I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
carefully as I can to the audio.
In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue is
discussed.
---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular.
Most videos are shot by a videographer, I think, who doesn't really know
what's going on, and so, misses the points that a novice like me needs.
One example: the instructor says something like: "hold the gouge like
this". The video shows the instructor's fist clamped around the tool, while
the tool's business end is completely hidden by the hand.

I would quit bowl turning altogether, and switch to basket weaving, but we
have 70 acres of woods and lot of bowl blanks drying.

Is there any way an ordinary human can learn this skill without a live
tutor?

Pete Stanaitis
---------------

On 06/24/2011 06:54 AM, Pete S wrote:
I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
carefully as I can to the audio.
In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue
is discussed.
---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular.
Most videos are shot by a videographer, I think, who doesn't really know
what's going on, and so, misses the points that a novice like me needs.
One example: the instructor says something like: "hold the gouge like
this". The video shows the instructor's fist clamped around the tool,
while the tool's business end is completely hidden by the hand.

I would quit bowl turning altogether, and switch to basket weaving, but
we have 70 acres of woods and lot of bowl blanks drying.

Is there any way an ordinary human can learn this skill without a live
tutor?

Well, time and patience. You don't say which videos you've watched,
whether from a DVD or just on youtube. There are good commercial videos
out - one of my favorites is Turning Wood by Richard Raffan. Back in
the late 90s I watched it every night for a week then went out to the
shop to practice.

The best bet however is an actual live instructor. Check the AAW
website - there may be a chapter w/in driving distance. I'd be
surprised if you can't find someone near you to give you some pointers.

What in particular are you having trouble with?

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
"In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car."
- Lawrence Summers

Pete - I was a Raffan fan learning before retiring. Have to get back
to it someday.

Remember the inside edge - protected by a large rubbing area or face of
the tool. The face rubs the wood and you angle or twist the cutting
edge on-the-fly keeping the face on the wood and inside edge cutting.

Raffan loves green wood - he can really fly with it and get sprayed all
over with juice.

Martin

On 6/24/2011 9:54 AM, Pete S wrote:
I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
carefully as I can to the audio.
In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue
is discussed.
---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular.
Most videos are shot by a videographer, I think, who doesn't really know
what's going on, and so, misses the points that a novice like me needs.
One example: the instructor says something like: "hold the gouge like
this". The video shows the instructor's fist clamped around the tool,
while the tool's business end is completely hidden by the hand.

I would quit bowl turning altogether, and switch to basket weaving, but
we have 70 acres of woods and lot of bowl blanks drying.

Is there any way an ordinary human can learn this skill without a live
tutor?

Pete Stanaitis
---------------

Pete, the suggestion to go to the AAW website is a very good one, for two
reasons, a member in your area and even better a club in your area. Club
members LOVE to help beginners.

As far as any help here, the bowl gouge really is no different than a
spindle gouge, if you can handle one, you can handle the other. The rules
are exactly the same - rub the bevel. The difference is the angle you will
find yourself using on the inside of the bowl. Expect to, at times, have
the end of the handle of the gouge all the way over on the back side of the
lathe, just so you can get the cut started by easing the gouge into the face
of the blank.

A good rule of thumb is to turn a couple of bowls with shallow depths, just
to get the feel of the tool. Once you get that down, get more
experiemental.

Good turning


Deb



Pete S wrote:

I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
carefully as I can to the audio.
In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue is
discussed.
---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular.
Most videos are shot by a videographer, I think, who doesn't really know
what's going on, and so, misses the points that a novice like me needs.
One example: the instructor says something like: "hold the gouge like
this". The video shows the instructor's fist clamped around the tool,
while the tool's business end is completely hidden by the hand.

I would quit bowl turning altogether, and switch to basket weaving, but we
have 70 acres of woods and lot of bowl blanks drying.

Is there any way an ordinary human can learn this skill without a live
tutor?

Pete Stanaitis
---------------

On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:54:43 -0500, "Pete S"
wrote:

Look up "Bowl turning made easy" by Bill Grumbine..
That $30 video changed my turning.. Bill makes it look easy like the
others do, but explains how he does it, including angle, etc... Well
worth the money..



I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
carefully as I can to the audio.
In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue is
discussed.
---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular.
Most videos are shot by a videographer, I think, who doesn't really know
what's going on, and so, misses the points that a novice like me needs.
One example: the instructor says something like: "hold the gouge like
this". The video shows the instructor's fist clamped around the tool, while
the tool's business end is completely hidden by the hand.

I would quit bowl turning altogether, and switch to basket weaving, but we
have 70 acres of woods and lot of bowl blanks drying.

Is there any way an ordinary human can learn this skill without a live
tutor?

Pete Stanaitis
---------------

"Pete S" wrote in message
.. .
I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
carefully as I can to the audio.
In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue is
discussed.
---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular.
Most videos are shot by a videographer, I think, who doesn't really know
what's going on, and so, misses the points that a novice like me needs.
One example: the instructor says something like: "hold the gouge like
this". The video shows the instructor's fist clamped around the tool,
while the tool's business end is completely hidden by the hand.

I would quit bowl turning altogether, and switch to basket weaving, but we
have 70 acres of woods and lot of bowl blanks drying.

Is there any way an ordinary human can learn this skill without a live
tutor?

Pete Stanaitis
---------------
http://www.ellsworthstudios.com/david/schoolwood.html

In article
"Pete S" writes:
I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
carefully as I can to the audio.
In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue is
discussed.
---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular.

I have no advice to offer.

I'm just glad to see I'm not the only one. Spindle gouge is easy.
The dreaded skew chisel is no big deal. Scrapers are my favorite
for bowls.

But try a bowl gouge and I knock the piece out of the chuck.

Need to get back to trying that. . .


--
Drew Lawson | Savage bed foot-warmer
| of purest feline ancestry
| Look out little furry folk
| it's the all-night working cat

On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 00:03:56 +0000 (UTC), lid (Drew
Lawson) wrote:

In article
"Pete S" writes:
I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
carefully as I can to the audio.
In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue is
discussed.
---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular.

I have no advice to offer.

I'm just glad to see I'm not the only one. Spindle gouge is easy.
The dreaded skew chisel is no big deal. Scrapers are my favorite
for bowls.

But try a bowl gouge and I knock the piece out of the chuck.

Need to get back to trying that. . .

Try "sneaking up" on the wood...

place the gouge on the rest with the handle almost straight down and
the flute of the gouge facing the bowl or whatever.. You have 3 angles
to think about but the main 2 are angle of the tool to the work in
relation to the lathe bed and angle of the tool handle towards your
body... Most teachers recommend 45 degrees as a starting point for
both..
The "attack angle" will depend a lot on the grind type and angle, so
these would be atarting angles for an "out of the box' bowl gouge, not
a swept wing..
Sorry that I can't find the words to explain this better, feel free to
ask any questions that you come up with..

SLOWLY bring the handle up, remembering to keep the tip of the giuge
above center of the piece..
As you make LIGHT contact with the wood, gently turn the handle of the
gouge like a screwdriver until the cutting edge is making shavings..

In article ,
"Pete S" wrote:

I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
carefully as I can to the audio.
In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue is
discussed.
---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular.
Most videos are shot by a videographer, I think, who doesn't really know
what's going on, and so, misses the points that a novice like me needs.
One example: the instructor says something like: "hold the gouge like
this". The video shows the instructor's fist clamped around the tool, while
the tool's business end is completely hidden by the hand.

I would quit bowl turning altogether, and switch to basket weaving, but we
have 70 acres of woods and lot of bowl blanks drying.

Is there any way an ordinary human can learn this skill without a live
tutor?

Pete Stanaitis
---------------

I'm rusty at the moment (too much time building shop, very little time
actually turning, as the shop isn't done) but the best advice (other
than getting someone to show you, but then not regarding that as gospel)
I can give you for learning by yourself is to take some of your not-even
dry (or quite, quite green, even) wood, chainsaw it until you can get it
on a faceplate (more robust that chuck-mounting), and make shavings,
WITH NO INTENTION OF A USABLE RESULT. ie, approach it an attitude that
you are making shavings for smoking meat, or mulch, or something, rather
than "wasting a valuable bowl blank." Use some crappy trees or crappy
parts of trees. Crank through 10 a week, or 10 a day, or 10 a month,
depending how much time you have. You'll know when you can start
thinking about saving the result.

As best I recall, I mostly use the wing over almost flat ( I think it's
a fingernail grind - the one Glaser ships with) except when drilling in
to make the main hole, and I often just use a drill to make the main
hole, as it's much faster that way for a bowl shallow enough that you
can use a drill to do that, and then hollow from it.

I am mostly self taught. I've found plenty of things in books that don't
appear to make sense in practice, and I don't do things that way if it
doesn't work after I've tried it a few times, and something I've tried
does work better. Having a lot of firewood and being a bored teenager
with one TV channel (or none for the 4 years or so the TV was dead and
did not get replaced) and no internet and a long bike-ride from town
probably helped me learn in the beginning.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

I am just a weekend turner, but I was able take a wood turning class at
a local collage. I will never forget I was having problems when the
teachers aid came over when I asked for help. I went to hand him the
gouge and he said you do it. Next thing I know he reaches up to the end
of the gouge handle and moves and twisted just a little and the shaving
started flying. I am finding that wood turning is a touchy feely thing.
I would look for a club in your area and ask for help. Guys will fall
over themselves trying to help. Have them stand behind you and give you
that little assist. Once you feel it you will have it made. Once you
have that feeling go home and turn some practice bowls. As for me I did
not have a lathe and the next weekend I thought I would have it made,
but I lost it. It took almost the whole class to get that feeling back
and get in the grove. I just did not re-enforce that feeling to have it
cement in. Like the bike once you get it, you will not forget. Good luck

Bruce





Pete S wrote:
I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
carefully as I can to the audio.
In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue
is discussed.
---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular.
Most videos are shot by a videographer, I think, who doesn't really know
what's going on, and so, misses the points that a novice like me needs.
One example: the instructor says something like: "hold the gouge like
this". The video shows the instructor's fist clamped around the tool,
while the tool's business end is completely hidden by the hand.

I would quit bowl turning altogether, and switch to basket weaving, but
we have 70 acres of woods and lot of bowl blanks drying.

Is there any way an ordinary human can learn this skill without a live
tutor?

Pete Stanaitis
---------------

Pete, where are you located?

Dan

"Pete S" wrote in message
.. .
I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
carefully as I can to the audio.
In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue is
discussed.
---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular.
Most videos are shot by a videographer, I think, who doesn't really know
what's going on, and so, misses the points that a novice like me needs.
One example: the instructor says something like: "hold the gouge like
this". The video shows the instructor's fist clamped around the tool,
while the tool's business end is completely hidden by the hand.

I would quit bowl turning altogether, and switch to basket weaving, but we
have 70 acres of woods and lot of bowl blanks drying.

Is there any way an ordinary human can learn this skill without a live
tutor?

Pete Stanaitis
---------------

On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 9:54:43 -0500, Pete S wrote
(in message ):

I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
carefully as I can to the audio.
In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue is
discussed.
---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular.
Most videos are shot by a videographer, I think, who doesn't really know
what's going on, and so, misses the points that a novice like me needs.
One example: the instructor says something like: "hold the gouge like
this". The video shows the instructor's fist clamped around the tool, while
the tool's business end is completely hidden by the hand.

I would quit bowl turning altogether, and switch to basket weaving, but we
have 70 acres of woods and lot of bowl blanks drying.

Is there any way an ordinary human can learn this skill without a live
tutor?

Pete Stanaitis
---------------


Pete, have you done any other turning? I ask, because in spindle turning,
there are some basic cuts that are used - a scraping cut, and a shearing or
slicing cut. With the shearing or slicing cuts, the bevel of the chisel rides
on the surface of the wood, and then the chisel is raised ever so slightly to
let the cutting edge slice or shear the wood. If the chisel is cutting too
aggressively, the back end of the handle is lowered until the cutting action
stops. The chisel is still in contact with the wood, but riding on the bevel.
You can practice this touch with a gouge on the outside of a cylindrical
turning (spindle turning). You may dig in a few times, that's okay. You are
getting a feel for what it is like for the gouge to be "riding" on the bevel,
and either cutting or not cutting, depending on how high or low you have the
end of the tool handle.

Once you get the feel for controlling how the gouge cuts on a spindle, you
will then use the same feel on a faceplate type of turning. There is a
different kind of force working against you on a faceplate turning, though.
If you touch your gouge at the center of the faceplate, and it digs in, you
will immediately end up cutting a spiral groove from the center outwards. To
defeat this force, start at the periphery or rim of the faceplate, and work
towards the center. Now, to help you a little, set up for a scraping cut, and
make a shallow channel or groove about an inch in from the outer rim of your
faceplate piece. (This is kinda like training wheels on a bike.) The groove
provides a place for your bevel to ride, at the beginning of your project.
Just like you did on the spindle piece, let the bevel of the gouge ride on
that groove, just to see what it feels like. Now, slightly change the angle
of your tool handle so that the cutting edge can start shearing some wood.
Look for some you tube videos, to see what kind of tool angles are being
used. You will be intending to work from the periphery of the faceplate disc
towards the center. After a few passes your faceplate becomes a shallow bowl.
As others have said, this is a "feely" kind of thing. I cannot use a skew
chisel to shape a spindle piece, but I can use a gouge on a spindle piece. Go
figure. For me, a gouge is easier to control on a spindle project, as there
is only a very small amount of cutting edge that can possibly engage the
wood.
I have never had a live tutor. The nearest club for me would be forty miles
away, in a city I do not like to go to. I have managed to learn a few things
with a gouge, and I can make bowls. I don't have the touch for really thin
stuff, or heavily spalted wood, but I keep trying. I also have a wood stove
in the living room, and my dear wife likes wood shavings for her garden -
great mulch.

Best wishes,
tom koehler

--
I will find a way or make one.

I am in west central Wisconsin. 10 miles se of Baldwin Wi.

Pete Stanaitis
----------------

"djcordes" wrote in message
...
Pete, where are you located?

Dan

"Pete S" wrote in message
.. .
I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
carefully as I can to the audio.
In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue is
discussed.
---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular.
Most videos are shot by a videographer, I think, who doesn't really know
what's going on, and so, misses the points that a novice like me needs.
One example: the instructor says something like: "hold the gouge like
this". The video shows the instructor's fist clamped around the tool,
while the tool's business end is completely hidden by the hand.

I would quit bowl turning altogether, and switch to basket weaving, but
we have 70 acres of woods and lot of bowl blanks drying.

Is there any way an ordinary human can learn this skill without a live
tutor?

Pete Stanaitis
---------------

In article , Dr. Deb
debsmail@mon-cre wrote:

A good rule of thumb is to turn a couple of bowls with shallow depths, just
to get the feel of the tool. Once you get that down, get more
experiemental.

That's great advice, and exactly how I learned.

I was watching a youtube vid today about turning a natural edge bowl,
where he'd rounded the heel of his bowl gouge to effectively improve
the curve from bottom to wall... Neat trick.

In article , Drew Lawson
wrote:

But try a bowl gouge and I knock the piece out of the chuck.

Ride the bevel.

Gentle cuts... restrain your impatience.

Keep the damn thing SHARP. If you don't have a jig to do a proper grind
on your bowl gouge, then buy or build one. They're simple to make.

Given all of the above, sneak up on the wood, as Mac says. I won't
repeat his instructions, they stand on their own.

Thanks for all the input so far.
I got 3 inexpensive bowl gouges on Ebay. They all have about 35° bevels. I
guess my first step is the grind them to a lot less aggressive angle before
going at it again. I have seen recommendations all the way from 45 to 80°.
I will try about 70° for starters. I will also try to do the fingernail
grind that I see on youtube.
Metal turning has been my main use of a lathe for about 55 years. I
guess I am having trouble relating to wood- ie: holding the tools in my
hands.

Pete Stanaitis
---------------

On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:00:45 -0500, Pete S wrote
(in message ):

Thanks for all the input so far.
I got 3 inexpensive bowl gouges on Ebay. They all have about 35° bevels. I
guess my first step is the grind them to a lot less aggressive angle before
going at it again. I have seen recommendations all the way from 45 to 80°.
I will try about 70° for starters. I will also try to do the fingernail
grind that I see on youtube.
Metal turning has been my main use of a lathe for about 55 years. I
guess I am having trouble relating to wood- ie: holding the tools in my
hands.

Pete Stanaitis
---------------




At the risk of mentioning the very obvious, you will soon learn that wood
will impose its rules upon you, much the same as the various kinds of metal
impose their rules on the engine lathe worker. I wish you the best of luck as
you start this new adventure in turning. Be willing to make mistakes.
Whatever works is right. Protect yourself. Have a good 4th of July.
tom koehler

--
I will find a way or make one.

On Mon, 04 Jul 2011 12:00:45 -0500, Pete S wrote:

I have seen recommendations all the way from 45 to 80°. I will try about
70° for starters.

FWIW, our local sharpening guru swears by 60 degrees.


--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:00:45 -0500, "Pete S"
wrote:

Check out Steve's site.. Some excellent tips!
http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/

If you can, pick up an inexpensive bowl gouge like the ones Penn State
sells, like for about $25... Try it nd if you like it, duplicate the
angle on your other gouges..

As you progress, you'll find that most production turners use at LEAST
2 different angles, depending on how deep/shallow the bowl will be..

Thanks for all the input so far.
I got 3 inexpensive bowl gouges on Ebay. They all have about 35° bevels. I
guess my first step is the grind them to a lot less aggressive angle before
going at it again. I have seen recommendations all the way from 45 to 80°.
I will try about 70° for starters. I will also try to do the fingernail
grind that I see on youtube.
Metal turning has been my main use of a lathe for about 55 years. I
guess I am having trouble relating to wood- ie: holding the tools in my
hands.

Pete Stanaitis
---------------

On Jun 24, 7:54*am, "Pete S" wrote:
I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
carefully as I can to the audio.
In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue is
discussed.
* ---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular.
Most videos are shot by a videographer, I think, who doesn't really know
what's going on, and so, misses the points that a novice like me needs.
* One example: *the instructor says something like: "hold the gouge like
this". *The video shows the instructor's fist clamped around the tool, while
the tool's business end is completely hidden by the hand.

I would quit bowl turning altogether, and switch to basket weaving, but we
have 70 acres of woods and lot of bowl blanks drying.

Is there any way an ordinary human can learn this skill without a live
tutor?

Pete Stanaitis
--------------- *

Hello Pete,

You've received some good advice, the best being to find someone to
tutor you a bit. However, if that is not available, I would suggest
you go to my web site and download the sample issue of More
Woodturning available there. On page 32, I wrote a story called ,
"Making Bowls Fred's Way." That might be of help to you. The bowl
grind that I've used for a number of years is the Ellsworth Grind,
which has a 60 degree nose angle and swept back wings. There is a
picture of the grind in the article. The Ellsworth Grind works very
well on both the outside of the bowl and on the inside. The grind is
easiest to do with the Ellsworth Jig, which I believe is available
from Woodcraft, that is where I purchased mine a number of years ago.
I found that this bowl grind made turning bowls much easier. With the
60 degree nose, you can turn from the rim to the center of the bottom
of the bowl in one continuous cut. I suggest you read that article.

Fred Holder
http://www.morewoodturning.net/sample.pdf

Pete, Fred Holder had mention the Ellsworth grind, look on youtube and
search for Captain Eddie Castelain. He has a bunch of neet videos on
making and using wood turning tools. He has one to make the Ellsworth
jig. Take a few minuets to go and look to see what he has. You can
google his site as I would muck up his address. He also has PDF turning
notes that you might want to look at.

Bruce



Pete S wrote:
Thanks for all the input so far.
I got 3 inexpensive bowl gouges on Ebay. They all have about 35° bevels.
I guess my first step is the grind them to a lot less aggressive angle
before going at it again. I have seen recommendations all the way from
45 to 80°. I will try about 70° for starters. I will also try to do the
fingernail grind that I see on youtube.
Metal turning has been my main use of a lathe for about 55 years. I
guess I am having trouble relating to wood- ie: holding the tools in my
hands.

Pete Stanaitis
---------------