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Posted to rec.woodworking
Tom Watson
 
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Default Drill Press Runout

I used to have a cheap Delta floor model drill press but it took up
more floor space than it was worth.

So, I bought a cheap Delta bench top drill press to replace it.

It's a 1/4 horse, made in Taiwan, with a No-Name chuck, and it was
made in 1990.

For most of its life it lived with a jig table on it that was for
drilling Euro-hinge holes. It was accurate enough for that and gave
good service.

Now I want to do some drilling that needs to be a bit more accurately
done.

I chucked up a new 25/64" twist bit and squared the table up to it,
using a Starrett 3" Engineer's Square that I use for setup work.

Then I checked the concentricity of the No-Name chuck, using a
Starrett Dial Indicator and Magnetic Base.

It started out at .003 and the best that I could get out of it was
..002, by smacking things around a little bit.

Then I set the Dial Indicator up to check the runout on the bit. I
set the tip to run on the plain part of the shaft, just above where
the flutes started, about 1" down from the jaws of the No-Name chuck.

The best I could get out of it was .003.

Question: Is it worth buying a piece of drill rod to set this Cheap
Thing up, or can I assume (or live with) the accuracy of the drill
bit's shaft? (Assumption: Said drill rod is $15.00)

Question 2: Can I reasonably expect accuracy greater than .002 out of
this Cheap Thing - or am I dreaming? (I might already be in tall
cotton and just don't know it)

Caveat: No way I'm buying a good chuck for this Cheap Thing. That
would be even crazier than most things that I do.

Caveat 2: The holes that I want to drill will be made with a #44 bit
and will only be 1" deep, into mild pine.

Caveat 3: I don't want to dismount the No-Name chuck on this Cheap
Thing - for that way madness lies.


Tia (not Carrere - sigh...)



Tom Watson

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
Frank Arthur
 
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Default Drill Press Runout

Runout of .003 is no problem for a drill press. It should have no effect
using your #44 drill in pine.

You are not dealing with a high precision boring machine.
Relax. Your drill is fine and will probably last another hundred years (if
you don't keep smacking it around).
Frank

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
I used to have a cheap Delta floor model drill press but it took up
more floor space than it was worth.

So, I bought a cheap Delta bench top drill press to replace it.

It's a 1/4 horse, made in Taiwan, with a No-Name chuck, and it was
made in 1990.

For most of its life it lived with a jig table on it that was for
drilling Euro-hinge holes. It was accurate enough for that and gave
good service.

Now I want to do some drilling that needs to be a bit more accurately
done.

I chucked up a new 25/64" twist bit and squared the table up to it,
using a Starrett 3" Engineer's Square that I use for setup work.

Then I checked the concentricity of the No-Name chuck, using a
Starrett Dial Indicator and Magnetic Base.

It started out at .003 and the best that I could get out of it was
.002, by smacking things around a little bit.

Then I set the Dial Indicator up to check the runout on the bit. I
set the tip to run on the plain part of the shaft, just above where
the flutes started, about 1" down from the jaws of the No-Name chuck.

The best I could get out of it was .003.

Question: Is it worth buying a piece of drill rod to set this Cheap
Thing up, or can I assume (or live with) the accuracy of the drill
bit's shaft? (Assumption: Said drill rod is $15.00)

Question 2: Can I reasonably expect accuracy greater than .002 out of
this Cheap Thing - or am I dreaming? (I might already be in tall
cotton and just don't know it)

Caveat: No way I'm buying a good chuck for this Cheap Thing. That
would be even crazier than most things that I do.

Caveat 2: The holes that I want to drill will be made with a #44 bit
and will only be 1" deep, into mild pine.

Caveat 3: I don't want to dismount the No-Name chuck on this Cheap
Thing - for that way madness lies.


Tia (not Carrere - sigh...)



Tom Watson

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/



  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
Teamcasa
 
Posts: n/a
Default Drill Press Runout


"Tom Watson"
snip
So, I bought a cheap Delta bench top drill press to replace it.
It's a 1/4 horse, made in Taiwan, with a No-Name chuck, and it was
made in 1990.

snip
Now I want to do some drilling that needs to be a bit more accurately
done.

snip
It started out at .003 and the best that I could get out of it was
.002, by smacking things around a little bit.

snip
Question: Is it worth buying a piece of drill rod to set this Cheap
Thing up, or can I assume (or live with) the accuracy of the drill
bit's shaft? (Assumption: Said drill rod is $15.00)


A drill is normally as straight as a drill rod.


Question 2: Can I reasonably expect accuracy greater than .002 out of
this Cheap Thing - or am I dreaming? (I might already be in tall
cotton and just don't know it)


On that DP, your good.

Caveat 2: The holes that I want to drill will be made with a #44 bit
and will only be 1" deep, into mild pine.

..003" in pine? Trust this, no one will ever know.

Dave



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  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
Jim Wilson
 
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Default Drill Press Runout

Tom Watson wrote (in part)...

It started out at .003 and the best that I could get out of it was
.002, by smacking things around a little bit.


The 0.002" you got is probably only temporary. Drill a few holes and
check it again to see if the improvement "sticks."

Secondly, 0.003" TIR is not horribly awful for a drill press. But where
did you measure? The outside of the chuck is not a good location. If you
can get your indicator on the taper that the chuck fits on, that's
better. Best is to remove the chuck adapter and check the spindle taper
directly.

If you have a threaded chuck, then you might not be able to isolate the
spindle error from the chuck error. But since you'll not replace the
chuck, anyway, there's really no need to isolate them.

FWIW, the spindle TIR is usually pretty low; under 0.001" is to be
expected. But once you insert the taper adapter, mount the chuck, and
chuck a rod, anything in the neighborhood of 0.003" or under is fine.

Then I set the Dial Indicator up to check the runout on the bit. I
set the tip to run on the plain part of the shaft, just above where
the flutes started, about 1" down from the jaws of the No-Name chuck.

The best I could get out of it was .003.


That was the most important test you can do, and 0.003" is reasonable for
a drill press. You can check up near the chuck jaws to see your minimum
runout. If it's significantly worse as the distance from the chuck
increases, you may have a dirty or bent taper adapter, or it could be the
chuck.

Question: Is it worth buying a piece of drill rod to set this Cheap
Thing up, or can I assume (or live with) the accuracy of the drill
bit's shaft? (Assumption: Said drill rod is $15.00)


Not if you have a good quality drill bit. If you *really* want a piece of
drill rod, I'll send you one. I've got far more worth than the postage
could possibly be from reading your stories here on the wreck.

Question 2: Can I reasonably expect accuracy greater than .002 out of
this Cheap Thing


Not really...

- or am I dreaming?


No, you're not dreaming, either. Better accuracy is possible; it's just
not worth the trouble (or expense). Drilling is simply not a precision
operation. Trying to make it one is futile.

Caveat 2: The holes that I want to drill will be made with a #44 bit
and will only be 1" deep, into mild pine.


There's the rub.

The grain in pine will deflect a #44 bit far more than 0.003", especially
over such a deep hole (over 11 times the diameter!). Here's some of what
will be working against you: Pine has a huge variation in hardness
between growth rings. The hole is small enough to fit between rings. The
bit is slender enough to be deflected by hard parts of the grain. The
twist-drill design has an angled cutting edge, which aids in the
deflection.

You can improve your accuracy far more with technique than you could
possibly by futzing with the machine. Use the finest grain stock you can.
Use the highest RPM your drill press can deliver. Use the sharpest drill
with the bluntest point angle (at least 135 degrees) you can find. Use a
pecking cycle: drill no more than four times the bit diameter before
withdrawing the drill to clear the flutes of chips (I'd go no more than
1/4" per peck).

If you really need to maximize accuracy, you have to use a different type
of bit. Your best bet might be a coring bit.

You ain't drilling pinewood derby blanks are ya? :-)

Jim
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Tom Watson
 
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Default Drill Press Runout

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:22:55 -0500, Tom Watson
wrote:

Thanks for the replies.

I'll live with it as it is.

As to Jim Wilson's inquiry:

"You ain't drilling pinewood derby blanks are ya? :-)"


Yah, You Betcha!


(watson - who never saw any need to question the accuracy of the thing
when it was about money - but, The PineyWood Derby? - that's several
orders of magnitude more important.)



Tom Watson - WoodDorker

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
Jim Wilson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Drill Press Runout

Tom Watson wrote...

(watson - who never saw any need to question the accuracy of the thing
when it was about money - but, The PineyWood Derby? - that's several
orders of magnitude more important.)


chuckle Thought I'd seen that problem before!

Here's another tip: Cut the dadoes in your blanks, and then drill the
holes. Either the saw or the router will do, whichever is easier for you
to get a 1/16" cutter into. If that's a toss-up for you, the saw is the
better option.

The biggest problem with the kit blanks is that the dadoes are
not often parallel to each other nor perpendicular to the sides. But the
dadoes really help guide the drill. So, dado 1/16" first, then drill
0.089".

Jim
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Posted to rec.woodworking
 
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Default Drill Press Runout


Tom Watson wrote:

......snip......
cheap Delta bench top drill press

......snip.....
Caveat: No way I'm buying a good chuck for this Cheap Thing. That
would be even crazier than most things that I do.




remember, that good chuck can be transferred to the good drill press
when you get it.

you *are* planning to get a good drill press someday, arent you?

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Posted to rec.woodworking
Tom Watson
 
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Default Drill Press Runout

On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:44:44 -0700, Jim Wilson
wrote:

Tom Watson wrote...

(watson - who never saw any need to question the accuracy of the thing
when it was about money - but, The PineyWood Derby? - that's several
orders of magnitude more important.)


chuckle Thought I'd seen that problem before!

Here's another tip: Cut the dadoes in your blanks, and then drill the
holes. Either the saw or the router will do, whichever is easier for you
to get a 1/16" cutter into. If that's a toss-up for you, the saw is the
better option.

The biggest problem with the kit blanks is that the dadoes are
not often parallel to each other nor perpendicular to the sides. But the
dadoes really help guide the drill. So, dado 1/16" first, then drill
0.089".

Jim



I have a kit left over from last year and one that I bought for this
year.

Neither of the blanks are square in section.

One of the blanks is quartersawn. (hooray!)

None of the grooves are square to the blanks.

The placement of the existing grooves does not allow for the maximum
possible wheelbase.

Both blanks are slightly longer than the allowed 7".

Out of eight wheels there are only two with the same mold numbers.

All of the wheels are out of round.

All of the axles/nails are uniformly non-uniform.


Our pack rules do not allow us to use other than the blanks, wheels
and nails that come with the kits but we are apparently allowed to
bring the wheels into round, although the treads have to stay flat.
We don't get involved with district level stuff, so I don't have to
worry about conforming to other than the pack's standards.

We figure on squaring up the quartersawn blank and planing off the
grooves. We'll set the axle holes with the drill press, drilling them
at the points that will allow the car to have the maximum wheelbase.

We'll take the snags off the nails, relieve a portion that will be
within the wheel hub, so as to remove most of the contact area, true
them up a bit and polish.

We'll make two cars. I'll take the lesser blank and my son will take
the quartersawn. I think that if I do a step on mine and have him
replicate it on his he'll learn a good deal.

I was going to use the bandsaw to rough out the blanks but I'm afraid
to let my eight year old use it and don't want to do what he can't do,
so we'll rough out with a coping saw.

I'm not so scared of him using the drill press, which will do a lot of
the work, so he should be able to do most of that work on his own,
with me doing the setups.

He's going to design the body, sand it by hand, paint it and decorate
it.

I've got a spray booth but don't have a mask that will fit him, so it
looks to be a brushed finish.

I hope that the boy comes out of this with a basic understanding of
the physics of potential energy and friction. I hope he begins to
develop a sense of orderly work habits. I hope he gets a little more
comfortable with the tools than he already is.

And I hope that he has big big fun!


We're going decal shopping this weekend. I'm pretty sure that this
will be the most important element of the car to him.



Tom Watson - WoodDorker

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
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Posted to rec.woodworking
 
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Default Drill Press Runout

Tom Watson wrote:

I've got a spray booth but don't have a mask that will fit him, so it
looks to be a brushed finish.


I'd suggest sending him out to the driveway with a few colors of rattle
can, an exacto knife, and roll of wide masking tape. He can make pin
stripes, flames, or pretty much whatever design he wants with a little
creative masking. Good time to teach him about the importance of a good
coat of primer and a final coat of paste wax too.

(My cars never won, but they always looked the fastest. ;-))

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