Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)
 

There is a high-end retailer of woodworking equipment here in SE
Michigan, a place that actually assembles their showroom equipment
"professionally" because they know it reflects well on the equipment if
it looks like it all fits together.

I was in there this past week getting some fingerprints on their stuff,
and they had a bright shiny Delta 36-717 on display. This is one of
the new hybrid saws Delta was eight months behind schedule bringing to
market.

Someone recently posted a question regarding this saw, and not many
people replied with answers.

Well, based on the store owner's answers, I can tell you Delta's long
march down the Black and Decker drain is well on its way.

He said the assembly of the saw was a nightmare. The fence didn't fit
at all...he had to tap all new holes in the wings to get it onto the
saw. He also said none of the rest of it went together right at all
either. One bad fit after another...an excersize in frustration.

His words, his experience verbatim.

Who here thinks Delta can save themselves?

Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)
 

On 26 Nov 2005 20:42:50 -0800, wrote:

There is a high-end retailer of woodworking equipment here in SE
Michigan, a place that actually assembles their showroom equipment
"professionally" because they know it reflects well on the equipment if
it looks like it all fits together.

I was in there this past week getting some fingerprints on their stuff,
and they had a bright shiny Delta 36-717 on display. This is one of
the new hybrid saws Delta was eight months behind schedule bringing to
market.

Someone recently posted a question regarding this saw, and not many
people replied with answers.

Well, based on the store owner's answers, I can tell you Delta's long
march down the Black and Decker drain is well on its way.

He said the assembly of the saw was a nightmare. The fence didn't fit
at all...he had to tap all new holes in the wings to get it onto the
saw. He also said none of the rest of it went together right at all
either. One bad fit after another...an excersize in frustration.

His words, his experience verbatim.

Who here thinks Delta can save themselves?

Sounds like an opportunity for a dealer to start stocking NOS (new old
stock) Delta parts and for manufacturers to start exploring the possiblity
of building OEM-spec replacement parts for the real iron that Delta used to
build.

As for the Delta brand, given all the commentary given here, including
the thread on no longer stocking old parts -- it looks like they are intent
upon following the path of Craftsman -- exploit the name for all it's worth
for as many years as possible until buyers start to catch on to the
"value-engineering" taking place. It will probably take a while, there are
going to be a number of years where the average Joe is going to look at
tools at the local Borg and say to himself, "Wow! I had no idea I'd ever be
able to afford a *Delta* [insert tool here], and here I thought I'd only be
able to get a Black & Decker!" More than likely, for the average Joe, that
Delta will be better than he could have gotten in a really cheap brand, but
will no longer have the quality to satisfy serious hobby woodworkers or
smaller volume professionals. In fairness to B&D, if they are looking for
high volume, this is probably the way to go; while some of us are very much
value and quality-oriented buyers for good WW equipment, we are a small
minority compared to others. Since B&D ruined their name years ago, their
only choice is to find another untainted name to take down the same path.

If I look at my buying habits regarding electronic equipment, I probably
fall into the "average Joe" category in that realm, so I do understand
people looking for the best quality they can afford at a cheap price.
Unfortunately, what is happening to Delta is hitting me in my "serious
hobby" category -- I don't like that.

As someone with a shop full of Delta tools, I know that my satisfaction
with their quality started going way down after buying the hollow chisel
mortiser -- Delta is no longer #1 on my list of preferred tool suppliers.



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)
 

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message

As someone with a shop full of Delta tools, I know that my satisfaction
with their quality started going way down after buying the hollow chisel
mortiser -- Delta is no longer #1 on my list of preferred tool suppliers.

Ditto, on the same tool, AAMOF ... the handles of the hold downs break as if
they were matchsticks.

I've also had a similar problem with the knobs on a Porter Cable 7529 router
I bought at a garage sale a few months back. The difference in quality
between it and the older PC routers I own is noticeable.

I was raised to take good care of tools, and one of the foremost reasons was
that they represented the spending of money that was hard to come by.

Add another incentive ... they can no longer be replaced at any price.

I keep marveling at how prescient Orwell was in "1984" ... and I'll say it
again - the effect of B & D taking over Delta is analogous to Home Depot
taking over Lee Valley.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)
 

I keep marveling at how prescient Orwell was in "1984" ... and I'll say it
again - the effect of B & D taking over Delta is analogous to Home Depot
taking over Lee Valley.


A pox on you for even thinking it

Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)
 

Swingman wrote:

I keep marveling at how prescient Orwell was in "1984" ... and I'll say it
again - the effect of B & D taking over Delta is analogous to Home Depot
taking over Lee Valley.


Oh, man. I already had an upset stomach keeping me home. I don't have
any problem with B&D tools in the proper atmosphere (just got a new
Workmate 425, in fact), but I sure hope your analogy nevers come close
to being true.

Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)
 

Mark & Juanita wrote:
On 26 Nov 2005 20:42:50 -0800, wrote:

There is a high-end retailer of woodworking equipment here in SE
Michigan, a place that actually assembles their showroom equipment
"professionally" because they know it reflects well on the equipment if
it looks like it all fits together.

I was in there this past week getting some fingerprints on their stuff,
and they had a bright shiny Delta 36-717 on display. This is one of
the new hybrid saws Delta was eight months behind schedule bringing to
market.

Someone recently posted a question regarding this saw, and not many
people replied with answers.

Well, based on the store owner's answers, I can tell you Delta's long
march down the Black and Decker drain is well on its way.

He said the assembly of the saw was a nightmare. The fence didn't fit
at all...he had to tap all new holes in the wings to get it onto the
saw. He also said none of the rest of it went together right at all
either. One bad fit after another...an excersize in frustration.

His words, his experience verbatim.

Who here thinks Delta can save themselves?

Sounds like an opportunity for a dealer to start stocking NOS (new old
stock) Delta parts and for manufacturers to start exploring the possiblity
of building OEM-spec replacement parts for the real iron that Delta used to
build.

As for the Delta brand, given all the commentary given here, including
the thread on no longer stocking old parts -- it looks like they are intent
upon following the path of Craftsman --

In all fairness, and to stick with hybrid saws, I got a Craftsman
hybrid last year. With one exception, it went together easily,
everything fit, and it has served for about 15 months without a glitch.
The exception was the rear extension table arm, and that was as much my
fault as anything: I had one of those days when I could have tipped a
child's alphabet block to show the correct letter.

Of course, that saw was designed by a bunch old Delta hands...

Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)
 

"Charlie Self" wrote in message

Swingman wrote:

I keep marveling at how prescient Orwell was in "1984" ... and I'll say
it
again - the effect of B & D taking over Delta is analogous to Home Depot
taking over Lee Valley.


Oh, man. I already had an upset stomach keeping me home. I don't have
any problem with B&D tools in the proper atmosphere (just got a new
Workmate 425, in fact), but I sure hope your analogy nevers come close
to being true.

You and me both. But we have both lived long enough to realize that the
driving force behind a company the likes of LV is mortal, and therefore
fragile ... did you ever think you'd see a Ford Jaguar?

Since the subject came up, I just went out to the shop and performed an
"upgrade" to the height adjustment rod of my PC 7529 plunge base router (I
replaced the plastic tightening "knob" with a 7/16" nut).

Since I only paid $40 for it at a garage sale, I don't feel too bad about it
being shoddier than my older PC routers, but it sure gives you an accurate
gauge of just how far down the quality ladder PC has come in the last 5 to
10 years, particularly when compared, side by side, to the plunge base I
bought for the 690's when PC first came out with it.

It's an excellent benchmark. The difference is quality is startling.

Makes you pity all the new woodworkers joining the ranks who, from lack of
perspective, are oblivious to the difference.

Hope you get to feeling better ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)
 

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
ups.com...

Mark & Juanita wrote:
On 26 Nov 2005 20:42:50 -0800, wrote:

As for the Delta brand, given all the commentary given here, including
the thread on no longer stocking old parts -- it looks like they are
intent
upon following the path of Craftsman --

In all fairness, and to stick with hybrid saws, I got a Craftsman
hybrid last year. With one exception, it went together easily,
everything fit, and it has served for about 15 months without a glitch.
The exception was the rear extension table arm, and that was as much my
fault as anything: I had one of those days when I could have tipped a
child's alphabet block to show the correct letter.

Of course, that saw was designed by a bunch old Delta hands...

I suspect that there are going to be a bunch of old Delta hands working
elsewhere soon.
Jim

Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)
 

On 27 Nov 2005 06:48:32 -0800, "Charlie Self" wrote:


Mark & Juanita wrote:
On 26 Nov 2005 20:42:50 -0800, wrote:

... snip
As for the Delta brand, given all the commentary given here, including
the thread on no longer stocking old parts -- it looks like they are intent
upon following the path of Craftsman --

In all fairness, and to stick with hybrid saws, I got a Craftsman
hybrid last year. With one exception, it went together easily,
everything fit, and it has served for about 15 months without a glitch.
The exception was the rear extension table arm, and that was as much my
fault as anything: I had one of those days when I could have tipped a
child's alphabet block to show the correct letter.

Of course, that saw was designed by a bunch old Delta hands...

Let me clarify, I understand that it appears that Sears is trying to
resurrect the Craftsman brand and restore some of its tarnished image; I
should have been more clear -- I was referring to the path that Sears had
traveled the past 20 to 30 years, with decreasing quality and lowered price
points.

It's good to hear that Craftsman may become a good tool brand again.




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)
 

Lets hope they keep the Unisaw up to standard, from what I have heard the
new saw is an import. Not to say imports are bad, but they sure can be. I
have a lot more dealings with metal working tools than wood but some imports
are good others aren't. I sold a Takisawi lathe that was as good as they
get, right up there with the best machines from anywhere. I would be sad to
see the Delta name go down the toilet, I have a few of there machines and
they serve me very good.
"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
...
On 27 Nov 2005 06:48:32 -0800, "Charlie Self" wrote:


Mark & Juanita wrote:
On 26 Nov 2005 20:42:50 -0800, wrote:

.. snip
As for the Delta brand, given all the commentary given here, including
the thread on no longer stocking old parts -- it looks like they are
intent
upon following the path of Craftsman --

In all fairness, and to stick with hybrid saws, I got a Craftsman
hybrid last year. With one exception, it went together easily,
everything fit, and it has served for about 15 months without a glitch.
The exception was the rear extension table arm, and that was as much my
fault as anything: I had one of those days when I could have tipped a
child's alphabet block to show the correct letter.

Of course, that saw was designed by a bunch old Delta hands...

Let me clarify, I understand that it appears that Sears is trying to
resurrect the Craftsman brand and restore some of its tarnished image; I
should have been more clear -- I was referring to the path that Sears had
traveled the past 20 to 30 years, with decreasing quality and lowered
price
points.

It's good to hear that Craftsman may become a good tool brand again.




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)
 

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:48:11 GMT, "Jim" wrote:


"Charlie Self" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mark & Juanita wrote:
On 26 Nov 2005 20:42:50 -0800, wrote:

As for the Delta brand, given all the commentary given here, including
the thread on no longer stocking old parts -- it looks like they are
intent
upon following the path of Craftsman --

In all fairness, and to stick with hybrid saws, I got a Craftsman
hybrid last year. With one exception, it went together easily,
everything fit, and it has served for about 15 months without a glitch.
The exception was the rear extension table arm, and that was as much my
fault as anything: I had one of those days when I could have tipped a
child's alphabet block to show the correct letter.

Of course, that saw was designed by a bunch old Delta hands...

I suspect that there are going to be a bunch of old Delta hands working
elsewhere soon.
Jim

Not soon my friend, but already.

Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)
 

Swingman wrote:
"Charlie Self" wrote in message

Swingman wrote:

I keep marveling at how prescient Orwell was in "1984" ... and I'll say
it
again - the effect of B & D taking over Delta is analogous to Home Depot
taking over Lee Valley.


Oh, man. I already had an upset stomach keeping me home. I don't have
any problem with B&D tools in the proper atmosphere (just got a new
Workmate 425, in fact), but I sure hope your analogy nevers come close
to being true.

You and me both. But we have both lived long enough to realize that the
driving force behind a company the likes of LV is mortal, and therefore
fragile ... did you ever think you'd see a Ford Jaguar?

Since the subject came up, I just went out to the shop and performed an
"upgrade" to the height adjustment rod of my PC 7529 plunge base router (I
replaced the plastic tightening "knob" with a 7/16" nut).

Since I only paid $40 for it at a garage sale, I don't feel too bad about it
being shoddier than my older PC routers, but it sure gives you an accurate
gauge of just how far down the quality ladder PC has come in the last 5 to
10 years, particularly when compared, side by side, to the plunge base I
bought for the 690's when PC first came out with it.

It's an excellent benchmark. The difference is quality is startling.

Makes you pity all the new woodworkers joining the ranks who, from lack of
perspective, are oblivious to the difference.

Hope you get to feeling better ...


Let's hope that one or more of Rob's children show an interest in, and
talent for, the business.

Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)
 

Charlie Self said:

Let's hope that one or more of Rob's children show an interest in, and
talent for, the business.

One can only hope.
But it's been my experience that successful businessmen often have
children who are far more interested in the money than the business.


Greg G.

Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)
 

Greg G. wrote:
Charlie Self said:

Let's hope that one or more of Rob's children show an interest in, and
talent for, the business.

One can only hope.
But it's been my experience that successful businessmen often have
children who are far more interested in the money than the business.


I dunno. Most often the ones I've seen, in the very few family run and
owned businesses I've seen, simply have children who have no interest
in the business. In one particular case, I don't believe it was money.
All the children were successful on their own, but simply did not wish
to be in the manufacturing business. The father had to sell out to a
much larger company because of a lack of smaller, family-oriented
buyers.