it
a
lot and it's fairly reasonably priced.

It's called RCA around here. Recycled Concrete Aggregate. I've never
heard
of ABC stone.

Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 4:05pm (Tom*Nie) doth wonder:
snip they'll have the land all torn up removing the stumps. snip

Blow 'em.



JOAT
You only need two tools: WD-40, and duct tape. If it doesn't move and
it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape.

Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 5:29pm (Tom*Nie) doth claim:
snip Where these Charlotte city folks can get a taste of nature and
basics - kids and men.

You move to the country, then want to bring city people out there.
You need help. And, I'm not talking help from me.



JOAT
You only need two tools: WD-40, and duct tape. If it doesn't move and
it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape.

Sat, Jan 28, 2006, 10:08pm (EST+5) (Charley) doth
remember:
snip The cost was only what the trucker wanted for hauling it because
the quarry was giving it away. I wish I still lived there.

The operational word thee is "was". Crusher run used to be free
too - long ago. Then they found out people wanted it, and now it costs.



JOAT
You only need two tools: WD-40, and duct tape. If it doesn't move and
it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape.