DIYbanter - Draft review of P&N tools

As usual, this is a near final draft of an article that will appear in
the next issue of More Woodturning. The published version will have
photos and a table, and be better formatted, but otherwise be pretty
similar.

Lyn

A Sampling of P&N Woodturning Tools

P&N woodturning tools come from the Australian company of Patience &
Nicholson. I first learned of these tools from Richard Raffan, who
mentioned he regularly used them. I never gave much thought to them
after that, as they have never been available in the U.S. from any of
the big woodturning suppliers. That changed recently, when first Lee
Valley, and more recently Craft Supplies, decided to pick up a moderate
selection of unhandled P&N tools (there are also a few small suppliers
such as Rich Johnson in California).

I was particularly pleased to see the tools offered without handles. The
larger my tool collection grows, the more I appreciate how unhandled
tools can be stored compactly. More importantly, I find that matching
unhandled tools to a through-bored steel handle allows for greater
control of unsupported shaft length, and allows for greater consistency
of working characteristics over the tool’s life. This consistency is
achieved as one initially can seat the long shaft more deeply in the
handle, then later seat it more shallowly as the tool shortens with
sharpening, thus maintaining a single exposed shaft length over a
greater portion of the tool’s life. Finally, purchasing an unhandled
tool allows the turner to choose handle length, weight and even handle
material (steel, aluminum or wood) to suit individual preference.

The only downside I find is that many of the P&N round tool shafts are
12 mm in diameter, which is sufficiently undersized from 1/2 inch (which
is approximately 12.7 mm), to make these tools fit rather loosely in
steel handles of 1/2 inch bore (e.g., Kelton, Oneway & Jordan). They
will work, as the set screws of these handles will take up the slack,
but a tighter fit would be desirable. This is also a warning for those
who would drill out a store bought or custom wooden handle. Don’t use a
1/2 inch drill bit, but instead use a smaller fractional size or obtain
a metric 12 mm bit.

Unfortunately, many of the larger diameter tools, such as the 32mm
roughing gouge, 16 mm Bowl gouge and 22mm Supa gouge have the last 2 or
more inches of their shafts turned down to 12 mm. It would be great if
the North American importers could specify these shafts to be necked
down to a 1/2 inch or 13 mm size instead. [After viewing a draft copy of
this article, P&N now intends to change to a 1/2 inch shank size to
better fit the commercial handles commonly available in North America.
These should become available when present stock is depleted.] Indeed,
with the 16 mm bowl gouge (which very closely approximates 5/8 of an
inch), it would be highly desirable to have this gouge maintain a
uniform length throughout its shaft, which would allow it to fit quite
well in steel handles of 5/8 inch bore (again, the Kelton, Oneway and
Jordan, for example, as well as the Hamlet) and offer greater choice
over how deeply the tool could be seated in a steel handle. I would
really like to see this happen, but I have less confidence this change
will take place, as the 12mm (and future 1/2 inch) diameter will be
preferred by some making their own wooden handles.

All of P&N offerings are credible M2 HSS tools, most being a comparable
alternative to the standard M2 Crown, Hamlet, Henry Taylor and Sorby
fare. P&N follows the North American convention of sizing all gouges
according to the external diameter of the tool shaft, regardless of
flute style. The detail gouges have very shallow flutes, the spindle
gouges are slightly deeper, and the bowl gouges have deep flutes which
to my eye appear slightly parabolic in shape, though P&N calls them U
shaped. The flutes are adequately finished, about the same as a Glaser,
though not as polished as a Sorby. Of course, any flute will soon become
polished if you regularly maintain it with a slipstone. Hardness varies
from 58 to 65 Rockwell depending on intended use. Some of the older P&N
tools have a sandblasted finish (much like you’d find on a Glaser), but
most recent production goes though a final “straw tempering” process and
comes with a black oxide finish.

Of the several tools I have from the P&N line, three strike me as
exemplary in design and performance. The first of these is the roughing
gouge. To my knowledge, P&N is unique in offering roughing gouges milled
from round bar stock, rather than the usual practice of forging from
flat stock. This allows for a much heavier than average roughing gouge
(relative to others of the same size) and a very sturdy transition from
side walls to tang. The round tang is far stronger than the narrow flat
tangs of other roughing gouges, and allows the gouge to fit into the
round bores of steel handles. Milling from round stock also allows for
side walls of a constant radius, unlike most roughing gouges where the
upper portion of the flute is flared. The potential down side of this
approach is that with the deep flute ground below center, the upper
section of the side walls curve in slightly. I have not found this to be
a problem, as I don’t tend to cut in that area of my roughing gouges.
For those that are concerned, one can lightly grind down the upper
corners until the front profile is exactly a hemisphere. You can also
try a tip from Michael Hosaluk (one of the first North American P&N
importers) who notches the upper corners (going back about 3/8 of an
inch) of the gouge (see attached photo). Michael does this so that he
can get a clean cut on the side of details (such as square shoulders on
tenons) with this side bevel when the gouge is held with the flute
parallel to the tool rest.

The second is the 22mm Supa Gouge. This is a very ruggedly designed tool
with a deep U shaped flute and thick sidewalls. Mine is almost 7/8
inches in outside diameter. One could also get by with using this gouge
as a small spindle roughing gouge, and several turners have reported
preferring it over a traditional roughing gouge. Most will choose it for
initial roughing out of bowls, or use its diameter (and thus strength)
to get by with long extensions over the tool rest when working with very
deep bowls. For those of you who just can’t justify the expense of a 3/4
inch V-15 Glaser, but would like a large rugged bowl gouge, the P&N Supa
is very affordably priced. I keep mine with a traditional straight
across grind, which works very well with the large deep U shape of the
flute.

The third is their skew. Many are familiar with the excellent video
prepared by Alan Lacer where he demonstrates the use of the skew, and
recommends how to form the edges of the skew for optimal use with either
the long or short point. Lacer describes how to round the edges of the
short point side, and leave the long point side with a flat edge with
lightly radiused corners. Fans of this configuration will be pleased to
know that the P&N skew comes from the factory in this configuration, and
apparently has always been provided this way. I find it a very
effective configuration (all the reasons for which I won’t go into here,
but instead refer you to the Lacer tape available from most major
woodworking suppliers), and appreciate that little of my time was
required to make the P&N skew ready for some serious use. I must have
near a dozen skews, including five different Glasers, but this P&N skew
has instantly become one of my favorites. For me, it has just the right
combination of width (30 mm), length, and bevel angle to make it an
excellent general purpose skew. Its width makes it a particularly good
choice for both beginning and experienced skew users. It is also a
significantly thicker skew than most others (8 mm compared to a more
usual 6 mm), which adds to its weight and stability. P&N also offers a
narrower 24 mm skew from the same thick 8mm steel.

Finally, I should comment a bit more on their Detail Gouges. Many gouge
manufacturers offer one or two sizes of detail gouge, but P&N offers
four, ranging from 8 mm to 16 mm (roughly 5/16 to 5/8 inches). The
gouge normally comes delivered with a blunt fingernail shape which is
functional, but not my preferred. I was fortunate in that the North
American P&N rep, Greg Jensen, sent me an 8 mm detail gouge he had
personally ground based on some ideas of Stewart Batty that both Greg
and Mike Mahoney have adopted. (see photo). Basically Greg freehand
sharpened the gouge with a spindle gouge fingernail profile, putting a
40 degree bevel all around the tool, then ground off the bevel to give
a convex shape. Stuart Batty contends you prevent bruising the wood with
this grind, and Greg also has found it is easier to control the tool
when the bevel is short (and thus provides less leverage to come out of
the cut). Greg notes that Batty actually grinds the bevel off all his
Spindle, Detail and Bowl gouges, making his cuts with the gouge flute as
close to a 12 o’clock position as possible, contacting the wood with the
left side of the gouge. I have had only limited experience with this
grind, but have found it effective. However, I have a lot more trouble
maintaining the geometry (most know I am not fond of freehand grinding)
and so for me find it best saved for a single, special use tool. In
this context, I found the 8mm P&N Detail Gouge to have been a good
platform for this grind, as also would be the 10 mm.

What follows is a chart showing the characteristics and handle
recommendations for the P&N tools I have used:

Nice work Lyn. I noticed these in the latest Lee Valley flyer I received
and was interested because they are significantly less expensive than other
brands. I will now give them a try. Thanks.
Tony Manella
ndd1"at"prolog.net (remove "at")
http://home.ptd.net/~ndd1/
Lehigh Valley Woodturners
http://www.lehighvalleywoodturners.org/

"Lyn J. Mangiameli" wrote in message
nk.net...
As usual, this is a near final draft of an article that will appear in
the next issue of More Woodturning. The published version will have
photos and a table, and be better formatted, but otherwise be pretty
similar.

Lyn

A Sampling of P&N Woodturning Tools

P&N woodturning tools come from the Australian company of Patience &
Nicholson. I first learned of these tools from Richard Raffan, who
mentioned he regularly used them. I never gave much thought to them
after that, as they have never been available in the U.S. from any of
the big woodturning suppliers. That changed recently, when first Lee
Valley, and more recently Craft Supplies, decided to pick up a moderate
selection of unhandled P&N tools (there are also a few small suppliers
such as Rich Johnson in California).

I was particularly pleased to see the tools offered without handles. The
larger my tool collection grows, the more I appreciate how unhandled
tools can be stored compactly. More importantly, I find that matching
unhandled tools to a through-bored steel handle allows for greater
control of unsupported shaft length, and allows for greater consistency
of working characteristics over the tool’s life. This consistency is
achieved as one initially can seat the long shaft more deeply in the
handle, then later seat it more shallowly as the tool shortens with
sharpening, thus maintaining a single exposed shaft length over a
greater portion of the tool’s life. Finally, purchasing an unhandled
tool allows the turner to choose handle length, weight and even handle
material (steel, aluminum or wood) to suit individual preference.

The only downside I find is that many of the P&N round tool shafts are
12 mm in diameter, which is sufficiently undersized from 1/2 inch (which
is approximately 12.7 mm), to make these tools fit rather loosely in
steel handles of 1/2 inch bore (e.g., Kelton, Oneway & Jordan). They
will work, as the set screws of these handles will take up the slack,
but a tighter fit would be desirable. This is also a warning for those
who would drill out a store bought or custom wooden handle. Don’t use a
1/2 inch drill bit, but instead use a smaller fractional size or obtain
a metric 12 mm bit.

Unfortunately, many of the larger diameter tools, such as the 32mm
roughing gouge, 16 mm Bowl gouge and 22mm Supa gouge have the last 2 or
more inches of their shafts turned down to 12 mm. It would be great if
the North American importers could specify these shafts to be necked
down to a 1/2 inch or 13 mm size instead. [After viewing a draft copy of
this article, P&N now intends to change to a 1/2 inch shank size to
better fit the commercial handles commonly available in North America.
These should become available when present stock is depleted.] Indeed,
with the 16 mm bowl gouge (which very closely approximates 5/8 of an
inch), it would be highly desirable to have this gouge maintain a
uniform length throughout its shaft, which would allow it to fit quite
well in steel handles of 5/8 inch bore (again, the Kelton, Oneway and
Jordan, for example, as well as the Hamlet) and offer greater choice
over how deeply the tool could be seated in a steel handle. I would
really like to see this happen, but I have less confidence this change
will take place, as the 12mm (and future 1/2 inch) diameter will be
preferred by some making their own wooden handles.

All of P&N offerings are credible M2 HSS tools, most being a comparable
alternative to the standard M2 Crown, Hamlet, Henry Taylor and Sorby
fare. P&N follows the North American convention of sizing all gouges
according to the external diameter of the tool shaft, regardless of
flute style. The detail gouges have very shallow flutes, the spindle
gouges are slightly deeper, and the bowl gouges have deep flutes which
to my eye appear slightly parabolic in shape, though P&N calls them U
shaped. The flutes are adequately finished, about the same as a Glaser,
though not as polished as a Sorby. Of course, any flute will soon become
polished if you regularly maintain it with a slipstone. Hardness varies
from 58 to 65 Rockwell depending on intended use. Some of the older P&N
tools have a sandblasted finish (much like you’d find on a Glaser), but
most recent production goes though a final “straw tempering” process and
comes with a black oxide finish.

Of the several tools I have from the P&N line, three strike me as
exemplary in design and performance. The first of these is the roughing
gouge. To my knowledge, P&N is unique in offering roughing gouges milled
from round bar stock, rather than the usual practice of forging from
flat stock. This allows for a much heavier than average roughing gouge
(relative to others of the same size) and a very sturdy transition from
side walls to tang. The round tang is far stronger than the narrow flat
tangs of other roughing gouges, and allows the gouge to fit into the
round bores of steel handles. Milling from round stock also allows for
side walls of a constant radius, unlike most roughing gouges where the
upper portion of the flute is flared. The potential down side of this
approach is that with the deep flute ground below center, the upper
section of the side walls curve in slightly. I have not found this to be
a problem, as I don’t tend to cut in that area of my roughing gouges.
For those that are concerned, one can lightly grind down the upper
corners until the front profile is exactly a hemisphere. You can also
try a tip from Michael Hosaluk (one of the first North American P&N
importers) who notches the upper corners (going back about 3/8 of an
inch) of the gouge (see attached photo). Michael does this so that he
can get a clean cut on the side of details (such as square shoulders on
tenons) with this side bevel when the gouge is held with the flute
parallel to the tool rest.

The second is the 22mm Supa Gouge. This is a very ruggedly designed tool
with a deep U shaped flute and thick sidewalls. Mine is almost 7/8
inches in outside diameter. One could also get by with using this gouge
as a small spindle roughing gouge, and several turners have reported
preferring it over a traditional roughing gouge. Most will choose it for
initial roughing out of bowls, or use its diameter (and thus strength)
to get by with long extensions over the tool rest when working with very
deep bowls. For those of you who just can’t justify the expense of a 3/4
inch V-15 Glaser, but would like a large rugged bowl gouge, the P&N Supa
is very affordably priced. I keep mine with a traditional straight
across grind, which works very well with the large deep U shape of the
flute.

The third is their skew. Many are familiar with the excellent video
prepared by Alan Lacer where he demonstrates the use of the skew, and
recommends how to form the edges of the skew for optimal use with either
the long or short point. Lacer describes how to round the edges of the
short point side, and leave the long point side with a flat edge with
lightly radiused corners. Fans of this configuration will be pleased to
know that the P&N skew comes from the factory in this configuration, and
apparently has always been provided this way. I find it a very
effective configuration (all the reasons for which I won’t go into here,
but instead refer you to the Lacer tape available from most major
woodworking suppliers), and appreciate that little of my time was
required to make the P&N skew ready for some serious use. I must have
near a dozen skews, including five different Glasers, but this P&N skew
has instantly become one of my favorites. For me, it has just the right
combination of width (30 mm), length, and bevel angle to make it an
excellent general purpose skew. Its width makes it a particularly good
choice for both beginning and experienced skew users. It is also a
significantly thicker skew than most others (8 mm compared to a more
usual 6 mm), which adds to its weight and stability. P&N also offers a
narrower 24 mm skew from the same thick 8mm steel.

Finally, I should comment a bit more on their Detail Gouges. Many gouge
manufacturers offer one or two sizes of detail gouge, but P&N offers
four, ranging from 8 mm to 16 mm (roughly 5/16 to 5/8 inches). The
gouge normally comes delivered with a blunt fingernail shape which is
functional, but not my preferred. I was fortunate in that the North
American P&N rep, Greg Jensen, sent me an 8 mm detail gouge he had
personally ground based on some ideas of Stewart Batty that both Greg
and Mike Mahoney have adopted. (see photo). Basically Greg freehand
sharpened the gouge with a spindle gouge fingernail profile, putting a
40 degree bevel all around the tool, then ground off the bevel to give
a convex shape. Stuart Batty contends you prevent bruising the wood with
this grind, and Greg also has found it is easier to control the tool
when the bevel is short (and thus provides less leverage to come out of
the cut). Greg notes that Batty actually grinds the bevel off all his
Spindle, Detail and Bowl gouges, making his cuts with the gouge flute as
close to a 12 o’clock position as possible, contacting the wood with the
left side of the gouge. I have had only limited experience with this
grind, but have found it effective. However, I have a lot more trouble
maintaining the geometry (most know I am not fond of freehand grinding)
and so for me find it best saved for a single, special use tool. In
this context, I found the 8mm P&N Detail Gouge to have been a good
platform for this grind, as also would be the 10 mm.

What follows is a chart showing the characteristics and handle
recommendations for the P&N tools I have used: