Thanks for the information and input it helped me make some choices.
I've discounted both Chinese and the Great Neck tools. I leaning toward
either a Hamlet or Crown 3/4" Roughing gouge, either Hamlet, Crown or
possibly P&N 1/2" Bowl gouges. Hamlet, Crown or P&N 1/2" spindle
gouges. Price wise the P&N's are the most reasonable but require
handles. I'm considering buying one handle (wood) to use as a template
and making my own using Oneway's Thread-Loc system. One thing I've seen
about the P&N tools is that they may require sharping before use. I
don't know if this is true if it is I would have to have it done at my
local Woodcraft store which would add to the overall cost as I don't
have a way to do it now. This might push me toward the Hamlet or Crown
tools. I've also looked at Thompson lathe tools very nice and within
reason. One other question some of the gouges are not to be used on
bowls. I know that your suppose to use a bowl gouge across the face and
to turn the inside but what do you rough the outside with? Thanks. Jim
in ID

--

On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 11:26:31 -0600, James wrote:

One thing I've seen about the P&N
tools is that they may require sharping before use. I don't know if this
is true if it is I would have to have it done at my local Woodcraft
store which would add to the overall cost as I don't have a way to do it
now. This might push me toward the Hamlet or Crown tools. I've also
looked at Thompson lathe tools very nice and within reason.

There are a lot of folks on this group that know more than I do, but I
always thought any brand required sharpening, with the exception of the
carbide tooling. Am I wrong?

And the term should probably be "honing", not "sharpening".

One other
question some of the gouges are not to be used on bowls. I know that
your suppose to use a bowl gouge across the face and to turn the inside
but what do you rough the outside with?

A bowl gouge :-). Or one of the aforesaid carbide roughers. Or a
scraper. Or a spindle gouge. Just *don't* use a roughing gouge. You
stand a good chance of snapping it off at the tang - DAMHIKT.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

In article , James
wrote:

One thing I've seen
about the P&N tools is that they may require sharping before use. I
don't know if this is true if it is I would have to have it done at my
local Woodcraft store which would add to the overall cost as I don't
have a way to do it now.

If you don't have a way to sharpen and hone your lathe tools you are
going to become very frustrated, very quickly. I recommend you delay
purchasing ANY turning chisels until you are able to perform this
necessary part of turning on your own.

--
Woodworking and more at http://www.woodenwabbits.com

On Jan 1, 9:26*am, "James" wrote:
Thanks for the information and input it helped me make some choices.
I've discounted both Chinese and the Great Neck tools. I leaning toward
either a *Hamlet or Crown 3/4" Roughing *gouge, either Hamlet, Crown or
possibly P&N 1/2" Bowl gouges. Hamlet, Crown or P&N 1/2" spindle
gouges. Price wise the P&N's are the most reasonable but require
handles. I'm considering buying one handle (wood) to use as a template
and making my own using Oneway's Thread-Loc system. One thing I've seen
about the P&N tools is that they may require sharping before use. I
don't know if this is true if it is I would have to have it done at my
local Woodcraft store which would add to the overall cost as I don't
have a way to do it now. This might push me toward the Hamlet or Crown
tools. I've also looked at Thompson lathe tools very nice and within
reason. One other question some of the gouges are not to be used on
bowls. I know that your suppose to use a bowl gouge across the face and
to turn the inside but what do you rough the outside with? Thanks. Jim
in ID

--

Hello Jim,

You've made a good decision to skip the cheap tools, because they do
not generally hold their edge for very long. However, you are missing
one thing, basically none of the tool are more than ground to shape.
They are not sharp when you purchase them. Secondly, tools require
resharpening often, so you need your own sharpening system. I've been
using the inexpensive 8 inch grinders from Woodcraft that come with
white wheels. The grinder is generally around $100.00, sometimes less
when on sale. For my Christmas present in 1999, I purchased the
Woodcraft eight grinder and the OneWay Sharpening jig. I've never been
sorry. The grinder is as much of a turning tool as the lathe and the
chisels.

If you happen to have a belt sander that will swing up vertical, you
can use it to sharpen tools. I did this for several years before
purchasing the Woodcraft slow speed grinder. It does work, but the
grinder with jigs is better.

Fred Holder
http://www.morewoodturning.net

Not sure its 100% wise to discount all Chinese tools. Harbor Freight
makes an 8 piece HSS set for spindle work. The High Speed Steel part
is the key. It has a 3/4" roughing gouge, couple scrapers, couple
skew chisels, and a spindle gouge. Two of the tools you want are in
this set. Plus scrapers are good for bowls. For starting up and
learning how to grind tools, its a fine set. Add a big bowl gouge and
you are pretty set. Big bowl gouge does both the inside and outside
of bowls. Scraper I guess could also do both inside and outside.

As others mentioned, you need a sharpening system as soon as you get
tools. 8 inch slow speed grinder with white friable wheels is good.


On Jan 1, 11:26*am, "James" wrote:
Thanks for the information and input it helped me make some choices.
I've discounted both Chinese and the Great Neck tools. I leaning toward
either a *Hamlet or Crown 3/4" Roughing *gouge, either Hamlet, Crown or
possibly P&N 1/2" Bowl gouges. Hamlet, Crown or P&N 1/2" spindle
gouges. Price wise the P&N's are the most reasonable but require
handles. I'm considering buying one handle (wood) to use as a template
and making my own using Oneway's Thread-Loc system. One thing I've seen
about the P&N tools is that they may require sharping before use. I
don't know if this is true if it is I would have to have it done at my
local Woodcraft store which would add to the overall cost as I don't
have a way to do it now. This might push me toward the Hamlet or Crown
tools. I've also looked at Thompson lathe tools very nice and within
reason. One other question some of the gouges are not to be used on
bowls. I know that your suppose to use a bowl gouge across the face and
to turn the inside but what do you rough the outside with? Thanks. Jim
in ID

--

Fred Holder wrote:

On Jan 1, 9:26*am, "James" wrote:
Thanks for the information and input it helped me make some choices.
I've discounted both Chinese and the Great Neck tools. I leaning
toward either a *Hamlet or Crown 3/4" Roughing *gouge, either
Hamlet, Crown or possibly P&N 1/2" Bowl gouges. Hamlet, Crown or
P&N 1/2" spindle gouges. Price wise the P&N's are the most
reasonable but require handles. I'm considering buying one handle
(wood) to use as a template and making my own using Oneway's
Thread-Loc system. One thing I've seen about the P&N tools is that
they may require sharping before use. I don't know if this is true
if it is I would have to have it done at my local Woodcraft store
which would add to the overall cost as I don't have a way to do it
now. This might push me toward the Hamlet or Crown tools. I've also
looked at Thompson lathe tools very nice and within reason. One
other question some of the gouges are not to be used on bowls. I
know that your suppose to use a bowl gouge across the face and to
turn the inside but what do you rough the outside with? Thanks. Jim
in ID

--

Hello Jim,

You've made a good decision to skip the cheap tools, because they do
not generally hold their edge for very long. However, you are missing
one thing, basically none of the tool are more than ground to shape.
They are not sharp when you purchase them. Secondly, tools require
resharpening often, so you need your own sharpening system. I've been
using the inexpensive 8 inch grinders from Woodcraft that come with
white wheels. The grinder is generally around $100.00, sometimes less
when on sale. For my Christmas present in 1999, I purchased the
Woodcraft eight grinder and the OneWay Sharpening jig. I've never been
sorry. The grinder is as much of a turning tool as the lathe and the
chisels.

If you happen to have a belt sander that will swing up vertical, you
can use it to sharpen tools. I did this for several years before
purchasing the Woodcraft slow speed grinder. It does work, but the
grinder with jigs is better.

Fred Holder
http://www.morewoodturning.net

I actually purchased a HF 1" vertical belt sander that I use on my old
tools. I probably can get away with it for a while. I also have a 8"
bench grinder but it turns at 3450rpm. Jim

--

On 1/1/2012 9:26 AM, James wrote:
Thanks for the information and input it helped me make some choices.
I've discounted both Chinese and the Great Neck tools. I leaning toward
either a Hamlet or Crown 3/4" Roughing gouge, either Hamlet, Crown or
possibly P&N 1/2" Bowl gouges. Hamlet, Crown or P&N 1/2" spindle
gouges. Price wise the P&N's are the most reasonable but require
handles. I'm considering buying one handle (wood) to use as a template
and making my own using Oneway's Thread-Loc system. One thing I've seen
about the P&N tools is that they may require sharping before use. I
don't know if this is true if it is I would have to have it done at my
local Woodcraft store which would add to the overall cost as I don't
have a way to do it now. This might push me toward the Hamlet or Crown
tools. I've also looked at Thompson lathe tools very nice and within
reason. One other question some of the gouges are not to be used on
bowls. I know that your suppose to use a bowl gouge across the face and
to turn the inside but what do you rough the outside with? Thanks. Jim
in ID


1. you need a grinder. no tool will be sharp when purchased. If
sharpened for you, it will be dull within 5 minutes of turning so it is
of no value. You can sharpen by hand with a stone but it is very slow
and frustrating. You can hone to restore an edge 2 or 3 times but then
it's back to the grinder. A used grinder can be had for $5 to $25, you
can make a sharpening jig for free

2. You can turn a whole bowl with a single tool, a bowl gouge with swept
back wings - I do it frequently. If I had only enough money for one
tool and a grinder, I'd get a 1/2 inch bowl gouge and grind it with
Raffan style swept back wings. If I could afford a second tool, I'd get
a parting tool. If I could afford a third tool, I'd buy sandpaper. I'd
make a Jerry Glaser style sharpening jig - a 2X2 about 4 ft long with an
an adjustable bracket on the end to hold the tool, and a point that you
stick on the floor - if that costs you a dollar to make, you aren't
scrounging very well.

3. don't waste your time on the thread-loc - just grab an old branch or
a broom stick and make handles - if the shape is uncomfortable, break it
off and make a new one. You can use scraps of copper pipe or EMT for
ferrules, or you can wrap the end with turns of bailing wire to make a
ferrule.

On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 17:19:04 -0600, James wrote:

I actually purchased a HF 1" vertical belt sander that I use on my old
tools. I probably can get away with it for a while. I also have a 8"
bench grinder but it turns at 3450rpm. Jim

If you put the white wheels on it it'll work fine.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

In article
,
Fred Holder wrote:

On Jan 1, 9:26*am, "James" wrote:
Thanks for the information and input it helped me make some choices.
I've discounted both Chinese and the Great Neck tools. I leaning toward
either a *Hamlet or Crown 3/4" Roughing *gouge, either Hamlet, Crown or
possibly P&N 1/2" Bowl gouges. Hamlet, Crown or P&N 1/2" spindle
gouges. Price wise the P&N's are the most reasonable but require
handles. I'm considering buying one handle (wood) to use as a template
and making my own using Oneway's Thread-Loc system. One thing I've seen
about the P&N tools is that they may require sharping before use. I
don't know if this is true if it is I would have to have it done at my
local Woodcraft store which would add to the overall cost as I don't
have a way to do it now. This might push me toward the Hamlet or Crown
tools. I've also looked at Thompson lathe tools very nice and within
reason. One other question some of the gouges are not to be used on
bowls. I know that your suppose to use a bowl gouge across the face and
to turn the inside but what do you rough the outside with? Thanks. Jim
in ID

--

Hello Jim,
expensive 8 inch grinders from Woodcraft that come with
white wheels. The grinder is generally around $100.00, sometimes less
when on sale.


Woodcraft has the 8" slow speed grinder with white wheels on sale for
89.99 thru Jan. 27th. Or they sell the white wheels individually for $
44.50 each. Which means that you get the grinder for .99. Not a bad deal.

On 1/1/2012 3:19 PM, James wrote:
Fred Holder wrote:

On Jan 1, 9:26 am, wrote:


Fred Holder
http://www.morewoodturning.net

I actually purchased a HF 1" vertical belt sander that I use on my old
tools. I probably can get away with it for a while. I also have a 8"
bench grinder but it turns at 3450rpm. Jim



Don't worry about the 3450 RPM, it will be fine, just use a very light
touch - the slow speed grinder just takes off metal more slowly (and
hence heats chisels less) - with a light touch you will be fine with
your current grinder. And don't bother with special wheels if money is
an issue, the standard gray wheels will work fine - get a scrap of
carbide from somewhere (like a broken carbide tool bit) so you can
square off the wheel if it gets a groove in it.

Jerry Glaser, who as you know was one of the foremost turning tool
makers, used a 3600 RPM grinder to form his tools. I have a slow speed
grinder, but I got it cheaply - what is more important is to make one of
the sharpening tools so you get a uniform shape - it's particularly hard
if you don't have a lot of experience, to freehand a fingernail grind,
so that's where the sharpening jig is really helpful.

try to avoid "turner's disease", in which you have to get all sorts of
tools - you will see that the professionals that are any good can make a
beautiful piece with just one or two tools, you don't need a room full.

On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 11:26:31 -0600, "James"
wrote:
Price wise the P&N's are the most reasonable but require
handles. I'm considering buying one handle (wood) to use as a template
and making my own.

P&N's are good quality and mine retain an edge for a reasonable
time considering that I am mostly turning Jarrah, which is quite
abrasive. Do not buy the P&N handle, I found them to be too short
and uncomfortable. Make your own and mark them for type, eg bowl,
spindle, parting etc. All mine fit in a carousel and only the
handle is visible so I rely on the colour code and position.

One of your best investments will be an 8" or preferably 10"
grinder with 80 & 120 grit white wheels ( some people prefer 60 & 100
grit ). I also have an inexpensive Tormek clone with a cloth wheel
at the high speed end for honing.

A good investment is a cheap set to learn to sharpen on, much
better to grind away a $3 chisel than a $40+ one while learning.
Strangely, I often use one of the cheapies when making pens or other
small spindle stuff.

Alan

wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 11:26:31 -0600, "James"
wrote:
Price wise the P&N's are the most reasonable but require
handles. I'm considering buying one handle (wood) to use as a
template and making my own.

P&N's are good quality and mine retain an edge for a reasonable
time considering that I am mostly turning Jarrah, which is quite
abrasive. Do not buy the P&N handle, I found them to be too short
and uncomfortable. Make your own and mark them for type, eg bowl,
spindle, parting etc. All mine fit in a carousel and only the
handle is visible so I rely on the colour code and position.

One of your best investments will be an 8" or preferably 10"
grinder with 80 & 120 grit white wheels ( some people prefer 60 & 100
grit ). I also have an inexpensive Tormek clone with a cloth wheel
at the high speed end for honing.

A good investment is a cheap set to learn to sharpen on, much
better to grind away a $3 chisel than a $40+ one while learning.
Strangely, I often use one of the cheapies when making pens or other
small spindle stuff.

Alan

Thanks for the info on the P&N tools. I've been giving them some
serious thought. I've narrowed my choices down to either a Croum or
Hamlet 1 1/4" roughing gouge, Crown or Hamlet 1/2" spindle gouge,
possibly a P&N gouge and either a Crown or Hamlet 1/2" bowl gouge and
maybe a P&N 3/8" bowl gouge. I'm going to purchase one of Woodcraft's
low speed grinders just before they go off sale. I have a 8" high speed
grinder right now. We have a local store here. I just finished building
a sharpening jig that is a Oneway Wolverine clone. I will have to
purchase the Oneway's Fingernail/Side Grinding Jig because it's a
little more complicated. I used to be a welder and metal worker. I'm
considering making aluminium handles that will interchange that way I
can adjust the weight as needed. I have the knowielge and skills plus
most of the equipment. I can practice sharpening on my old tools. Jim

--

On 01/06/2012 07:43 AM, James wrote:
maybe a P&N 3/8" bowl gouge. I'm going to purchase one of Woodcraft's
low speed grinders just before they go off sale. I have a 8" high speed
grinder right now. We have a local store here. I just finished building

No need to get a slower grinder. It's nicer perhaps, but once you get
your tools to the correct shape and start using a jig you only have to
lightly touch up the edge which shouldn't heat up the tool very much.
HSS steel can also take more heat than carbon tools w/o losing it's temper.

I've been using a 8" high speed grinder for years - it works fine.
You'll be well served to put decent wheels on it if you haven't already
though.

FWIW, Grizzly is having a sale on a Tormek grinder knockoff for $80 this
week. http://www.grizzly.com/ Slow speed, water stone grinder. Caveat
emptor, etc.


....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
"In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car."
- Lawrence Summers

Kevin Miller wrote:

On 01/06/2012 07:43 AM, James wrote:
maybe a P&N 3/8" bowl gouge. I'm going to purchase one of
Woodcraft's low speed grinders just before they go off sale. I have
a 8" high speed grinder right now. We have a local store here. I
just finished building

No need to get a slower grinder. It's nicer perhaps, but once you
get your tools to the correct shape and start using a jig you only
have to lightly touch up the edge which shouldn't heat up the tool
very much. HSS steel can also take more heat than carbon tools w/o
losing it's temper.

I've been using a 8" high speed grinder for years - it works fine.
You'll be well served to put decent wheels on it if you haven't
already though.

FWIW, Grizzly is having a sale on a Tormek grinder knockoff for $80
this week. http://www.grizzly.com/ Slow speed, water stone grinder.
Caveat emptor, etc.


...Kevin

The main reason that I'm getting another grind is that one lives my
welding shop and the other one will live in the woodworking shop. Jim
in ID

--

In article ions,
Kevin Miller wrote:

On 01/06/2012 07:43 AM, James wrote:
maybe a P&N 3/8" bowl gouge. I'm going to purchase one of Woodcraft's
low speed grinders just before they go off sale. I have a 8" high speed
grinder right now. We have a local store here. I just finished building

No need to get a slower grinder. It's nicer perhaps, but once you get
your tools to the correct shape and start using a jig you only have to
lightly touch up the edge which shouldn't heat up the tool very much.
HSS steel can also take more heat than carbon tools w/o losing it's temper.

I've been using a 8" high speed grinder for years - it works fine.
You'll be well served to put decent wheels on it if you haven't already
though.

FWIW, Grizzly is having a sale on a Tormek grinder knockoff for $80 this
week. http://www.grizzly.com/ Slow speed, water stone grinder. Caveat
emptor, etc.


Note, that is the 8 inch version, not the 10 inch

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv

In article ,
"James" wrote:



The main reason that I'm getting another grind is that one lives my
welding shop and the other one will live in the woodworking shop. Jim
in ID

My Grizzly long-shaft is in the barn, with the forge, etc. The other two
(wet and dry, Delta and Jet) are in the shop, with the lathe

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv

On 1/6/2012 10:06 PM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In ions,
Kevin wrote:

On 01/06/2012 07:43 AM, James wrote:
maybe a P&N 3/8" bowl gouge. I'm going to purchase one of Woodcraft's
low speed grinders just before they go off sale. I have a 8" high speed
grinder right now. We have a local store here. I just finished building

No need to get a slower grinder. It's nicer perhaps, but once you get
your tools to the correct shape and start using a jig you only have to
lightly touch up the edge which shouldn't heat up the tool very much.
HSS steel can also take more heat than carbon tools w/o losing it's temper.

I've been using a 8" high speed grinder for years - it works fine.
You'll be well served to put decent wheels on it if you haven't already
though.

FWIW, Grizzly is having a sale on a Tormek grinder knockoff for $80 this
week. http://www.grizzly.com/ Slow speed, water stone grinder. Caveat
emptor, etc.


Note, that is the 8 inch version, not the 10 inch


I have a real Tormek - they are great if you want a really nice edge -
for example when you are trying to shape rotten wood (which I do because
the colors are so pretty) - soft spongy wood needs really sharp tools
and the Tormek will give you that amazing edge - but it does it very
slowly - so I use it only when I really need a sharp edge - otherwise I
just use a grinder with a blue wheel