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Old June 16th 05, 12:50 AM
Tom Watson
 
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Default RAS v. Tablesaur - Injury Statistics

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia03/os/powersaw.pdf

Although the above might lead one to hastily conclude that the table
saw is statistically more dangerous than the radial arm saw, there is
no data to show the number of tablesaws existing versus the number of
radial arm saws.

Perhaps someone has access to industry sales statistics that would let
us weigh the probabilities in a more useful fashion.



Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)

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Old June 16th 05, 01:03 AM
toller
 
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"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia03/os/powersaw.pdf

Although the above might lead one to hastily conclude that the table
saw is statistically more dangerous than the radial arm saw, there is
no data to show the number of tablesaws existing versus the number of
radial arm saws.

Perhaps someone has access to industry sales statistics that would let
us weigh the probabilities in a more useful fashion.

More important than units in the field would be how much time was spent on
the tool. I suspect that not only are there many fewer RAS than TS, but
that each TS is used more than the RAS.

Most surprising is the number of injuries on miter saws. Maybe carpenters
use them in a more dangerous manner than woodworkers, but I can't see
getting hurt on a miter saw (while I am thankful each time I use the TS that
I didn't get injured).

Well, actually the most surprising statistic is the number of injuries from
frying debris! Was the report written in Japan?


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Old June 16th 05, 01:37 AM
John
 
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Default

Tom

Yep, very easy to draw some funny stats or even very misleading stats
if all you have is the raw injury numbers and no real idea of the
number of man hours associated with the injuries OR the total number
of installed tablesaws vs RA saws

Also, the frequency of use of the various saw types would be of major
interest

From the RAW numbers, it is impossible to even guess as to what saw
type is the most dangerous without knowing the numbers related to the
incidence of use. Obviously if RA saws are used only approx 4% of the
time compared to the overall saw use numbers, then RA saws are average
in injury rate - However, if RA saws account for (as reported) approx
4% of the injuries but are used only 2%of the time, their injury rate
is 2x the average; and so on and so on

For example, I probably use my RA saw less than 10% of my total saw
use; table saw probably gets 80%of my total saw use, and about 10% for
my bandsaw - but those numbers can vary depending on the project I am
doing. If I am doing lots of half laps, then I may be using the RA
with dado blade a much larger percentage of the total useage compared
to cutting plywood panels for cabinet carcasses/etc

John






On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:50:35 -0400, Tom Watson
wrote:

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia03/os/powersaw.pdf

Although the above might lead one to hastily conclude that the table
saw is statistically more dangerous than the radial arm saw, there is
no data to show the number of tablesaws existing versus the number of
radial arm saws.

Perhaps someone has access to industry sales statistics that would let
us weigh the probabilities in a more useful fashion.



Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)


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Old June 16th 05, 03:20 AM
Adam
 
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Default

John wrote in
:

Tom

Yep, very easy to draw some funny stats or even very misleading stats
if all you have is the raw injury numbers and no real idea of the
number of man hours associated with the injuries OR the total number
of installed tablesaws vs RA saws

Also, the frequency of use of the various saw types would be of major
interest

From the RAW numbers, it is impossible to even guess as to what saw
type is the most dangerous without knowing the numbers related to the
incidence of use. Obviously if RA saws are used only approx 4% of the
time compared to the overall saw use numbers, then RA saws are average
in injury rate - However, if RA saws account for (as reported) approx
4% of the injuries but are used only 2%of the time, their injury rate
is 2x the average; and so on and so on

For example, I probably use my RA saw less than 10% of my total saw
use; table saw probably gets 80%of my total saw use, and about 10% for
my bandsaw - but those numbers can vary depending on the project I am
doing. If I am doing lots of half laps, then I may be using the RA
with dado blade a much larger percentage of the total useage compared
to cutting plywood panels for cabinet carcasses/etc

John



I wonder if they are including the cheapo benchtop saws that many
carpenters carry around in their trucks? On the jobsites I'm at I have
to close my eyes when the trim carpenters are using these things to rip
mouldings etc. as they say "an accident waiting to happen".

As to injuries with a miter saw, well it's embarrassing to admit but
when I was younger (& just a little dumber) I figured I could do a
freehand compound miter with the trusty delta 8" non compound miter saw.
Needless to say the piece of 2' long piece of 3/4" select red oak went
flying and stuck in the drywall about a foot away from a beautiful new
Pella french door that was at least fourteen feet away. After I was able
to open and close my hand I went back to make some more cuts and noticed
something funny, the steel bed of the miter saw was twisted by about a
quarter of an inch. Lesson learned in a big way & I've been alot more
respectful of power tools since then.

Just an amateurs thoughts / ramblings

Adam
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Old June 16th 05, 04:16 AM
joey
 
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Default

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia03/os/powersaw.pdf

Why do my taxes pay for this stuff. I musta missed it in the Constitution. I
recently heard of a government study about why people laugh
Joey

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...


Although the above might lead one to hastily conclude that the table
saw is statistically more dangerous than the radial arm saw, there is
no data to show the number of tablesaws existing versus the number of
radial arm saws.

Perhaps someone has access to industry sales statistics that would let
us weigh the probabilities in a more useful fashion.



Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)





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Old June 16th 05, 05:04 AM
Edwin Pawlowski
 
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Default


"toller" wrote in message

Most surprising is the number of injuries on miter saws. Maybe carpenters
use them in a more dangerous manner than woodworkers, but I can't see
getting hurt on a miter saw (while I am thankful each time I use the TS
that I didn't get injured).


I consider the miter saw to be far more dangerous for two reasons.

You hold the work in one hand and bring the blade down with the other. Hold
it in the wrong place and take out a body part.

You do repetitive cutting and move the work piece an inch or two at a time
and then cut. Oooops, I should have stopped on that last cut.

It is not the saw, but the careless use of it that causes the injury.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/


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Old June 16th 05, 05:29 AM
toller
 
Posts: n/a
Default


I consider the miter saw to be far more dangerous for two reasons.

You hold the work in one hand and bring the blade down with the other.
Hold it in the wrong place and take out a body part.

You do repetitive cutting and move the work piece an inch or two at a time
and then cut. Oooops, I should have stopped on that last cut.

It is not the saw, but the careless use of it that causes the injury.
--

Get a laser for it. Seriously, you would have to be sound asleep to bring
the saw down with a red line painting your fingers.
I just bought the wrong blade for my miter saw. It is one intended for a
slider, but I have a fixed. However, I am happy with the purchase. Unlike
my old blade, it doesn't pull on the work piece at all, so it is much easier
to hold a small piece securely. And it cuts just fine.


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Old June 16th 05, 05:49 AM
Michael White
 
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Default

If you don't pay for it, men with guns will come to your door and kill you.
--
Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer

joey ) wrote on Wednesday 15 June 2005 09:16 pm:

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia03/os/powersaw.pdf

Why do my taxes pay for this stuff. I musta missed it in the Constitution.
I recently heard of a government study about why people laugh
Joey

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...


Although the above might lead one to hastily conclude that the table
saw is statistically more dangerous than the radial arm saw, there is
no data to show the number of tablesaws existing versus the number of
radial arm saws.

Perhaps someone has access to industry sales statistics that would let
us weigh the probabilities in a more useful fashion.



Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)


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Old June 16th 05, 12:05 PM
Andy Dingley
 
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Default

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 19:16:31 -0700, "joey" wrote:

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia03/os/powersaw.pdf

Why do my taxes pay for this stuff.


What's your problem with it ? People getting injured at work is A Bad
Thing. Even the worst NeoCon think's it's a bad thing, because they're
expensive to clean off the machines and the downtime reduces shareholder
stock value.

It's a reasonable report - I read all of it with great interest. This is
_exactly_ the sort of thing that medical statisticians should be looking
at.
  #10   Report Post  
Old June 16th 05, 12:32 PM
Prometheus
 
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Default

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 19:16:31 -0700, "joey" wrote:

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia03/os/powersaw.pdf

Why do my taxes pay for this stuff. I musta missed it in the Constitution. I
recently heard of a government study about why people laugh
Joey


I'm going to blame Ralph Nader. He probably didn't have anything to
do with that particular study, but I'm sure he'd approve.





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