I just bought both Veritas striking knife and saddle square for
marking out the dog holes on my top maple, then I remembered
the 2º/88º thing. The saddle square is "square", no 2º/88º slant
to it.

"Goofy me" for that!

I suppose I'll use the T-bevel set from a protractor.

Is there a better idea?

Or Should I get a local machinist to create the 2º/88º on the
saddle square? (naw naw naw lol)

Do dog holes *have to* be 2º/88º off?

Do they "lean" towards the end vise? (obviously yes)

If so, what about the dog holes for the front vise, is that a
compromise?

I have seen pictures of benches with two rows of holes... how
does compromise work exactly? 2º/88º in the two directions?
Impossible at my level, and I know it.

Or should there be a separate set of holes just for the front
vise? I havn't seen or heard of that before... and it would be
a "funky" and possibly untraditional answer.

TIA,

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

"AAvK" wrote in message

Is there a better idea?


http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,41637,41645

The 2 degrees is built in. Get a Wonder Pup too.

"AAvK" wrote in message
news:jSsYe.24456$sx2.10897@fed1read02...

I just bought both Veritas striking knife and saddle square for
marking out the dog holes on my top maple, then I remembered
the 2º/88º thing. The saddle square is "square", no 2º/88º slant
to it.

I have their marking knife. I like it. I to have the dove tail saddle
squares...I find them nearly useless; when used with a knife the knife will
bite into the relatively soft aluminum. They work fine with a pencil, but
the suck if you use a knife.


"Goofy me" for that!

I suppose I'll use the T-bevel set from a protractor.

LV sliding bevel gauges are truely a better mousetrap. Highly recommended.


Is there a better idea?

Or Should I get a local machinist to create the 2º/88º on the
saddle square? (naw naw naw lol)

That might be hand if you were in the bench-building business. Otherwise,
that's a bit silly.

Do dog holes *have to* be 2º/88º off?

Probably not, but I figure that what works well for a traditional bench has
been field-tested by craftsmen who did this stuff ..... well much more than
I ever will, is the best place to start.

Do they "lean" towards the end vise? (obviously yes)

If so, what about the dog holes for the front vise, is that a
compromise?

Mine both lean towards one another, to draw the workpiece down onto the
bench.

I have seen pictures of benches with two rows of holes... how
does compromise work exactly? 2º/88º in the two directions?
Impossible at my level, and I know it.

Maybe take the wonderpup approach and bevel the (side) face of the dog
rather than orient the entire dog.

Or should there be a separate set of holes just for the front
vise? I havn't seen or heard of that before... and it would be
a "funky" and possibly untraditional answer.

That's certainly not unprecidented for round-hole benches. That said, I do
not have dog holes in my front vise and I don't miss them. If I want to hold
something flat on the top of the bench, I will just go to the end vise, or
use a holdfast.

-Steve

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,41637,41645

The 2 degrees is built in. Get a Wonder Pup too.

Thanks Eddy, but I bought lignum vitae pen blanks dude, and plan to do 3/4" square holes.
Those look really good though, I must admit, and it would be easier.

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

I have their marking knife. I like it.

Yeah, the A2 steel blade that is nicely finished, and a real rosewood handle
for that cost, decent!

I to have the dove tail saddle
squares...I find them nearly useless; when used with a knife the knife will
bite into the relatively soft aluminum. They work fine with a pencil, but
the suck if you use a knife.

That I never thought of, thanks now I won't ruin mine, I'll just use a pencil
with it. Veritas needs to make steel ones.

LV sliding bevel gauges are truely a better mousetrap. Highly recommended.

I have a Stanley 6" #18 of old... I tried using a small steel protractor to set it,
seemed a little futile but I can get it there. I'll have to remove the blade and
re-insert as flipped so the wider side of the body rests on the wood when cutting.

That might be hand if you were in the bench-building business. Otherwise,
that's a bit silly.

Probably not, but I figure that what works well for a traditional bench has
been field-tested by craftsmen who did this stuff ..... well much more than
I ever will, is the best place to start.


Mine both lean towards one another, to draw the workpiece down onto the
bench.

The leans are opposing?

Maybe take the wonderpup approach and bevel the (side) face of the dog
rather than orient the entire dog.

Now that sounds a shot viable. LV pen blanks are always on eBay cheap enough.
But it is a compromise on an entire design using straight dog holes, and possibly
weakening the dog itself.

That's certainly not unprecidented for round-hole benches. That said, I do
not have dog holes in my front vise and I don't miss them. If I want to hold
something flat on the top of the bench, I will just go to the end vise, or
use a holdfast.

So a separate set of round holes maybe, the dogs turn in either direction. My front
vise has a sliding dog, so will the end vise cheeks, as holes for dogs or round pups.

Thanks for the help!

-Steve


--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

Mine are strait and I wouldn't have it any other way. If you tilt them, at
some point the will be in the wrong direction. If you simply must have an
angle, angle the dogs, not the holes.

"AAvK" wrote in message
news:jSsYe.24456$sx2.10897@fed1read02...

I just bought both Veritas striking knife and saddle square for
marking out the dog holes on my top maple, then I remembered
the 2º/88º thing. The saddle square is "square", no 2º/88º slant
to it.

"Goofy me" for that!

I suppose I'll use the T-bevel set from a protractor.

Is there a better idea?

Or Should I get a local machinist to create the 2º/88º on the
saddle square? (naw naw naw lol)

Do dog holes *have to* be 2º/88º off?

Do they "lean" towards the end vise? (obviously yes)

If so, what about the dog holes for the front vise, is that a
compromise?

I have seen pictures of benches with two rows of holes... how
does compromise work exactly? 2º/88º in the two directions?
Impossible at my level, and I know it.

Or should there be a separate set of holes just for the front
vise? I havn't seen or heard of that before... and it would be
a "funky" and possibly untraditional answer.

TIA,

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

Many more clamping alternatives with round holes. As with the angles, if you
simple have to have square, make the top of the dog square, not the hole.
"AAvK" wrote in message
news:lpIYe.24512$sx2.520@fed1read02...

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,41637,41645

The 2 degrees is built in. Get a Wonder Pup too.

Thanks Eddy, but I bought lignum vitae pen blanks dude, and plan to do
3/4" square holes.
Those look really good though, I must admit, and it would be easier.

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

"CW" wrote in message
nk.net...
Many more clamping alternatives with round holes. As with the angles, if
you
simple have to have square, make the top of the dog square, not the hole.


Yes and no. What you say makes alot of sense *if* you have dogs side by side
on your vise *and* you clamp non-square stuff.

If you use a sing dog in an end-vise and a single dog in the main table (the
most common arangement) it only makes sence to have the contact faces of the
dogs parallel. I recently had to hold down an s-curve table leg between
dogs. Both ends of the leg were "pointy" with respect to the main axis of
the leg. I cut a couple of small blocks with a notch to fit between the dog
and the leg at each end. This worked like a charm. 2 dogs, weird angles, a
pivoting dog would not have helped. I can post a pic if necessary.

When I built my bench 3 years ago I thought that I would end up making a few
one-off dogs for the odd clamping angle. I have yet to do so. That said, I
do litttle non-square work. YMMV.

If you have a veritas twin-screw vise, I could envision alot more scenarios
for pivoting dogs. Even then, I might be tempted to use oversize wood dogs,
and have a 1/2" hole drilled in the top to accept a pivoting "puppy".

-Steve

I find them nearly useless; when used with a knife the knife will
bite into the relatively soft aluminum. They work fine with a pencil,
but
the suck if you use a knife.

That I never thought of, thanks now I won't ruin mine, I'll just use a
pencil
with it. Veritas needs to make steel ones.

Yup.


LV sliding bevel gauges are truely a better mousetrap. Highly
recommended.

I have a Stanley 6" #18 of old... I tried using a small steel protractor
to set it,
seemed a little futile but I can get it there. I'll have to remove the
blade and
re-insert as flipped so the wider side of the body rests on the wood when
cutting.

The choice of angle is not crtical, it jut needs to be consistant. To set
the angle you an just do a little trig to calculate the difference from
square Tan (2) = Differnce/6" (tangent = opposite/adjacent)

If you have to disassemble to flip you bevel gauge reconsider that LV
upgrade.

That might be hand if you were in the bench-building business.
Otherwise,
that's a bit silly.

Probably not, but I figure that what works well for a traditional bench
has
been field-tested by craftsmen who did this stuff ..... well much more
than
I ever will, is the best place to start.


Mine both lean towards one another, to draw the workpiece down onto the
bench.

The leans are opposing?

Yes. I'm pretty sure that this stuff is pretty well covered in Landis' "the
workbench book" If you don't have it run, don't walk to get it.

Maybe take the wonderpup approach and bevel the (side) face of the dog
rather than orient the entire dog.

Now that sounds a shot viable. LV pen blanks are always on eBay cheap
enough.
But it is a compromise on an entire design using straight dog holes, and
possibly
weakening the dog itself.

Would you consider dumping the LV idea and going with larger dog? My dog
holes are 1" x 1.25". This offers a little more bearing surface to both the
Dog/workpiece and dog/bench. this would reduce the possibility of the bench,
dog or workpiece being compressed (dented) when too much pressure is applied
by the vise. If your workpiece is pine, that's not a whole lot.

This rules out the use of commercial brass dogs. I like my wood dogs just
fine.


So a separate set of round holes maybe, the dogs turn in either direction.
My front
vise has a sliding dog, so will the end vise cheeks, as holes for dogs or
round pups.

I lost you there. What do you mean by a sliding dog?

Mine are strait and I wouldn't have it any other way. If you tilt them, at
some point the will be in the wrong direction. If you simply must have an
angle, angle the dogs, not the holes.


That is clear, let's assume the purpose of the tilted hole is about making the
top of any dog up and over the top of any work piece, when many tops of dogs
will be placed below work pieces, ay? So it would be worthwhile if the dog
were 1" square rather than 3/4" square to maintain it's strength with a 2º cut-
away slanted into the top of it's body... but then the hole is then too big for the
bench top, I should think... that's kind of big. What do you think, and how well
do yours work out? What size square are they?

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

Yes. I'm pretty sure that this stuff is pretty well covered in Landis' "the
workbench book" If you don't have it run, don't walk to get it.

I have both books actually. Landis' book is something of a museum.

... weakening the dog itself.

Would you consider dumping the LV idea and going with larger dog? My dog
holes are 1" x 1.25". This offers a little more bearing surface to both the
Dog/workpiece and dog/bench. this would reduce the possibility of the bench,
dog or workpiece being compressed (dented) when too much pressure is applied
by the vise. If your workpiece is pine, that's not a whole lot.

Can use a wide shim too...already bought the pen blanks.

vise has a sliding dog, so will the end vise cheeks, as holes for dogs or round pups.

I lost you there. What do you mean by a sliding dog?

You know, like a record vise, the outer jaw has a steel dog that slides up and down.
It was made by "American Scale Co. KC MS No. 204" 7x4 jaws and quick action.
28 pounds of iron.

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/