Walnut torture
 

Hi all,

I'm new to turning (so that may be the problem here...). I've been
practicing on some mahogany I had around and have gotten fairly
successful. Well, I picked up a block of walnut and haven't been so
lucky with it. I'm trying to hollow out a shallow bowl and my
fingernail gouge quickly catches and throws the bowl off the lathe.
This is bad. I'd really appreciate some help here. Here's what I've
observed:

1. The stock is being held by a nova chuck expanded into a recess in
the bottom of the bowl. It's held pretty tightly.

2. My 1/2" fingernail gouge is brand new, sharpened with a tormek
jig. Sure seems sharp to me. I've never used it before, so technique
could easily be the problem.

3. The walnut is very dry.

4. If I use a scraper, I can be pretty successful with the hollowing.

5. If I use the gouge, it catches brutally and throws the bowl.

Any thoughts?

Many thanks,
Joe

wrote:
Hi all,

I'm new to turning (so that may be the problem here...). I've been
practicing on some mahogany I had around and have gotten fairly
successful. Well, I picked up a block of walnut and haven't been so
lucky with it. I'm trying to hollow out a shallow bowl and my
fingernail gouge quickly catches and throws the bowl off the lathe.
This is bad. I'd really appreciate some help here. Here's what I've
observed:

1. The stock is being held by a nova chuck expanded into a recess in
the bottom of the bowl. It's held pretty tightly.

2. My 1/2" fingernail gouge is brand new, sharpened with a tormek
jig. Sure seems sharp to me. I've never used it before, so technique
could easily be the problem.

3. The walnut is very dry.

4. If I use a scraper, I can be pretty successful with the hollowing.

5. If I use the gouge, it catches brutally and throws the bowl.

Any thoughts?

Many thanks,
Joe
About the gouge -- is it a fingernail grind on a bowl (deep flute) gouge
or a spindle gouge. What angle is it ground to?

--

Gerald Ross, Cochran, GA
To reply add the numerals "13" before the "at"
............................................
Phobia: what's left after drinking 2
out of a 6 pack




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I have dealt with some walnut that was just barely softer than the HHS gouge
I was taking to it. Old (I mean ooolllllddddd) and very dry, grain all
gnarly and gorgeous... and it would not (I mean wood KNOT!) cleanly cut with
any tool or technique I tried. I ended up scraping a bowl out if it, to
something more than my pre-determined desired thickness, then sanding the
broken and torn surface for hours. And when finally I wiped on a liberal
coat of oil, the grain popped and took my breath away... and sold it within
seconds on a table full of thinner, more conventional bowls.

Sometimes you have to listen carefully to the wood you are turning. You
have heard that your piece of walnut doesn't want to be cut cleanly by you,
at this time. Your options? Put it aside until you get more experience....
or slowly and carefully scrape a bowl from it. Either way, it sounds like a
wonderful learning experience and a great story in the making. Let us know
how it turns out :)

Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI


wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I'm new to turning (so that may be the problem here...). I've been
practicing on some mahogany I had around and have gotten fairly
successful. Well, I picked up a block of walnut and haven't been so
lucky with it. I'm trying to hollow out a shallow bowl and my
fingernail gouge quickly catches and throws the bowl off the lathe.
This is bad. I'd really appreciate some help here. Here's what I've
observed:

1. The stock is being held by a nova chuck expanded into a recess in
the bottom of the bowl. It's held pretty tightly.

2. My 1/2" fingernail gouge is brand new, sharpened with a tormek
jig. Sure seems sharp to me. I've never used it before, so technique
could easily be the problem.

3. The walnut is very dry.

4. If I use a scraper, I can be pretty successful with the hollowing.

5. If I use the gouge, it catches brutally and throws the bowl.

Any thoughts?

Many thanks,
Joe

Joe, A number of things could be the cause. Here's my input.

Is the grain direction perpendicular or parallel to the spindle of the
lathe?

If perpendicular, this is normal 'bowl mode'. Hollow the inside from the
outside in and make sure you are cutting with only the right hand
(leading) side of the gouge. Don't let the absolute point or left side
of the gouge cut. Also, try to feed the gouge more in a lateral arc
through the piece or sliding along the rest. Avoid an in-line push.

If parallel, 'spindle mode', work from the center to the edge. Make sure
your cutting is done with the leading edge as you pull it through. If
the trailing edge catches, kaboom.

Then again, maybe it is one of the other dozen possible reasons causing
the problem. Let us know how it works out.

David

wrote:
Hi all,

I'm new to turning (so that may be the problem here...). I've been
practicing on some mahogany I had around and have gotten fairly
successful. Well, I picked up a block of walnut and haven't been so
lucky with it. I'm trying to hollow out a shallow bowl and my
fingernail gouge quickly catches and throws the bowl off the lathe.
This is bad. I'd really appreciate some help here. Here's what I've
observed:

1. The stock is being held by a nova chuck expanded into a recess in
the bottom of the bowl. It's held pretty tightly.

2. My 1/2" fingernail gouge is brand new, sharpened with a tormek
jig. Sure seems sharp to me. I've never used it before, so technique
could easily be the problem.

3. The walnut is very dry.

4. If I use a scraper, I can be pretty successful with the hollowing.

5. If I use the gouge, it catches brutally and throws the bowl.

Any thoughts?

Many thanks,
Joe

--
http://www.wademade.net

wrote in message . ..

I've never used it before, so technique
could easily be the problem.

3. The walnut is very dry.

4. If I use a scraper, I can be pretty successful with the hollowing.

5. If I use the gouge, it catches brutally and throws the bowl.

Any thoughts?

Many thanks,
Joe
I think you need to do some reading or get somebody to give you a few
lessons. As a suggestion try here for some good basic technique
advice:
http://www.turningtools.co.uk/index.html
Also I would reduce the speed as much as possible and try adjusting
tool rest height until you find something that works for you.
Hope this helps

I think that you can save yourself a lot of torture and maybe an injury by finding a more
experienced turner to give you a little coaching. Most of us are more than willing to help
out a fellow turner -- that is the way we learned. Books and tapes are ok but no substitute
for some one on one. And (s)he can teach you how to get that gouge ground right (it probably
is not from the factory) and keep it that way.

Also, many of us refuse to use our chucks expanded into a recess. There are better ways to
do it.

Bill

In article , says...
Joe, A number of things could be the cause. Here's my input.

Is the grain direction perpendicular or parallel to the spindle of the
lathe?

If perpendicular, this is normal 'bowl mode'. Hollow the inside from the
outside in and make sure you are cutting with only the right hand
(leading) side of the gouge. Don't let the absolute point or left side
of the gouge cut. Also, try to feed the gouge more in a lateral arc
through the piece or sliding along the rest. Avoid an in-line push.

If parallel, 'spindle mode', work from the center to the edge. Make sure
your cutting is done with the leading edge as you pull it through. If
the trailing edge catches, kaboom.

Then again, maybe it is one of the other dozen possible reasons causing
the problem. Let us know how it works out.

David

wrote:
Hi all,

I'm new to turning (so that may be the problem here...). I've been
practicing on some mahogany I had around and have gotten fairly
successful. Well, I picked up a block of walnut and haven't been so
lucky with it. I'm trying to hollow out a shallow bowl and my
fingernail gouge quickly catches and throws the bowl off the lathe.
This is bad. I'd really appreciate some help here. Here's what I've
observed:

1. The stock is being held by a nova chuck expanded into a recess in
the bottom of the bowl. It's held pretty tightly.

2. My 1/2" fingernail gouge is brand new, sharpened with a tormek
jig. Sure seems sharp to me. I've never used it before, so technique
could easily be the problem.

3. The walnut is very dry.

4. If I use a scraper, I can be pretty successful with the hollowing.

5. If I use the gouge, it catches brutally and throws the bowl.

Any thoughts?

Many thanks,
Joe

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 15:06:20 -0500, "Dr. Deb"
wrote:


Deb,

I would assume your are turning bowls with mahogany glue ups.

Why do you assume that?

Drill out the center of the bowl with a forstner bit (bigger the better) to
get rid of the bulk of the material to be removed. Then, very, very
lightly work from the center to the edge, cutting your thickness as you go.

That's interesting. I've found, especially with ornery wood, that I
like to work from the outside in, turning down most of the way to the
bottom on the outside, so the inner wood (un-drilled) supports the
rest of the bowl and there's much less vibration and movement.

Where did you get the mahogany?

Are you in need of mahogany? I know where you can get it, if you are.
Up to at least 12/4 stock, anyhow, of genuine mahogany. (Nice stuff,
too.)


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget


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Or - you don't know how....

"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
. net...

Also, many of us refuse to use our chucks expanded into a recess. There
are better ways to
do it.

A cute response. Maybe even not nice. But...

I find that a tenon will always do the job better and there is not the chance of blowing out
the dovetail -- it happens you know. Anyway, I would never leave a dovetail on the bottom of
anything -- I want no sign of how the piece was chucked or it is a failure as far as I'm
concerned. So, I'd have to reverse chuck and get rid of the dovetail. That said, I'd rather
get rid of a tenon.

I know that Raffin uses dovetails and leaves them that way on his work -- his logic is that
he can then rechuck and re-turn a piece at any time. I wonder how many times a customer has
brought a piece back to him to re-turn.

Bill

In article , george@least says...
Or - you don't know how....

"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
. net...

Also, many of us refuse to use our chucks expanded into a recess. There
are better ways to
do it.

Your response to the first indicated that you do not know what holds a
dovetail in the recess. You wrote "Also, many of us refuse to use our
chucks expanded into a recess." It is not expansion into a recess that
holds, it is a wedging of the nose of the jaws into the base of the piece by
the dovetail. You are one of many, if this forum is any indication, who do
not understand this. We have a lot of people talking about "tightening" in
the recess, which is dead wrong. Take a look at
http://personalpages.tds.net/~upgeor...ugh%20Page.htm and following
to see how to add the recess to your turning possibilities.

You also do not understand that if you care to decorate the bottom, you may
do so _before_ reversing to hollow, as long as you provide a flat surface
for the jaws to bear against. I do not normally do more than sand smooth,
but will gladly furnish photographic examples of this useful technique as
well, if your interest is in new creative opportunities.

Last, the day a customer brings something for me to re-turn, refinish,
embellish or otherwise modify what I have created to my own standard, is the
day I give my first refund.

"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
. net...
A cute response. Maybe even not nice. But...

I find that a tenon will always do the job better and there is not the
chance of blowing out
the dovetail -- it happens you know. Anyway, I would never leave a
dovetail on the bottom of
anything -- I want no sign of how the piece was chucked or it is a failure
as far as I'm
concerned. So, I'd have to reverse chuck and get rid of the dovetail.
That said, I'd rather
get rid of a tenon.

I know that Raffin uses dovetails and leaves them that way on his work --
his logic is that
he can then rechuck and re-turn a piece at any time. I wonder how many
times a customer has
brought a piece back to him to re-turn.

Bill

In article , george@least says...
Or - you don't know how....

"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
. net...

Also, many of us refuse to use our chucks expanded into a recess.
There
are better ways to
do it.

I greatly appreciate all the feedback.

I went a head and moved forward with the scraper and ended up with a
pretty nice bowl.

http://www.skehan.org/wood/1.jpg

I've also decided to take a hard look at my technique. I've revisited
some books and seen where I have a lot of room to improve.

I'd like to know more about alternative ways to hold the bowl on the
chuck.

Thanks again,

Joe


On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 10:34:35 -0600, wrote:

Hi all,

I'm new to turning (so that may be the problem here...). I've been
practicing on some mahogany I had around and have gotten fairly
successful. Well, I picked up a block of walnut and haven't been so
lucky with it. I'm trying to hollow out a shallow bowl and my
fingernail gouge quickly catches and throws the bowl off the lathe.
This is bad. I'd really appreciate some help here. Here's what I've
observed:

1. The stock is being held by a nova chuck expanded into a recess in
the bottom of the bowl. It's held pretty tightly.

2. My 1/2" fingernail gouge is brand new, sharpened with a tormek
jig. Sure seems sharp to me. I've never used it before, so technique
could easily be the problem.

3. The walnut is very dry.

4. If I use a scraper, I can be pretty successful with the hollowing.

5. If I use the gouge, it catches brutally and throws the bowl.

Any thoughts?

Many thanks,
Joe

You did very well with your bowl, indeed.
And you learned a lot in the process, which is even better.

There are but two ways to hold work in a chuck: on a tenon or in a recess.
There are many other ways of holding bowls on a lathe, from faceplates to
between centers to jam chucks to vacuum chucking. All have their place and
use, all have those who swear by (and at) them. Explore all of them, keep
what works for you. Look at the books and videos of Raffin, Conover and
Jordon for starters. And always keep looking to refine your techniques.

Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI


wrote in message
...
I greatly appreciate all the feedback.

I went a head and moved forward with the scraper and ended up with a
pretty nice bowl.

http://www.skehan.org/wood/1.jpg

I've also decided to take a hard look at my technique. I've revisited
some books and seen where I have a lot of room to improve.

I'd like to know more about alternative ways to hold the bowl on the
chuck.

Thanks again,

Joe


On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 10:34:35 -0600, wrote:

Hi all,

I'm new to turning (so that may be the problem here...). I've been
practicing on some mahogany I had around and have gotten fairly
successful. Well, I picked up a block of walnut and haven't been so
lucky with it. I'm trying to hollow out a shallow bowl and my
fingernail gouge quickly catches and throws the bowl off the lathe.
This is bad. I'd really appreciate some help here. Here's what I've
observed:

1. The stock is being held by a nova chuck expanded into a recess in
the bottom of the bowl. It's held pretty tightly.

2. My 1/2" fingernail gouge is brand new, sharpened with a tormek
jig. Sure seems sharp to me. I've never used it before, so technique
could easily be the problem.

3. The walnut is very dry.

4. If I use a scraper, I can be pretty successful with the hollowing.

5. If I use the gouge, it catches brutally and throws the bowl.

Any thoughts?

Many thanks,
Joe

Former Joy/Beech here. Heights side of Joy.

"Anonymous" wrote in message
news:pan.2004.09.04.05.23.39.721799@notarealserver .com...
On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 10:15:58 +0000, Michael Latcha wrote:


Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI

Michael,
"Hello" from across the street (I-96 & Telegraph) in Detroit.

Bill