I am making the top for a TV cabinet (Mission Style) and it will be
25"x42"x1" - I have a good supply of 5/4 red oak and am wondering if it
would be wise to glue up 4" strips to make the top or just go with 3 - 8"
pieces? The wood is flatsawn and not quartersawn.

Any advise or comments appreciated. . .

BillyB

BillyBob wrote:
I am making the top for a TV cabinet (Mission Style) and it will be
25"x42"x1" - I have a good supply of 5/4 red oak and am wondering if it
would be wise to glue up 4" strips to make the top or just go with 3 - 8"
pieces? The wood is flatsawn and not quartersawn.

Any advise or comments appreciated. . .


I don't want to be a smart ass but last time I checked, 3*8 doesn't
quite get you to 25.

No matter how you approach it, 4 boards are req'd to make a 25 wide top.

How you cut them to get there depends on the wood at hand. You have to
make that call.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
ink.net...
BillyBob wrote:
I am making the top for a TV cabinet (Mission Style) and it will be
25"x42"x1" - I have a good supply of 5/4 red oak and am wondering if it
would be wise to glue up 4" strips to make the top or just go with 3 -
8"
pieces? The wood is flatsawn and not quartersawn.

Any advise or comments appreciated. . .


I don't want to be a smart ass but last time I checked, 3*8 doesn't
quite get you to 25.

No matter how you approach it, 4 boards are req'd to make a 25 wide top.

How you cut them to get there depends on the wood at hand. You have to
make that call.

It's not absolute dimension or ring orientation that counts, so make it look
good. If that involves a four inch between two eights for a nice grain
pattern, have at it. I think a lot of folks neglect the mock up and mineral
spirit stage and end up with some ugly, but reversed ring glueups.

In article tciee.2471$Vu.1892@trnddc07, "BillyBob" wrote:
I am making the top for a TV cabinet (Mission Style) and it will be
25"x42"x1" - I have a good supply of 5/4 red oak and am wondering if it
would be wise to glue up 4" strips to make the top or just go with 3 - 8"
pieces? The wood is flatsawn and not quartersawn.

The limiting factor on the width of the boards making up your panel should be
the width of your jointer. If you have an 8" jointer, by all means use 8"
boards -- but you won't get a 25" wide panel out of *three* eight-inch boards.




--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Within reason the grain pattern that "I like" determines the
width of each board...

BUT to be honest I "cheat" a little (alot) to get the look I want...
a 25 x 42 top may end up a little larger or smaller...

In General I find myself using boards between 4 and 5 inches
in width...( Joiner is only a 6 in one anyway... )

Bob Griffiths

Somewhere I read 3 inches as best (where? I don't remember) and that if your
ripping them and cutting you turn over every other piece then glue 'em up!
top-bottom-top-bottom....

joe



"BillyBob" wrote in message
news:tciee.2471$Vu.1892@trnddc07...
I am making the top for a TV cabinet (Mission Style) and it will be
25"x42"x1" - I have a good supply of 5/4 red oak and am wondering if it
would be wise to glue up 4" strips to make the top or just go with 3 - 8"
pieces? The wood is flatsawn and not quartersawn.

Any advise or comments appreciated. . .

BillyB

Thanks all for the ideas - I do realize that 8X3 = 24 and not 25 but the
boards are about 8.5" each.

My main concern is the stability of the top to keep it from warping or
cupping. I will alternate the board grain directions for sure.

Has anyone actually used 8"+ boards for such a glue-up and how did it work?

Thanks
BillyB



".HMFIC@1369" My wrote in message
news:jNpee.16220$yd1.9126@trndny01...
Somewhere I read 3 inches as best (where? I don't remember) and that if
your
ripping them and cutting you turn over every other piece then glue 'em up!
top-bottom-top-bottom....

joe



"BillyBob" wrote in message
news:tciee.2471$Vu.1892@trnddc07...
I am making the top for a TV cabinet (Mission Style) and it will be
25"x42"x1" - I have a good supply of 5/4 red oak and am wondering if it
would be wise to glue up 4" strips to make the top or just go with 3 -
8"
pieces? The wood is flatsawn and not quartersawn.

Any advise or comments appreciated. . .

BillyB

In article gduee.11394$Ri.1496@trnddc08, "BillyBob"
wrote:

Thanks all for the ideas - I do realize that 8X3 = 24 and not 25 but the
boards are about 8.5" each.

My main concern is the stability of the top to keep it from warping or
cupping. I will alternate the board grain directions for sure.

Has anyone actually used 8"+ boards for such a glue-up and how did it work?

Thanks
BillyB



My largest glue-up has been approximately 76" x 40". I've used boards up
to approximately 10" wide in glue-ups with no problems. I, like others
have mentioned, do glue-ups that give me the grain pattern I like,
regardless of which face ends up on top.

Remember, start with wood that is acclimated to your shop. I like to mill
my wood to slightly thicker (1/8" or so) than finished size. I then
sticker and let sit a day or two. That will typically give any problem
boards time to move; these I re-joint. I then plane all to a hair thicker
than final size and then glue them up. The glue up is kept stickered after
it is removed from clamps until it is in the final piece.


david

ps. Since your design is for a tv cabinet, I take it the top will be
attached to the rest of the cabinet. This will help keep it flat.

"BillyBob" wrote in
news:gduee.11394$Ri.1496@trnddc08:

Thanks all for the ideas - I do realize that 8X3 = 24 and not 25 but
the boards are about 8.5" each.

My main concern is the stability of the top to keep it from warping or
cupping. I will alternate the board grain directions for sure.

Has anyone actually used 8"+ boards for such a glue-up and how did it
work?

I take a different approach.

My thickness planer is 13" wide. So I set up for a nice grain pattern,
with as much rift sawn grain as feasible (visual preference of mine for red
oak), and glue up to about 12" wide, twice, and then thickness the stock
sorta close to final thickness. Then glue the two pieces together, using
clamping cauls, and level the resulting glueup with scrapers and/or power
sander.

2* (8.5") doesn't go through my machinery, so I change my methods.

Attaching a solid top so it won't warp, but still moves as it must, is a
topic for another thread.

Patriarch

The conventional wisdom that 4" will prevent cupping is most likely
based on 4/4 thickness.

This would scale as 2" for 2/4, 5" for 5/4 etc.

8" for 4/4 is pretty risky; especially if there's a temperature
difference expected through the thickness as in the case of a TV
cabinet.

Dave

wrote in message
oups.com...
The conventional wisdom that 4" will prevent cupping is most likely
based on 4/4 thickness.

This would scale as 2" for 2/4, 5" for 5/4 etc.

8" for 4/4 is pretty risky; especially if there's a temperature
difference expected through the thickness as in the case of a TV
cabinet.


I think you need to read some wood technology.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp.../fplgtr113.htm is a good
place to start.

On Thu, 05 May 2005 19:11:08 GMT, the inscrutable "BillyBob"
spake:

Thanks all for the ideas - I do realize that 8X3 = 24 and not 25 but the
boards are about 8.5" each.

My main concern is the stability of the top to keep it from warping or
cupping. I will alternate the board grain directions for sure.

My favorite quote from Frank Klausz is "Yes, alternate growth
patterns. That gives you a nice ripple effect when it warps."


Has anyone actually used 8"+ boards for such a glue-up and how did it work?

He likes wide boards and puts the growth all the same direction but
with the best face up/out. No matter what width you use, make sure to
use the same amount of finish on both sides of the board to equalize
the moisture changes.


--
"Excess regulation and government spending destroy jobs and increase
unemployment. Every regulator we fire results in the creation of over
150 new jobs, enough to hire the ex-regulator, the unemployed, and
the able-bodied poor." -Michael Badnarik

VOTE LIBERTARIAN OR YOU WON'T CHANGE ANYTHING.

In article , wrote:

No matter what width you use, make sure to
use the same amount of finish on both sides of the board to equalize
the moisture changes.

According to a recent article in Popular Woodworking (by Flexner, I think),
this makes *no* difference at all to whether the tabletop will eventually
warp or not.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

BillyBob wrote:
Thanks all for the ideas - I do realize that 8X3 = 24 and not 25 but
the boards are about 8.5" each.

My main concern is the stability of the top to keep it from warping or
cupping. I will alternate the board grain directions for sure.

Wood warps. Wood moves. How much depends on how your top is attached
to the other box members.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:

No matter what width you use, make sure to
use the same amount of finish on both sides of the board to equalize
the moisture changes.

According to a recent article in Popular Woodworking (by Flexner, I
think),
this makes *no* difference at all to whether the tabletop will eventually
warp or not.


When I was working up the courage and gathering knowledge for my first DiY
cement pour (patio - the forerunner of the modern deck), I found an amazing
consensus among contractors. They said "sometimes cement cracks, sometimes
it doesn't."

Seems there are ways to guarantee failure, but none to guarantee success.

26 years later - no cracks. Saw it three years ago when visiting.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 May 2005 19:11:08 GMT, the inscrutable "BillyBob"
spake:

Thanks all for the ideas - I do realize that 8X3 = 24 and not 25 but the
boards are about 8.5" each.

My main concern is the stability of the top to keep it from warping or
cupping. I will alternate the board grain directions for sure.

My favorite quote from Frank Klausz is "Yes, alternate growth
patterns. That gives you a nice ripple effect when it warps."

I attended a woodworking show a while back and watched a presentation by
Kelly Mehler on wood selection. When the topic of glued-up panels, such as
tabel tops, came up, his opinion is that you choose your layout based on
what looks best. He said that if you glued up a table top and then just
laid it against a wall, well you might get some warping. But things like
table tops are constrained against movement by virtue of them being attached
to a base, which keeps them from warping.

todd

George, I read the chapter on drying and dimensional change in the
reference you pointed to. I found nothing inconsistent with what I
said.

My family has been in the millwork/commercial cabinet business for 50
years; we used a 4" maximum as a rule of thumb for a glued up top with
alternating orientation to limit the total amount of washboard like
cupping.

One source of cupping is a result of imposing a differential moisture
gradient across an originally flat, uniformly dry board. This can be
caused by a temperature drop across the wood (a temperature difference
results in a relative humidity difference that in turn results in a
moisture content difference.)

Another common cause is running boards that have a moisture gradient
through the planner; they'll cup after the gradient goes away.

Anyhow, if the root cause for cupping deformation is a change in
dryness gradient thru the thickness of the board, the resultant
curvature will involve the moisture difference times the expansion
coefficient divided by the thickness of the board.

A 4" wide x 1/8" thick board moist on one side and dry on the other
cups a lot more than 4" wide x 1" thick board under the same swelling
conditions (the cup depth of the thin board will be about 8 times that
of the thicker board.)

Using the dimensional strategy I mentioned in my previous message
(glue-up board width proportional to thickness) keeps the relative
washboard effect the same after equilibriation.

Do you have evidence to the contrary? Or perhaps you thought I was
refering to thermal expansion due to my mentioning temperature
gradients?

or maybe we were wrong all along?

Dave

wrote in message
oups.com...
George, I read the chapter on drying and dimensional change in the
reference you pointed to. I found nothing inconsistent with what I
said.

Then you should look and see that each board acts independent of the others,
so it makes NO difference whether they're up/down wide or narrow, what makes
the difference is where they came from in the log.

My family built cars. How nice for yours to work with wood.

On Thu, 05 May 2005 05:31:05 GMT, "BillyBob"
wrote:

I am making the top for a TV cabinet (Mission Style) and it will be
25"x42"x1" - I have a good supply of 5/4 red oak and am wondering if it
would be wise to glue up 4" strips to make the top or just go with 3 - 8"
pieces? The wood is flatsawn and not quartersawn.

Any advise or comments appreciated. . .

BillyB


I'd keep your widest boards wide and fit the smaller ones in as they
look best on the show face of the glueup.

You will find guys that will tell you to flip the grain orientation
but I wouldn't pay them much mind.

There are co-equal evils in keeping the wood bark side up and down -
as well as flipping them in pieces that are three or four inches wide.

I'd go for the best look and depend on the joinery and bracing to take
care of the inevitable instability.



Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)