A preachy pompous musing, condescending, but mine own.
 

For an art form to flourish, as with the legs of a three legged stool,
the triad of craftsman-artist, collector-supporter and gallery-museum
are each important and necessary. Within the triad, artists and
collectors have mostly enjoyed immunity to personality traits and
eccentricities that artisans and businessmen have not. This dichotomy
has worked for flat art and probably is best for wood art. Of course,
not every incivility can be excused.

A current thread on rcw perturbs the triad because of a brouhaha about a
website.
This has nothing to do with the valuable support (which I acknowledge
with much appreciation) of wood art by a collector. I had thought better
of him and his take is disappointing, but certainly not unique in the
history of art....or of this ng.

I won't pontificate on the common situation of 'presumed carry over
knowledge'. Should the doctor away from the hospital, the judge off the
bench, the priest down from the pulpit and the masters at Winchester be
immunized from the mistaken belief that they are all knowing about all
things? We need their expertise in their fields, and it is often best
to forgive or at least overlook their sins of commission and just be
glad in them. I think it's about the same with each leg of the wood art
triad.

I said this would be a pompous musing.
It's too late, I've hit the send button. ;)


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Arch" wrote: (clip) A current thread on rcw perturbs the triad because of
a brouhaha about a website.(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Arch, am I alone here? Since I don't follow every thread religiously, I
don't know what you are talking about.

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Arch" wrote: (clip) A current thread on rcw perturbs the triad because of
a brouhaha about a website.(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Arch, am I alone here? Since I don't follow every thread religiously, I
don't know what you are talking about.

Sorry, but I may be alone in that I am struggling here.
Your point(s) would be?

Carpe jugulum

Jonathon

Jonathan, Thanks for your response. You are not alone in your struggles.
Many here suffer me not too gladly, but most always fraternally. I make
no point(s), just gentle musings. All Best, A.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Jonathan, Thanks for your response. You are not alone in your struggles.
Many here suffer me not too gladly, but most always fraternally. I make
no point(s), just gentle musings. All Best, A.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Arch's point is that we as artists appreciate your position as collector.
For the artist to survive we need both the businessman and the collector.
Let's let bygones be bygones and get on with the business of turning.

Arch threw in the towell so to speek. We are here for turning and website
design is another news group.

Thank you Arch.

"Arch" wrote in message
...
For an art form to flourish, as with the legs of a three legged stool,
the triad of craftsman-artist, collector-supporter and gallery-museum
are each important and necessary. Within the triad, artists and
collectors have mostly enjoyed immunity to personality traits and
eccentricities that artisans and businessmen have not. This dichotomy
has worked for flat art and probably is best for wood art. Of course,
not every incivility can be excused.

A current thread on rcw perturbs the triad because of a brouhaha about a
website.
This has nothing to do with the valuable support (which I acknowledge
with much appreciation) of wood art by a collector. I had thought better
of him and his take is disappointing, but certainly not unique in the
history of art....or of this ng.

I won't pontificate on the common situation of 'presumed carry over
knowledge'. Should the doctor away from the hospital, the judge off the
bench, the priest down from the pulpit and the masters at Winchester be
immunized from the mistaken belief that they are all knowing about all
things? We need their expertise in their fields, and it is often best
to forgive or at least overlook their sins of commission and just be
glad in them. I think it's about the same with each leg of the wood art
triad.

I said this would be a pompous musing.
It's too late, I've hit the send button. ;)


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Leo L. wrote, "Since I don't follow every thread religiously, I don't
know what you are talking about."
***********************************************Leo , for _heaven's sake
keep religion out of this mess. It's not necessary for you to know what
I'm talking about. I sure don't! Best regards, A.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

With apologies for repeating the email Henry, some of it bears
repitition - and it is NOT directed at most of the considered people
who engage their brains before posting.

"Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I have exchanged messages with Arch in the past - yes I have been
around this group for 2-3 years but left on account of the way in which
it had dramatically deteriorated as had others I know.

I see in the postings so far (across both ngs) - evidence of people who
in their scribblings seek to intimidate others with the message almost
getting lost. Whilst not wanting to take the world on, one thing a
bully does not like is someone prepared to stand and trade. I will
give as good as or better than I get and am not prepared to take some
of the ill considered and lame posts in evidence thus far.

And yes - I am giving serious consideration to restricting site access.
I see no reason why my time and effort should be enjoyed by this
minority - irrespective of their turning skills (real of professed).

So unfinished business at this end - and certainly an attitude coming
from a clear direction that gives me food for thought.

But let's grandstand this for a moment.

As ambassadors for your country and your craft, in what is let's agree
a very small goldfish bowl - whoa stop there, not a pretty picture..

Irrespective of the US shows I visit, my wallet will almost certainly
point elsewhere in future - which I am sure, to quote an earlier
poster, will cause you to lose no sleep at night whatsoever. However
it will be an interesting discussion to relay and chew over with MY
contacts both here and abroad - as I am sure you will do yourselves.

However - here is something to mull on. A person receiving good
service rarely tells anyone. Someone on the end of poor service - will
tell everyone he can find who will listen. Go figure.
Seasons greetings and thanks again for emailing"


Jonathon

Jonathon wrote:
Irrespective of the US shows I visit, my wallet will almost certainly
point elsewhere in future - which I am sure, to quote an earlier
poster, will cause you to lose no sleep at night whatsoever.

I do not understand this at all. You are judging the merits of 300
million americans based on the actions of a few which are on-line and
somewhat aggressive? How on earth does this become an UK vrs. US thing?
What does nationality have to do with it with the merits of individuals?

Frankly, I lose sleep at night because so much of the world appears so
willing to judge individuals based on some judgment of their
nationality, race, religion or other group attribute. This is quite sad.

For the record, I am not American, do not reside in America and have no
stake in it at a personal level other then being disturbed that a clash
of opinions and personalities should be spun into a nationalism issue.

PK

And this is also your first post.
Take a look at the other ng - perhaps my comments will make more sense.
Oh and this is not a US vs UK or indeed anywhere thing - more of a
broad brush comment on the way in which the vocal, and sometimes
inarticulate minority of posters on here sound.

Jonathon

Jonathon wrote:
And this is also your first post.

Huh? Hardly. Or do you mean on this topic? My email periodically
changes, but the name has always been the same.

Take a look at the other ng - perhaps my comments will make more sense.
Oh and this is not a US vs UK or indeed anywhere thing - more of a
broad brush comment on the way in which the vocal, and sometimes
inarticulate minority of posters on here sound.

Then what does their nationality have to do with it? And why will you
not be buying US turners work? What did the individuals do to you? I
have read (and read) both NGs. There have been some blunt, but IMO
correct responses, there have been some rude ones, there have been some
very helpful nice ones. All in all, a pretty good score for usenet.

Yet, I still fail what nationality (which you bring into it) has to do
with anything. Posters here do not represent their countries; even
statistically speaking, they are a very narrow cross section of society.
And their country of origin does not determine their attitude.

PK

Apologies - yes your first on this topic.

Nationality on its own - has no bearing.

However it is interesting to note where the less than positive
commentary has been sourced - given that my reading of the information
is correct.

If you want a really really good example of the vicious drivel you can
post on this and the way people just let it slide - take a look at a
recent contribution I made to a new thread where a new turner /
designer posted his efforts of which he was rightly proud and then got
shot down. Polite words forbid me writing here my true opinion of the
individual concerned - must see if he has a site!

I have not yet read a posting from anyone on here who knows me and
there are no reasons for you or the ng readers to know this (unless you
have visited the FAQs on the site) but we never buy blind.

We only buy from a turner we have met and formed an opinion on. If we
dont get on with them - then we shake hands and leave irrespective of
what they are turning and how nice it is. And similarly they are free
to do likewise.

Like it or not, the bottom line is that a number of posters to this
group leave me with a really bad taste in my mouth - and probably
wrongly I associate that attitude with their domicile - my connection
to make should I chose to do so.

Again wrong - perhaps - but my also my error to make should I elect to
do so.

Jonathon wrote:

However it is interesting to note where the less than positive
commentary has been sourced - given that my reading of the information
is correct.

It is less interesting if you actually step back and examine it.
Americans are -- by far -- the largest group posting. They have the most
assholes and the most nice guys in terms of sheer numbers. It would be
much more difficult and intersting to examine it in terms of
percentages, though normalizing it would be very difficult.

If you want a really really good example of the vicious drivel you can
post on this and the way people just let it slide - take a look at a
recent contribution I made to a new thread where a new turner /
designer posted his efforts of which he was rightly proud and then got
shot down. Polite words forbid me writing here my true opinion of the
individual concerned - must see if he has a site!


I have not yet read a posting from anyone on here who knows me and
there are no reasons for you or the ng readers to know this (unless you
have visited the FAQs on the site) but we never buy blind.

I would have actually assumed your described procedure to be the case.
Serious purchases of art are very often done this way. Business is quite
personal.

Like it or not, the bottom line is that a number of posters to this
group leave me with a really bad taste in my mouth - and probably
wrongly I associate that attitude with their domicile - my connection
to make should I chose to do so.

You do yourself a disservice if you do this. Look at yourself closely,
examine which groups you belong to. Look at your gender, race, religion,
nationality, sexual orientation, hell, hair color. In every case, you
will find an abundance of example of horrid people in your group,
sometimes even declaring that they do what they do for the good of the
group. Do you wish to be judged according to the groups you belong to?
Even art collectors (no offense intended) have funded rebels, payed
criminals and acted like idiots in their pursuits.


Again wrong - perhaps - but my also my error to make should I elect to
do so.

Judging them by their domicile, if you are serious, makes you a bigot by
definition. Rise above it, judge them on their own merits.

PK

PS: To be fair, you must also make a little allowance for culture. As a
canadian, with a reputation for the "polite nation", we often find
americans rude at first contact. In reality, it is just a culture gap;
their interaction mechanisms are somewhat different then ours. Turns out
the country is full of wonderful people, assholes, war mongers, peace
lovers, gays, straights, woman, men, people of all colors, religions and
dispostions. Just like the rest of us.

Paul

Thanks for you response - some interesting comments. I disagree with
your less interesting comment - and feel you are making apologies and
excuses for them. As the largest group of posters, they should lead by
example - wow is that a tall order and not one thing I'd lay bets on.

Yes a broad brush - but one I am entitled to make. Yes, they are
indeed hamstrung in many cases by their own culture - or perhaps more
accurately, the way in which it comes across to others.

Checking the groups I belong to - I have no issue in being judged in
that manner.

In article .com,
"Jonathon" wrote:

Irrespective of the US shows I visit, my wallet will almost certainly
point elsewhere in future...

Well, that would be your loss Jonathon. I certainly wouldn't turn a
blind eye toward any of the fine UK turners should I find myself in the
market for a turning, in spite of the opinion I have formed of you due
to the recent threads. I don't see you representing or reflecting on
anyone but yourself (and perhaps your parents). Likewise with the
faceless, and largely anonymous, others posting here on the group.

--
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long

Owen - now why would you chose to personalise this and mention parents?

That really plumbs depths - but apparently something that sits
comfortably with you which in itself raises questions. Rather sad.
Paul if you are reading this - QED?

Ah brave words - and this from an anonymous email poster.

Plonked?

Bill - double or halve your meds, the current dosage is clearly giving
you problms dealing with reality - either that of you like to spoil
when online.

I have contacts in the US with whom some of the sentiments arising from
this thread will be discussed I am absolutely sure as well as in the
UK.

If you perceive that as constituting a "thinly veiled threat" you are
clearly an ideal candidate for "Homeland security".

However here is a challenge I put to you. Have the courage of your
convictions, in other words be a little bigger than an online presence,
tell me your real identity either on or off-list rather than seeking to
hide behind your posting name, and I would be delighted to include you
and your output (??) in these discussions.