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Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters. |
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#1
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Burnishing a Scraper
The Lee Valley catalog came in the mail today, and so I'll probably
be up a bit later than I should be. One thing I see, that isn't new, but I keep forgetting to ask about, is a burnisher for turning scrapers: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266 I don't recall any discussion of this for turning tools, at least not here. Does anyone have experience with burnishing vs. grinding for scraper hooks and how they cut? It sounds like something very quick (even quicker than spinning up the grinder) to refresh. I find scrapers very friendly to this (slow moving) newbie bowl turner, and I'm tempted for a payday or two from now. (Of course, the garage may be getting cold by then.) -- |Drew Lawson | Of all the things I've lost | | | I miss my mind the most | |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Burnishing a Scraper
"Drew Lawson" wrote in message
... The Lee Valley catalog came in the mail today, and so I'll probably be up a bit later than I should be. One thing I see, that isn't new, but I keep forgetting to ask about, is a burnisher for turning scrapers: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266 I don't recall any discussion of this for turning tools, at least not here. Does anyone have experience with burnishing vs. grinding for scraper hooks and how they cut? It sounds like something very quick (even quicker than spinning up the grinder) to refresh. I find scrapers very friendly to this (slow moving) newbie bowl turner, and I'm tempted for a payday or two from now. (Of course, the garage may be getting cold by then.) Why wait. I use a heavy Phillips head screwdriver - round shank - clamp scraper in vise and burnish. Getting the proper angle is what the LV tool gets you. Patience and practice can get you that. -- "I'm the man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo ..." |
#3
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Burnishing a Scraper
On 9/13/2011 6:56 PM, Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Drew Lawson" wrote in message ... The Lee Valley catalog came in the mail today, and so I'll probably be up a bit later than I should be. One thing I see, that isn't new, but I keep forgetting to ask about, is a burnisher for turning scrapers: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266 I don't recall any discussion of this for turning tools, at least not here. Does anyone have experience with burnishing vs. grinding for scraper hooks and how they cut? It sounds like something very quick (even quicker than spinning up the grinder) to refresh. I find scrapers very friendly to this (slow moving) newbie bowl turner, and I'm tempted for a payday or two from now. (Of course, the garage may be getting cold by then.) Why wait. I use a heavy Phillips head screwdriver - round shank - clamp scraper in vise and burnish. Getting the proper angle is what the LV tool gets you. Patience and practice can get you that. if that burnishing tool is the aluminum plate with a couple of pins sticking up, it works, but you could save $$ by just driving a couple of concrete nails into a board and using them - you don't need that tool to roll an edge on your scraper And, you should probably avoid a scraper on the inside of bowls - it's a great way to get amazingly spectacular catches - much worse than using a gouge |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Burnishing a Scraper
Drew Lawson wrote:
The Lee Valley catalog came in the mail today, and so I'll probably be up a bit later than I should be. One thing I see, that isn't new, but I keep forgetting to ask about, is a burnisher for turning scrapers: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266 I don't recall any discussion of this for turning tools, at least not here. Does anyone have experience with burnishing vs. grinding for scraper hooks and how they cut? It sounds like something very quick (even quicker than spinning up the grinder) to refresh. I find scrapers very friendly to this (slow moving) newbie bowl turner, and I'm tempted for a payday or two from now. (Of course, the garage may be getting cold by then.) I have tried both ways, and get more catches using a burnished hook. Maybe I need more practice. -- Gerald Ross Mornings have no mercy. |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Burnishing a Scraper
In article ,
Bill wrote: if that burnishing tool is the aluminum plate with a couple of pins sticking up, it works, but you could save $$ by just driving a couple of concrete nails into a board and using them - you don't need that tool to roll an edge on your scraper And, you should probably avoid a scraper on the inside of bowls - it's a great way to get amazingly spectacular catches - much worse than using a gouge Or not.... The key to scraping (inside or out) is a single, small point of contact. Real easy to get a long contact point (or even two) when inside (just like scraping the inside of a hollow form) Personally I also often shear-scrape the final cuts -- -------------------------------------------------------- Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read RV and Camping FAQ can be found at http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Burnishing a Scraper
In article
"Lobby Dosser" writes: "Drew Lawson" wrote in message ... The Lee Valley catalog came in the mail today, and so I'll probably be up a bit later than I should be. One thing I see, that isn't new, but I keep forgetting to ask about, is a burnisher for turning scrapers: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266 I don't recall any discussion of this for turning tools, at least not here. Does anyone have experience with burnishing vs. grinding for scraper hooks and how they cut? It sounds like something very quick (even quicker than spinning up the grinder) to refresh. I find scrapers very friendly to this (slow moving) newbie bowl turner, and I'm tempted for a payday or two from now. (Of course, the garage may be getting cold by then.) Why wait. I use a heavy Phillips head screwdriver - round shank - clamp scraper in vise and burnish. Getting the proper angle is what the LV tool gets you. Patience and practice can get you that. Well, I really wasn't asking about the product so much as the practice. Is there much of a difference in how the tool cuts? -- |Drew Lawson | Of all the things I've lost | | | I miss my mind the most | |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Burnishing a Scraper
"Drew Lawson" wrote in message
... In article "Lobby Dosser" writes: "Drew Lawson" wrote in message ... The Lee Valley catalog came in the mail today, and so I'll probably be up a bit later than I should be. One thing I see, that isn't new, but I keep forgetting to ask about, is a burnisher for turning scrapers: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266 I don't recall any discussion of this for turning tools, at least not here. Does anyone have experience with burnishing vs. grinding for scraper hooks and how they cut? It sounds like something very quick (even quicker than spinning up the grinder) to refresh. I find scrapers very friendly to this (slow moving) newbie bowl turner, and I'm tempted for a payday or two from now. (Of course, the garage may be getting cold by then.) Why wait. I use a heavy Phillips head screwdriver - round shank - clamp scraper in vise and burnish. Getting the proper angle is what the LV tool gets you. Patience and practice can get you that. Well, I really wasn't asking about the product so much as the practice. Is there much of a difference in how the tool cuts? Yes, Burnish. -- "I'm the man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo ..." |
#8
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Burnishing a Scraper
On 9/15/2011 9:59 AM, tom koehler wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 20:25:12 -0500, Drew Lawson wrote (in ): http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,49233&p=20266 Well, I must admit my own vast ignorance. Never having even considered such a concept, I had to take a look at the website link you provided. I beleive this tool will work nicely, and provide the leverage needed to burnish a cutting hook edge on the end of a lathe chisel ordinarily used for scraping cuts. The problem is, that for a beginning turner, scraping technique is radically different from the cutting or slicing technique. I use a scraping technique in much of my own turning, as it allows me to tune up my cutting or slicing efforts. I am not so skilled with gouge or skew that I can produce a final finished contour with these. Now, here you are, with your scraper chisel, with its newly turned hook burr on the cutting edge, and you approach your spinning billet of wood in the same manner as you would ordinarily do for a scraping pass. WHOCK! You just got a horrendous dig as the wood caught about 3/8 of an inch of razor sharp slicing burr all at once. A cabinet scraper uses a burnished hook cutting edge to create satin smooth finished surfaces. The technique though is a very particular scraping one, done at a very slow speed compared to the relative high speed between rapidly spinning wood and stationary chisel on a lathe. If you do decide to burnish a cutting hook edge on the end of a scraping chisel, be prepared to learn a different technique with it, because it will not be the anywhere near the same as what you are accustomed to now. tom koehler the problem with scrapers is that it looks like you are supposed to use them flat on the tool rest, but I have never gotten a good cut that way - I turn them on edge so they form a shear cut - maybe 80 deg from horizontal, that will with a sharp edge produce nice fine shavings and a finish cut - but used flat, it is asking for tearout or the bit catch tom mentioned above |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Burnishing a Scraper
On 09/14/2011 07:02 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:
Well, I really wasn't asking about the product so much as the practice. Is there much of a difference in how the tool cuts? I find it a bit grabbier. I also will hit the grinder after burnishing a number of times. Just seems to cut better after being ground but the burnish is a quick way to get a burr/hook back on. As mentioned, you don't need the Lee Valley device - try it w/a screwdriver or something first. If you like it, buy the Lee Valley burnisher. If not, nothing lost. Test on a piece of scrap, or early on when you still have enough wood to recover if it misbehaves... -- Kevin Miller Juneau, Alaska http://www.alaska.net/~atftb "In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car." - Lawrence Summers |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Burnishing a Scraper
In article ,
Ralph E Lindberg wrote: In article , Bill wrote: if that burnishing tool is the aluminum plate with a couple of pins sticking up, it works, but you could save $$ by just driving a couple of concrete nails into a board and using them - you don't need that tool to roll an edge on your scraper And, you should probably avoid a scraper on the inside of bowls - it's a great way to get amazingly spectacular catches - much worse than using a gouge Or not.... The key to scraping (inside or out) is a single, small point of contact. Real easy to get a long contact point (or even two) when inside (just like scraping the inside of a hollow form) FYI (following up myself and replying again to Bill), As I noted above, the key is a controlled point of contact. Yesterday I finished 5 bowls, all of them using gouges and scrapers, but scraping Not one catch in the process Personally I also often shear-scrape the final cuts and finished with shear-scrapes -- -------------------------------------------------------- Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read RV and Camping FAQ can be found at http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Burnishing a Scraper
Just musing, I'm too lazy (read have forgotten how) to bother doing the math, but I wonder how many linear feet of wood a burr scrapes per sec. when it touches a bowl turning at any reasonable rpm. I doubt a fragile hooked burr lasts long on a wood-turning scraper, but there's no doubt that a burr seems to work for a period longer than expected. I wonder if the effects of a burr that last any time at all are really due to improving the edge and not the burr. Anybody ever put a burr on the edge of a reversed ground bevel (on the concave side) of a gouge (preferably an unused cheap carbon steel spindle gouge) placed upside down with the wings resting flat on the tool rest. Should provide a fixed angle of attack and a small point of contact?? Much safer to do a thought experiment from my armchair and let somebody else try it ....or not. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#13
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Burnishing a Scraper
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 13:07:59 -0500, Arch wrote
(in message ): Just musing, I'm too lazy (read have forgotten how) to bother doing the math, but I wonder how many linear feet of wood a burr scrapes per sec. when it touches a bowl turning at any reasonable rpm. I doubt a fragile hooked burr lasts long on a wood-turning scraper, but there's no doubt that a burr seems to work for a period longer than expected. I wonder if the effects of a burr that last any time at all are really due to improving the edge and not the burr. snipped the other part of Arch's query Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings Let's see, now. We're dealing with a round thing, so that means we have to use pi and either a radius or a diameter. I always struggle with the choice, radius or diameter, so I get a little silly. One possible formula is Area equals pi R squared. (Or is it Area equals pi D squared?)Then I say to myself, "but that is silly, as everyone knows pie are round." In my world, then, I know the formula is correct, A=pi x R squared. That means for me, then, that circumference is pi times Diameter, and now my dimensional choices are sorted out, and I can continue. Surface speed will be an expression of the number of circumferences that pass by the tool rest in a second. Consider then a spindle 4 inches in diameter, turning at 300 RPM. In one second that spindle makes five turns (300 divided by 60). The circumference of a 4 inch diameter spindle is 12.56 inches (3.14 times 4). It is too bad that a key number for round objects is not a round number, itself. It makes things messy. I digress. At a rate of five circumferences per second, that means then, that the surface of the spindle is moving at 62.8 inches per second, or just a tad over five feet per second. I'm a fairly sturdy guy, and can push a cabinet scraper with gusto, but I can not scrape a five foot board in one second. Depending on the species of wood I am scraping, and how much effort I am putting into that scraper, I might have to re-do the edge of the scraper a couple of times before I am done, and I am moving much slower than 5 feet per second. I am afraid that a hook edge scraper tool on a lathe will not have a long life before needing a re-do. One of the advantages of a cabinet scraper in "flat" woodworking is its relatively broad area compared to a smoothing plane, for a final surface. In wood turning, the contact edge of a hook scraper will be short, and I think there is a likelihood of an uneven surface - a bunch of very fine and very smooth grooves, side-by-side. Respectfully submitted for your consideration, tom koehler -- I will find a way or make one. |
#14
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Burnishing a Scraper
In article ,
(Arch) wrote: Just musing, I'm too lazy (read have forgotten how) to bother doing the math, but I wonder how many linear feet of wood a burr scrapes per sec. when it touches a bowl turning at any reasonable rpm. I doubt a fragile hooked burr lasts long on a wood-turning scraper, but there's no doubt that a burr seems to work for a period longer than expected. I wonder if the effects of a burr that last any time at all are really due to improving the edge and not the burr. I figure the burr lasts 10 or maybe 15 seconds, thats all Anybody ever put a burr on the edge of a reversed ground bevel (on the concave side) of a gouge (preferably an unused cheap carbon steel spindle gouge) placed upside down with the wings resting flat on the tool rest. Should provide a fixed angle of attack and a small point of contact?? Much safer to do a thought experiment from my armchair and let somebody else try it ....or not. I know a demonstrator that advocates something like that. He takes a 2 inch SRG, grinds it to a finger-nail. Then, with the flute down, grinds a 70 degree bevel. When he is doing the finish cut on a bowl, he puts a fresh burr on the gouge (only the left side, with the flute faces down). He keeps the SRG level and cuts at a single point of contact -- -------------------------------------------------------- Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read RV and Camping FAQ can be found at http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv |
#15
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Burnishing a Scraper
On 10/02/2011 06:37 AM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In , (Arch) wrote: Just musing, I'm too lazy (read have forgotten how) to bother doing the math, but I wonder how many linear feet of wood a burr scrapes per sec. when it touches a bowl turning at any reasonable rpm. I doubt a fragile hooked burr lasts long on a wood-turning scraper, but there's no doubt that a burr seems to work for a period longer than expected. I wonder if the effects of a burr that last any time at all are really due to improving the edge and not the burr. I figure the burr lasts 10 or maybe 15 seconds, thats all Anybody ever put a burr on the edge of a reversed ground bevel (on the concave side) of a gouge (preferably an unused cheap carbon steel spindle gouge) placed upside down with the wings resting flat on the tool rest. Should provide a fixed angle of attack and a small point of contact?? Much safer to do a thought experiment from my armchair and let somebody else try it ....or not. I know a demonstrator that advocates something like that. He takes a 2 inch SRG, grinds it to a finger-nail. Then, with the flute down, grinds a 70 degree bevel. When he is doing the finish cut on a bowl, he puts a fresh burr on the gouge (only the left side, with the flute faces down). He keeps the SRG level and cuts at a single point of contact What's an SRG? -- Kevin Miller - http://www.alaska.net/~atftb Juneau, Alaska In a recent survey, 7 out of 10 hard drives preferred Linux Registered Linux User No: 307357, http://linuxcounter.net |
#16
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Burnishing a Scraper
In article ,
Kevin Miller wrote: On 10/02/2011 06:37 AM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote: In , (Arch) wrote: Just musing, I'm too lazy (read have forgotten how) to bother doing the math, but I wonder how many linear feet of wood a burr scrapes per sec. when it touches a bowl turning at any reasonable rpm. I doubt a fragile hooked burr lasts long on a wood-turning scraper, but there's no doubt that a burr seems to work for a period longer than expected. I wonder if the effects of a burr that last any time at all are really due to improving the edge and not the burr. I figure the burr lasts 10 or maybe 15 seconds, thats all Anybody ever put a burr on the edge of a reversed ground bevel (on the concave side) of a gouge (preferably an unused cheap carbon steel spindle gouge) placed upside down with the wings resting flat on the tool rest. Should provide a fixed angle of attack and a small point of contact?? Much safer to do a thought experiment from my armchair and let somebody else try it ....or not. I know a demonstrator that advocates something like that. He takes a 2 inch SRG, grinds it to a finger-nail. Then, with the flute down, grinds a 70 degree bevel. When he is doing the finish cut on a bowl, he puts a fresh burr on the gouge (only the left side, with the flute faces down). He keeps the SRG level and cuts at a single point of contact What's an SRG? Spindle Roughing Gouge -- -------------------------------------------------------- Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read RV and Camping FAQ can be found at http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv |
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