I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans called
for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of overhead
clearance.

Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

In an ideal world, the walls would be 12 to 15 feet high, but I don't have
the budget for that.

Brian Elfert

Brian Elfert wrote:


Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

They would be from this guy's POV. I work under 7' ceilings. G

Remember, you're probably going to have lights, DC tubes, etc...
hanging, so the extra space would be worth it for the net height.

I've found areas with higher ceilings easier to light, as the light can
spread out more before it reaches bench and tool tops. You may need
fewer lights with 10' vs. 9' ceilings.

You could always add some sort of ceiling fan(s) to help with heating
and cooling.

10' ceilings... drool...

B a r r y writes:

Brian Elfert wrote:


Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

They would be from this guy's POV. I work under 7' ceilings. G

Remember, you're probably going to have lights, DC tubes, etc...
hanging, so the extra space would be worth it for the net height.

I forgot about DC piping. That was going to run up high in my vaulted
ceiling. I should plan on 10' walls and can go back to 9' later if things
change.

Brian Elfert

Brian Elfert wrote:

I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans called
for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of overhead
clearance.

Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

In an ideal world, the walls would be 12 to 15 feet high, but I don't have
the budget for that.

Brian Elfert
I've got almost 9' ceilings and find them too low.

Dave

In article ,
Brian Elfert wrote:

I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans called
for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of overhead
clearance.

Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

In an ideal world, the walls would be 12 to 15 feet high, but I don't have
the budget for that.

Brian Elfert

9' ceiling is sometimes too low for flipping big countertops.
go for 10'. It will be a little easier to light, and if insulated
properly, some recirc fans will make sure the heating bill won't
increase.

A standard sheet of MDF measures 108 11/16" on the diagonal.
You can't manipulate, freely, one of those in a 9' height.

Building tables and chairs won't give you any grief...unless you want to
store those 12' cherry boards vertically..G

Make it 10 feet, Brian.....

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:59:58 -0000, Brian Elfert
wrote:

I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans called
for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of overhead
clearance.

Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

In an ideal world, the walls would be 12 to 15 feet high, but I don't have
the budget for that.

If you're framing, twobys come 8', 10' 12'....

You're gonna have to buy 10 footers anyway aren't you?

Wes Stewart wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:59:58 -0000, Brian Elfert
wrote:

I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans called
for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of overhead
clearance.

Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

In an ideal world, the walls would be 12 to 15 feet high, but I don't have
the budget for that.

If you're framing, twobys come 8', 10' 12'....

You're gonna have to buy 10 footers anyway aren't you?

You can also get sheetrock in other than 4x8 sizes to match...If I were
going from scratch, I'd go the 10'.

It is going to depend on what the majority of your work is.

I make little music boxes so I could manage with a 7' ceiling.

If you are handling large cabinets, long countertops the extra height
will give you clearance on overhead lights, heating ductowrk etc.

In my area the choice would be 8' or 10' for wall stud construction
since those are the standard lengths available. Ceiling fans or a
recirculating duct and fan will help your heating costs.

I would do 10' with 2x6's as studs. The "extra" cost will not
even be noticed and that extra room in the wall can be super
insulated. Super strong and roomy. I have 12' ceiling and that
is excellent. I truly regret not using 2x6's when I had the
chance.

Brian Elfert wrote:

I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans called
for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of overhead
clearance.

Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

In an ideal world, the walls would be 12 to 15 feet high, but I don't have
the budget for that.

Brian Elfert

Wes Stewart writes:

If you're framing, twobys come 8', 10' 12'....

You're gonna have to buy 10 footers anyway aren't you?

They make 104 5/8" precut studs in both 2x4s and 2x6s. 9' walls would be
easier than 10' unless I don't cut the 10 footers and go to 10 1/2' or so.

Brian Elfert

I built my shop with 10' celings with 2x6 studs on recommendation of a
neighbor. I don't regret it for a moment. I can flip 4x8 sheet goods
end-for-end without hitting the lights (or DC system once I put one in)
which I could not do with 8' or 9' ceilings. It's as cheap to do 10' as 9'
and, with insulated 2x6 walls, you won't notice the difference in heating or
cooling.

"Brian Elfert" wrote in message
...
I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans called
for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of overhead
clearance.

Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

In an ideal world, the walls would be 12 to 15 feet high, but I don't have
the budget for that.

Brian Elfert

I went from a shop w. 8' ceilings to one with 14' ceilings. It took me
..000008 seconds to get used to is.

Go for the 10'.

You won't regret it.

Bill

Pat Barber writes:

I would do 10' with 2x6's as studs. The "extra" cost will not
even be noticed and that extra room in the wall can be super
insulated. Super strong and roomy. I have 12' ceiling and that
is excellent. I truly regret not using 2x6's when I had the
chance.

I'm already ahead of you on the 2x6 studs. Energy costs aren't going down
any time soon.

I am most likely going to go with 10' walls even though the expense is not
insignificant. 10% more interior/exterior sheathing, siding, and studs
are required which is at least $1000 additional. $1000 doesn't sound like
much, but my budget for this building is tight.

Brian Elfert

Brian Elfert wrote:
I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans called
for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of overhead
clearance.

Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

In an ideal world, the walls would be 12 to 15 feet high, but I don't have
the budget for that.

Brian Elfert

I finished my shop a few years ago, with 9' ceilings (actually, closer
to 8' 10"), and I regret it. Stick the 10' measurement in, slop an
extra 4" of ceiling insulation in to reduce heating costs, and go.

The ONLY problem 10' ceilings create is changing light bulbs: you need
a ladder instead of a chair.

You won't spend that much more to go 10'. 2x4's are relatively
inexpensive and so is drywall. Your foundation and roof won't change at
all. I know it's more insulation and wiring etc. but how many times are
you going to get to build a shop from scratch.
Pick up a full piece of 4x8 plywood to move around and see how
high off the ground you lift it then figure how high the top of the
piece went. With lights and storage overhead you'll end up thinking
about 12' ceilings.
I think drywall can be special ordered in 5' wide pieces
(difficult for one guy to handle) but if you use regular 4x8 sheets
you'll split one to finish you your walls or if you go to 12' you
won't have to cut them at all.
Whatever you do I'll be jealous. I've got a 2 car garage that I
try to park one car regularly and everything is on wheels. I am happy
to have it but it would be nice to have permanent spots to park the
equipment on.
Robert


Brian Elfert wrote:
I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans called
for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of overhead
clearance.

Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

In an ideal world, the walls would be 12 to 15 feet high, but I don't have
the budget for that.

Brian Elfert

wrote:
It is going to depend on what the majority of your work is.

I make little music boxes so I could manage with a 7' ceiling.

I'd like, but not need, high ceilings making dollhouse furniture. G

Barry

"Brian Elfert" wrote in message
...
I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans called
for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of overhead
clearance.

Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

In an ideal world, the walls would be 12 to 15 feet high, but I don't have
the budget for that.

Brian Elfert

I doubt anyone would recommend 9 over 10. Build it as high as you can
afford. You won't regret it.
Dave



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Brian,

I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans
called for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of
overhead clearance.
Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling?
Are 10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling
expense?

When we built our garage, I made a 2' high concrete perimeter foundation.
Then I built standard 8' high walls on top of that. Once the slab was
poured and the ceiling sheetrocked, I ended up with just over 9-1/2 feet
of ceiling height.

This has worked out to a very comfortable height for me. I can stand
plywood sheets on end, and carry them around easily. I can rotate the
plywood sheet end for end and not hit the ceiling. I can stand 8' boards
upright against the wall (I have to set 10' boards at an angle, or lay
them flat). And, I can easily maneuver 7 foot high cabinets (pantry,
armoires, etc.).

I used low profile T8 Fluorescent lights on the ceiling, electronic
ballast, instant on, no flicker, good in cold weather. They only stick
down about 4 inches from the ceiling.

I used garage door tracks that sit a little closer to the ceiling, but
they still stick down about 1-1/2 feet from the ceiling. I've banged them
with a board once or twice, but since they only stick out 9' into my 28'
garage, they're not usually a problem.

I used 2x6 studs with R19 insulation, and a 4000 watt Cadet "Hot One"
electric heater will just keep it warm in there when I need heat. It's a
little undersized for the space (I should have about 6500 watts for my
650 sq/ft), but I don't need the heat very often, and 67-68 degrees feels
really warm when I'm busy working.

Anthony

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:59:58 -0000, Brian Elfert wrote:

I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans called
for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of overhead
clearance.

Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

In an ideal world, the walls would be 12 to 15 feet high, but I don't have
the budget for that.

Brian Elfert

Ok, I've got ceiling envy now... *g*

If it's affordable, I'd go 10'.....
If you work with sheet goods, picture flipping over a sheet of plywood and
catching a corner on a light fixture...

My work area is divided in 2 areas, one with 7' ceiling and the other with 9' or
so at the peak.. I find myself stepping outside the garage door to handle 8'
tow-bys and sheet goods...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:23:36 -0000, Brian Elfert wrote:

Pat Barber writes:

I would do 10' with 2x6's as studs. The "extra" cost will not
even be noticed and that extra room in the wall can be super
insulated. Super strong and roomy. I have 12' ceiling and that
is excellent. I truly regret not using 2x6's when I had the
chance.

I'm already ahead of you on the 2x6 studs. Energy costs aren't going down
any time soon.

I am most likely going to go with 10' walls even though the expense is not
insignificant. 10% more interior/exterior sheathing, siding, and studs
are required which is at least $1000 additional. $1000 doesn't sound like
much, but my budget for this building is tight.

Brian Elfert

Brian.. I know that you don't need help rationalizing, but use the same method
that we use to justify tools... $1,000 over the life of the shop, minus the cost
of light fixtures and stuff that you won't be breaking.. *lol*


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Brian Elfert" wrote in message
...
B a r r y writes:

Brian Elfert wrote:


Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

They would be from this guy's POV. I work under 7' ceilings. G

Remember, you're probably going to have lights, DC tubes, etc...
hanging, so the extra space would be worth it for the net height.

I forgot about DC piping. That was going to run up high in my vaulted
ceiling. I should plan on 10' walls and can go back to 9' later if things
change.

Brian Elfert

Regarding DC plumbing, consider building a raised wood floor and run DC
piping under that. I've seen that on a couple of websites and it looks like
a very cool idea. What you lose by having a higher floor, you'd gain back by
more clearance above, and you can run pipes under the floor to machines in
the middle of the room without them being in the way as they would if
dropped from the ceiling.

DC and electrical could go under the floor. Plus, that wood floor is going
to have more give and be more comfortable over long shop sessions.

Of course, I speak from no experience with this (working in my 7' ceiling,
concrete floor basement), but if I was building a shop from scratch, I'd
probably want to work this idea in.

Good luck. And don't forget to leave bench space for cleaning skate
bearings!

mac davis writes:

Brian.. I know that you don't need help rationalizing, but use the same method
that we use to justify tools... $1,000 over the life of the shop, minus the cost
of light fixtures and stuff that you won't be breaking.. *lol*

Someone suggested doing concrete block for the first 2 feet with an 8
foot wall on top and I'm going to look into that. It may be less
expensive than extending a stick built wall to 10'.

I guess it will be better to spend $1000 now than regret it for 20 or 30
years.

Brian Elfert

Keith Carlson wrote:


DC and electrical could go under the floor. Plus, that wood floor is going
to have more give and be more comfortable over long shop sessions.

You could always simply build it over a basement, if basements work in
your locale.

The heating & cooling mechanicals, DC & pipes, compressor, wiring,
etc... would be simple to install or change. All lesser-used stuff
could easily be stored below.

B a r r y writes:

Keith Carlson wrote:


DC and electrical could go under the floor. Plus, that wood floor is going
to have more give and be more comfortable over long shop sessions.

You could always simply build it over a basement, if basements work in
your locale.

My original plan had a basement. I realized a basement would add way too
much to the cost. The basement could be up to $20k or more.

My entire budget for this project is $30 to $35k.

Brian Elfert

"Keith Carlson" writes:

piping under that. I've seen that on a couple of websites and it looks like
a very cool idea. What you lose by having a higher floor, you'd gain back by
more clearance above, and you can run pipes under the floor to machines in
the middle of the room without them being in the way as they would if
dropped from the ceiling.

My original plan actually called for a full 10" wood floor over the
concrete. I needed to reduce the cost so I dropped back to plywood over
treated 2x4 sleepers.

I doubt I would regret not having the full floor in the long run.

Brian Elfert

I have 10' ceilings in my garage.... errr, shop. I love it. I know
I'd be whacking the ceiling a ton if they were 9'. As well, if I were
building a dedicated shop I would do the framed floor as someone else
here suggested. Run all your DC and wiring below the floor. There are
so many advantages to this:

1. Unbelievably easier on your joints and back. My floor is concrete
and it's a killer. I have 25 of those 3'x3' rubber mats and my back
still gets very sore.
2. Your shop will be much cleaner looking and you won't have pipes to
bang material into. I know about this!
3. Your DC system will work much better. The piping won't have to run
from the floor to the ceiling and back down again. This is a big deal
in the DC world.

If you're set on a concrete floor with no subfloor then plumb your DC
and wiring right into the concrete. I've seen this done and it's
fantastic. You just don't get the benefit of the wood floor being
easier on your body. The only catch is you need to plan your shop and
tool placements very well. It will be a lot tougher to move your TS to
the other side of the shop afterwards.

Neil

Brian Elfert wrote:
I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans called
for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of overhead
clearance.

Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

In an ideal world, the walls would be 12 to 15 feet high, but I don't have
the budget for that.

Brian Elfert

Have you consider ICF instead of stick built? I went that route, and
16' sidewalls. W/ a 16 sidewall you can put in a lofted area and add a
lot to your useable square footage.

Just a consideration. Given your suggested budget, this is a
possibility. I built mine in the neighborhood of your budget. But
this will vary based on location and other variables.

JW

jw wrote:
Brian Elfert wrote:
I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans called
for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of overhead
clearance.

Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

In an ideal world, the walls would be 12 to 15 feet high, but I don't have
the budget for that.

Brian Elfert

Have you consider ICF instead of stick built? I went that route, and
16' sidewalls. W/ a 16 sidewall you can put in a lofted area and add a
lot to your useable square footage.

Check out the new issue of Fine Homebuilding for some good information
on energy efficient stickframing.

JP
*****************
Stuck.

Brian,

I have 9 1/2 ft ceilings in basement / wood shop. This height is
plenty high enough for me. I also have radiant floor heat which is
absolutely wonderful! The only thing I would have done different if I
could do it over again would be to my a floor plan for my shop and put
the dust collection pipes in the floor.

Bryan


Brian Elfert wrote:
I'm in the planning stages for my shop building. My initial plans called
for 9' walls with a vaulted ceiling so I would have plenty of overhead
clearance.

Are 9' walls still enough clearance if I switch to a flat ceiling? Are
10' walls really worth all the extra lumber and heating/cooling expense?

In an ideal world, the walls would be 12 to 15 feet high, but I don't have
the budget for that.

Brian Elfert

"DamnYankee" writes:

Brian,

I have 9 1/2 ft ceilings in basement / wood shop. This height is
plenty high enough for me. I also have radiant floor heat which is
absolutely wonderful! The only thing I would have done different if I
could do it over again would be to my a floor plan for my shop and put
the dust collection pipes in the floor.

With pipes in the floor, how do you handle things like planers that
collect from the top? Elbows?

Brian Elfert

"Jay Pique" writes:

Have you consider ICF instead of stick built? I went that route, and
16' sidewalls. W/ a 16 sidewall you can put in a lofted area and add a
lot to your useable square footage.

Check out the new issue of Fine Homebuilding for some good information
on energy efficient stickframing.

I plan to use basically everything from the Fine Homebuilding article
except the foamboard sheathimg. Plywood only costs $5 a sheet more and
eliminates the issues of shear strength and hanging siding.

Brian Elfert