Turning Beads and Skew Chisels
 

I've now been turning for a number of years and happily churn out most of
the usual things with little problem - even to the point of having mastered
a little twistwork! However, there's one stumbling block which seems so
fundamental it's almost embarrassing to admit it!: Turning beads with a skew
chisel. I've just ruined yet another acorn-shaped finial because the skew,
once again, ran back up the bead resulting in one of those artistic spiral
dig-ins. I've tried using the toe end of the skew, the heel end, I've tried
using a 10mm beading tool, all to no avail. I've understood that if I try to
take too much timber off at once the cut gets blocked and the centrifugal
force applied by the wood becomes greater than the downward force of the
chisel - so I've tried taking off smaller amounts each cut. This results in
having to take more cuts per bead to get the shape right and therefore the
chances of a dig-in seem to rise alarmingly. I can do a few beads perfectly
OK and then the dig-in which has been lying in wait happens yet again. Does
anyone have any ideas what I might be doing wrong? Oh, the other thing is:
do you use the bead-rolling technique to round the end of a spindle - for
example when forming an acorn shape or is there some other less hazardous
way of doing it? I'd be grateful for any help with this one - it's becoming
a real pain.

Many thanks

Ron Headon
Swindon, England

I think what may be happening when makeing the bead with the skew is that
you are looseing the bevel. Not that I am an expert, but I have been
watching Alan Lacers "The skew chisle -- the dark side and the sweet side"
he recommends useing a dead center to drive your spindle. By moveing the
tail stock quill in and out you can apply more or less drive. You can go
from just enough so that you can grab the work piece till you can't. With
that you can experiment. With a little drive while turning your bead lift
the bevel and you will see the short point skate back. Since there is
little drive it is not violent and the piece may stop. This also works for
your spindle gouge. It lets you see what is happening when you turn. I
recomend this video if you have skew questions, it is a good referance.
Also if I am not mistaken Packard sells the dead center for about $24.00.
Good luck.

Bruce
"Ron Headon" wrote in message
...
I've now been turning for a number of years and happily churn out most of
the usual things with little problem - even to the point of having
mastered
a little twistwork! However, there's one stumbling block which seems so
fundamental it's almost embarrassing to admit it!: Turning beads with a
skew
chisel. I've just ruined yet another acorn-shaped finial because the skew,
once again, ran back up the bead resulting in one of those artistic spiral
dig-ins. I've tried using the toe end of the skew, the heel end, I've
tried
using a 10mm beading tool, all to no avail. I've understood that if I try
to
take too much timber off at once the cut gets blocked and the centrifugal
force applied by the wood becomes greater than the downward force of the
chisel - so I've tried taking off smaller amounts each cut. This results
in
having to take more cuts per bead to get the shape right and therefore the
chances of a dig-in seem to rise alarmingly. I can do a few beads
perfectly
OK and then the dig-in which has been lying in wait happens yet again.
Does
anyone have any ideas what I might be doing wrong? Oh, the other thing is:
do you use the bead-rolling technique to round the end of a spindle - for
example when forming an acorn shape or is there some other less hazardous
way of doing it? I'd be grateful for any help with this one - it's
becoming
a real pain.

Many thanks

Ron Headon
Swindon, England

Ron,

I'll echo what Bruce says. Get a copy of Alan Lacer's video on the skew
chisel. He not only shows you the right way to make each of the many cuts,
he also shows you where they can go wrong. I got my copy last week and am
still looking at it. The man can do anything with the skew except make it
sing! A very good investment.

Harry

I just don't see beating yourself up trying to do beads with a skew when it is usually
unnecessary. A 3/8 beading and parting tool is much friendlier and easier to use and
will turn 95% of the beads which you will need to turn.

Martin Pidgeon is as good a spindle turner as I've ever seen working and he uses the beading
and parting tool. He is fast, accurate and gets a very good finish. If it is good enough
for him it is good enough for me.

Bill

In article s.com,
says...
Ron,

I'll echo what Bruce says. Get a copy of Alan Lacer's video on the skew
chisel. He not only shows you the right way to make each of the many cuts,
he also shows you where they can go wrong. I got my copy last week and am
still looking at it. The man can do anything with the skew except make it
sing! A very good investment.

Harry

I have little problem rolling small to medium size beads. Once they get
fairly large, like the acorns on a finial, I'll roll 'em with a fingernail
ground spindle gouge. Much easier to control...

There is really no point, other than your personal feelings, of sticking to
one way to do something or insisting on using a particular tool. Beads
don't have to be rolled just with skews or beading tools. Better if you
learn to roll them with every tool you have available, then choose the one
best suited for the task (size, wood, temperament) at hand.

Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI


"Ron Headon" wrote in message
...
I've now been turning for a number of years and happily churn out most of
the usual things with little problem - even to the point of having
mastered
a little twistwork! However, there's one stumbling block which seems so
fundamental it's almost embarrassing to admit it!: Turning beads with a
skew
chisel. I've just ruined yet another acorn-shaped finial because the skew,
once again, ran back up the bead resulting in one of those artistic spiral
dig-ins. I've tried using the toe end of the skew, the heel end, I've
tried
using a 10mm beading tool, all to no avail. I've understood that if I try
to
take too much timber off at once the cut gets blocked and the centrifugal
force applied by the wood becomes greater than the downward force of the
chisel - so I've tried taking off smaller amounts each cut. This results
in
having to take more cuts per bead to get the shape right and therefore the
chances of a dig-in seem to rise alarmingly. I can do a few beads
perfectly
OK and then the dig-in which has been lying in wait happens yet again.
Does
anyone have any ideas what I might be doing wrong? Oh, the other thing is:
do you use the bead-rolling technique to round the end of a spindle - for
example when forming an acorn shape or is there some other less hazardous
way of doing it? I'd be grateful for any help with this one - it's
becoming
a real pain.

Many thanks

Ron Headon
Swindon, England

Bill,

I just don't see beating yourself up trying to do beads with a skew when
it is usually
unnecessary. A 3/8 beading and parting tool is much friendlier and easier
to use and
will turn 95% of the beads which you will need to turn.

I don't disagree with your comment about ease of use. But with a skew you
get a much better finish. Alan Lacer demonstrates the difference in the
quality of a shoulder cut made with a parting tool and with a skew. The skew
wins hands down. This may not be a big deal to you or to me, but to a
production turner getting a nearly finished product directly from the tool
is important. But like everything else in this hobby, you do what works for
you.

Harry

In article ,
"Bruce Ferguson" wrote:

I think what may be happening when makeing the bead with the skew is that
you are looseing the bevel.

I believe what's happening, at least in my experience, is that the tool
handle is getting ahead of the cut with the result of the sharp edge
skating up the diameter. Meaning, for example, that if you are cutting
towards the right, the handle must be more to the left than the cutting
edge. If the handle is kept behind the cut, whichever direction you are
moving, you will maintain control and if too far behind the cut the only
thing that happens is that you lever the edge, on the heel of the bevel,
away from the work and lose the cutting action.

I'll third, forth or fifth the suggestion on viewing Lacer's Skew video.

--
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 21:58:50 -0700, Owen Lowe wrote:

In article ,
"Bruce Ferguson" wrote:

I think what may be happening when makeing the bead with the skew is
that you are looseing the bevel.

I believe what's happening, at least in my experience, is that the tool
handle is getting ahead of the cut with the result of the sharp edge
skating up the diameter.

The tool handle must be kept at less than 90 degrees to the workpiece
with the bevel rubbing. If you roll it to a perpendicular position,
it will skate up.

John

And no video needed.

I prefer a Bedan or standard beading tool for close beads. Its geometry is
your friend, and you also get a great tenon sizer in the bargain.


"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
. net...
I just don't see beating yourself up trying to do beads with a skew when
it is usually
unnecessary. A 3/8 beading and parting tool is much friendlier and easier
to use and
will turn 95% of the beads which you will need to turn.

Martin Pidgeon is as good a spindle turner as I've ever seen working and
he uses the beading
and parting tool. He is fast, accurate and gets a very good finish. If
it is good enough
for him it is good enough for me.

Bill

In article s.com,

says...
Ron,

I'll echo what Bruce says. Get a copy of Alan Lacer's video on the skew
chisel. He not only shows you the right way to make each of the many
cuts,
he also shows you where they can go wrong. I got my copy last week and
am
still looking at it. The man can do anything with the skew except make
it
sing! A very good investment.

Harry

Think about it. The edge is the edge. Whether or not the chisel is square
or skewed across its width makes no difference. You can - and I do - skew
the edge by moving the handle of the tool for smooth cutting. The
difference is you don't have that point hanging out as you roll down and in.

It's actually easier to cut smoothly on a narrow face with the chisel or
beading tool.

"Harry B. Pye" wrote in message
roups.com...
Bill,

I just don't see beating yourself up trying to do beads with a skew when
it is usually
unnecessary. A 3/8 beading and parting tool is much friendlier and
easier
to use and
will turn 95% of the beads which you will need to turn.

I don't disagree with your comment about ease of use. But with a skew you
get a much better finish. Alan Lacer demonstrates the difference in the
quality of a shoulder cut made with a parting tool and with a skew. The
skew
wins hands down. This may not be a big deal to you or to me, but to a
production turner getting a nearly finished product directly from the tool
is important. But like everything else in this hobby, you do what works
for
you.

Harry

But my point was... as a production turner, Martin puts us all to shame. He gets a near-
flawless surface on beads quickly and does not use a skew.

Maybe Alan Lacer WANTS the skew to win hands down in his video because that is what he is
selling?

Bill

In article s.com,
says...
Bill,

I just don't see beating yourself up trying to do beads with a skew when
it is usually
unnecessary. A 3/8 beading and parting tool is much friendlier and easier
to use and
will turn 95% of the beads which you will need to turn.

I don't disagree with your comment about ease of use. But with a skew you
get a much better finish. Alan Lacer demonstrates the difference in the
quality of a shoulder cut made with a parting tool and with a skew. The skew
wins hands down. This may not be a big deal to you or to me, but to a
production turner getting a nearly finished product directly from the tool
is important. But like everything else in this hobby, you do what works for
you.

Harry

Hi all,

Thanks for your comments. There's some food for thought there. I'd toyed
with the idea of buying Alan Lacer's video since I saw it advertised but
wasn't sure. Your recommendations have confirmed I could definitely learn a
thing or two from buying it. The comment about me "losing the bevel" sounds
as though it might well be the answer. I must go and experiment some more
(this time on scrap wood!).

Thanks again.

Ron


"Michael Latcha" wrote in message
...
I have little problem rolling small to medium size beads. Once they get
fairly large, like the acorns on a finial, I'll roll 'em with a fingernail
ground spindle gouge. Much easier to control...

There is really no point, other than your personal feelings, of sticking
to
one way to do something or insisting on using a particular tool. Beads
don't have to be rolled just with skews or beading tools. Better if you
learn to roll them with every tool you have available, then choose the one
best suited for the task (size, wood, temperament) at hand.

Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI


"Ron Headon" wrote in message
...
I've now been turning for a number of years and happily churn out most
of
the usual things with little problem - even to the point of having
mastered
a little twistwork! However, there's one stumbling block which seems so
fundamental it's almost embarrassing to admit it!: Turning beads with a
skew
chisel. I've just ruined yet another acorn-shaped finial because the
skew,
once again, ran back up the bead resulting in one of those artistic
spiral
dig-ins. I've tried using the toe end of the skew, the heel end, I've
tried
using a 10mm beading tool, all to no avail. I've understood that if I
try
to
take too much timber off at once the cut gets blocked and the
centrifugal
force applied by the wood becomes greater than the downward force of the
chisel - so I've tried taking off smaller amounts each cut. This results
in
having to take more cuts per bead to get the shape right and therefore
the
chances of a dig-in seem to rise alarmingly. I can do a few beads
perfectly
OK and then the dig-in which has been lying in wait happens yet again.
Does
anyone have any ideas what I might be doing wrong? Oh, the other thing
is:
do you use the bead-rolling technique to round the end of a spindle -
for
example when forming an acorn shape or is there some other less
hazardous
way of doing it? I'd be grateful for any help with this one - it's
becoming
a real pain.

Many thanks

Ron Headon
Swindon, England

Hi Ron, Probably already been advised, but it can't hurt to emphasize.
Make your first experimental cuts by holding the skew in your right hand
and turning the lathe spindle with the left. Watch the skew-wood
interactions _closely and you will learn a lot. Then, and only then, run
the lathe slowly and watch _carefully.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



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