Bill

Thank you for what is probably the most balanced, readable and well
considered post amongst some of the rants above.

Taking your points in turn.

Yes the scrolling is counter-intuitive - and something I will fix. But
if people do not have sufficient initiative to work out how to use it -
then perhaps they would do better looking elsewhere. I dont write for
muppets - this is not a commercial site and I dont work on the lowest
common denominator, from what I have read so far, would lead this to be
demeaning!

I am genuinely surprised at the load times you mention - none of the
pop-up images exceed 30k (I think) whilst some of the pages might go to
this. I think in the circumstances that it may well be a server issue.
I have a 2MB line which regularly clocks 1.4mb speeds - and certainly
get nowhere near the lag you are reporting.

The close on click is a common dreamweaver extension and one which you
(or I certainly) see commonly on sites elsewhere on the web.

You comment re copyright highlights differences in approaches and
probably national legal systems. Personally I subscribe to the right
of control of what is, I think, intellectual work so perhaps the
solution is to stick a clumsy and obtrusive copyright symbol in a
repeated pattern all over them.

Then again perhaps another solution is

a) restrictive access
b) country barring
c) host on my pc - that would allow much more site access flexibility
d) take the site down - and carry on collecting from UK turners, albeit
"spreading the word" with personal visits to the collection in our home
from interested parties.

On a more serious note - if you tell me which picures you particularly
like I will very pleased by way of thank you to send over a higher res
file(s) for your personal use. This should mean that you get a better
quality print and a desktop image that better shows the piece off. All
this without the piece dimension cluttering the image as well. Not to
mention the ability to crop, clean, tweak to your hearts content. And
no, I wont be doing anything malicious - just a genuine offer by way of
thanking you for your words - probably the most reasoned here.
Contact me through the site and I will be pleased to oblige.

Jonathon

LB you wouldn't know one if you stumbled over him/her!

"By George" - is that some xenophobic attempt at humour? If so - dont
give up the day job.

"Injured ego", "petty school yard challenge", "must not be your career
if that's your attitude" - wow you really are most impressive. I dont
think the tone of most of your presumptive analysis of my personal and
professional situation merits a response - you can shoot yourself quite
well in the foot without any further help.
Jakob Nielsen - ring a bell or just a thud?

Barry

The site has been this way for a while now - and to change the scroll
bars would likely throw those are already used to it - cumbersome, I
would disagree, counter-intuitive yes that is fair.

Jonathon

PS Derek's comment (see below) is constructive. Others are not but
seem to reflect USENET manners - and people seem to be surprised to get
a reply in like vein. Now why, I wonder, would this be? And why would
they not expect likely phrased replies?

At the risk of again incurring the wrath of Johathon...

I've just invented a new automobile. When you turn the wheel to the left, the car turns
right. When you turn the wheel to the right, the car turns left.

When you step on the pedal on the left with your right foot, the car accelerates. The pedal
on the right makes it stop.

The turn signal is also a little unusual. When you push it away from you it starts the right
blinker and toward you the left blinker.

Etc....

Clearly, everything you need to drive a car works. But, would you buy it?

While the above is extreme, some may remember cars with the starter button under the gas
pedal. Others had a switch on the dash which you either pushed or pulled. Today I can't
think of any exceptions -- you turn the key. The industry has learned that sameness is a
virtue and renting a car is not quite the adventure it used to be.

Windows is, for many of us who are in or have been in software development, a pile of ill-
considered, poorly implemented trash. But, the one good thing about windows is that there
have been a number of standards designed and almost forced on programmers so that all
applications have a very similar look and feel. The menus, mouse movements and clicks all do
pretty much the same thing from application to application. When one wants to print just
about anything on a windows machine, regardless of who wrote the application, the method is
the same. To copy or paste text, the method is the same. The sameness is not a negative --
it is good and makes running a well designed, windows application intuitive. One doesn't
need to relearn all kinds of things when using an unfamiliar application.

I hope, though, that the above will not be considered to be a criticism of Jonathon's site --
just a commentary on the world in general and how people prefer familiar things.

Bill

In article .com,
says...
Barry

The site has been this way for a while now - and to change the scroll
bars would likely throw those are already used to it - cumbersome, I
would disagree, counter-intuitive yes that is fair.

Jonathon

PS Derek's comment (see below) is constructive. Others are not but
seem to reflect USENET manners - and people seem to be surprised to get
a reply in like vein. Now why, I wonder, would this be? And why would
they not expect likely phrased replies?

Bill

Had any experience in a boat? Especially one with a tiller rather than
a steering wheel? Push it to the right (starboard) and whad'ya know,
the boat turns to the left.

And Mac vs. Windows.

Perhaps clones are good things - then again, some people value
differences.

No criticism taken - or indeed intended by the above, just another
angle on your points.


Jonathon

Lobby asked,,,,,
By George, he really is a troll!!

Al K, is it you?


No. I've been unable to get a reaction this big since I went to
Batswannna. Jonathon may be a skilled troll but me and Bill Rubenstein
are still going to take him out if he ever dares to show his face
stateside. He's a big man behind that keyboard but he's no match for my
Napping Panda style. I've studied with Bok Choy masters the world over
and Ive dealt with his type before. One minute in the ring with me and
he will regret ever having disparaged the name of this great nation.
God Bless,
Al Kyder

Hmm.
Memo to self - take fly spray to deal with annoying insects when in the
US next (although that may be overkill).
Ok that takes care of your little strike force - and I wont even start
on "this great nation".

"Jonathon" wrote:

LB you wouldn't know one if you stumbled over him/her!

"By George" - is that some xenophobic attempt at humour? If so - dont
give up the day job.



I rest my case.

"Jonathon" wrote:

LB you wouldn't know one if you stumbled over him/her!

"By George" - is that some xenophobic attempt at humour? If so - dont
give up the day job.



I rest my case.

Jonathon wrote:
Bill & Alun

Thanks for the comments - as you both seem to find the site irritating
and annoying I have a radical solution which can be immediately
implemented - tailored to the individual too.

Dont visit again - clearly it is not suited to you.

There - a customised response to an expressed problem. Thanks for
taking the time and a Happy New Year to you.

Y'know, this is what I hate sometimes. If I had just gone to the website
without reading this thread, I would have marvelled at the incredible
beauty of the turning and admired the look of the website. But, I would
have had to switch browsers and possibly computers as it works very
poorly on Safari an a Mac (my primary browsing machine). I would have
been irritated at the interface mechanics but might have tolerated it.

And I did look at some of it. But I had this sour taste in my mouth
because you, sir, are an asshole. I might normally find some forgiveness
because hey, you are proud of your work and some of the replies have
been blunt and not terribly well-put, but your consistenly nasty replies
are a shame that the great work shown is in any way associated with you.

You have a flair for giving a great look to a website, but you
*seriously* need to tame your ego and learn to look at what people are
saying. They are right, even if it was not well put.

PK

Jonathon wrote:
Bill & Alun

Thanks for the comments - as you both seem to find the site irritating
and annoying I have a radical solution which can be immediately
implemented - tailored to the individual too.

Dont visit again - clearly it is not suited to you.

There - a customised response to an expressed problem. Thanks for
taking the time and a Happy New Year to you.

Y'know, this is what I hate sometimes. If I had just gone to the website
without reading this thread, I would have marvelled at the incredible
beauty of the turning and admired the look of the website. But, I would
have had to switch browsers and possibly computers as it works very
poorly on Safari an a Mac (my primary browsing machine). I would have
been irritated at the interface mechanics but might have tolerated it.

And I did look at some of it. But I had this sour taste in my mouth
because you, sir, are an asshole. I might normally find some forgiveness
because hey, you are proud of your work and some of the replies have
been blunt and not terribly well-put, but your consistenly nasty replies
are a shame that the great work shown is in any way associated with you.

You have a flair for giving a great look to a website, but you
*seriously* need to tame your ego and learn to look at what people are
saying. They are right, even if it was not well put.

PK

Hmm lots of responses come to mind - but how can I match the rapier
incisiveness and breathtaking articulation of your argument?
Speechless!

And your considered opinion to the above Jgklr2732 would be?
"No offense - but if taken then so be it"


Jonathon

"Jonathon" wrote:

Hmm lots of responses come to mind - but how can I match the rapier
incisiveness and breathtaking articulation of your argument?
Speechless!



We can hope.

Yawn - that really the best you can do? Or perhaps a step up for you ?

"Jonathon" wrote:

Yawn - that really the best you can do? Or perhaps a step up for you ?



Hopes dashed.

Bill
After trying to get through a coupleof the people listed on your site,
I just gave up and went about my
business. I do not have time to try to decipher a website. That is too
bad
really, since I would like to see some of the work you own and are
displaying. Maybe I'm just a big dummy, but who cares? I don't. I am
sure
you don't.

Absolutely right.

I'm not some starving artist kissing up to pretentious collectors in
an attempt to make a
living. I make simple stuff for regular people to buy, and if they buy
it,
great. If they don't, there is always someone else.

Hmm interesting use of language. Kissing up to pretentious collectors
... noted with interest.

I don't know what your problem is.

That assumes you perceive one - the psychiatrist is in?

It seems like you have
a lot to offer, but it just might not be as important to the rest of
us as
you seem to think.

Oh I have fairly low expectations based on personal experience here and
elsewhere. Pleased to say they have not been exceeded. And as what I
have "to offer" is clearly not to your taste - feel free to exercise
your hard won freedom of choice.

As for famous? Einstein and Hawking are famous, turners are simply
people who put their trousers on one leg at a time - please!!!!

What does reply sent off-list mean


"Jonathon" wrote in message
oups.com...
Reply sent off-list

Hey Bill tell that story you e-mailed me about Shirley Cuff. I can't
repeat it being a man of God and all but it really had me tickled.
Nothing cleanses the soul like a really filthy joke about Jonathon's
wife. I thought I was going to split my side when you got to that part
about her knickers. Ewwwwwwww!!!!!!

God Bless,
Al Kyder

What are you talking about and what does this have to do with his website!

"Al Kyder" wrote in message
ups.com...
Are you associated with this filth Jonathon?

http://www.glamour-photo.co.uk/tfplist.html

I'm very dissapointed in you. I expected more from a gentleman such as
yourself. Bill is right. He said you were a depraved,effiminate limey
with bad teeth. I should have listened. I should never have posed for
those boudoir photos. I feel so dirty. If you ever dare to step foot on
US soil again Bill and I will teach you a lesson in manners and
morality you ******.

God Bless,
Al Kyder

Nothing to do with his website, everything to do with his character. I
suspect he's up to no good lureing young women to his studio when
Shirley's away at her prayer group. I shudder to think what goes on
there when no one is around. Filling thier impressionable heads with
stories of fame and glamour all the while setting his trap to ensnare
them for use in his filthy little game. He's a collector all right and
not just of turnings. It will all come out when his dealings with the
Utah Faction in thier bigamist conspiracy are finally made public.
God Bless,
Al Kyder

You're a christian?
"Al Kyder" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey Bill tell that story you e-mailed me about Shirley Cuff. I can't
repeat it being a man of God and all but it really had me tickled.
Nothing cleanses the soul like a really filthy joke about Jonathon's
wife. I thought I was going to split my side when you got to that part
about her knickers. Ewwwwwwww!!!!!!

God Bless,
Al Kyder

I've just a read a couple of your posts and was wondering about your
character...

So you're saying he's a Morman...
"Al Kyder" wrote in message
oups.com...
Nothing to do with his website, everything to do with his character. I
suspect he's up to no good lureing young women to his studio when
Shirley's away at her prayer group. I shudder to think what goes on
there when no one is around. Filling thier impressionable heads with
stories of fame and glamour all the while setting his trap to ensnare
them for use in his filthy little game. He's a collector all right and
not just of turnings. It will all come out when his dealings with the
Utah Faction in thier bigamist conspiracy are finally made public.
God Bless,
Al Kyder

On 1 Jan 2005 05:59:11 -0800, "Jonathon"
wrote:

Bill & Alun

Thanks for the comments - as you both seem to find the site irritating
and annoying I have a radical solution which can be immediately
implemented - tailored to the individual too.

Dont visit again - clearly it is not suited to you.

There - a customised response to an expressed problem. Thanks for
taking the time and a Happy New Year to you.

Jonathon

so much for "Feedback - so long as it is constructive - welcomed. Any
suggestions as to site enhancement also welcomed."

None said that it sucks... (IMO as a web consultant, it dies)
They said they found it uncomfortable and preferred scroll bars..

If you don't consider that constructive, you really need to keep your
site private and not invite opinions, as you might actually get one..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On 1 Jan 2005 07:18:42 -0800, "Jonathon"
wrote:

Todd

Dont recall actually using the language "bugger off" but clearly this
sits more comfortably with you which tells me more than I need to know
- thanks for this clarification. Perhaps the answer is password access
- or country restrictions.
To all the "scores" of people you allude to - visit or dont, but dont
be swayed by others' opinions, make you own mind up.
To those of you who do visit - most of whom are known names in this
area of art - I say "Happy New Year" and hope that, knowing me, you
read this string with wry amusement.
Interesting how quickly something deteriorates into such an
unconstructive thread - one of the reasons I rarely bother posting to
groups. Perhaps the world of wood turning is so flush with collectors
that you feel comfortable in your language - after all what is one less
person who would otherwise seek your work out.

Jonathon..
Happy New Year...
Please don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On 1 Jan 2005 07:33:23 -0800, "Jonathon"
wrote:

Mike

"Yahoo", "plonk" - what planet are you on? Or are you just
Lilliputian?
Spamming? This would imply an offer to buy? Check facts first
perhaps?
Hmm ad-revenue. Wonder where that little gem came from! Ad-revenue
from a privately owned, run site - please tell me how to generate some
and perhaps I can stop running this at a loss.
UK collector, one of only 2-3 serious collections this side of the pond
- sharing collection with those interested and perhaps wasting my time.

We are well known by The Woodturning Centre and Albert LeCoff (you do
know where this is dont you), many US galleries, the AWGB (same
applies) and many other turners whose names WILL be known.
All in all a highly entertaining and instructive thread.

And twit - hmm books and covers Mr Patterson.
Another turner not to bother with when we visit the US.

wow.. can you say "uptight"?
You really give the UK a bad name... go take your meds and chill..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On 2 Jan 2005 16:41:51 -0800, "Jonathon"
wrote:

Yawn - that really the best you can do? Or perhaps a step up for you ?

PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLL



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On 1 Jan 2005 15:37:43 -0800, "Jonathon"
wrote:

I repeat the invite - which you have seem to have chosen to ignore.
Prove yourself to be anything other than an armchair critic and show
you can do more than just quote a few phrases (there are quite a few
books here in my library btw including one from which the layer coding
troll drivel snipped

PLEASE DON"T FEED THE TROLL



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 00:59:59 -0700, "Steve Wolfe"
wrote:


I repeat the invite - which you have seem to have chosen to ignore.

I don't care to get into "double-dog-dare" contests with you. Sorry.
You asked for the feedback, you got it, end of story. If you can't take it,
go cry to someone who cares.

Prove yourself to be anything other than an armchair critic and show
you can do more than just quote a few phrases (there are quite a few
books here in my library btw including one from which the layer coding
is derived - and that by a Dreamweaver alpha tester - go figure -
Dreamweaver 4 magic, New Ryders,Al Sparber - ISBN no available by
request!)

You don't seem to have have mentioned any books on usability. Maybe I
missed something, but the last time I looked, reading a book on layers or
Dreamweaver didn't comprise anything like a text on usability. There is an
entire industry around usability, be it web sites, coffee pots, or lawn
mowers, and so searching Amazon for the term "usability" will get you a
pretty good list.

You presume to assume about my career?! On the basis that you have
decided that this is what I do for a living - this is the platform for
your criticisms?

(snip)

However, feedback from "interested"
woodturners who are keen to view a collection on the web (and there are
few enough of those) tells me that they soldier on through all these
patent inadequacies.

I guess I must have been wrong, it must not be your career if that's your
attitude - or you'd be collecting unemployment. Anyone with even a passing
familiarity with real-world web sites has found that just because a portion
of very-interested persons keeps going to your site, it doesn't mean that a
lot of other people turn away. I could go into the six years of data that
I've got from over 50 *very* active web sites (thousands of hits per minute,
how many do you get a week?), and into how many hundreds of thousands of
dollars we have poured not only into analysis of the data, but into active
testing and research on how usability and other factors influence site
visits - but I really don't think you'd care. And even if I was inclined,
it still wouldn't matter: There's a vast wealth of resources on the subject
out there for you if you're interested. You can take them or leave them as
you please.

In the end, because I haven't taken your petty, school-yard challenge to
have something along the lines of a web-site duel, I imagine that your
injured ego will prevent you from even considering anything I've said -
let's even say that you "won" because I declined the challenge. That's fine
with me, I have no interest in hearing any more of your blather, and have
now kill-filed you. If I offended you, I apologize - but I still invite you
to expand your horizons for your own benefit.

steve

Steve.. your point is very valid, but I fear you're just encouraging
the troll...

As an old fart doing web pages, I got rid of dreamweaver, flash and
all that high techie **** years ago... no matter how pretty it is, if
you want people to look at your stuff and keep them away from the
"back" button, the content has to be quick loading, easy to read and
navigate around and hold attention with (hopefully) information that
they're seeking...




mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On 2 Jan 2005 01:45:05 -0800, "Jonathon"
wrote:

snip
You comment re copyright highlights differences in approaches and
probably national legal systems. Personally I subscribe to the right
of control of what is, I think, intellectual work so perhaps the
solution is to stick a clumsy and obtrusive copyright symbol in a
repeated pattern all over them.
snip

A fairly common method is to "water mark" the photos with your URL...
Most people in the US are used to this system and don't try to take
them out..
Another deterrent that you're already using is the use of low res
pictures... why waste time trying to remove a watermark from a low res
photo?
If you were willing to do the photo editing (a LOT of editing, for
your site) each photo could include a water mark of the URL and
artist's name, spreading both names internationally..




mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I seem to recall you were in here a year or more ago. I see things haven't
changed much with you - still your arrogant self. How's your photography
hobby coming... or should I say your attempt at baiting young girls into
taking off their cloths for you for free with lies about advancing their
modeling careers. Your appearance here has reminded me of what I thought
about doing then. Informing your local police that you might be a predator.
I think I'll have to revisit that idea. Arrogant prick!


"Jonathon" wrote in message
ups.com...
Just a post to advise anyone interested that we have updated our
website to include all those pieces purchased during 2004 which we had
not managed to catalogue during the year!

This includes work by the following ..


Stuart Mortimer (Pagan - tends to polarize opinion!)
Mark Baker
Marcel van Berkel
Paul Reeves (Exeter 1st prize winner)
Luc de Roo (Exeter 1st prize winner)
Rosemary Wright
Bryan Scott
Phil Irons
Charles Sharpe (RPT award winning piece)
Jacques Vesery - replacement to the Tony Boase tribute piece that was
stolen (yes really!) from David Woodward's gallery in Hay on Wye.
Ian Clarkson
Ray Key (classic Ray form - lovely Masur birch figuring)

In an effort to accommodate dial-up as well as broadband viewers, the
picture resolution has been kept to an absolute minimum - anyone
wanting a better quality image (for genuine purposes) should send me an
email and I will see if I can assist.

Feedback - so long as it is constructive - welcomed. Any suggestions
as to site enhancement also welcomed. However be warned - flaming will
be posted!

Happy New Year - look forward to seeing some of you during 2005.

Jonathon & Shirley

http://www.thedanielcollection.com
A private collectin of fine turned wood in the UK

An interesting suggestion - thanks and something I will seriously
consider.

I dont know where you have been or what you think you have read.
Not been on the newgroups for 2-3 years.
Please feel free to "inform the local police" - this a mighty
frightening threat from someone posting in such terms and hiding behind
your email ady.
With relatives in the job I will then be delighted to press for charges
to be brought for wasting police time.
Thomas Hamilton was a predator - you do know who I am talking about
without having to look him up dont you?
Pathetic posting from a non-descript individual hiding behind an
anonynous name.

Oh dont worry Mac, I would not want to leave this quickly and deprive
you of what would appear to be much needed sport.
Your turnings still have splinters in them?

It means that in view of the more considered post, I sent personal
reply to the poster.

A web consultant - care to provide some URLs?
Oh and your opinion - is just that and at the moment has about the same
value to me, in the absence of something a little more concrete, as $1
on the market. Little and going down fast but eminently capable of
revaluation.

Pathetic - but seems to reflect the quality of your postings Al - share
the joke.

On a more serious note, I would welcome suggestions from you as to how
it would be possible to filter visitors wanting access to the site. I
would rather not get out the large brush to deal with the vocal
minority and hope that they will take their own medicine - and not
revisit. An IP based system, if such were easily implementable, would
be much more surgical without collateral damage to the many other
visitors from the US would do enjoy the site - warts and all.
Oh and if you could point me at somewhere to find out how to "freeze"
the scroll bars, as a previous poster mentioned, this would also be
appreciated too.
Thanks in advance
Jonathon

USENET lets in anyone even if they are on medication.
I think what AK was saying is that he is a MORON. Close and an easy
mistake to make if those little tablets haven't kicked in yet.
Smile and walk backwards slowly away from him - its feeding time soon.