I'm starting to try my hand at small faceplate cups or bowls - nothing over
4" diameter and 3" deep yet.

Having a problem getting a smooth finish on the interior of the bowl. Don't
have the hang of getting a smooth cut on the inside walls with a gouge so I
use various round scrapers. This gives me some rough areas where there is
end grain. Can't seem to simply sand it out. Do I just need more practice or
is there something I've missed.

Mainly using claro walnut burl, maple and even some pine test pieces - same
result - rough spots on the inner and sometimes outer walls where there is
end grain. I buy the waxed blanks from various places and the wood is
usually from damp to wet, if that makes any difference.

Thanx,

Vic




--
There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
don't

On 01/05/2012 09:35 AM, Vic Baron wrote:
I'm starting to try my hand at small faceplate cups or bowls - nothing
over 4" diameter and 3" deep yet.

Having a problem getting a smooth finish on the interior of the bowl.
Don't have the hang of getting a smooth cut on the inside walls with a
gouge so I use various round scrapers. This gives me some rough areas
where there is end grain. Can't seem to simply sand it out. Do I just
need more practice or is there something I've missed.

Mainly using claro walnut burl, maple and even some pine test pieces -
same result - rough spots on the inner and sometimes outer walls where
there is end grain. I buy the waxed blanks from various places and the
wood is usually from damp to wet, if that makes any difference.

Best bet is to learn to use a gouge more effectively. I know, not much
help, sorry. Scrapers tend to tear out so getting a clean cut is
harder. Try doing a shear scrape rather than a regular scrape, that may
help.

Use a freshly sharpened tool.

Run the lathe as fast as safely possible, and cut very very slowly.

When sanding, wipe the area with tear out with paste wax, then sand.

--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
"In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car."
- Lawrence Summers

"Kevin Miller" wrote in message
mmunications...
On 01/05/2012 09:35 AM, Vic Baron wrote:
I'm starting to try my hand at small faceplate cups or bowls - nothing
over 4" diameter and 3" deep yet.

Having a problem getting a smooth finish on the interior of the bowl.
Don't have the hang of getting a smooth cut on the inside walls with a
gouge so I use various round scrapers. This gives me some rough areas
where there is end grain. Can't seem to simply sand it out. Do I just
need more practice or is there something I've missed.

Mainly using claro walnut burl, maple and even some pine test pieces -
same result - rough spots on the inner and sometimes outer walls where
there is end grain. I buy the waxed blanks from various places and the
wood is usually from damp to wet, if that makes any difference.

Best bet is to learn to use a gouge more effectively. I know, not much
help, sorry. Scrapers tend to tear out so getting a clean cut is harder.
Try doing a shear scrape rather than a regular scrape, that may help.

Use a freshly sharpened tool.

Run the lathe as fast as safely possible, and cut very very slowly.

When sanding, wipe the area with tear out with paste wax, then sand.


Thanx Kevin - will work on it!

Vic

On 1/5/2012 11:13 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:
On 01/05/2012 09:35 AM, Vic Baron wrote:
I'm starting to try my hand at small faceplate cups or bowls - nothing
over 4" diameter and 3" deep yet.

Having a problem getting a smooth finish on the interior of the bowl.
Don't have the hang of getting a smooth cut on the inside walls with a
gouge so I use various round scrapers. This gives me some rough areas
where there is end grain. Can't seem to simply sand it out. Do I just
need more practice or is there something I've missed.

Mainly using claro walnut burl, maple and even some pine test pieces -
same result - rough spots on the inner and sometimes outer walls where
there is end grain. I buy the waxed blanks from various places and the
wood is usually from damp to wet, if that makes any difference.

Best bet is to learn to use a gouge more effectively. I know, not much
help, sorry. Scrapers tend to tear out so getting a clean cut is harder.
Try doing a shear scrape rather than a regular scrape, that may help.

Use a freshly sharpened tool.

Run the lathe as fast as safely possible, and cut very very slowly.

When sanding, wipe the area with tear out with paste wax, then sand.



all Kevin said.
Hold scraper at about 45 deg to 60 deg angle with the leading edge (near
center of bowl) raised up off the rest. make sure it's razor sharp.

with gouge, make a smooth sweeping cut from bottom to top, very sharp
gouge. You can invert the gouge and use as a shear scraper and clean up
tear out, but if you are not really really careful, you will get a catch
that you will remember for a long time because you are not rubbing the
bevel or anything.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
On 1/5/2012 11:13 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:
On 01/05/2012 09:35 AM, Vic Baron wrote:
I'm starting to try my hand at small faceplate cups or bowls - nothing
over 4" diameter and 3" deep yet.

Having a problem getting a smooth finish on the interior of the bowl.
Don't have the hang of getting a smooth cut on the inside walls with a
gouge so I use various round scrapers. This gives me some rough areas
where there is end grain. Can't seem to simply sand it out. Do I just
need more practice or is there something I've missed.

Mainly using claro walnut burl, maple and even some pine test pieces -
same result - rough spots on the inner and sometimes outer walls where
there is end grain. I buy the waxed blanks from various places and the
wood is usually from damp to wet, if that makes any difference.

Best bet is to learn to use a gouge more effectively. I know, not much
help, sorry. Scrapers tend to tear out so getting a clean cut is harder.
Try doing a shear scrape rather than a regular scrape, that may help.

Use a freshly sharpened tool.

Run the lathe as fast as safely possible, and cut very very slowly.

When sanding, wipe the area with tear out with paste wax, then sand.



all Kevin said.
Hold scraper at about 45 deg to 60 deg angle with the leading edge (near
center of bowl) raised up off the rest. make sure it's razor sharp.

with gouge, make a smooth sweeping cut from bottom to top, very sharp
gouge. You can invert the gouge and use as a shear scraper and clean up
tear out, but if you are not really really careful, you will get a catch
that you will remember for a long time because you are not rubbing the
bevel or anything.

Bottom to top - you mean center to rim?

When I hollow the bowl I always work toward the center, scooping more each
time. So you are saying that the smoothing cuts be made in the reverse
direction?

Trying to get my head around this.

Thanx!

Vic

Vic Baron wrote:

I'm starting to try my hand at small faceplate cups or bowls - nothing
over 4" diameter and 3" deep yet.

Having a problem getting a smooth finish on the interior of the bowl.
Don't have the hang of getting a smooth cut on the inside walls with a
gouge so I use various round scrapers. This gives me some rough areas
where there is end grain. Can't seem to simply sand it out. Do I just need
more practice or is there something I've missed.

Mainly using claro walnut burl, maple and even some pine test pieces -
same result - rough spots on the inner and sometimes outer walls where
there is end grain. I buy the waxed blanks from various places and the
wood is usually from damp to wet, if that makes any difference.

Thanx,

Vic


Vic, as everyone else has said, "The gouge needs to be sharp." That does
not mean you need to be able to shave with it or that the little microbes go
"eak, eak" when you breathe on it. But it needs to feel sharp when you run
your finger across it.

I have found using the gouge inverted to a 120degree angle and making light
scrapes with it, will clean a lot of the tear out up. Then there is always
shellac, thin CA glue, wax (which I have not used, or even thought of - will
have to give it a try) or MinWax Woodhardner to stablize the grain, IF the
tearout is really bad or the wood is punky. Baring that, get your gouge
work down and practice taking really light cuts to finish.

Also, you may have tons of claro lying around, but I am cheap (married a
"down-easter Scot) and have found that pine 1x's, glued up into a stack,
with the grain alternating direction (each 90degrees to the one below it)
makes a real good, and cheap practice piece.

Deb

"Dr. Deb" wrote in message
...
Vic Baron wrote:

I'm starting to try my hand at small faceplate cups or bowls - nothing
over 4" diameter and 3" deep yet.

Having a problem getting a smooth finish on the interior of the bowl.
Don't have the hang of getting a smooth cut on the inside walls with a
gouge so I use various round scrapers. This gives me some rough areas
where there is end grain. Can't seem to simply sand it out. Do I just
need
more practice or is there something I've missed.

Mainly using claro walnut burl, maple and even some pine test pieces -
same result - rough spots on the inner and sometimes outer walls where
there is end grain. I buy the waxed blanks from various places and the
wood is usually from damp to wet, if that makes any difference.

Thanx,

Vic


Vic, as everyone else has said, "The gouge needs to be sharp." That does
not mean you need to be able to shave with it or that the little microbes
go
"eak, eak" when you breathe on it. But it needs to feel sharp when you
run
your finger across it.

I have found using the gouge inverted to a 120degree angle and making
light
scrapes with it, will clean a lot of the tear out up. Then there is
always
shellac, thin CA glue, wax (which I have not used, or even thought of -
will
have to give it a try) or MinWax Woodhardner to stablize the grain, IF the
tearout is really bad or the wood is punky. Baring that, get your gouge
work down and practice taking really light cuts to finish.

Also, you may have tons of claro lying around, but I am cheap (married a
"down-easter Scot) and have found that pine 1x's, glued up into a stack,
with the grain alternating direction (each 90degrees to the one below it)
makes a real good, and cheap practice piece.

Deb


LOL! I understand. I do the same with the pine but every now and then I want
to try something pretty so I'll buy a chunk of claro and turn away. I still
have lots of pine blanks that I'll be working on. I'll have to try that
scraping with the gouge.

As to sharp - my regular wood chisels I can shave with, literally, but the
turning tools aren't that bad. I'm getting the feel of being able to tell
when I've lost the edge on a tool and am pushing harder for the same cut.
I'm also getting pretty good at touching them up on the grinder and a quick
hone and back to work. I'm getting better with the "feel" of the gouge on
the work but that's where I need to work on a lighter touch. I'm still
clutching the gouge expecting a catch that will rip it from my poor tired
fingers. Need to lighten up a bit but remain firm. Working on it.

Thanx for the guidance!

Vic

In article ,
"Vic Baron" wrote:



Bottom to top - you mean center to rim?

When I hollow the bowl I always work toward the center, scooping more each
time. So you are saying that the smoothing cuts be made in the reverse
direction?

Me, I always say you need to cut with supported wood. The "rule" is
down hill. The problem is, down hill is sometimes "up"

Think about how the grain is presented to the tool, if the wood you
are cutting is supported by the wood about to be cut, you are cutting on
supported wood.

Which means, on the inside, cutting from the rim to the center.

I'm betting your problem is you are falling off the bevel of the
gouge, when you reach the bottom of the bowl. This is NOT unusual

If you have PBS-Create watch tonight's (8PM Eastern and Pacific) of
Woodturning Workshop. (repeat Friday at 2AM). Stuart Batty mentions
needing a steeper gouge for the bottom

Back to the original question. The answer is YES, which ever works for
you. I know serious production turners that only use scrappers and can
turn out a bowl faster then you want to think about. I also know
production turners that turn out a bowl without ever touching anything
but a bowl gouge. But then I also know turners that use only Hook
chisels and are just as fast.

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv

On 1/5/2012 4:30 PM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In ,
"Vic wrote:



Bottom to top - you mean center to rim?

When I hollow the bowl I always work toward the center, scooping more each
time. So you are saying that the smoothing cuts be made in the reverse
direction?

Me, I always say you need to cut with supported wood. The "rule" is
down hill. The problem is, down hill is sometimes "up"

Think about how the grain is presented to the tool, if the wood you
are cutting is supported by the wood about to be cut, you are cutting on
supported wood.

Which means, on the inside, cutting from the rim to the center.

I'm betting your problem is you are falling off the bevel of the
gouge, when you reach the bottom of the bowl. This is NOT unusual

If you have PBS-Create watch tonight's (8PM Eastern and Pacific) of
Woodturning Workshop. (repeat Friday at 2AM). Stuart Batty mentions
needing a steeper gouge for the bottom

Back to the original question. The answer is YES, which ever works for
you. I know serious production turners that only use scrappers and can
turn out a bowl faster then you want to think about. I also know
production turners that turn out a bowl without ever touching anything
but a bowl gouge. But then I also know turners that use only Hook
chisels and are just as fast.


what Ralph says is correct, however, I find that a shearing cut from the
bottom to the edge is a good way to smooth out ripples and tear out -
this is not a ride the bevel cut, the U of the gouge faces the wood, the
bottom edge (fingernail grind) is shear scraping, and you are using VERY
light pressure.

On 1/5/2012 3:41 PM, Vic Baron wrote:


"Dr. Deb" wrote in message
...
Vic Baron wrote:

I'm starting to try my hand at small faceplate cups or bowls - nothing
over 4" diameter and 3" deep yet.

Having a problem getting a smooth finish on the interior of the bowl.
Don't have the hang of getting a smooth cut on the inside walls with a
gouge so I use various round scrapers. This gives me some rough areas
where there is end grain. Can't seem to simply sand it out. Do I just
need
more practice or is there something I've missed.

Mainly using claro walnut burl, maple and even some pine test pieces -
same result - rough spots on the inner and sometimes outer walls where
there is end grain. I buy the waxed blanks from various places and the
wood is usually from damp to wet, if that makes any difference.

Thanx,

Vic


Vic, as everyone else has said, "The gouge needs to be sharp." That does
not mean you need to be able to shave with it or that the little
microbes go
"eak, eak" when you breathe on it. But it needs to feel sharp when you
run
your finger across it.

I have found using the gouge inverted to a 120degree angle and making
light
scrapes with it, will clean a lot of the tear out up. Then there is
always
shellac, thin CA glue, wax (which I have not used, or even thought of
- will
have to give it a try) or MinWax Woodhardner to stablize the grain, IF
the
tearout is really bad or the wood is punky. Baring that, get your gouge
work down and practice taking really light cuts to finish.

Also, you may have tons of claro lying around, but I am cheap (married a
"down-easter Scot) and have found that pine 1x's, glued up into a stack,
with the grain alternating direction (each 90degrees to the one below it)
makes a real good, and cheap practice piece.

Deb


LOL! I understand. I do the same with the pine but every now and then I
want to try something pretty so I'll buy a chunk of claro and turn away.
I still have lots of pine blanks that I'll be working on. I'll have to
try that scraping with the gouge.

As to sharp - my regular wood chisels I can shave with, literally, but
the turning tools aren't that bad. I'm getting the feel of being able to
tell when I've lost the edge on a tool and am pushing harder for the
same cut. I'm also getting pretty good at touching them up on the
grinder and a quick hone and back to work. I'm getting better with the
"feel" of the gouge on the work but that's where I need to work on a
lighter touch. I'm still clutching the gouge expecting a catch that will
rip it from my poor tired fingers. Need to lighten up a bit but
remain firm. Working on it.

Thanx for the guidance!

Vic

soren berger does a great demo with a HUGE roughing gouge on the outside
of some random piece of wood - he holds it with one finger and lays a
long continuous ribbon of wood onto whomever he wants sitting in the
front row of the audience. The point he is making is that it is
control, not brute force that does the work.

Vic Baron wrote:

I'm starting to try my hand at small faceplate cups or bowls - nothing
over 4" diameter and 3" deep yet.

Having a problem getting a smooth finish on the interior of the bowl.
Don't have the hang of getting a smooth cut on the inside walls with a
gouge so I use various round scrapers. This gives me some rough areas
where there is end grain. Can't seem to simply sand it out. Do I just need
more practice or is there something I've missed.

Mainly using claro walnut burl, maple and even some pine test pieces -
same result - rough spots on the inner and sometimes outer walls where
there is end grain. I buy the waxed blanks from various places and the
wood is usually from damp to wet, if that makes any difference.

Thanx,

Vic






BTW, there is a REASON sharpening jigs are so popular with bowl turners. If
you do not have one, Woodcraft has their slow speed 8" grinder on sale and a
"Wolverine" style jig coupled with that pays for itself rather quickly.

I hand sharpened for a few years, thinking I could do a job that was "good
enough." The truth is, I did not do a bad job at all. Then I got the
grinder and jig and wondered why I had waited soooo long.

Just a thought.

Deb

"Bill" wrote in message
...
On 1/5/2012 4:30 PM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In ,
"Vic wrote:



Bottom to top - you mean center to rim?

When I hollow the bowl I always work toward the center, scooping more
each
time. So you are saying that the smoothing cuts be made in the reverse
direction?

Me, I always say you need to cut with supported wood. The "rule" is
down hill. The problem is, down hill is sometimes "up"

Think about how the grain is presented to the tool, if the wood you
are cutting is supported by the wood about to be cut, you are cutting on
supported wood.

Which means, on the inside, cutting from the rim to the center.

I'm betting your problem is you are falling off the bevel of the
gouge, when you reach the bottom of the bowl. This is NOT unusual

If you have PBS-Create watch tonight's (8PM Eastern and Pacific) of
Woodturning Workshop. (repeat Friday at 2AM). Stuart Batty mentions
needing a steeper gouge for the bottom

Back to the original question. The answer is YES, which ever works for
you. I know serious production turners that only use scrappers and can
turn out a bowl faster then you want to think about. I also know
production turners that turn out a bowl without ever touching anything
but a bowl gouge. But then I also know turners that use only Hook
chisels and are just as fast.


what Ralph says is correct, however, I find that a shearing cut from the
bottom to the edge is a good way to smooth out ripples and tear out - this
is not a ride the bevel cut, the U of the gouge faces the wood, the bottom
edge (fingernail grind) is shear scraping, and you are using VERY light
pressure.

So would this be what is sometimes described in the books as a "pull" cut?

"Dr. Deb" wrote in message
...
Vic Baron wrote:

I'm starting to try my hand at small faceplate cups or bowls - nothing
over 4" diameter and 3" deep yet.

Having a problem getting a smooth finish on the interior of the bowl.
Don't have the hang of getting a smooth cut on the inside walls with a
gouge so I use various round scrapers. This gives me some rough areas
where there is end grain. Can't seem to simply sand it out. Do I just
need
more practice or is there something I've missed.

Mainly using claro walnut burl, maple and even some pine test pieces -
same result - rough spots on the inner and sometimes outer walls where
there is end grain. I buy the waxed blanks from various places and the
wood is usually from damp to wet, if that makes any difference.

Thanx,

Vic






BTW, there is a REASON sharpening jigs are so popular with bowl turners.
If
you do not have one, Woodcraft has their slow speed 8" grinder on sale and
a
"Wolverine" style jig coupled with that pays for itself rather quickly.

I hand sharpened for a few years, thinking I could do a job that was "good
enough." The truth is, I did not do a bad job at all. Then I got the
grinder and jig and wondered why I had waited soooo long.

Just a thought.

Deb

Bought a Delta variable speed grinder and the Ellsworth jig from captain
Eddie. Also adapted a few jigs I had around. That part I have covered -
technique I am learning!

In article ,
"Vic Baron" wrote:


I'm also getting pretty good at touching them up on the grinder and a quick
hone and back to work.

Vic,

When you are going to use your bowl gouge to scrape with, sharpen it on
a 100 or 120 grit wheel, but do NOT hone it. When used as a scraper, the
burr does the actual cutting.

On 1/6/2012 8:20 AM, Vic Baron wrote:


"Bill" wrote in message
...
On 1/5/2012 4:30 PM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In ,
"Vic wrote:



Bottom to top - you mean center to rim?

When I hollow the bowl I always work toward the center, scooping
more each
time. So you are saying that the smoothing cuts be made in the reverse
direction?

Me, I always say you need to cut with supported wood. The "rule" is
down hill. The problem is, down hill is sometimes "up"

Think about how the grain is presented to the tool, if the wood you
are cutting is supported by the wood about to be cut, you are cutting on
supported wood.

Which means, on the inside, cutting from the rim to the center.

I'm betting your problem is you are falling off the bevel of the
gouge, when you reach the bottom of the bowl. This is NOT unusual

If you have PBS-Create watch tonight's (8PM Eastern and Pacific) of
Woodturning Workshop. (repeat Friday at 2AM). Stuart Batty mentions
needing a steeper gouge for the bottom

Back to the original question. The answer is YES, which ever works for
you. I know serious production turners that only use scrappers and can
turn out a bowl faster then you want to think about. I also know
production turners that turn out a bowl without ever touching anything
but a bowl gouge. But then I also know turners that use only Hook
chisels and are just as fast.


what Ralph says is correct, however, I find that a shearing cut from
the bottom to the edge is a good way to smooth out ripples and tear
out - this is not a ride the bevel cut, the U of the gouge faces the
wood, the bottom edge (fingernail grind) is shear scraping, and you
are using VERY light pressure.

So would this be what is sometimes described in the books as a "pull" cut?



geez - I don't know - maybe - it is a scraping cut, like using a
straight edge to shave and with a sharp tool you should get little wispy
shavings floating off the tool - it is really a finishing cut that is
useful to clean up ripples and tear out - I use that cut more on the
outside though, it's easier to get the right angles - if you were
nearby, I'd just show you

In article ,
"Vic Baron" wrote:



So would this be what is sometimes described in the books as a "pull" cut?



Not what I call a pull cut......

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv

On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 10:35:10 -0800, "Vic Baron"
wrote:

I'm starting to try my hand at small faceplate cups or bowls - nothing over
4" diameter and 3" deep yet.

Having a problem getting a smooth finish on the interior of the bowl. Don't
have the hang of getting a smooth cut on the inside walls with a gouge so I
use various round scrapers. This gives me some rough areas where there is
end grain. Can't seem to simply sand it out. Do I just need more practice or
is there something I've missed.

Mainly using claro walnut burl, maple and even some pine test pieces - same
result - rough spots on the inner and sometimes outer walls where there is
end grain. I buy the waxed blanks from various places and the wood is
usually from damp to wet, if that makes any difference.

Thanx,


I am a relative novice at turning. I have somewhat mastered the
scraper and sanding block. Maple end grain is ugly. But what I have
found to tame it is a goose neck card scraper. I can take off inch
long by .002" shavings. If it is really bad I sand with 36 grit
sandpaper at slow speed and use the card scraper to remove the grooves
left by the sandpaper. I seem to have no problem with the spalted
maple. The other solution is segmented turning.

Ray
Vic

Someone once told me that if you learn to ski on your own you'll end up
practicing your mistakes. I think the same applies to wood turning.

The real answer to learning to turn using the various tools is to take a
course from someone knows what they are doing. I was very fortunate to have
the late Joe Basha of Pasadena as my mentor. He was patient, always
emphasizing safety and there was no rushing into something. We listened. we
learned, we practiced and all the time that wonderfull guy was there to
help - even outside the class hours. No one went right into Level 11. You
had to do level 1 with him first - and I learned why after doing level 11
(which I waited three years for). It was a progression and I'm still
learning.

In the end the tutoring from Joe paid off. It was worth every cent.

BTW - Plenty of good videos on You Tube on turning/sharpening etc/how to -
etc. Take a look.


Keith P.
Corner Brook