Talon Chuck questions
 

Just got my new chuck-- Questions-- When I spin the chuck onto the
inboard side of the lathe, it only contacts about three threads (1 x 8
tpi) The adaptor came with two threaded holes for set screws, but no
screws. I think I would feel better if I were able to use the set
screws.
Should I worry about this?
Should the chuck adaptor have come with the screws? If not, does anyone
know the specs of the screws? ( dia & tpi)
Thanks, Phil

You don't need the screws for regular turning since the force of the cutting
tightens the chuck on the thread. The number of threads contacting is
plenty. You should use the screws when you are cutting with the lathe in
reverse. Light sanding should be OK in reverse without the screws but as a
precaution they are a good idea when doing anything in reverse.
The screws do not come with the chuck and they are metric M8 setscrews. I
think the M8 specifies the thread pitch as well as the diameter but am not
100% positive about that.
Billh

wrote in message
oups.com...
Just got my new chuck-- Questions-- When I spin the chuck onto the
inboard side of the lathe, it only contacts about three threads (1 x 8
tpi) The adaptor came with two threaded holes for set screws, but no
screws. I think I would feel better if I were able to use the set
screws.
Should I worry about this?
Should the chuck adaptor have come with the screws? If not, does anyone
know the specs of the screws? ( dia & tpi)
Thanks, Phil

I checked the specs on my rotary adapter and the set screws are specified as
M8 *10. I think the 10 is actually the length of the screw (10mm or 1cm or
about 0.4"). I looked at some I have and it looks like the thread pitch is
around 8 threads/cm which is probably where the 8 came from.
They send them with the rotary adapter so you can seal the holes in the
taper-lock adapter to prevent air leaks.
Billh


"billh" wrote in message
...
You don't need the screws for regular turning since the force of the
cutting tightens the chuck on the thread. The number of threads contacting
is plenty. You should use the screws when you are cutting with the lathe
in reverse. Light sanding should be OK in reverse without the screws but
as a precaution they are a good idea when doing anything in reverse.
The screws do not come with the chuck and they are metric M8 setscrews. I
think the M8 specifies the thread pitch as well as the diameter but am not
100% positive about that.
Billh

wrote in message
oups.com...
Just got my new chuck-- Questions-- When I spin the chuck onto the
inboard side of the lathe, it only contacts about three threads (1 x 8
tpi) The adaptor came with two threaded holes for set screws, but no
screws. I think I would feel better if I were able to use the set
screws.
Should I worry about this?
Should the chuck adaptor have come with the screws? If not, does anyone
know the specs of the screws? ( dia & tpi)
Thanks, Phil

billh wrote:
You don't need the screws for regular turning since the force of the cutting
tightens the chuck on the thread. The number of threads contacting is
plenty. You should use the screws when you are cutting with the lathe in
reverse. Light sanding should be OK in reverse without the screws but as a
precaution they are a good idea when doing anything in reverse.
The screws do not come with the chuck and they are metric M8 setscrews. I
think the M8 specifies the thread pitch as well as the diameter but am not
100% positive about that.

Nope ... there's a coarse (1.25mm pitch) and a fine (1.0mm pitch)
version of M8 and upwards. See

http://www.metrication.com/engineering/threads.htm

That having been said, I'd bet on it being the fine version.
--
Alun Saunders

I just upgraded my lathe, and replaced the tapered adapter on my
Stronghold Chuck. (I believe it's the same adapter as the Talon). The
new adapter did not come with set screws, and since my new lathe is
reversible, I asked Oneway about them. Here's the response -

"The set screws are M8. We stopped including them as people were using
them on spindles which were not built for set screw locking and
damaging their spindles and then blaming us."

Seems that reversible lathes have an unthreaded portion at the
headstock end of the spindle, and others don't. At least my jet 1236
didn't.

I went to Lowes and bought M8 1.25 x 16 socket head cap screws. I
haven't tried them yet, but the 16mm length might be a tad too short.
I'll know for sure when my lathe gets here.

"Alun Saunders" wrote in message
...
billh wrote:
You don't need the screws for regular turning since the force of the
cutting tightens the chuck on the thread. The number of threads
contacting is plenty. You should use the screws when you are cutting with
the lathe in reverse. Light sanding should be OK in reverse without the
screws but as a precaution they are a good idea when doing anything in
reverse.
The screws do not come with the chuck and they are metric M8 setscrews. I
think the M8 specifies the thread pitch as well as the diameter but am
not 100% positive about that.

Nope ... there's a coarse (1.25mm pitch) and a fine (1.0mm pitch) version
of M8 and upwards. See

http://www.metrication.com/engineering/threads.htm

That having been said, I'd bet on it being the fine version.
--
Alun Saunders

Thanks for the info. After peering at 10mm worth of thread under a magnifier
lamp I think it is actually the coarse thread but I wouldn't want to be my
life on it. As usual, best to take the threaded piece to the store!
Billh

"Ron Kolakowski" wrote in message
ups.com...
I just upgraded my lathe, and replaced the tapered adapter on my
Stronghold Chuck. (I believe it's the same adapter as the Talon). The
new adapter did not come with set screws, and since my new lathe is
reversible, I asked Oneway about them. Here's the response -

"The set screws are M8. We stopped including them as people were using
them on spindles which were not built for set screw locking and
damaging their spindles and then blaming us."

Seems that reversible lathes have an unthreaded portion at the
headstock end of the spindle, and others don't. At least my jet 1236
didn't.

I went to Lowes and bought M8 1.25 x 16 socket head cap screws. I
haven't tried them yet, but the 16mm length might be a tad too short.
I'll know for sure when my lathe gets here.


Ron,
The adapters for Oneway chucks are actually designed for the spindle on
Oneway lathes which have a mating unthreaded portion that is a bit recessed
from what I understand. Some, usually more expensive lathes, also have
hardened spindles which means the screws won't damage the thread or are less
likely to damage the thread.
My reversing General has an unthreaded portion on its spindle but it isn't
wide enough to mate with the chuck screws so they do impact on the threads.
I bought some brass screws and cut pieces of them to fit between the chuck
locking screw and the lathe thread. The brass won't damage the thread. I
don't really use the lathe much in reverse to it is far from a big deal to
me.
If you aren't runnin the lathe in reverse there is no need for the locking
screws.

Billh

Maybe I shouldn't have gotten the L/R thread on my adaptor (from what I
see here-- Ron) & I wouldn't have to be worrying-- Does the RH thd
have a counterbore (recess) ? I was thinking-- "maybe I'll use it on
the outboard side for sanding" & ordered the L/R adaptor instead of the
RH adaptor-- Many tks for all the responses-- Can't wait to turn the
lid for my new urn on it (glue dry tomorrow)
PH

Hi All

OK this better be right you made me go to my shop twice !@#@*!!!
I have a Oneway Chuck and the adapter I use is for a shopsmith, the
shopsmith has a plain shaft, (no thread) and the adapter has to hold
with the set screw, my adapter has a set screw, and it is a 5/16X18NC
NOT I SAY AGAIN, NOT 8 mm or as you say a M8, I grew up with both metric
and imperial, and know of the sometimes very close sizes in relation to
each other, that is why I after checking my adapter, and reading your
post, I went back to make sure, used thread pitch gauge, taps and dial
caliper, and am sure it is not M8X1.25 or M8X1.00, but 5/16"X18NC.

BTW the numbers M6, M8,M9, M10,M12, etc. is the Diameter bold, so M6 is
6mm D. and M16 is 16mm D.
The other numbers like 0.90 or 1.00 or 1.25 etc. is the thread pitch,
0.90 tells you the thread pitch is 0.9 mm, and M12X1.75 would mean a
12mm bold with a 1.75 mm pitch thread
As in imperial 18NC or 24 NF where they would tell you the number of
thread per inch on your bold, were 3/8X16NC would tell you it's a 3/8D
bolt with 16 TPI thread.
Hope this makes things a bid more clear.


Ron Kolakowski wrote:
I just upgraded my lathe, and replaced the tapered adapter on my
Stronghold Chuck. (I believe it's the same adapter as the Talon). The
new adapter did not come with set screws, and since my new lathe is
reversible, I asked Oneway about them. Here's the response -

"The set screws are M8. We stopped including them as people were using
them on spindles which were not built for set screw locking and
damaging their spindles and then blaming us."

Seems that reversible lathes have an unthreaded portion at the
headstock end of the spindle, and others don't. At least my jet 1236
didn't.

I went to Lowes and bought M8 1.25 x 16 socket head cap screws. I
haven't tried them yet, but the 16mm length might be a tad too short.
I'll know for sure when my lathe gets here.

Hi Bill

Like You say most lathes don't need the set screw, except when reversing
or for those lathes that have braking on them to slow down the spindle,
as for the adapters they are specifically designed to get around all the
different thread ends of all the different lathes, can you imagine the
inventory needed to keep some stock on hand for the whole range of lathes ??
Now they only have to keep a number of bodies and popular adapters on
hand, any special threaded adapter is quickly machined.
The unthreaded portion of spindle comes from the metal working lathes
were reverse running is almost universal, tapping threading etc. and you
better not forget to lock down your chuck.

http://www.oneway.on.ca/chucks/adaptors.htm

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

billh wrote:

Ron,
The adapters for Oneway chucks are actually designed for the spindle on
Oneway lathes which have a mating unthreaded portion that is a bit recessed
from what I understand. Some, usually more expensive lathes, also have
hardened spindles which means the screws won't damage the thread or are less
likely to damage the thread.
My reversing General has an unthreaded portion on its spindle but it isn't
wide enough to mate with the chuck screws so they do impact on the threads.
I bought some brass screws and cut pieces of them to fit between the chuck
locking screw and the lathe thread. The brass won't damage the thread. I
don't really use the lathe much in reverse to it is far from a big deal to
me.
If you aren't runnin the lathe in reverse there is no need for the locking
screws.

Billh

Thanks,Leo. Hope it's not a long walk to your shop! What model of
Oneway chuck do you have - I think they make 3 different ones. I
thought they all used the same taper adapters, but I could very well be
mistaken. In any case, the M8 set screw is what was called out by the
support folks at Oneway, and an M8 x 1.25 fit the adapter in my
Stronghold perfectly. Bill - Thanks for your tip. I have a Jet 1642 on
order, and will check the shaft before using the set screws. It does
have electronic braking, so I may have to go the brass set-screw route

I like use reverse a lot when sanding. There are plastic anti lock
spindle washers (Craft Supply and Packard)designed to go between the
spindle and the chuck or face plate. It helps to keep them from getting
locked on. It also helps keep things on when using reverse. I can use a
fair amount of pressure when sanding without things coming loose. If it
does come loose, let go and it will stop unwinding. Then turn off the
lathe. My lathe has a brake, and I have never had anything come loose.
robo hippy



















Ron Kolakowski wrote:
Thanks,Leo. Hope it's not a long walk to your shop! What model of
Oneway chuck do you have - I think they make 3 different ones. I
thought they all used the same taper adapters, but I could very well
be
mistaken. In any case, the M8 set screw is what was called out by the
support folks at Oneway, and an M8 x 1.25 fit the adapter in my
Stronghold perfectly. Bill - Thanks for your tip. I have a Jet 1642
on
order, and will check the shaft before using the set screws. It does
have electronic braking, so I may have to go the brass set-screw
route

The L/R makes no difference compared to just the RH. It is just an adapter
that is threaded with both RH and LH threads. When you screw it on the
inboard side of the spindle the R threads engage, screw it on a LH thread
and the other (L) threads engage.
Put it on the spindle but don't tighten it more than just enough to hold it
on. Put some pressure against the chuck as if it were a turning tool
against a workpiece and turn the spindle in the normal direction. You will
notice that the chuck tightens itself on the spindle thread. There is no way
it will loosen while turning. The situation with electronic braking is a
bit different in that if the braking is particularly abrupt the momentum of
the chuck and workpiece (usually a heavy bowl blank) will cause it to
unthread when the spindle stops. Normally the braking is setup to give
quicker stops and to also avoid unscrewing the work.

I got a bad catch the other day and stopped the spindle and my outboard
handwheel turned off the spindle. I usually just put it on hand tight and I
run with the drive belt a bit on the loose side which was enough to allow
the spindle to quickly stop.
Billh

wrote in message
ups.com...
Maybe I shouldn't have gotten the L/R thread on my adaptor (from what I
see here-- Ron) & I wouldn't have to be worrying-- Does the RH thd
have a counterbore (recess) ? I was thinking-- "maybe I'll use it on
the outboard side for sanding" & ordered the L/R adaptor instead of the
RH adaptor-- Many tks for all the responses-- Can't wait to turn the
lid for my new urn on it (glue dry tomorrow)
PH

Hi Ron

I have the Oneway Stronghold, they very well could have changed the set
screw size and thread, it is always prudent to not just take the things
you're told for true, I've had a few lessons in life where I assumed
"they knew what they where talking about" but didn't, just check to make
sure, like measure twice and cut once G
The lathe I use does have reversing and I turn outboard mostly, my chuck
adapter is heat shrunk onto a MT shank so it does not make a difference
which way I run my lathe, the lathe has MT 5 in the head stock spindle,
and I have approx. a 36" swing.
Have a look at my web site if you care.

http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum18.html

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

Ron Kolakowski wrote:
Thanks,Leo. Hope it's not a long walk to your shop! What model of
Oneway chuck do you have - I think they make 3 different ones. I
thought they all used the same taper adapters, but I could very well be
mistaken. In any case, the M8 set screw is what was called out by the
support folks at Oneway, and an M8 x 1.25 fit the adapter in my
Stronghold perfectly. Bill - Thanks for your tip. I have a Jet 1642 on
order, and will check the shaft before using the set screws. It does
have electronic braking, so I may have to go the brass set-screw route

All of our adaptors use M8 locking screws except for the Shopsmith
adaptors, they use the standard shopsmith locking screw size which is
imperial.
Metric screws are typically specified by the major diameter and the
length which is really dumb as the pitch is not part of the
designation, but our set screws are all coarse pitch, fine pitch
metric screws are quite uncommon.
Set screw locking is starting to get to be a real mess as companies
are building spindles with accomodations for set screw locking but
which are peculiar to their own machines.
When we built our machines many people knocked us for using an M33
spindle instead on an 1-1/4 but we duplicated a spindle size that was
already out there and had a good locking groove design.
regards
Kevin Clay
Oneway Manufacturing

Hi, Leo

Great advice on checking info from the "experts", although in this case he
was right on. - Thanks,Kevin!

Back when I worked for a living, I spent some time as one of those folks who
gave advice, managing the technical support operation for a pretty high-tech
product line. While I never intentionally "blew smoke" at a customer, I sure
had times when we weren't 100% confident in our best answer! (Note, I didn't
mention the comapny to avoid embarassing them - since part of my retirement
income is tied their stock value - LOL)

I really enjoyed browsing your web site and congratulate you on your
beautiful work. Also got some great ideas, especially for an outboard tool
rest.

Thanks,
Ron

On 15 Feb 2005 09:37:58 -0800, wrote:

Just got my new chuck-- Questions-- When I spin the chuck onto the
inboard side of the lathe, it only contacts about three threads (1 x 8
tpi) The adaptor came with two threaded holes for set screws, but no
screws. I think I would feel better if I were able to use the set
screws.
Should I worry about this?
Should the chuck adaptor have come with the screws? If not, does anyone
know the specs of the screws? ( dia & tpi)
Thanks, Phil

your chuck works fine without the set screws.. maybe better without them,
actually..
you might mess up the threads on your headstock with set screws..

You Jet mini has a tapered shaft and the threads "jam" the chuck, faceplate,
etc. as you screw them on (gently)
Cutting or sanding force tighten the chuck onto the threads..

I ground a couple of pieces of round steel stock to fit the set screw holes... a
little longer than the knobbed rod that comes with the mini and tapered so that
the rod can't go deep enough to contact the threads on the shaft..
I use the rod in the chuck adapter hole and the knobbed rod in the collar of the
headstock shaft.. I figure that it puts less strain on the hand wheel when I'm
taking the chuck off.... YMMV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:39:00 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote:

Leo.. I have one of those also.. I was using the shopsmith before I got the
mini..
It's a different set screw.... "shopsmith" size..

Hi All

OK this better be right you made me go to my shop twice !@#@*!!!
I have a Oneway Chuck and the adapter I use is for a shopsmith, the
shopsmith has a plain shaft, (no thread) and the adapter has to hold
with the set screw, my adapter has a set screw, and it is a 5/16X18NC
NOT I SAY AGAIN, NOT 8 mm or as you say a M8, I grew up with both metric
and imperial, and know of the sometimes very close sizes in relation to
each other, that is why I after checking my adapter, and reading your
post, I went back to make sure, used thread pitch gauge, taps and dial
caliper, and am sure it is not M8X1.25 or M8X1.00, but 5/16"X18NC.

BTW the numbers M6, M8,M9, M10,M12, etc. is the Diameter bold, so M6 is
6mm D. and M16 is 16mm D.
The other numbers like 0.90 or 1.00 or 1.25 etc. is the thread pitch,
0.90 tells you the thread pitch is 0.9 mm, and M12X1.75 would mean a
12mm bold with a 1.75 mm pitch thread
As in imperial 18NC or 24 NF where they would tell you the number of
thread per inch on your bold, were 3/8X16NC would tell you it's a 3/8D
bolt with 16 TPI thread.
Hope this makes things a bid more clear.


Ron Kolakowski wrote:
I just upgraded my lathe, and replaced the tapered adapter on my
Stronghold Chuck. (I believe it's the same adapter as the Talon). The
new adapter did not come with set screws, and since my new lathe is
reversible, I asked Oneway about them. Here's the response -

"The set screws are M8. We stopped including them as people were using
them on spindles which were not built for set screw locking and
damaging their spindles and then blaming us."

Seems that reversible lathes have an unthreaded portion at the
headstock end of the spindle, and others don't. At least my jet 1236
didn't.

I went to Lowes and bought M8 1.25 x 16 socket head cap screws. I
haven't tried them yet, but the 16mm length might be a tad too short.
I'll know for sure when my lathe gets here.




mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Hi Ron, thanks.

I was not knocking Oneway, these people are just the best, and know what
they are doing.
I met Kevin and his Dad once at the Woodstock (Ontario) wood show,
that's when I was building the outboard on my lathe, they could not help
me, though it still was nice exchanging ideas.
As for your "advice" experience, Companies are only as good as their
people, and they don't always are above board, I worked for one of the
big three, and it was frustrating some times when you knew they were
making the wrong decisions, but nobody was listening, till the, I told
you so.
At the production end the bean counters don't make sense sometimes, its
all water under the bridge now, and I don't miss it for a second, bring
on the wood !!

Ron Kolakowski wrote:
Hi, Leo

Great advice on checking info from the "experts", although in this case he
was right on. - Thanks,Kevin!

Back when I worked for a living, I spent some time as one of those folks who
gave advice, managing the technical support operation for a pretty high-tech
product line. While I never intentionally "blew smoke" at a customer, I sure
had times when we weren't 100% confident in our best answer! (Note, I didn't
mention the comapny to avoid embarassing them - since part of my retirement
income is tied their stock value - LOL)

I really enjoyed browsing your web site and congratulate you on your
beautiful work. Also got some great ideas, especially for an outboard tool
rest.

Thanks,
Ron

Hi Mac

Yes G, we all found out just now from Kevin, why the difference is there.
I used the Oneway Shopsmith adapter for the reason that it already had a
straight smooth inside opening, for if I had bought one with thread, I
would have to cut thread on my morse taper shaft end, and than I would
also have to deal with the possible unscrewing of the assembly, this was
much simpler, it works great for me.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

mac davis wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:39:00 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote:

Leo.. I have one of those also.. I was using the shopsmith before I got the
mini..
It's a different set screw.... "shopsmith" size..

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:10:51 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote:

Same here, Leo... and the talon works very well on the shopsmith..
It didn't make sense to me to get a threaded adapter for the shopsmith, since i
use too many of the drilling and routing attachments.. I'll take the ol' allan
wrench any time.. *g*
Hi Mac

Yes G, we all found out just now from Kevin, why the difference is there.
I used the Oneway Shopsmith adapter for the reason that it already had a
straight smooth inside opening, for if I had bought one with thread, I
would have to cut thread on my morse taper shaft end, and than I would
also have to deal with the possible unscrewing of the assembly, this was
much simpler, it works great for me.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

mac davis wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:39:00 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote:

Leo.. I have one of those also.. I was using the shopsmith before I got the
mini..
It's a different set screw.... "shopsmith" size..




mac

Please remove splinters before emailing