Since 1989 I have used nothing but PSA paper on my sanders. Prior to that I
bought and sold thousands of boxes of this product and it was the standard
in the automotive body shop industry.
Up until 3 weeks ago I have read many complaints of PSA paper being a PIA
to use. The main complaints were that it was too difficult to remove and
that it left a sticky residue on the sander pad. For years I could only
scratch my head and wonder WTF are these people complaining about as I have
had no problems with this type paper at all and had never witnessed auto
body man having a problem with it at all.

Well now I may see the light. My PSA sanders are Porter Cables. I have
always used Porter Cable or 3M paper on these sanders and again must say
that I have never had a problem with removing and replacing paper on these
sanders.
Enter into the equation, Porter Cable being bought by B&D. My local
supplier had stopped reordering inventory from Porter Cable until the
details were all worked out over the acquisition. Naturally the first
things to run out was his Porter Cable sand papers. This left me with the
choice to order paper and for the sake of giving another brand a try I chose
Kingspor sand paper. I bought a box of 5" round PSA for my ROS and a roll
of PSA paper for my SpeedBloc sander. WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT. I now see why
there are some people that complain about PSA paper being a PIA to use.
I'll go back to PC paper. Apparently Kingspor feels that PSA paper should
be semi permanent and should leave 1/3 of the adhesive stuck to the sander
pad. Every time that I remove the paper I have to clean the sander pad with
acetone to remove the adhesive. Doing this 10 to 12 times a day gets old
quick. I'm going back to PC brand and suggest that if you have had problems
with PSA paper to try the Porter Cable brand. You should be pleasantly
surprised.

In article ,
"Leon" wrote:

[snippage]

there are some people that complain about PSA paper being a PIA to use.

I am one of those complainers. My problem was that I would use one grit
for a while, take it off, go up a grit, take it off etc. Then I'd re-use
the same 3 or 4 disks on another job, because they weren't worn enough
to discard.
Hook & Loop was a solution for me and I never looked back. PSA just
doesn't compare.

Then came along Mirka Abranet. It's a screen and must be Hook 'n Loop.
No lining up holes either. Sanding large flat surfaces just doesn't get
any better than this.

One beef: I wish that Lee Valley's conversion pads from PSA to H'nL
would have a thicker pile of hook on them. The ones currently sold are
not very 'grabby'.

Leon wrote:

...snip long saga complaining about Klingspor PSA paper and extolling P-C
branded paper wrt glue stick on pads...

I have no idea who makes P-C's paper and it's been so expensive to use
can't comment on it directly. Similarly for Kingspor's PS papers--while
in general Klingspor is great value, I think their PS prices are
excessive. I have used Mirka on PC sanders w/ success and no
significant glue "cling" and 3M automotive papers with similar results.

For most of my sanding, I use H & L rather than PSA. The PSA would
loose the stick after removing it once, and I use the heavier aluminum
oxide discs (bowl sanding). With one of the eraser sticks, I can get a
lot more use of the H&L. I may have to try the Abranet though.
robo hippy

"Robatoy" wrote in message news:design-

I am one of those complainers. My problem was that I would use one grit
for a while, take it off, go up a grit, take it off etc. Then I'd re-use
the same 3 or 4 disks on another job, because they weren't worn enough
to discard.

You are an excelent candidate for hook and loop. You do not wear sand paper
out before removing it. I probably go through 6 or 7 pieces with out
changing grits. In my case hook and loop is not economiucal for me.

"robo hippy" wrote in message
oups.com...
For most of my sanding, I use H & L rather than PSA. The PSA would
loose the stick after removing it once, and I use the heavier aluminum
oxide discs (bowl sanding). With one of the eraser sticks, I can get a
lot more use of the H&L. I may have to try the Abranet though.
robo hippy


H& L is a good choice for you as you remove the paper before wearing it out.
PSA is hard to beat if you are doing production sanding and wearing out the
paper before changing grits.

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

..snip long saga complaining about Klingspor PSA paper and extolling P-C
branded paper wrt glue stick on pads...

I have no idea who makes P-C's paper and it's been so expensive to use
can't comment on it directly. Similarly for Kingspor's PS papers--while
in general Klingspor is great value, I think their PS prices are
excessive. I have used Mirka on PC sanders w/ success and no
significant glue "cling" and 3M automotive papers with similar results.

Not counting shipping, Kingspor paper is more expensive for me compared to
my supplier of Porter Cable paper. Try to find a trades supplier and you
will probably find the paper cheaper. I paid about 10% less for the 5"
round PSA from Kingspor but paid about 33% more for Kingspor for the roll
for the SpeedBloc.
I have noticed Crystal Bay and 3M printed on the backs of the PC paper over
the last 16 years.
I'll check into Mirka. Thanks.

In article ,
"Leon" wrote:

"Robatoy" wrote in message news:design-

I am one of those complainers. My problem was that I would use one grit
for a while, take it off, go up a grit, take it off etc. Then I'd re-use
the same 3 or 4 disks on another job, because they weren't worn enough
to discard.

You are an excelent candidate for hook and loop. You do not wear sand paper
out before removing it. I probably go through 6 or 7 pieces with out
changing grits. In my case hook and loop is not economiucal for me.

I have a PSA pad for my PC ROS. ( I need to use a heat gun to take the
disc off.) It is made by EA and is nice and hard. I find that combo with
220 is better at 'blocking' than the softer HnL set-up. Sometimes I
have to level a seam and there is just enough 'sponge' in the HnL
interface for it to be not quite as good at 'flattening'. The dust
collection on that set-up is atrocious and the centre of the discs load
up like crazy. That is something that doesn't happen at all with Abranet
on either the Festool Rotex or the 19-hole Mirka pad on the Ridgid
(Metabo) 6" ROS.
One of the antique car restorers in this county is just gaga over the
Abralon (same company as Abranet)discs. They're foam backed and go up to
4000 grit for that "Hey! I can see myself!!"-look.

On Fri, 27 May 2005 10:18:13 -0400, Robatoy wrote:

In article ,
"Leon" wrote:

[snippage]

there are some people that complain about PSA paper being a PIA to use.

I am one of those complainers. My problem was that I would use one grit
for a while, take it off, go up a grit, take it off etc. Then I'd re-use
the same 3 or 4 disks on another job, because they weren't worn enough
to discard.
Hook & Loop was a solution for me and I never looked back. PSA just
doesn't compare.

Then came along Mirka Abranet. It's a screen and must be Hook 'n Loop.
No lining up holes either. Sanding large flat surfaces just doesn't get
any better than this.

One beef: I wish that Lee Valley's conversion pads from PSA to H'nL
would have a thicker pile of hook on them. The ones currently sold are
not very 'grabby'.

As a new convert to H&L, I've gotta testify.. *g*

I've used PSA when I'm doing a lot of sanding, but find that tearing my own
sheets (on 1/4 & 1/3 sheet sanders) is cheaper, easier and less hassle..

Then, on the urging of the wood turning group, I bought a set of disc pads for
bowl sanding, and they are H&L... it's wonderful!
No sticky stuff, change grits back 7 forth until the paper is ready to toss and
no worries about being a little off when you put it on.. just pull it back off
and try again.. hard to do with PSA..
I'm in the process of converting my most used sanders to H&L now and will not
buy a new one that isn't set up for it..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Leon wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

..snip long saga complaining about Klingspor PSA paper and extolling P-C
branded paper wrt glue stick on pads...

I have no idea who makes P-C's paper and it's been so expensive to use
can't comment on it directly. Similarly for Kingspor's PS papers--while
in general Klingspor is great value, I think their PS prices are
excessive. I have used Mirka on PC sanders w/ success and no
significant glue "cling" and 3M automotive papers with similar results.

Not counting shipping, Kingspor paper is more expensive for me compared to
my supplier of Porter Cable paper. Try to find a trades supplier and you
will probably find the paper cheaper. I paid about 10% less for the 5"
round PSA from Kingspor but paid about 33% more for Kingspor for the roll
for the SpeedBloc.
I have noticed Crystal Bay and 3M printed on the backs of the PC paper over
the last 16 years.
I'll check into Mirka. Thanks.

When I can go to the local NAPA and get bulk any type I want for less
than mail order, I see no reason to do otherwise.

Actually, after posting I thought I would refresh my data so I looked in
the last Kingspor catalogue--now I recall the primary issue there--they
at least don't list the "holey" PSA round type. That, as I say, I can
get at NAPA for less than theirs.

The only P-C branded I've ever seen is in very small packaging units.
Since, if I'm going to order mail order I can get Mirka or other in
large quantity much more cheaply, never been any incentive to look
further...

BTW, Mirka is the Amazon "house" brand although it can be had other
places as well...

"robo hippy" wrote in news:1117207465.028969.192520
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

For most of my sanding, I use H & L rather than PSA. The PSA would
loose the stick after removing it once, and I use the heavier aluminum
oxide discs (bowl sanding). With one of the eraser sticks, I can get a
lot more use of the H&L. I may have to try the Abranet though.
robo hippy


Enlightenment, please.

What sort of sander are you using for your bowl sanding? I ask, because
I'm new to this bowl turning specialty, and, as sharp as I can get my
tools, I still need to sand some. Power sanding seems to be the ticket.

Patriarch

Hi Leon,
My last roll of paper for my Speedbloc was nameless other than to say "made in
Finland". Seemed to ware out a bit fast than the 3M product. . JG

Leon wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

..snip long saga complaining about Klingspor PSA paper and extolling P-C
branded paper wrt glue stick on pads...

I have no idea who makes P-C's paper and it's been so expensive to use
can't comment on it directly. Similarly for Kingspor's PS papers--while
in general Klingspor is great value, I think their PS prices are
excessive. I have used Mirka on PC sanders w/ success and no
significant glue "cling" and 3M automotive papers with similar results.

Not counting shipping, Kingspor paper is more expensive for me compared to
my supplier of Porter Cable paper. Try to find a trades supplier and you
will probably find the paper cheaper. I paid about 10% less for the 5"
round PSA from Kingspor but paid about 33% more for Kingspor for the roll
for the SpeedBloc.
I have noticed Crystal Bay and 3M printed on the backs of the PC paper over
the last 16 years.
I'll check into Mirka. Thanks.

I don't know any other sand paper manufacturer in finland besídes of
mirka. I like mirka sandpapers a lot but it seems that I have to clean
them (I use a stiff brush) quite often.

seismo malm (from finland)

In article , JGS wrote:
Hi Leon,
My last roll of paper for my Speedbloc was nameless other than to say "made in
Finland". Seemed to ware out a bit fast than the 3M product. . JG

Leon wrote:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

..snip long saga complaining about Klingspor PSA paper and extolling P-C
branded paper wrt glue stick on pads...

I have no idea who makes P-C's paper and it's been so expensive to use
can't comment on it directly. Similarly for Kingspor's PS papers--while
in general Klingspor is great value, I think their PS prices are
excessive. I have used Mirka on PC sanders w/ success and no
significant glue "cling" and 3M automotive papers with similar results.

Not counting shipping, Kingspor paper is more expensive for me compared to
my supplier of Porter Cable paper. Try to find a trades supplier and you
will probably find the paper cheaper. I paid about 10% less for the 5"
round PSA from Kingspor but paid about 33% more for Kingspor for the roll
for the SpeedBloc.
I have noticed Crystal Bay and 3M printed on the backs of the PC paper over
the last 16 years.
I'll check into Mirka. Thanks.

"Seismo Malm" wrote in message
.jyu.fi...
I don't know any other sand paper manufacturer in finland besídes of
mirka. I like mirka sandpapers a lot but it seems that I have to clean
them (I use a stiff brush) quite often.

seismo malm (from finland)


Clean what, the electric sander pad or the sand paper? If you have to clean
the sand paper often you should switch to an "Open Coat" type sand paper.
If you have to clean the electric sander pad often, thanks for the warning.

I use the Sioux Angle Drill. They also make one for Milwaukee that is
identical. I just saw in my new catalogue from Craft Supplies that they
have a new model with a stronger motor. I have three electric, and one
pneumatic.
I prefer the high speed model. All of my sanding is done with one of
the thick soft pads, which conform nicely to the inside and outside of
the bowl. I do wear out the bearings on at least 1 drill per year. The
tool is a drill, and not a grinder. A 3 inch pad with medium pressure
is hard on the tool, and I do a lot of bowls. I will consider myself a
master when I can turn a bowl by eye (no calipers) and my cuts are fine
enough that I don't have to sand.
robo hippy
















Patriarch wrote:
"robo hippy" wrote in news:1117207465.028969.192520
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

For most of my sanding, I use H & L rather than PSA. The PSA would
loose the stick after removing it once, and I use the heavier aluminum
oxide discs (bowl sanding). With one of the eraser sticks, I can get a
lot more use of the H&L. I may have to try the Abranet though.
robo hippy


Enlightenment, please.

What sort of sander are you using for your bowl sanding? I ask, because
I'm new to this bowl turning specialty, and, as sharp as I can get my
tools, I still need to sand some. Power sanding seems to be the ticket.

Patriarch

Leon wrote:

"Seismo Malm" wrote in message
.jyu.fi...
I don't know any other sand paper manufacturer in finland besídes of
mirka. I like mirka sandpapers a lot but it seems that I have to clean
them (I use a stiff brush) quite often.

seismo malm (from finland)

Clean what, the electric sander pad or the sand paper? If you have to clean
the sand paper often you should switch to an "Open Coat" type sand paper.
If you have to clean the electric sander pad often, thanks for the warning.

Not from Mirka adhesives ime, if that's what you mean. Sounds like he's
got a problem w/ varnish or sap or other similar problem. As you say,
open coat will help. I've not seen any particular tendency to clog
excessively w/ Mirka papers, and we've been through a tremendous amount
over the last 18 months or so.

It's unfortunate that you have to find out the hard way but it had to
happen. I have used much PSA paper in industrial applications and have found
a few to avoid simply because of the problems you encountered. The good
stuff sticks great and peels of with no problems, the bad stuff isn't worth
using.
"Leon" wrote in message
news
Since 1989 I have used nothing but PSA paper on my sanders. Prior to that
I
bought and sold thousands of boxes of this product and it was the standard
in the automotive body shop industry.
Up until 3 weeks ago I have read many complaints of PSA paper being a PIA
to use. The main complaints were that it was too difficult to remove and
that it left a sticky residue on the sander pad. For years I could only
scratch my head and wonder WTF are these people complaining about as I
have
had no problems with this type paper at all and had never witnessed auto
body man having a problem with it at all.

Well now I may see the light. My PSA sanders are Porter Cables. I have
always used Porter Cable or 3M paper on these sanders and again must say
that I have never had a problem with removing and replacing paper on these
sanders.
Enter into the equation, Porter Cable being bought by B&D. My local
supplier had stopped reordering inventory from Porter Cable until the
details were all worked out over the acquisition. Naturally the first
things to run out was his Porter Cable sand papers. This left me with the
choice to order paper and for the sake of giving another brand a try I
chose
Kingspor sand paper. I bought a box of 5" round PSA for my ROS and a roll
of PSA paper for my SpeedBloc sander. WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT. I now see
why
there are some people that complain about PSA paper being a PIA to use.
I'll go back to PC paper. Apparently Kingspor feels that PSA paper
should
be semi permanent and should leave 1/3 of the adhesive stuck to the sander
pad. Every time that I remove the paper I have to clean the sander pad
with
acetone to remove the adhesive. Doing this 10 to 12 times a day gets old
quick. I'm going back to PC brand and suggest that if you have had
problems
with PSA paper to try the Porter Cable brand. You should be pleasantly
surprised.

"CW" wrote in message
ink.net...
It's unfortunate that you have to find out the hard way but it had to
happen. I have used much PSA paper in industrial applications and have
found
a few to avoid simply because of the problems you encountered. The good
stuff sticks great and peels of with no problems, the bad stuff isn't
worth
using.


LOL, and silly me figured that Kingspor would have made a good PSA paper.

I'd have thought so too considering the promos they get here. I live in an
industrial area (Seattle) so I can get whatever I need local.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"CW" wrote in message
ink.net...
It's unfortunate that you have to find out the hard way but it had to
happen. I have used much PSA paper in industrial applications and have
found
a few to avoid simply because of the problems you encountered. The good
stuff sticks great and peels of with no problems, the bad stuff isn't
worth
using.


LOL, and silly me figured that Kingspor would have made a good PSA paper.