Okay...I give...when WILL my pine table top quit moving??
 

New to building furniture (not new to finishing work), and my first
project is a utility table for the woodshop. I'm overbuilding the hell
out of this thing because I want a "practice" project that I can
actually use.

Rather than use plywood for the tabletop, I glued-up some 4/4 pine so I
could practice glue-ups.

Now, mind you, this is a *first* project, so I used the cheapest wood I
could get...construction pine. Knotty as hell to be sure. But I have
a planer and jointer, so I dressed and four-squared the lumber quite
well. Or so I tought.

I had the lumber acclimatizing in my shop for about three weeks. I
first rough-dimensioned it, then let that sit for another 3 - 4 days in
case it moved again. Finally, I four-squared it to its final
dimensions and glued it up.

Only to find that, after gluing-it up to near perfection (straight,
flat, I was damn proud!), ONE of the four boards has cupped AGAIN and
warped the tabletop.

Granted, I'm using crappy plainsawn knotty pine, but is that my only
mistake here?

Thanks for any help!

construction pine is not even close to being dry - as in 7-8% moisture
content. Depending on the temp/humidity in your shop, it could take weeks
to dry out enough to be called "stable".


wrote in message
ups.com...
New to building furniture (not new to finishing work), and my first
project is a utility table for the woodshop. I'm overbuilding the hell
out of this thing because I want a "practice" project that I can
actually use.

Rather than use plywood for the tabletop, I glued-up some 4/4 pine so I
could practice glue-ups.

Now, mind you, this is a *first* project, so I used the cheapest wood I
could get...construction pine. Knotty as hell to be sure. But I have
a planer and jointer, so I dressed and four-squared the lumber quite
well. Or so I tought.

I had the lumber acclimatizing in my shop for about three weeks. I
first rough-dimensioned it, then let that sit for another 3 - 4 days in
case it moved again. Finally, I four-squared it to its final
dimensions and glued it up.

Only to find that, after gluing-it up to near perfection (straight,
flat, I was damn proud!), ONE of the four boards has cupped AGAIN and
warped the tabletop.

Granted, I'm using crappy plainsawn knotty pine, but is that my only
mistake here?

Thanks for any help!

Good. You learned something: If you are going to put hours into a project,
materials cost can start to look small.

Find a hardwoods supplier in your area and find out what is available
afordably in your area. It's a regional thing. In my neck of the woods, I
can get "brown maple" which is just maple with some dark heartwood streaks,
for 1.90/bf.

It's still probabably twice the price of 2-by's, but I think it's a good
value as a utility wood.

I'm sure that everybody would like to chime in and tell us how the get
fill-in-the-blank species for less, but everybody's market is a little
different. The point is that are other ways besides knotty pine to do
woodworking on a budget.

-Steve





wrote in message
ups.com...
New to building furniture (not new to finishing work), and my first
project is a utility table for the woodshop. I'm overbuilding the hell
out of this thing because I want a "practice" project that I can
actually use.

Rather than use plywood for the tabletop, I glued-up some 4/4 pine so I
could practice glue-ups.

Now, mind you, this is a *first* project, so I used the cheapest wood I
could get...construction pine. Knotty as hell to be sure. But I have
a planer and jointer, so I dressed and four-squared the lumber quite
well. Or so I tought.

I had the lumber acclimatizing in my shop for about three weeks. I
first rough-dimensioned it, then let that sit for another 3 - 4 days in
case it moved again. Finally, I four-squared it to its final
dimensions and glued it up.

Only to find that, after gluing-it up to near perfection (straight,
flat, I was damn proud!), ONE of the four boards has cupped AGAIN and
warped the tabletop.

Granted, I'm using crappy plainsawn knotty pine, but is that my only
mistake here?

Thanks for any help!

I work a lot with Pine and it can be a real roller coaster. I think
even the moisture that the glue introduces can add to some movement. If
you are talking about a 4/4 thick top, that sucker will move for ever.
It's just the way it is with pine. I often just pull the sucker flat
with a few extra attachments to the apron and add a shim or two if
needed.

One help is to select boards that are closer to a rift or quarter sawn
cut. Look at the end of the boards and you want to see the rings
running as nearly straight across the thickness of the board as
possible. If you see the center of the log or rings that intersect the
same face twice, ie like a smile, fhugetaboutit. That sucker will curl
up like a potato chip.

You can alwas re-rip the panel and reglue it to help flatten it but
depending on the severity of the cup you might just have to rip out the
piece entirely and glue in a new one.

Finally, use quartersawn White Oak next time and you'll get a flat
panel that stays that way.

One help is to select boards that are closer to a rift or quarter sawn
cut. Look at the end of the boards and you want to see the rings
running as nearly straight across the thickness of the board as
possible.

Couldn't agree more. Also, you didn't say, but did you use some kind
of mechanical alignment device such as dowels or biscuits? I have
found these to be most valuable in pine, less valuable in harder,
denser woods.

I also cheat with pine on table tops and put a couple of slats of 1X2
on the bottom and glue and screw through the 1X2 with a screw that
stops 1/8 from coming through the top.

While I am thinking of the bottom, don't forget to seal it when you
seal your top. A wood that is movement prone like pine will move even
more dramatically if the moisture is allowed to leave on only one side.

One last thing, if the ends of the boards are moving, your only hope is
a breadboard type trim. You rarely see any type of pine furniture
(never soft pine) without an edge treatment.

I like pine, and have made some antique reproductions out of it and
they turned out quite nice. I have used it at client request for pine
cabinets, etc. It is good stuff if you like the look and you want to
(or are getting paid to) work with it.

Robert

You have to drive a vampire through its heart.

wrote:
New to building furniture (not new to finishing work), and my first
project is a utility table for the woodshop. I'm overbuilding the hell
out of this thing because I want a "practice" project that I can
actually use.

Rather than use plywood for the tabletop, I glued-up some 4/4 pine so I
could practice glue-ups.

Now, mind you, this is a *first* project, so I used the cheapest wood I
could get...construction pine. Knotty as hell to be sure. But I have
a planer and jointer, so I dressed and four-squared the lumber quite
well. Or so I tought.

I had the lumber acclimatizing in my shop for about three weeks. I
first rough-dimensioned it, then let that sit for another 3 - 4 days in
case it moved again. Finally, I four-squared it to its final
dimensions and glued it up.

Only to find that, after gluing-it up to near perfection (straight,
flat, I was damn proud!), ONE of the four boards has cupped AGAIN and
warped the tabletop.

Granted, I'm using crappy plainsawn knotty pine, but is that my only
mistake here?

Thanks for any help!

"Stephen M" wrote in
:

*snip*

I'm sure that everybody would like to chime in and tell us how the get
fill-in-the-blank species for less, but everybody's market is a little
different. The point is that are other ways besides knotty pine to do
woodworking on a budget.

-Steve


Some stores have lumber scraps that you can get. We got some nice red
oak for $0.51 a board at a Home Depot. Sometimes the 1x4x4 ft is just
what you need. :-)

Puckdropper
--
www.uncreativelabs.net

Old computers are getting to be a lost art. Here at Uncreative Labs, we
still enjoy using the old computers. Sometimes we want to see how far a
particular system can go, other times we use a stock system to remind
ourselves of what we once had.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

wrote:
...
I had the lumber acclimatizing in my shop for about three weeks. I
first rough-dimensioned it, then let that sit for another 3 - 4 days in
case it moved again. Finally, I four-squared it to its final
dimensions and glued it up.

Only to find that, after gluing-it up to near perfection (straight,
flat, I was damn proud!), ONE of the four boards has cupped AGAIN and
warped the tabletop.

Granted, I'm using crappy plainsawn knotty pine, but is that my only
mistake here?


It will stop moving about six months after you put it into an
chamber with constant temperature and humidity.

You can minimize movement by sealing it all around with shellac.

If one board is giving you a bigger problem than the others, and
it is not exposed more (or less) to the ambient atmosphere or
spilled moisture or some such than the others it is probably
what is technically referred to as a 'bad board'. Seriously
that particular board may be reaction wood cut from a leaning
trunk or maybe it has asymetrical grain or something.

If you replace that board and seal the whoel tabletop (sides top
and bottom) with shellac you may be happy with the result.

If you can find used bowling alley, a cheap solid core door,
or a small butload of used hardwood flooring you'll probably
be happier with those in the long run.

A number of people have had success with using Doug Fir for
their benchtops. The availabliity of Doug Fir dimensional
muber varies wildly. It is very rare and expensive in
Suburban Washinton DC, but 8' 2x4s in DOug fir used to
cost $3.50 each at Hechingers, when there still were
Hechingers here.

--

FF

to be not