Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters.

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robo hippy
 
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Default Salad bowl finishes





It seems like every book I have read says "don't use olive oil for a
finish on your salad bowls because it can/will go rancid" Well I do a
lot of shows and run into people who want to know how to get the
sticky, stinky, gummy feeling stuff off their bowls. As near as I can
tell the best answer is to burn it in the wood stove. I run into the
same number of people who have had the same bowl for 20 years and all
they ever put on it was olive oil, and don't get the buildup or smell.
I don't understand. I was at a show in Seattle and talking to Loyd
General, a bowl turner from Redding, CA. and all he puts on his bowls
is olive oil. He hasn't had any rancid problems. His theory is that the
grade of olive oil can make all the difference, with the lower grades
being much more pungent. Also he said that mixing of different
vegetable oils can cause problems. I have also had cooks tell me that
walnut oil can go rancid. It is a bit confusing. For now I tell my
customers to wipe it out well after use and not to let it sit until the
next day. I don't need any help in being somewhat confused, but would
like to hear from others. Currently I use a blend of walnut and mineral
oils, and then hand apply beeswax, which is then hand rubbed in while
on the lathe. I have noticed that this makes a nice hand lotion for my
hands after sanding the bowls.
robo hippy

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George
 
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Default

"robo hippy" wrote in message
oups.com...




It seems like every book I have read says "don't use olive oil for a
finish on your salad bowls because it can/will go rancid" Well I do a
lot of shows and run into people who want to know how to get the
sticky, stinky, gummy feeling stuff off their bowls. As near as I can
tell the best answer is to burn it in the wood stove. I run into the
same number of people who have had the same bowl for 20 years and all
they ever put on it was olive oil, and don't get the buildup or smell.
I don't understand. I was at a show in Seattle and talking to Loyd
General, a bowl turner from Redding, CA. and all he puts on his bowls
is olive oil. He hasn't had any rancid problems. His theory is that the
grade of olive oil can make all the difference, with the lower grades
being much more pungent. Also he said that mixing of different
vegetable oils can cause problems. I have also had cooks tell me that
walnut oil can go rancid. It is a bit confusing. For now I tell my
customers to wipe it out well after use and not to let it sit until the
next day. I don't need any help in being somewhat confused, but would
like to hear from others. Currently I use a blend of walnut and mineral
oils, and then hand apply beeswax, which is then hand rubbed in while
on the lathe. I have noticed that this makes a nice hand lotion for my
hands after sanding the bowls.
robo hippy


Incomplete oxidation is what makes the rancid smell. People who stack bowl
inside of bowl, reducing the availability of oxygen are going to run into
problems. The oil itself can also cause rancid odors if it's very thick,
and the surface keeps the interior oil from oxidizing. Free circulation - no
rancid.

No matter what finish you put on, unless the customer wipes with detergent
to emulsify and clear away the surface oil after use, it will eventually
build. Walnut oil is a great choice, because it does cross-link and cure,
but, without siccatives, it takes a while, and if you deny oxygen, it'll
smell rancid. Look at the bottle and you will see that you want to
refrigerate after opening. This is to slow the chemical process as you
provide more and more oxygen.

Lots of people like mineral oil, but it has its dark side as well. As it
never cures, it's subject to weeping in the sun, collecting dirt, and
sheltering bacterial spores and the bacteria themselves in a lipid-friendly
environment. What kills bacteria is the destruction of the cell wall by
detergent action. Of course, the same action emulsifies the mineral oil, so
you can't be really clean unless the "finish" is gone.

As to your mix, you've rediscovered cold cream, plus or minus a few odorants
and alcohols.


  #3   Report Post  
Arch
 
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Default

Maybe the finish on a salad bowl matters while selling it, but most
salads will be dressed with everything from anchovy to blue cheese plus
a garlic rub and (_extra virgin) olive oil. Salad bowls that are used
will end up with a 'salad dressing finish' regardless.

Sprinkling salt into the soiled bowl and rubbing out with kitchen paper,
the way pre-teflon chef's skillets were cleaned, is one way to clean and
avoid a gummy, rancid oil finish. Hand washing with soapy water,
another. Rinse well & dry right away.

If only greens or fruit are put in the bowl, no finish is needed. A
salad bowl ought to smell like salad anyway, otherwise let them settle
for ceramic and you turn bottle stoppers . You might make a positive
point by suggesting that you leave the bowl unfinished (well maybe a
little mineral oil & wax for looks) so the buyer can customise with a
favorite dressing.

You might want to have bottles of various dressings, salt and kitchen
paper for them to finish and season their treasures on site when
purchased. Maybe not, but at least, you would draw a crowd of sniffers!

Sorry, I got carried away. I do love to build and consume a good salad.
I'll discuss the unfortunate *******izations of a proper martini another
time. Thanks for not bringing up the question of food safe finishes


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

  #4   Report Post  
 
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Default

How about everclear or highest octane potable alcohol available to
clean the wood down to bare and then re-oiling? I like walnut oil
personally...

  #5   Report Post  
George
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
ups.com...
How about everclear or highest octane potable alcohol available to
clean the wood down to bare and then re-oiling? I like walnut oil
personally...


Alcohol, a polar solvent, doesn't work too well against oil, a non-polar
compound.

Now as a cough medicine, Everclear's pretty good with tea, honey and
lemon....




  #7   Report Post  
robo hippy
 
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Default

I do have a personal sized ash bowl that I take to all of the shows I
do. It is 5 years old. I use it to show how a bowl can age, for product
testing, and because when I take it to a food booth and ask for a fill
up, they seem to give me larger portions. I've had ice cream, stirfry,
bar-b-que, pasta, pizza, Mexican, tofu, fries, cakes, cajun, and
anything else I can fit in it. It started out snow white, and now is a
beautiful amber. All I have done thus far for maintenance is to wash in
out with water, and dry it. No soap thus far. I haven't noticed any oil
build up. The outside of the bowl is a little dry, but the inside is
fine. Cheese cake leaves the most beautiful sheen on the bowl when I'm
done.
robo hippy















Arch wrote:
Maybe the finish on a salad bowl matters while selling it, but most
salads will be dressed with everything from anchovy to blue cheese

plus
a garlic rub and (_extra virgin) olive oil. Salad bowls that are used
will end up with a 'salad dressing finish' regardless.

Sprinkling salt into the soiled bowl and rubbing out with kitchen

paper,
the way pre-teflon chef's skillets were cleaned, is one way to clean

and
avoid a gummy, rancid oil finish. Hand washing with soapy water,
another. Rinse well & dry right away.

If only greens or fruit are put in the bowl, no finish is needed. A
salad bowl ought to smell like salad anyway, otherwise let them

settle
for ceramic and you turn bottle stoppers . You might make a

positive
point by suggesting that you leave the bowl unfinished (well maybe a
little mineral oil & wax for looks) so the buyer can customise with a
favorite dressing.

You might want to have bottles of various dressings, salt and kitchen
paper for them to finish and season their treasures on site when
purchased. Maybe not, but at least, you would draw a crowd of

sniffers!

Sorry, I got carried away. I do love to build and consume a good

salad.
I'll discuss the unfortunate *******izations of a proper martini

another
time. Thanks for not bringing up the question of food safe finishes




Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings


  #8   Report Post  
Ray Sandusky
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If you are concerned with the wood absorbing the contents of a salad, the
oils or other potentially foul smelling stuff, then why not make the wood
impervious to having stuff penetrate into the wood? I use Waterlox - about
4 coats and the bowl is protected, beautiful and easily washed clean!

Just flood on 1 coat, wipe off excess - let stand for about 15 minutes, then
wipe another liberal coat intot he wood. Come back the next day, lightly
sand at 400 grit by hand and apply another coat let stand for about 2 days.
Then hit it again with steel wool then another coat using a paper towel to
push the Waterlox into the pores and cover the surface with a thin layer and
Tada! A beautifully finished and will protected wooden bowl!

Ray Sandusky
Brentwood, TN

www.artisticwoods.com





"robo hippy" wrote in message
oups.com...




It seems like every book I have read says "don't use olive oil for a
finish on your salad bowls because it can/will go rancid" Well I do a
lot of shows and run into people who want to know how to get the
sticky, stinky, gummy feeling stuff off their bowls. As near as I can
tell the best answer is to burn it in the wood stove. I run into the
same number of people who have had the same bowl for 20 years and all
they ever put on it was olive oil, and don't get the buildup or smell.
I don't understand. I was at a show in Seattle and talking to Loyd
General, a bowl turner from Redding, CA. and all he puts on his bowls
is olive oil. He hasn't had any rancid problems. His theory is that the
grade of olive oil can make all the difference, with the lower grades
being much more pungent. Also he said that mixing of different
vegetable oils can cause problems. I have also had cooks tell me that
walnut oil can go rancid. It is a bit confusing. For now I tell my
customers to wipe it out well after use and not to let it sit until the
next day. I don't need any help in being somewhat confused, but would
like to hear from others. Currently I use a blend of walnut and mineral
oils, and then hand apply beeswax, which is then hand rubbed in while
on the lathe. I have noticed that this makes a nice hand lotion for my
hands after sanding the bowls.
robo hippy



  #9   Report Post  
robo hippy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have never used Waterlox, or any other type of surface finish like
spray lacquers. It seems like most of them will crack, chip and peel
off eventually. Then to repair, you have to strip and refinish. I do
use Deftoil, with urethane resins for some of my 'art' pieces which is
the same finish I use on my furniture pieces. Easier to repair. I have
heard that it is ok for utility pieces, but the public seems to prefer
the walnut and mineral oil finishes.
robo hippy



















Ray Sandusky wrote:
If you are concerned with the wood absorbing the contents of a salad,

the
oils or other potentially foul smelling stuff, then why not make the

wood
impervious to having stuff penetrate into the wood? I use Waterlox -

about
4 coats and the bowl is protected, beautiful and easily washed clean!

Just flood on 1 coat, wipe off excess - let stand for about 15

minutes, then
wipe another liberal coat intot he wood. Come back the next day,

lightly
sand at 400 grit by hand and apply another coat let stand for about 2

days.
Then hit it again with steel wool then another coat using a paper

towel to
push the Waterlox into the pores and cover the surface with a thin

layer and
Tada! A beautifully finished and will protected wooden bowl!

Ray Sandusky
Brentwood, TN

www.artisticwoods.com





"robo hippy" wrote in message
oups.com...




It seems like every book I have read says "don't use olive oil for

a
finish on your salad bowls because it can/will go rancid" Well I do

a
lot of shows and run into people who want to know how to get the
sticky, stinky, gummy feeling stuff off their bowls. As near as I

can
tell the best answer is to burn it in the wood stove. I run into

the
same number of people who have had the same bowl for 20 years and

all
they ever put on it was olive oil, and don't get the buildup or

smell.
I don't understand. I was at a show in Seattle and talking to Loyd
General, a bowl turner from Redding, CA. and all he puts on his

bowls
is olive oil. He hasn't had any rancid problems. His theory is that

the
grade of olive oil can make all the difference, with the lower

grades
being much more pungent. Also he said that mixing of different
vegetable oils can cause problems. I have also had cooks tell me

that
walnut oil can go rancid. It is a bit confusing. For now I tell my
customers to wipe it out well after use and not to let it sit until

the
next day. I don't need any help in being somewhat confused, but

would
like to hear from others. Currently I use a blend of walnut and

mineral
oils, and then hand apply beeswax, which is then hand rubbed in

while
on the lathe. I have noticed that this makes a nice hand lotion for

my
hands after sanding the bowls.
robo hippy


  #10   Report Post  
Me myself and I
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Waterlox is not a surface finish. It's a penetrating oil finish. It
won't crack, chip, or peel.

me



robo hippy wrote:
I have never used Waterlox, or any other type of surface finish like
spray lacquers. It seems like most of them will crack, chip and peel
off eventually. Then to repair, you have to strip and refinish. I do
use Deftoil, with urethane resins for some of my 'art' pieces which is
the same finish I use on my furniture pieces. Easier to repair. I have
heard that it is ok for utility pieces, but the public seems to prefer
the walnut and mineral oil finishes.
robo hippy



















Ray Sandusky wrote:

If you are concerned with the wood absorbing the contents of a salad,


the

oils or other potentially foul smelling stuff, then why not make the


wood

impervious to having stuff penetrate into the wood? I use Waterlox -


about

4 coats and the bowl is protected, beautiful and easily washed clean!

Just flood on 1 coat, wipe off excess - let stand for about 15


minutes, then

wipe another liberal coat intot he wood. Come back the next day,


lightly

sand at 400 grit by hand and apply another coat let stand for about 2


days.

Then hit it again with steel wool then another coat using a paper


towel to

push the Waterlox into the pores and cover the surface with a thin


layer and

Tada! A beautifully finished and will protected wooden bowl!

Ray Sandusky
Brentwood, TN

www.artisticwoods.com





"robo hippy" wrote in message
groups.com...




It seems like every book I have read says "don't use olive oil for


a

finish on your salad bowls because it can/will go rancid" Well I do


a

lot of shows and run into people who want to know how to get the
sticky, stinky, gummy feeling stuff off their bowls. As near as I


can

tell the best answer is to burn it in the wood stove. I run into


the

same number of people who have had the same bowl for 20 years and


all

they ever put on it was olive oil, and don't get the buildup or


smell.

I don't understand. I was at a show in Seattle and talking to Loyd
General, a bowl turner from Redding, CA. and all he puts on his


bowls

is olive oil. He hasn't had any rancid problems. His theory is that


the

grade of olive oil can make all the difference, with the lower


grades

being much more pungent. Also he said that mixing of different
vegetable oils can cause problems. I have also had cooks tell me


that

walnut oil can go rancid. It is a bit confusing. For now I tell my
customers to wipe it out well after use and not to let it sit until


the

next day. I don't need any help in being somewhat confused, but


would

like to hear from others. Currently I use a blend of walnut and


mineral

oils, and then hand apply beeswax, which is then hand rubbed in


while

on the lathe. I have noticed that this makes a nice hand lotion for


my

hands after sanding the bowls.
robo hippy






  #11   Report Post  
George
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"robo hippy" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have never used Waterlox, or any other type of surface finish like
spray lacquers. It seems like most of them will crack, chip and peel
off eventually. Then to repair, you have to strip and refinish. I do
use Deftoil, with urethane resins for some of my 'art' pieces which is
the same finish I use on my furniture pieces. Easier to repair. I have
heard that it is ok for utility pieces, but the public seems to prefer
the walnut and mineral oil finishes.
robo hippy


You can sort of fool folks if you use a couple coats of thinned varnish -
Waterlox being one. I use thinned Minwax polyurethane, two coats, which
gives pretty good rejection, and dull any areas of the surface where I might
have dense enough grain to get some surface sheen. Would not recommend it
for popcorn bowls, though, as you can still get some blistering effect from
the Old Maids.

If you're in California, where more substances are know to cause cancer, you
might get queasy about the aromatic hydrocarbons, and if a heavy metal
phobic, there's cobalt siccatives....


  #12   Report Post  
robo hippy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Waterlox sounds interesting, I'll have to try it.
robo hippy















George wrote:
"robo hippy" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have never used Waterlox, or any other type of surface finish

like
spray lacquers. It seems like most of them will crack, chip and

peel
off eventually. Then to repair, you have to strip and refinish. I

do
use Deftoil, with urethane resins for some of my 'art' pieces which

is
the same finish I use on my furniture pieces. Easier to repair. I

have
heard that it is ok for utility pieces, but the public seems to

prefer
the walnut and mineral oil finishes.
robo hippy


You can sort of fool folks if you use a couple coats of thinned

varnish -
Waterlox being one. I use thinned Minwax polyurethane, two coats,

which
gives pretty good rejection, and dull any areas of the surface where

I might
have dense enough grain to get some surface sheen. Would not

recommend it
for popcorn bowls, though, as you can still get some blistering

effect from
the Old Maids.

If you're in California, where more substances are know to cause

cancer, you
might get queasy about the aromatic hydrocarbons, and if a heavy

metal
phobic, there's cobalt siccatives....


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