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#1
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Building kitchen cabinets - any cost savings?
We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home.
Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money (which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make (assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them. todd |
#2
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Todd Fatheree wrote:
We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home. Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money (which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make (assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them. todd When we built a couple years ago, I thought about building the kitchen cabinets. I looked at prices from mail order outfits, including those that supplied melamine or ply boxes and you add the fronts. As far a price goes, I could save a bit just based on the wood and hardware costs (the prefab boxes were probably a wash if you don't mind melamine). The major difference was time. If I build them, it's going to take a fair amount of time (I'm basically lazy). Plus I had a bunch of built ins for books and electronics and the shop cabinets that I needed. We took a vote and it was 2-zip to go with some Orange Borg cabinets. They proved to be quite satisfactory (self installed) and LOML could unpack all the cooking stuff the day we moved in. :-) my opinion only, jo4hn |
#3
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I do kitchen cabinets and my prices are quite reasonable. I typically
charge 4 to 5 times my cost in materials. I beat the pants off of similar prefab cabinet pricing and installation. If you can do it, you will come out thousands ahead. "Todd Fatheree" wrote in message ... We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home. Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money (which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make (assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them. todd |
#4
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"jo4hn" wrote in message
ink.net... Todd Fatheree wrote: We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home. Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money (which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make (assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them. todd When we built a couple years ago, I thought about building the kitchen cabinets. I looked at prices from mail order outfits, including those that supplied melamine or ply boxes and you add the fronts. As far a price goes, I could save a bit just based on the wood and hardware costs (the prefab boxes were probably a wash if you don't mind melamine). The major difference was time. If I build them, it's going to take a fair amount of time (I'm basically lazy). Plus I had a bunch of built ins for books and electronics and the shop cabinets that I needed. We took a vote and it was 2-zip to go with some Orange Borg cabinets. They proved to be quite satisfactory (self installed) and LOML could unpack all the cooking stuff the day we moved in. :-) my opinion only, jo4hn Thanks, this is the kind of feedback I'm looking for. I'll certainly have other projects that I can do, so I need to choose my projects wisely. We don't even have a rough design from the architect yet, so I don't have anything to take to the local Borg to have them whip up a design to get a ballpark on. I'll keep your thoughts in mind. todd |
#5
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Nothing like having you and jo4hn on opposite ends of the spectrum! ;-) To
be honest, I figured it would work out closer to your end, but I guess I'll have to work the numbers both ways. todd "Leon" wrote in message m... I do kitchen cabinets and my prices are quite reasonable. I typically charge 4 to 5 times my cost in materials. I beat the pants off of similar prefab cabinet pricing and installation. If you can do it, you will come out thousands ahead. "Todd Fatheree" wrote in message ... We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home. Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money (which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make (assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them. todd |
#6
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In article ,
"Leon" wrote: I do kitchen cabinets and my prices are quite reasonable. I typically charge 4 to 5 times my cost in materials. I beat the pants off of similar prefab cabinet pricing and installation. If you can do it, you will come out thousands ahead. I'm installing a solid surface countertop, Thursday, on a set of cabinets bought from HD. When I took the template last week, I got into a lenghty discussion with the home-owner about the saving etc. He popped open his laptop and showed me about a dozen spreadsheets. That couple sure did their homework. Very revealing, to say the least. Bottom line? They ended up with a new 16ga undermount stainless steel sink, 20 feet of solid surface material (mine) installed, a set of Kohler taps and all the taxes paid...basically for free. You bet your a*ss it's worth it. They learned as they went along....took their time. A jigsaw and a cordless drill. Period. He did mention he had some issues regarding the sizes of the cabinets he ordered, delaying the completion by about 3 weeks. Home Depot's fault on 2 cabinets, one fault his, and one mislabelled. |
#7
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Todd Fatheree ) wrote on Tuesday 05 April 2005 10:33 pm:
We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home. Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money (which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make (assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them. todd Todd, I just recently had to replace the kitchen cabinet underneath the sink due to water damage. At first, I looked into replacing it. I figured I'd look for the cheapest one the same size, and re-use the old front (too old to match any more). It looked like about $300 or so, because no one was willing to part with just the back. So I re-built. A single 4x8 sheet of decent 3/4" cabinet plywood cost me about $45 at Lowes and was more that enough. Going 1/2" should be even cheaper and more than good enough for most other applications. I used some contaminated polyurethane I had lying around as a sort of stain/waterproofing. I damaged the face some when I removed it from the old cabinet, and spent $7 or so on wood filler and a matching stain. As for the face, that's something that depends on exactly what you want. Painted MDF is cheap and easy and works fine in some environments. Maybe cost you a total of $55 for a 34" -cabinet with materials and all (hinges, paint, handles, etc...). Start using some really nice hardwood, and your costs can go up significantly. You'll have to price that yourself. Also, don't forget any time you'll need for router work (prep and actual work), along with the necessary purchase of new bits. Another thought - what about re-using and re-finishing your old cabinet faces? That'll really cut your costs. -- Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer |
#8
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I (we) have a $30,000 kitchen (1). I (we) spent around
$15,000 (ish). (1) Actually it's hard to say. I (we) never had it priced out but from what I (we) have seen the project would have been somewhere between $25,000 and $35,000. UA100 |
#9
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"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home. Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money (which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make (assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them. Absolutely worth it, IMO ... and it's not so much the "markup", but the customized _quality_ you can impart to the boxes that you simply can't easily find at any price these days. Even if you sub out the doors and drawer fronts, you will unquestionably come out ahead with custom, built-for-your-space, boxes. Building roughly a house a year (in the $700K range) the past few years, as of a couple of years ago I started doing the kitchens myself as well (AAMOF, I am working on one as we speak), and wouldn't take the time out of a very busy schedule to do it without good reason. I can unequivocally, hands down beat the subs in this area with regard to their workmanship, and in the process stick an extra $5 - $15K in my pocket for a few weeks work (even with subbing out the doors and drawer fronts to a local custom door company, or as I did on my house, supplying them with the materials and have them use their shapers to mill the door and drawer fronts parts for my assembly). Give it serious consideration ... if you have a copy of CutList Plust and can open .dwg files, I'll be glad to send you the files on the current kitchen I am working on at the moment so that you can see for yourself what is involved. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 11/06/04 |
#10
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"Swingman" wrote in message ...
Give it serious consideration ... if you have a copy of CutList Plust and can open .dwg files, I'll be glad to send you the files on the current kitchen I am working on at the moment so that you can see for yourself what is involved. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 11/06/04 Swingman, I've been working on plans for a kitchen remodel myself. I would appreciate it if you could send me your .dwg files to look at. My email addy is areidjr at reid-home dot com. TIA, -- Al Reid |
#11
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I rebuilt my kitchen the hard way. I tore the end of my house off and put it
back. Seriously. I never did get a hard quote on someone -else doing it, but I can give you my cost numbers: Scope: * 8' bank of uppers (6 doors) * 8' bank of lowers (6 doors/6drawers) * 8ish ' bank of lowers (4 doors 8 drawers) * 3'x4' (base) island (3 drawers 3 doors) * 18" built-in cabinet floor to ceiling (2 doors) * 24" built-in cabinet counter to ceiling (roll-top/tabbour door + open shelves) materials: Maple-veneer ply (3/4 for carcases, 1/2 for backs 1/4 for door panels) solid maple for face frames drawers and door frames. 4 years ago I paid about : $800 for sheet stock (average $57/sheet), $700 for solids (3.40/bf) About $500 for hinges drawer slides knobs and pulls (I did not buy high-end hardware... 3/4 extension slides/ $2 knobs). BTW: these guys have the excellent selection of hardware, decent prices and a *really* useful search engine. http://www.thehardwarehut.com/index.php rant-on It ****es me off when I have to page through knobs based manuufacturer. I could give a Sh*t who made it.... show me all the round satin nickel ones rant-off No, I am not affiliated. So my material cost was about $2K. This does *not* include and counter top costs or plumbing fixtures. It also does not include any tooling costs. Can you save money. *but* answer these first: Do you have the skills? How much additional tooling will you require? Can you prebuild and store these components prior to demolition? Can your family tolerate your folly? - this is really the big one Since my project was really building an addition which included a kitchen, I had a whole set of additional issues to deal with. The project went months beyond schedule, but this had it's upside. The delays let me build up more cash reserves to upgrade to granite counters and allowed me to get the ass-kick'n pro-style range hood. I "justified" my upgrade to a cabinet saw with this project. I also upgraded my planer. Stuff I would have bought eventually anyway, so I can't really charge that completely as a project expense. Let me know if you would like any more data. Also, don't underestimate the value of getting *exactly* what you want. If you want 14-3/8" wide doors so that it will work out that all the doors are identical, making the kitchen look all that more integrated... then you can have it! -Steve |
#12
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I am in about two weeks starting major kitchen remodeling which will include
tearing down everything, including floor and garden window. I will be doing everything myself with my Dad's help. My wife and I recently visited about 6 showrooms that sell high end kitchen cabinets. We never planned to buy cabinets just wanted to see the styles. Custom kitchen cabinets in NYC Metro area start at about $1600 per linear foot, those that we liked with carvings and moldings were for $2K per linear foot. It is just cabinets with no countertops or undercabinet lights. So for my not big kitchen 12 X 12 sqft only cabinets would cost around $45K. I already ordered cherry which will be used for face frame, doors, moldings, etc. and hard maple which I will use for drawer sides and shelves. Total cost is $2000. I need about 8 sheet of plywood another $400 or so. Cabinet hardware (slides, hinges, two lazy susans, knobs, etc.) and finish will add between $500 and $1000. As you see total cost I estimate will be around $3500 at worst. In addition to substantial savings I will do exactly the dimensions and styles I want which I believe is not possible with factory made cabinets even custom ones unless you higher a private cabinet maker but then cost will be even higher. Entire cost of kitchen remodeling by DIY according to my budget that I created will be around $15K compared to $70K+ by hiring contractor. "Todd Fatheree" wrote in message ... We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home. Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money (which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make (assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them. todd |
#13
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Todd,
During my sister-in-laws kitchen remodeling, I "volunteered" to do the kitchen cabinets. Ended up that I made around 40 raised panel cabinet doors, a dozen new drawers and a couple of 7' long raised panels from hell for a storage cabinet. The cabinets themselves were in good shape and made from solid pine and those were kept but sanded and painted. They live in a log cabin style home and the painted cabinets (moss green) against the stained logs look great.. She has a good eye for decorating and colors. Cost of materials was around $550 for poplar (raised panels) and white ash (frames) and included Euro hinges, door pulls plus finishing materials. We had the same list priced out at the borg. No hardware, no finishing included, plus shipping cost (?) but their quote for unspecified hardwood wood frames with MDF raised panels was close to $3,000 with tax. A significant difference but follows what one other poster said - materials plus a 4 or 5 times multiplier. And yes... I used the opportunity to pick up a few new router bit sets and some extra K-Body clamps too. Since I did this on a catch-as-catch can basis for time, I really didn't keep track of the hours but they were done in two months spare time in my small shop. That time included going to the mill, picking out the kiln dried, rough sawn lumber, milling it myself, letting it acclimate, final milling, cutting, routing, panel glue-ups, sanding, and assembly. Also made 15' of fancy trim she wanted for her spanky new (bumped-out) kitchen window. On-line price was $5 per foot and I made it out of left over poplar and the cost of a router bit I needed ($15) to mold part of the profile. On average, material cost for a raised panel cabinet door with Euro hinges and a ceramic pull came to $11 per door - using poplar and ash. If she had wanted oak - the cost was about $15 per door and for cherry, nearly $20. We have an excellent mill within a 30 minute drive that has reasonable prices and that definitely helped in keeping costs down. Bob S. "Todd Fatheree" wrote in message ... We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home. Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money (which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make (assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them. todd |
#14
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Also made 15' of fancy trim she wanted for her
spanky new (bumped-out) kitchen window. On-line price was $5 per foot and I made it out of left over poplar and the cost of a router bit I needed ($15) to mold part of the profile. Bob makes a good point here. Doing your own makes it fairly simple to incorporate some design elements from the cabinets into the room trim. IMHO this is a nice benefit that you could only otherwise get by paying for a full-custom cabinet install (not a semi-custom order from the borg) -Steve |
#15
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I have done the numbers several times. You can save a
bunch of money by doing it yourself BUT based on my experience and the other stories told here, you might want to consider the following: 1. Time issues (can you work in a hurry ?) 2. Space issues (where do you put an extra kitchen ?) 3. Finishing (Do you know to spray and do you have tools ?) 4. Materials (Do your own doors or hire it out?) 5. Pressure (Destroy existing kitchen and live at same time) 6. Skills (Design and install-looks easy on tv doesn't it?) 7. Can you buy decent materials "easily" on a local basis ? The single biggest issue I have seen discussed here, has been a very simple one... T I M E . Can you work a normal job and come home to a wrecked kitchen for several days/weeks/months/years on end without creating a little strife in the old homestead ? Just remember, when you take down the kitchen, the entire house comes to a screeching halt. How do you handle MAJOR problems while under pressure ??? (Ex: What do you mean the new refrigerator will not fit ?) You can save a lot of money, but how you do that has several options attached. I think we all believe in our heart we can do it, but then that litte voice keeps saying "Let's be careful what we say". (I am faced with the "exact same problem" this year or next.) Todd Fatheree wrote: We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home. Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. |
#16
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"Al Reid" wrote in message I've been working on plans for a kitchen remodel myself. I would appreciate it if you could send me your .dwg files to look at. My email addy is areidjr at reid-home dot com. Check your inbox ... hopefully I translated your e-mail address correctly. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 11/06/04 |
#17
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"Swingman" wrote in message ... "Al Reid" wrote in message I've been working on plans for a kitchen remodel myself. I would appreciate it if you could send me your .dwg files to look at. My email addy is areidjr at reid-home dot com. Check your inbox ... hopefully I translated your e-mail address correctly. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 11/06/04 Thanks. I'll check it when I get home. -- Al Reid |
#18
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Unisaw A-100 wrote in
: I (we) have a $30,000 kitchen (1). I (we) spent around $15,000 (ish). (1) Actually it's hard to say. I (we) never had it priced out but from what I (we) have seen the project would have been somewhere between $25,000 and $35,000. UA100 Heck, you probably have that much invested in vintage iron! Does it look as nice as the opera house? ;-) Patriarch |
#19
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1. I agree that time is probably the key factor. I think the only way this
will work is if I get a big head start. 2. The new kitchen will be fully housed in the new addition, so we don't have to worry about space issues or how the current kitchen will be affected. 3. I'm going to be visiting my cousin who runs a woodworking business next month. He sprays a lot of precat lacquer, so I'd like to get some pointers from him and practice spraying. 4. I'd probably do my own doors, which I've done before. 5. N/A 6. Covered. 7. The materials are readily available. Thanks, todd "Pat Barber" wrote in message ... I have done the numbers several times. You can save a bunch of money by doing it yourself BUT based on my experience and the other stories told here, you might want to consider the following: 1. Time issues (can you work in a hurry ?) 2. Space issues (where do you put an extra kitchen ?) 3. Finishing (Do you know to spray and do you have tools ?) 4. Materials (Do your own doors or hire it out?) 5. Pressure (Destroy existing kitchen and live at same time) 6. Skills (Design and install-looks easy on tv doesn't it?) 7. Can you buy decent materials "easily" on a local basis ? The single biggest issue I have seen discussed here, has been a very simple one... T I M E . Can you work a normal job and come home to a wrecked kitchen for several days/weeks/months/years on end without creating a little strife in the old homestead ? Just remember, when you take down the kitchen, the entire house comes to a screeching halt. How do you handle MAJOR problems while under pressure ??? (Ex: What do you mean the new refrigerator will not fit ?) You can save a lot of money, but how you do that has several options attached. I think we all believe in our heart we can do it, but then that litte voice keeps saying "Let's be careful what we say". (I am faced with the "exact same problem" this year or next.) Todd Fatheree wrote: We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home. Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. |
#20
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Give it serious consideration ... if you have a copy of CutList
Plust and can open .dwg files, I'll be glad to send you the files on the current kitchen I am working on at the moment so that you can see for yourself what is involved. Swingman, Could I also get a copy of the file? I'm considering building a new house and always like to see what others are doing. email -- darwincam at gmail.com Thank you! Darwin |
#21
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Todd,
I'm wondering if anyone who has built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make We built our own kitchen cabinets for a variety of reasons. 1. We built the house ourselves, so building the cabinets seemed a necessity. 2. We wanted the cabinets to look "rustic", but not junky. Anything even approaching this look commercially was very expensive. We built our own out of birch plywood and pine boards we bought from Lowes. The look is exactly what we were looking for. 3. The commercial cabinets we looked at were rather cheaply built. Lots of particle board, cheap drawer slides (or none at all), many staples, plastic pieces, etc. 4. Commercial cabinets come in selection of "fixed" sizes (24" wide, 26" wide, 28" wide, etc.). Since kitchens are rarely exact multiples of these sizes, you end up having to use filler strips that just waste space. By building ourselves, I was able to build cabinets the exact sizes we needed (i.e. 29.5" wide) with no filler strips. No wasted space. 5. Building our own cabinets allowed us to include features that aren't available in commercial cabinets. For instance, an extra deep base cabinet next to the refrigerator to allow the fridge more room, or the full height pantry cabinet next to the refrigerator, or the 5 foot wide base cabinet that lets us reach back into the corner easily, or the custom corner cabinet under the corner sink, or the bathroom cabinet with the drawer that fits around the sink (no wasted space behind a dummy panel). You get the idea... I probably built a couple of cabinets (depending on size) out of a $50 sheet of 3/4" birch plywood, a $20 sheet of 1/4" birch ply, and $20 worth of pine boards. That same $90 would only buy one really cheap particle board cabinet from the home centers. But, there's a lot variables when you are comparing costs. Commercial cabinets may end up costing less, but they certainly won't be made as well at the same price levels. You get what you pay for... If you have the time, tools, and basic skills, I vote for building your own cabinets. If you're in a rush, or have limited experience, buying ready built cabinets might be a better option. Anthony |
#22
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On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:33:17 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:
"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home. Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money (which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make (assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them. Don't know about a large square kitchen shape, but in ours - a small galley kitchen with two sets of triangular cabinets to miss the doors - we were quoted something ridiculous (£1400) for a custom install, and I made the cabs, bought the doors for a ttal of about £300. One thingI will say - get the missus involved in the planning - if she don't like it she won't use it!!!! |
#23
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BTDT! Kitchen Craft was what we ended up with as my knees and
inexperience ruled me out. Would never select them again and didn't this time the certifiable kitchen designer is affiliated with them, a sub I'm convinced. Original schedule from demolish to a viable kitchen was doubled in time scheduled which I believe was part of the smoke and mirrors approach of the design/manufacture/contractor "team". Wife was very patient and we "lived" in the garage where I had put in a sink and drainboard for ceramics years ago. Hate to consider what we'd have done without the sink! About like camping in the garage without the forest and mountain air to enjoy. After they left I built full extension drawers above the deep oven/fridge that we enjoy. Didn't end up with deep storage that gets accessed once per year at XMAS but have access to items we can get to without a step stool. Drawer under the smooth cooktop was cut down to fit under the cooktop and ended up as the ideal place to store small spice jars and stuff, right where they're used. On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:43:44 GMT, Pat Barber wrote: Just remember, when you take down the kitchen, the entire house comes to a screeching halt. |
#24
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"Todd Fatheree" wrote:
Snip So, I'm wondering if anyone who has built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make (assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). /snip Ah, that's the big question isn't it? The value of your time. If I remember my econ 101, that's called opportunity cost. If you weren't building kitchen cabinets, what would you be doing? If you would be engaged in something that made more money than the cabinets cost to buy, then (all else being equal) you'd be better off to buy them. On the other hand, if you come home at night and build cabinets rather than watch the tube, you are much farther ahead to build them yourself. For me, the pluses that would lean me towards making them myself a 1) Personal satisfaction 2) I don't think they are that hard to build. From the viewpoint of "your time has no value", just the lumber & hardware will be way less than purchasing an equal quality cabinet. Plus, you might be able your convince your significant other that you need this new tool, but look at how much money you're saving -- San Diego Joe |
#25
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Todd Fatheree wrote:
there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I want, but also to save some bucks. If you build them yourself you will... 1. Save BIG bucks 2. Have - maybe - far better, more useful cabinets than you would have if purchased. I can't give you a cost comparison because I never even considered *not* building them Used 3/4 mel board for the cases, solid butternut for the face frames, doors, drawers etc. Most storage is in the base cabinets and each of those has either pull out shelves or a bigger, compartmented pull out. All drawers are compartmentalized with moveable partitions. There are 35 running feet of base cabinets (including 3'x5' island) and 17 running feet of uppers. Total cost including hardware (just slides and hinges), tile for all counter tops, a custom fabricated SS stove hood, 8 gallons of lacquer and incidentals was $3,984 about seven years ago. Of that, $1,800 was for the butternut, about 800 bf. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#26
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on 4/6/2005 2:33 PM nospambob said the following:
BTDT! Kitchen Craft was what we ended up with as my knees and inexperience ruled me out. Would never select them again and didn't this time the certifiable kitchen designer is affiliated with them, a Comments about the kitchen being the house are very valid. OTOH, if you're inclined to do it yourself you DO save a ton of money, you have or should have EXACTLY what you want, and YOU control the delays. In our case, the makeover involved taking a 30 year old kitchen down to the studwalls (not bare walls, stud walls). Changed the ceiling a bit with addition of soffit and downlighting, skylights, new floor, etc. Added two additional circuits to the already well-supplied room. We knew we would be "roughing it" for a bit as this was a DIY project. Through some good job planning on my part, we only "lost" the kitchen for six days and, at that, all we lost was the kitchen sink. Had I been a bit more industrious and desirous of duplicating my work by removing and replacing the existing sink while we waited for the Corian countertops with integral sink to be fabricated, we could have had near full use of the kitchen without interruption. Our only break in service came from the time I yanked the old sink wall base cabinets and sink out and installed the new. No sink from the time the fabricator came in and did his measurements till he delivered six days later. Knowing this would be the one "open" spot I couldn't control, lessened the delay since I really wasn't at the mercy of some contractor who could care less that we were washing dishes in a bathtub, etc. I had a lock on the fabricator coming in on Monday morning so, guess what? The sink base, etc. was removed on Sunday afternoon and evening and the new base installed. No matter who does the work, you're likely going to lose the kitchen for a couple of days. I happen to believe we suffered less at my hands than we would have - sans taking a cruise while the work was being done - at the hands of a contractor. Not to mention all the fun I had (and the sliding compound miter saw, a pneumatic nailer, etc. that the project "required"g). |
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"San Diego Joe" wrote in message 1) Personal satisfaction 2) I don't think they are that hard to build. This is the thinking that I subscribe to, although I dream of something on a much larger scale. My dream is to when I finally buy my first house, to have just the bare shell of a house. Water and electrical roughed in, at least one working toilet and that's it. Lock me in there, throw in some pizza and beer every few days and let me build the inside of the house. I can't think of too many things I'd find more enjoyable. I know it sounds boring, but there you are. |
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Patriarch wrote:
Does it look as nice as the opera house? ;-) 'Fraid not. UA100 |
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Getting lots of replies .
We are doing a bit of a remodel to our house. This includes turning a room that wasn't a kitchen into a kitchen - so our old kitchen is in service until the new one is complete. I went to one of the high-end cabinet makers in town with plan in hand - as created by SWMBO. This is a cherry shaker design. He didn't due a detailed bid, but he guestimated about $12K - $14K for the cabs and another $2k for installation. We also went to a couple of the custom kitchen retailers that sold Dynasty and Omega and they came in about $1K or $2K cheaper. I didn't price cabs at the borg, but I didn't see anything there that I really wanted in my kitchen. I expect that they would have come in a bit under $10K. I costed out the materials using prefinished maple ply for the carcases to lessen finishing requirements and using Waterlox for all the cherry bits. My costing included the blum tandem full extension undermount slides that run close to $30/pair and a few other pricey gadgets like a $150 mixer stand thingy. Anyway, my total cost came to about $4500. I probably cannot build cabs as good as the custom guy would have (I've seen his work at a friends house). But I know that my cabs will be better than anything I can get at the borg and anything that I saw from Dynasty or Omega. I figure that I will be saving about $8K - $10K which will go right to a nice new Wolf range (to replace the Magic Chef that has been destroying my food for the last 10 years) and granite countertops. Building the cabs is not difficult, BUT it is a lot of work and is taking me quite a bit of time - ymmv. In my case, I am building all of the doors and drawers. This has certainly added a lot to the overall time I have spent on the project. I think I have spent more time prepping materials than I have actually building stuff. I am building face frame cabinets using the methods described in Jim Tolpin's _Building Traditional Kitchen Cabinets_ Have a go at it. But be prepared to spend all of your weekends and evenings building cabinets for the next month or two or more... Todd Fatheree wrote: We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home. Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money (which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make (assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them. todd |
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Anxious to hear more. This was something I looked at as well.
I'm installing a solid surface countertop, Thursday, on a set of cabinets bought from HD. When I took the template last week, I got into a lenghty discussion with the home-owner about the saving etc. He popped open his laptop and showed me about a dozen spreadsheets. That couple sure did their homework. Very revealing, to say the least. Bottom line? They ended up with a new 16ga undermount stainless steel sink, 20 feet of solid surface material (mine) installed, a set of Kohler taps and all the taxes paid...basically for free. You bet your a*ss it's worth it. They learned as they went along....took their time. So, the home owner DID install HD cabinets? But with spreadsheets and research, proved to you, that they could have saved thousands? Or they didn't install the HD cabinets and were able to purchase all the extras with the savings? A jigsaw and a cordless drill. Period. What are you saying here? He did mention he had some issues regarding the sizes of the cabinets he ordered, delaying the completion by about 3 weeks. Home Depot's fault on 2 cabinets, one fault his, and one mislabelled. This is what has me confused...the home owner did...or did not purchase HD cabinets? |
#31
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"Wyatt" wrote in message Anyway, my total cost came to about $4500. I probably cannot build cabs as good as the custom guy would have (I've seen his work at a friends house). But I know that my cabs will be better than anything I can get at the borg and anything that I saw from Dynasty or Omega. I figure that I will be saving about $8K - $10K which will go right to a nice new Wolf range (to replace the Magic Chef that has been destroying my food for the last 10 years) and granite countertops. Doesn't it come down the biggest benefit of all ~ the bragging rights factor? If that's not worth something, then one might as well farm out as much work possible and go do something else more enjoyable. Saving money is nice, but if it's at the expense of not liking what you're doing, then it only goes so far. |
#32
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This is what has me confused...the home owner did...or did not purchase HD cabinets? Home owners bought RTA HD cabinets, and did the install themselves, saving thousands... thousands which they spent on important upgrades. |
#33
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"Robatoy" wrote in message ... This is what has me confused...the home owner did...or did not purchase HD cabinets? Home owners bought RTA HD cabinets, and did the install themselves, saving thousands... thousands which they spent on important upgrades. They could have saved thousands more had they had the equipment to build them themselves. If they spent over $2000 for the average sized kitchen with Oak cabinets and solid Oak Raised panel doors, NO plastic anywhere including bracing, full extension hinges and Blum Euro hinges, they spent more than they had to. I have compared my pricing to the Borg pricing and I always win when comparing apples to apples and quality and I am making a respectable profit. Now if they did not have the time or skill I could understand the move. |
#34
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I have built several sets of kitchen cabinets and always saved big time.
Last week I finished a 7 foot long base cabinet with 9 drawers and a formica top. It cost me around $175 to $200. Exact cost unkown since I used some left overs for the interior bulkheads and formica top. The only catch for me is door or drawer front style since that can call for special tools or milling from a shop. I generally go with something simple if I can talk SWMBO into it. One set had doors that were grooved on a table saw using a molding head. My last project had oak plywood drawer fronts with oak trim surrounding the edges. I'd saw go for it if at all possible. Another big plus for me: I used the latest project as an excuse for a Dewalt mitre saw and am extremely happy with that also. Good luck and have fun. RonT |
#36
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In article ,
"Leon" wrote: Now if they did not have the time or skill I could understand the move. Her quote: No time to 'really' get into it. Personally, I was completely underwhelmed by the doors. Splitting already. I also have no idea where on the scale of HD products their selection sits... if there even is a 'higher-end'. I find everything expensive at HD. My favourite, here in Kanuckistan, is 1/2 a sheet of 5/8" MDF is 27 dollars, a whole 4 x 8 sheet is 29 bucks. (Or something along those lines..please don't flame me, folks.) the half sheets measures 48" x 48" not 49 x 48 1/2" I just don't know about that place. I much prefer Lowe's across the river in Port Huron MI...10 minute drive..tops. |
#37
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Leon wrote:
They could have saved thousands more had they had the equipment to build them themselves. Yahbut, that's like saying you're buying a boat to cut down on the cost of fish. :-) UA100 |
#38
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"Stephen M" wrote in message ... I rebuilt my kitchen the hard way. I tore the end of my house off and put it back. Seriously. snip I "justified" my upgrade to a cabinet saw with this project. I also upgraded my planer. Stuff I would have bought eventually anyway, so I can't really charge that completely as a project expense. snip -Steve I like it , I use something similar on a regular basis to ease the guilt(NOT) of being a tool whore. It also pacifies SWMBO on occasion. Andrew |
#39
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"Unisaw A-100" wrote in message ... Leon wrote: They could have saved thousands more had they had the equipment to build them themselves. Yahbut, that's like saying you're buying a boat to cut down on the cost of fish. :-) Yeah that did not come out quite right. If they had already had the equipment, they wasted money by not using it. |
#40
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=20
"Robatoy" wrote in message = ... | In article , | "Leon" wrote: |=20 | Now if they did not have the time or skill I could understand the = move. |=20 | Her quote: No time to 'really' get into it. |=20 | Personally, I was completely underwhelmed by the doors. Splitting=20 | already. | I also have no idea where on the scale of HD products their selection=20 | sits... if there even is a 'higher-end'. | I find everything expensive at HD. | My favourite, here in Kanuckistan, is 1/2 a sheet of 5/8" MDF is 27=20 | dollars, a whole 4 x 8 sheet is 29 bucks. (Or something along those=20 | lines..please don't flame me, folks.) the half sheets measures 48" x = 48" | not 49 x 48 1/2" | I just don't know about that place. I much prefer Lowe's across the=20 | river in Port Huron MI...10 minute drive..tops. Must be nice living in Sarnia. I still miss the old Satellite Bar. Not = to mention a few others. --=20 PDQ -- |
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