Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters.

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Default Burnishing a Scraper

The Lee Valley catalog came in the mail today, and so I'll probably
be up a bit later than I should be.

One thing I see, that isn't new, but I keep forgetting to ask about,
is a burnisher for turning scrapers:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266

I don't recall any discussion of this for turning tools, at least
not here. Does anyone have experience with burnishing vs. grinding
for scraper hooks and how they cut?

It sounds like something very quick (even quicker than spinning up
the grinder) to refresh.

I find scrapers very friendly to this (slow moving) newbie bowl
turner, and I'm tempted for a payday or two from now. (Of course,
the garage may be getting cold by then.)

--
|Drew Lawson | Of all the things I've lost |
| | I miss my mind the most |
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Default Burnishing a Scraper

"Drew Lawson" wrote in message
...
The Lee Valley catalog came in the mail today, and so I'll probably
be up a bit later than I should be.

One thing I see, that isn't new, but I keep forgetting to ask about,
is a burnisher for turning scrapers:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266

I don't recall any discussion of this for turning tools, at least
not here. Does anyone have experience with burnishing vs. grinding
for scraper hooks and how they cut?

It sounds like something very quick (even quicker than spinning up
the grinder) to refresh.

I find scrapers very friendly to this (slow moving) newbie bowl
turner, and I'm tempted for a payday or two from now. (Of course,
the garage may be getting cold by then.)



Why wait. I use a heavy Phillips head screwdriver - round shank - clamp
scraper in vise and burnish. Getting the proper angle is what the LV tool
gets you. Patience and practice can get you that.

--
"I'm the man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo ..."

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Default Burnishing a Scraper

On 9/13/2011 6:56 PM, Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Drew Lawson" wrote in message
...
The Lee Valley catalog came in the mail today, and so I'll probably
be up a bit later than I should be.

One thing I see, that isn't new, but I keep forgetting to ask about,
is a burnisher for turning scrapers:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266

I don't recall any discussion of this for turning tools, at least
not here. Does anyone have experience with burnishing vs. grinding
for scraper hooks and how they cut?

It sounds like something very quick (even quicker than spinning up
the grinder) to refresh.

I find scrapers very friendly to this (slow moving) newbie bowl
turner, and I'm tempted for a payday or two from now. (Of course,
the garage may be getting cold by then.)



Why wait. I use a heavy Phillips head screwdriver - round shank - clamp
scraper in vise and burnish. Getting the proper angle is what the LV
tool gets you. Patience and practice can get you that.


if that burnishing tool is the aluminum plate with a couple of pins
sticking up, it works, but you could save $$ by just driving a couple of
concrete nails into a board and using them - you don't need that tool to
roll an edge on your scraper

And, you should probably avoid a scraper on the inside of bowls - it's a
great way to get amazingly spectacular catches - much worse than using a
gouge
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Default Burnishing a Scraper

Drew Lawson wrote:
The Lee Valley catalog came in the mail today, and so I'll probably
be up a bit later than I should be.

One thing I see, that isn't new, but I keep forgetting to ask about,
is a burnisher for turning scrapers:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266

I don't recall any discussion of this for turning tools, at least
not here. Does anyone have experience with burnishing vs. grinding
for scraper hooks and how they cut?

It sounds like something very quick (even quicker than spinning up
the grinder) to refresh.

I find scrapers very friendly to this (slow moving) newbie bowl
turner, and I'm tempted for a payday or two from now. (Of course,
the garage may be getting cold by then.)

I have tried both ways, and get more catches using a burnished hook.
Maybe I need more practice.

--
Gerald Ross

Mornings have no mercy.






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Default Burnishing a Scraper

In article ,
Bill wrote:



if that burnishing tool is the aluminum plate with a couple of pins
sticking up, it works, but you could save $$ by just driving a couple of
concrete nails into a board and using them - you don't need that tool to
roll an edge on your scraper

And, you should probably avoid a scraper on the inside of bowls - it's a
great way to get amazingly spectacular catches - much worse than using a
gouge


Or not.... The key to scraping (inside or out) is a single, small
point of contact. Real easy to get a long contact point (or even two)
when inside (just like scraping the inside of a hollow form)

Personally I also often shear-scrape the final cuts

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
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Default Burnishing a Scraper

In article
"Lobby Dosser" writes:
"Drew Lawson" wrote in message
...
The Lee Valley catalog came in the mail today, and so I'll probably
be up a bit later than I should be.

One thing I see, that isn't new, but I keep forgetting to ask about,
is a burnisher for turning scrapers:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266

I don't recall any discussion of this for turning tools, at least
not here. Does anyone have experience with burnishing vs. grinding
for scraper hooks and how they cut?

It sounds like something very quick (even quicker than spinning up
the grinder) to refresh.

I find scrapers very friendly to this (slow moving) newbie bowl
turner, and I'm tempted for a payday or two from now. (Of course,
the garage may be getting cold by then.)



Why wait. I use a heavy Phillips head screwdriver - round shank - clamp
scraper in vise and burnish. Getting the proper angle is what the LV tool
gets you. Patience and practice can get you that.


Well, I really wasn't asking about the product so much as the practice.

Is there much of a difference in how the tool cuts?


--
|Drew Lawson | Of all the things I've lost |
| | I miss my mind the most |
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Default Burnishing a Scraper

"Drew Lawson" wrote in message
...
In article
"Lobby Dosser" writes:
"Drew Lawson" wrote in message
...
The Lee Valley catalog came in the mail today, and so I'll probably
be up a bit later than I should be.

One thing I see, that isn't new, but I keep forgetting to ask about,
is a burnisher for turning scrapers:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266

I don't recall any discussion of this for turning tools, at least
not here. Does anyone have experience with burnishing vs. grinding
for scraper hooks and how they cut?

It sounds like something very quick (even quicker than spinning up
the grinder) to refresh.

I find scrapers very friendly to this (slow moving) newbie bowl
turner, and I'm tempted for a payday or two from now. (Of course,
the garage may be getting cold by then.)



Why wait. I use a heavy Phillips head screwdriver - round shank - clamp
scraper in vise and burnish. Getting the proper angle is what the LV tool
gets you. Patience and practice can get you that.


Well, I really wasn't asking about the product so much as the practice.

Is there much of a difference in how the tool cuts?



Yes, Burnish.

--
"I'm the man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo ..."

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Default Burnishing a Scraper

On 9/15/2011 9:59 AM, tom koehler wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 20:25:12 -0500, Drew Lawson wrote
(in ):

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266


Well, I must admit my own vast ignorance. Never having even considered such a
concept, I had to take a look at the website link you provided. I beleive
this tool will work nicely, and provide the leverage needed to burnish a
cutting hook edge on the end of a lathe chisel ordinarily used for scraping
cuts. The problem is, that for a beginning turner, scraping technique is
radically different from the cutting or slicing technique. I use a scraping
technique in much of my own turning, as it allows me to tune up my cutting or
slicing efforts. I am not so skilled with gouge or skew that I can produce a
final finished contour with these.

Now, here you are, with your scraper chisel, with its newly turned hook burr
on the cutting edge, and you approach your spinning billet of wood in the
same manner as you would ordinarily do for a scraping pass. WHOCK! You just
got a horrendous dig as the wood caught about 3/8 of an inch of razor sharp
slicing burr all at once.

A cabinet scraper uses a burnished hook cutting edge to create satin smooth
finished surfaces. The technique though is a very particular scraping one,
done at a very slow speed compared to the relative high speed between rapidly
spinning wood and stationary chisel on a lathe.

If you do decide to burnish a cutting hook edge on the end of a scraping
chisel, be prepared to learn a different technique with it, because it will
not be the anywhere near the same as what you are accustomed to now.

tom koehler



the problem with scrapers is that it looks like you are supposed to use
them flat on the tool rest, but I have never gotten a good cut that way
- I turn them on edge so they form a shear cut - maybe 80 deg from
horizontal, that will with a sharp edge produce nice fine shavings and a
finish cut - but used flat, it is asking for tearout or the bit catch
tom mentioned above


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Default Burnishing a Scraper

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 01:25:12 +0000 (UTC), lid (Drew
Lawson) wrote:

I borrowed one for a couple of weeks and wasn't impressed with the
burnished "burr/ hook" produced..
Maybe if that was the way I learned to sharpen and use a scraper it
would be very cool, but I'm back to my old method..

I've dedicated a 1" belt grinder to the scrapers... It's set at a
negative angle so that I can put the scraper on the table "upside
down" and rotate it across the belt..
This seems to put a bit more burr on the edge than doing it "right
side up"..
As always, YMWV

The Lee Valley catalog came in the mail today, and so I'll probably
be up a bit later than I should be.

One thing I see, that isn't new, but I keep forgetting to ask about,
is a burnisher for turning scrapers:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266

I don't recall any discussion of this for turning tools, at least
not here. Does anyone have experience with burnishing vs. grinding
for scraper hooks and how they cut?

It sounds like something very quick (even quicker than spinning up
the grinder) to refresh.

I find scrapers very friendly to this (slow moving) newbie bowl
turner, and I'm tempted for a payday or two from now. (Of course,
the garage may be getting cold by then.)

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Default Burnishing a Scraper

On 09/14/2011 07:02 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:

Well, I really wasn't asking about the product so much as the practice.

Is there much of a difference in how the tool cuts?


I find it a bit grabbier. I also will hit the grinder after burnishing
a number of times. Just seems to cut better after being ground but the
burnish is a quick way to get a burr/hook back on.

As mentioned, you don't need the Lee Valley device - try it w/a
screwdriver or something first. If you like it, buy the Lee Valley
burnisher. If not, nothing lost.

Test on a piece of scrap, or early on when you still have enough wood to
recover if it misbehaves...

--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
"In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car."
- Lawrence Summers


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In article ,
Ralph E Lindberg wrote:

In article ,
Bill wrote:



if that burnishing tool is the aluminum plate with a couple of pins
sticking up, it works, but you could save $$ by just driving a couple of
concrete nails into a board and using them - you don't need that tool to
roll an edge on your scraper

And, you should probably avoid a scraper on the inside of bowls - it's a
great way to get amazingly spectacular catches - much worse than using a
gouge


Or not.... The key to scraping (inside or out) is a single, small
point of contact. Real easy to get a long contact point (or even two)
when inside (just like scraping the inside of a hollow form)

FYI (following up myself and replying again to Bill),

As I noted above, the key is a controlled point of contact. Yesterday
I finished 5 bowls, all of them using gouges and scrapers, but scraping
Not one catch in the process

Personally I also often shear-scrape the final cuts


and finished with shear-scrapes

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv
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Just musing,


I'm too lazy (read have forgotten how) to bother doing the math, but I
wonder how many linear feet of wood a burr scrapes per sec. when it
touches a bowl turning at any reasonable rpm. I doubt a fragile hooked
burr lasts long on a wood-turning scraper, but there's no doubt that a
burr seems to work for a period longer than expected. I wonder if the
effects of a burr that last any time at all are really due to improving
the edge and not the burr.


Anybody ever put a burr on the edge of a reversed ground bevel (on the
concave side) of a gouge (preferably an unused cheap carbon steel
spindle gouge) placed upside down with the wings resting flat on the
tool rest. Should provide a fixed angle of attack and a small point of
contact?? Much safer to do a thought experiment from my armchair and let
somebody else try it ....or not.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings



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Default Burnishing a Scraper

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 13:07:59 -0500, Arch wrote
(in message ):



Just musing,


I'm too lazy (read have forgotten how) to bother doing the math, but I
wonder how many linear feet of wood a burr scrapes per sec. when it
touches a bowl turning at any reasonable rpm. I doubt a fragile hooked
burr lasts long on a wood-turning scraper, but there's no doubt that a
burr seems to work for a period longer than expected. I wonder if the
effects of a burr that last any time at all are really due to improving
the edge and not the burr.


snipped the other part of Arch's query


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings




Let's see, now. We're dealing with a round thing, so that means we have to
use pi and either a radius or a diameter. I always struggle with the choice,
radius or diameter, so I get a little silly. One possible formula is Area
equals pi R squared. (Or is it Area equals pi D squared?)Then I say to
myself, "but that is silly, as everyone knows pie are round." In my world,
then, I know the formula is correct, A=pi x R squared.

That means for me, then, that circumference is pi times Diameter, and now my
dimensional choices are sorted out, and I can continue.

Surface speed will be an expression of the number of circumferences that pass
by the tool rest in a second. Consider then a spindle 4 inches in diameter,
turning at 300 RPM. In one second that spindle makes five turns (300 divided
by 60). The circumference of a 4 inch diameter spindle is 12.56 inches (3.14
times 4). It is too bad that a key number for round objects is not a round
number, itself. It makes things messy.

I digress.

At a rate of five circumferences per second, that means then, that the
surface of the spindle is moving at 62.8 inches per second, or just a tad
over five feet per second.

I'm a fairly sturdy guy, and can push a cabinet scraper with gusto, but I can
not scrape a five foot board in one second. Depending on the species of wood
I am scraping, and how much effort I am putting into that scraper, I might
have to re-do the edge of the scraper a couple of times before I am done, and
I am moving much slower than 5 feet per second. I am afraid that a hook edge
scraper tool on a lathe will not have a long life before needing a re-do.

One of the advantages of a cabinet scraper in "flat" woodworking is its
relatively broad area compared to a smoothing plane, for a final surface. In
wood turning, the contact edge of a hook scraper will be short, and I think
there is a likelihood of an uneven surface - a bunch of very fine and very
smooth grooves, side-by-side.

Respectfully submitted for your consideration,
tom koehler

--
I will find a way or make one.

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In article ,
(Arch) wrote:

Just musing,


I'm too lazy (read have forgotten how) to bother doing the math, but I
wonder how many linear feet of wood a burr scrapes per sec. when it
touches a bowl turning at any reasonable rpm. I doubt a fragile hooked
burr lasts long on a wood-turning scraper, but there's no doubt that a
burr seems to work for a period longer than expected. I wonder if the
effects of a burr that last any time at all are really due to improving
the edge and not the burr.


I figure the burr lasts 10 or maybe 15 seconds, thats all

Anybody ever put a burr on the edge of a reversed ground bevel (on the
concave side) of a gouge (preferably an unused cheap carbon steel
spindle gouge) placed upside down with the wings resting flat on the
tool rest. Should provide a fixed angle of attack and a small point of
contact?? Much safer to do a thought experiment from my armchair and let
somebody else try it ....or not.

I know a demonstrator that advocates something like that. He takes a 2
inch SRG, grinds it to a finger-nail. Then, with the flute down, grinds
a 70 degree bevel. When he is doing the finish cut on a bowl, he puts a
fresh burr on the gouge (only the left side, with the flute faces down).
He keeps the SRG level and cuts at a single point of contact

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv
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On 10/02/2011 06:37 AM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In ,
(Arch) wrote:

Just musing,


I'm too lazy (read have forgotten how) to bother doing the math, but I
wonder how many linear feet of wood a burr scrapes per sec. when it
touches a bowl turning at any reasonable rpm. I doubt a fragile hooked
burr lasts long on a wood-turning scraper, but there's no doubt that a
burr seems to work for a period longer than expected. I wonder if the
effects of a burr that last any time at all are really due to improving
the edge and not the burr.


I figure the burr lasts 10 or maybe 15 seconds, thats all

Anybody ever put a burr on the edge of a reversed ground bevel (on the
concave side) of a gouge (preferably an unused cheap carbon steel
spindle gouge) placed upside down with the wings resting flat on the
tool rest. Should provide a fixed angle of attack and a small point of
contact?? Much safer to do a thought experiment from my armchair and let
somebody else try it ....or not.

I know a demonstrator that advocates something like that. He takes a 2
inch SRG, grinds it to a finger-nail. Then, with the flute down, grinds
a 70 degree bevel. When he is doing the finish cut on a bowl, he puts a
fresh burr on the gouge (only the left side, with the flute faces down).
He keeps the SRG level and cuts at a single point of contact


What's an SRG?

--
Kevin Miller -
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
In a recent survey, 7 out of 10 hard drives preferred Linux
Registered Linux User No: 307357, http://linuxcounter.net


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In article ,
Kevin Miller wrote:

On 10/02/2011 06:37 AM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In ,
(Arch) wrote:

Just musing,


I'm too lazy (read have forgotten how) to bother doing the math, but I
wonder how many linear feet of wood a burr scrapes per sec. when it
touches a bowl turning at any reasonable rpm. I doubt a fragile hooked
burr lasts long on a wood-turning scraper, but there's no doubt that a
burr seems to work for a period longer than expected. I wonder if the
effects of a burr that last any time at all are really due to improving
the edge and not the burr.


I figure the burr lasts 10 or maybe 15 seconds, thats all

Anybody ever put a burr on the edge of a reversed ground bevel (on the
concave side) of a gouge (preferably an unused cheap carbon steel
spindle gouge) placed upside down with the wings resting flat on the
tool rest. Should provide a fixed angle of attack and a small point of
contact?? Much safer to do a thought experiment from my armchair and let
somebody else try it ....or not.

I know a demonstrator that advocates something like that. He takes a 2
inch SRG, grinds it to a finger-nail. Then, with the flute down, grinds
a 70 degree bevel. When he is doing the finish cut on a bowl, he puts a
fresh burr on the gouge (only the left side, with the flute faces down).
He keeps the SRG level and cuts at a single point of contact


What's an SRG?


Spindle Roughing Gouge

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv
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