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What is the safest method to trim the excess from red oak 2 X 2 spindle
blanks before turning?
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On 03/29/2011 10:32 AM, Gary Kunstmann wrote:
What is the safest method to trim the excess from red oak 2 X 2 spindle
blanks before turning?


Safest? Hand plane. But I'd just mount them up and take off the excess
w/a roughing gouge, and not bother to trim them at all.

If I was to trim them, I'd proably do i ton the table saw. If you're
not comfortable doing that, the band saw would be my next choice.

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In article ,
Gary Kunstmann wrote:

What is the safest method to trim the excess from red oak 2 X 2 spindle
blanks before turning?


Safe how? Not cutting you fingers off safe, or not ruining your blanks
safe?

In the speedy but watch your fingers category, set up the tablesaw and
rip them into octagons. Given the timesavings on the lathe, this is
actually worth doing often enough, but you have to be able to use a
push-stick and set up tablesaw for it to be safe for you.

Jointer can also work and eat fingers, but is slower.

Safer for fingers - use a hand plane. Drawknife also works, but you can
split the blank if it has grain running the wrong way (or you cut the
wrong way, more like.) If clumsy you can also cut yourself with a
drawknife.

Build a router sled over the lathe and rough in with that.

Belt sand the corners off (but that involves dust and perhaps dulling
your gouges with grit on the wood, and it's slow.)

....or throw them on the lathe and use a roughing gouge....

--
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On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:32:21 -0700, Gary Kunstmann wrote:

What is the safest method to trim the excess from red oak 2 X 2 spindle
blanks before turning?


A band saw.

--
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In article , Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:32:21 -0700, Gary Kunstmann wrote:

What is the safest method to trim the excess from red oak 2 X 2 spindle
blanks before turning?


A band saw.

But why bother? It's so small anyway, just use a roughing gouge -- that's what
they're designed for.


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On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:32:21 -0700, Gary Kunstmann
wrote:

What is the safest method to trim the excess from red oak 2 X 2 spindle
blanks before turning?

IMHO, on something as small as 2x2, the only way is on the lathe..
A roughing gouge will round a 12" blank in a few minutes.. A carbide
tool in seconds..
My favorite roughing tool is the Bowl Pro:
http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm
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On 3/30/2011 2:02 AM, Mac Davis wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:32:21 -0700, Gary Kunstmann
wrote:

What is the safest method to trim the excess from red oak 2 X 2 spindle
blanks before turning?

IMHO, on something as small as 2x2, the only way is on the lathe..
A roughing gouge will round a 12" blank in a few minutes.. A carbide
tool in seconds..
My favorite roughing tool is the Bowl Pro:
http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm


I like a standard large roughing gouge which also works in seconds.
Large being the key.

Looking at the bowl pro, and some others, the business end looks like a
standard segmented planer knife that is on my grizzly planer. Looks
like a fun project to make one of those with one of my spare inserts. I
like the carbide idea, should last a while...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Inde...-10-Pack/H7319


or

http://tinyurl.com/3j3wek7

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com
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On 4/3/2011 6:05 AM, Jack Stein wrote:
On 3/30/2011 2:02 AM, Mac Davis wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:32:21 -0700, Gary Kunstmann
wrote:

What is the safest method to trim the excess from red oak 2 X 2 spindle
blanks before turning?

IMHO, on something as small as 2x2, the only way is on the lathe..
A roughing gouge will round a 12" blank in a few minutes.. A carbide
tool in seconds..
My favorite roughing tool is the Bowl Pro:
http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm


I like a standard large roughing gouge which also works in seconds.
Large being the key.

Looking at the bowl pro, and some others, the business end looks like a
standard segmented planer knife that is on my grizzly planer. Looks like
a fun project to make one of those with one of my spare inserts. I like
the carbide idea, should last a while...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Inde...-10-Pack/H7319


or

http://tinyurl.com/3j3wek7


1. beware of large roughing gouges - they take dramatically more skill
than a 1/2 or 3/4 inch gouge and can easily catch - just use a 1/2 inch
spindle gouge - for little blanks like that, if it takes you 30 seconds
to round them off with a 1/2 inch gouge you aren't doing it right

2. suggest you eschew carbide - it's not needed, it's brittle and it
doesn't take the type of edge you need for wood - use it if there is a
lot of grit or metal in the wood and you have to do a lot of cutting,
but otherwise just use HSS

--
www.wbnoble.com
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There is a lot of truth in the last statement.

I'm a wood and metal lathe guy and have a metal mill.

I can make most anything I want.

HSS is sharper and will cut like a knife edge.

Carbide is a more blunt edge - has radius and is intended for
loaded conditions.

The important thing about them is they will cut the so called Rose woods
of Central America - those loaded with silicon and we have them
up here in North America as well.

Any wood that dulls HSS carbide is good. There are M2, M42 (42
tougher!) and a number of other HSS. So if your regular skew fails,
switch to M2 or M42 skew first.

I like the 'indexable' inserts that are square, triangle, long triangle,
rounds and such. But have only used M42 so far on wood.

Martin

On 4/3/2011 2:26 PM, Bill Noble wrote:
On 4/3/2011 6:05 AM, Jack Stein wrote:
On 3/30/2011 2:02 AM, Mac Davis wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:32:21 -0700, Gary Kunstmann
wrote:

What is the safest method to trim the excess from red oak 2 X 2 spindle
blanks before turning?
IMHO, on something as small as 2x2, the only way is on the lathe..
A roughing gouge will round a 12" blank in a few minutes.. A carbide
tool in seconds..
My favorite roughing tool is the Bowl Pro:
http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm


I like a standard large roughing gouge which also works in seconds.
Large being the key.

Looking at the bowl pro, and some others, the business end looks like a
standard segmented planer knife that is on my grizzly planer. Looks like
a fun project to make one of those with one of my spare inserts. I like
the carbide idea, should last a while...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Inde...-10-Pack/H7319



or

http://tinyurl.com/3j3wek7


1. beware of large roughing gouges - they take dramatically more skill
than a 1/2 or 3/4 inch gouge and can easily catch - just use a 1/2 inch
spindle gouge - for little blanks like that, if it takes you 30 seconds
to round them off with a 1/2 inch gouge you aren't doing it right

2. suggest you eschew carbide - it's not needed, it's brittle and it
doesn't take the type of edge you need for wood - use it if there is a
lot of grit or metal in the wood and you have to do a lot of cutting,
but otherwise just use HSS

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Or you could buy some 2.75 in. oak dowels. Just kidding, Jack.


Best, Arch



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"Arch M" wrote in message
...


Or you could buy some 2.75 in. oak dowels. Just kidding, Jack.


Best, Arch



Somebody had to say it. Thanks, Arch!

LD

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On 4/4/2011 8:15 AM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In ,
Martin wrote:

There is a lot of truth in the last statement.

I'm a wood and metal lathe guy and have a metal mill.

I can make most anything I want.

HSS is sharper and will cut like a knife edge.

Carbide is a more blunt edge - has radius and is intended for
loaded conditions.

The important thing about them is they will cut the so called Rose woods
of Central America - those loaded with silicon and we have them
up here in North America as well.

Any wood that dulls HSS carbide is good. There are M2, M42 (42
tougher!) and a number of other HSS. So if your regular skew fails,
switch to M2 or M42 skew first.

I like the 'indexable' inserts that are square, triangle, long triangle,
rounds and such. But have only used M42 so far on wood.


You do leave some metals out of the list, but the only maker of M42
tools I know is Dave (D-way tools)


????? you mean kennemetal, valenite, and so on don't make M42?

--
www.wbnoble.com
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On 4/4/2011 7:10 PM, Bill Noble wrote:
On 4/4/2011 8:15 AM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In ,
Martin wrote:

There is a lot of truth in the last statement.

I'm a wood and metal lathe guy and have a metal mill.

I can make most anything I want.

HSS is sharper and will cut like a knife edge.

Carbide is a more blunt edge - has radius and is intended for
loaded conditions.

The important thing about them is they will cut the so called Rose woods
of Central America - those loaded with silicon and we have them
up here in North America as well.

Any wood that dulls HSS carbide is good. There are M2, M42 (42
tougher!) and a number of other HSS. So if your regular skew fails,
switch to M2 or M42 skew first.

I like the 'indexable' inserts that are square, triangle, long triangle,
rounds and such. But have only used M42 so far on wood.


You do leave some metals out of the list, but the only maker of M42
tools I know is Dave (D-way tools)


????? you mean kennemetal, valenite, and so on don't make M42?


to follow up, here are some sources for M42:
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...7002648&ucst=t

http://www.shars.com/products/view/2...quare_Tool_Bit

http://www.dbcindustrial.com/index.c...20M42%20Cobalt

there are many thousands more sources listed. Not one of the sources I
found was d-way.


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On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 09:05:32 -0400, Jack Stein
wrote:

On 3/30/2011 2:02 AM, Mac Davis wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:32:21 -0700, Gary Kunstmann
wrote:

What is the safest method to trim the excess from red oak 2 X 2 spindle
blanks before turning?

IMHO, on something as small as 2x2, the only way is on the lathe..
A roughing gouge will round a 12" blank in a few minutes.. A carbide
tool in seconds..
My favorite roughing tool is the Bowl Pro:
http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm


I like a standard large roughing gouge which also works in seconds.
Large being the key.

Looking at the bowl pro, and some others, the business end looks like a
standard segmented planer knife that is on my grizzly planer. Looks
like a fun project to make one of those with one of my spare inserts. I
like the carbide idea, should last a while...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Inde...-10-Pack/H7319

The Bowl pro has changed my turning, jack.. Unfortunatley, it's also
changed my teaching..
New turners can do things with this tool that take months or years to
learn with a bowl gouge.. No catches, smooth cut, fast wood removal,
etc..
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On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 12:26:50 -0700, Bill Noble
wrote:

On 4/3/2011 6:05 AM, Jack Stein wrote:
On 3/30/2011 2:02 AM, Mac Davis wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:32:21 -0700, Gary Kunstmann
wrote:

What is the safest method to trim the excess from red oak 2 X 2 spindle
blanks before turning?
IMHO, on something as small as 2x2, the only way is on the lathe..
A roughing gouge will round a 12" blank in a few minutes.. A carbide
tool in seconds..
My favorite roughing tool is the Bowl Pro:
http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm


I like a standard large roughing gouge which also works in seconds.
Large being the key.

Looking at the bowl pro, and some others, the business end looks like a
standard segmented planer knife that is on my grizzly planer. Looks like
a fun project to make one of those with one of my spare inserts. I like
the carbide idea, should last a while...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Inde...-10-Pack/H7319


or

http://tinyurl.com/3j3wek7


1. beware of large roughing gouges - they take dramatically more skill
than a 1/2 or 3/4 inch gouge and can easily catch - just use a 1/2 inch
spindle gouge - for little blanks like that, if it takes you 30 seconds
to round them off with a 1/2 inch gouge you aren't doing it right

2. suggest you eschew carbide - it's not needed, it's brittle and it
doesn't take the type of edge you need for wood - use it if there is a
lot of grit or metal in the wood and you have to do a lot of cutting,
but otherwise just use HSS


I think this is the first time I've disagreed with you, Bill!
The inserts (bought in a 10 pack) are $4 each and I've acently cut
through nails and barb wire with them and had to rotate them where my
bowl gouge would need reshaping..
I've spent years trying to perfect my sharpening and I can't get an
edge half as sharp as the carbide inserts..


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On 4/4/2011 11:11 PM, Mac Davis wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 12:26:50 -0700, Bill Noble
wrote:

On 4/3/2011 6:05 AM, Jack Stein wrote:
On 3/30/2011 2:02 AM, Mac Davis wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:32:21 -0700, Gary Kunstmann
wrote:

What is the safest method to trim the excess from red oak 2 X 2 spindle
blanks before turning?
IMHO, on something as small as 2x2, the only way is on the lathe..
A roughing gouge will round a 12" blank in a few minutes.. A carbide
tool in seconds..
My favorite roughing tool is the Bowl Pro:
http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm

I like a standard large roughing gouge which also works in seconds.
Large being the key.

Looking at the bowl pro, and some others, the business end looks like a
standard segmented planer knife that is on my grizzly planer. Looks like
a fun project to make one of those with one of my spare inserts. I like
the carbide idea, should last a while...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Inde...-10-Pack/H7319


or

http://tinyurl.com/3j3wek7


1. beware of large roughing gouges - they take dramatically more skill
than a 1/2 or 3/4 inch gouge and can easily catch - just use a 1/2 inch
spindle gouge - for little blanks like that, if it takes you 30 seconds
to round them off with a 1/2 inch gouge you aren't doing it right

2. suggest you eschew carbide - it's not needed, it's brittle and it
doesn't take the type of edge you need for wood - use it if there is a
lot of grit or metal in the wood and you have to do a lot of cutting,
but otherwise just use HSS


I think this is the first time I've disagreed with you, Bill!
The inserts (bought in a 10 pack) are $4 each and I've acently cut
through nails and barb wire with them and had to rotate them where my
bowl gouge would need reshaping..
I've spent years trying to perfect my sharpening and I can't get an
edge half as sharp as the carbide inserts..


very interesting - with a sharp HSS tool, I can get a fine finish that
needs little sanding, and with a 5/8 bowl gouge, I can peel out shavings
that are, well 5/8 wide by about 1/4 inch thick from wet wood before I
run out of lathe horsepower - they come out steaming - I can't do that
with carbide, I get tearout and poor finish. I do use carbide on my
metal lathe and mill, but even there I need to be careful that it is
sharp enough if I want a decent finish - I've made the comparison and my
results differ. And, yes, I've cut through nails with a bowl gouge, and
before I got my metal lathe, I used HSS gouge to cut steel and aluminum
with no problems (just had to keep speed down) - of course not with the
precision of a metal lathe, but it works - in fact if I want to shape an
elegant finial out of aluminum, I use a fingernail grind bowl gouge and
hold a boring bar in the cross-slide as a tool rest
--
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Bill Noble wrote:

On 4/4/2011 8:15 AM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:


You do leave some metals out of the list, but the only maker of M42
tools I know is Dave (D-way tools)


????? you mean kennemetal, valenite, and so on don't make M42?


I don't think that was his claim. I think his claim was about the
sources HE WAS AWARE OF that made M42 TOOLS (and from the context, I
assumed he meant turning tools for a wood lathe.) The sources you
provided do not appear to offer such tools.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.
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On 4/3/2011 3:26 PM, Bill Noble wrote:
On 4/3/2011 6:05 AM, Jack Stein wrote:


I like a standard large roughing gouge which also works in seconds.
Large being the key.

Looking at the bowl pro, and some others, the business end looks like a
standard segmented planer knife that is on my grizzly planer. Looks like
a fun project to make one of those with one of my spare inserts. I like
the carbide idea, should last a while...


http://tinyurl.com/3j3wek7


1. beware of large roughing gouges - they take dramatically more skill
than a 1/2 or 3/4 inch gouge and can easily catch - just use a 1/2 inch
spindle gouge - for little blanks like that, if it takes you 30 seconds
to round them off with a 1/2 inch gouge you aren't doing it right


This has not been my experience. My roughing gouge is 1 1/4" and I
bought it at a house auction 30 years ago. before that I used a
standard 1/2 roughing gouge. The difference was immediate and awesome.
I don't recall any learning curve other than how to hold the tool.

2. suggest you eschew carbide - it's not needed, it's brittle and it
doesn't take the type of edge you need for wood - use it if there is a
lot of grit or metal in the wood and you have to do a lot of cutting,
but otherwise just use HSS


I can't argue here, as I never used a carbide lathe tool, or anything
other than standard tools used 50 years ago. I know it's a pain keeping
razor sharp edges on my HSS tools. I keep seeing all these fancy insert
tools with carbide bits, and, since lathe work is more of an aside than
an avocation to me, I can't see me investing too much in tools for the
lathe, although using one of my planer inserts and making my own
interests me quite a bit, no pun intended:-)

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com
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"Ralph E Lindberg" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mac Davis wrote:



I think this is the first time I've disagreed with you, Bill!
The inserts (bought in a 10 pack) are $4 each and I've acently cut
through nails and barb wire with them and had to rotate them where my
bowl gouge would need reshaping..
I've spent years trying to perfect my sharpening and I can't get an
edge half as sharp as the carbide inserts..


Mac, I agree carbide is changing turning.

I rough with an EasyRougher now, the finish is terrible. But it takes
the bowl to round, with less pain and strain then even my largest bowl
gouge.

I recently bought a set of carbide tipped tools from Penn State (small
gouge, skew and parting tool). My wife uses these and I have found then
leave a good finish and I don't have to sharpen them as often as my HSS
(since she doesn't sharpen)


Sounds like a teaching opportunity!

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On 4/5/2011 7:59 AM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In ,
wrote:

Bill wrote:

On 4/4/2011 8:15 AM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:


You do leave some metals out of the list, but the only maker of M42
tools I know is Dave (D-way tools)


????? you mean kennemetal, valenite, and so on don't make M42?


I don't think that was his claim. I think his claim was about the
sources HE WAS AWARE OF that made M42 TOOLS (and from the context, I
assumed he meant turning tools for a wood lathe.) The sources you
provided do not appear to offer such tools.


Alexy, correct (Dave is a retired machinist )


here is one source for carbide, since that is also part of the thread
http://www.cetsonline.com/flyers/2011/april5.html
I get fliers from them on a pretty regular basis

--
www.wbnoble.com


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On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 08:06:26 -0700, Ralph E Lindberg
wrote:

In article ,
Mac Davis wrote:



I think this is the first time I've disagreed with you, Bill!
The inserts (bought in a 10 pack) are $4 each and I've acently cut
through nails and barb wire with them and had to rotate them where my
bowl gouge would need reshaping..
I've spent years trying to perfect my sharpening and I can't get an
edge half as sharp as the carbide inserts..


Mac, I agree carbide is changing turning.

I rough with an EasyRougher now, the finish is terrible. But it takes
the bowl to round, with less pain and strain then even my largest bowl
gouge.

I recently bought a set of carbide tipped tools from Penn State (small
gouge, skew and parting tool). My wife uses these and I have found then
leave a good finish and I don't have to sharpen them as often as my HSS
(since she doesn't sharpen)

I wonder if this is the same discussion that happened when HSS was being
introduced to replace HCS


I use the bowl pro, Ralph.. Same tool, about 1/2 price..
If you ignore the instructions about "directing the force onto the
tool rest" and make light cuts, you can get a very smooth finish,
especially with the radiased inserts..
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"Bill Noble" wrote in message
...
On 4/4/2011 8:15 AM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In ,
Martin wrote:

There is a lot of truth in the last statement.

I'm a wood and metal lathe guy and have a metal mill.

I can make most anything I want.

HSS is sharper and will cut like a knife edge.

Carbide is a more blunt edge - has radius and is intended for
loaded conditions.

The important thing about them is they will cut the so called Rose woods
of Central America - those loaded with silicon and we have them
up here in North America as well.

Any wood that dulls HSS carbide is good. There are M2, M42 (42
tougher!) and a number of other HSS. So if your regular skew fails,
switch to M2 or M42 skew first.

I like the 'indexable' inserts that are square, triangle, long triangle,
rounds and such. But have only used M42 so far on wood.


You do leave some metals out of the list, but the only maker of M42
tools I know is Dave (D-way tools)


????? you mean kennemetal, valenite, and so on don't make M42?


M42 woodturning tools?


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On 4/7/2011 7:38 PM, CW wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
...
On 4/4/2011 8:15 AM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In ,
Martin wrote:

There is a lot of truth in the last statement.

I'm a wood and metal lathe guy and have a metal mill.

I can make most anything I want.

HSS is sharper and will cut like a knife edge.

Carbide is a more blunt edge - has radius and is intended for
loaded conditions.

The important thing about them is they will cut the so called Rose woods
of Central America - those loaded with silicon and we have them
up here in North America as well.

Any wood that dulls HSS carbide is good. There are M2, M42 (42
tougher!) and a number of other HSS. So if your regular skew fails,
switch to M2 or M42 skew first.

I like the 'indexable' inserts that are square, triangle, long triangle,
rounds and such. But have only used M42 so far on wood.


You do leave some metals out of the list, but the only maker of M42
tools I know is Dave (D-way tools)


????? you mean kennemetal, valenite, and so on don't make M42?


M42 woodturning tools?



at the risk of seeming pedantic, I made the rather snide response to
call attention to the exact question you asked, which did not specify
wood working. If you go to any of the sources I posted in a separate
response, you will be able to buy tool bits in M42 - just grind them to
meet your needs - for wood working skews, gouges, etc, braze to the end
of a tool steel rod using a high strength braze alloy, or alternatively,
weld them (tricky process as I understand), and then grind to meet your
needs.

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On 04/08/2011 06:50 AM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In articlea72dne2GNsqd6APQnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@earthlink .com,
wrote:



M42 woodturning tools?


Yes

http://www.d-waytools.com/

Does he measure the shaft or the flute to determine the size? I.e., is
a 3/8" gouge made fro 3/8" bar stock or is the flute 3/8" wide?

Thanks...

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On 04/09/2011 06:57 AM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In icommunications,
Kevin wrote:

On 04/08/2011 06:50 AM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In articlea72dne2GNsqd6APQnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@earthlink .com,
wrote:



M42 woodturning tools?

Yes

http://www.d-waytools.com/

Does he measure the shaft or the flute to determine the size? I.e., is
a 3/8" gouge made fro 3/8" bar stock or is the flute 3/8" wide?

Fairly certain Dave uses the bar as his measure. I don't have any of
his Gouges so I can't say for certain (just his beading tools and
skews).
You could e-mail Dave and check for certain, he also hangs around the
Turners forum on SawMillCreek


Thanks. That's a good idea...

....Kevin
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Juneau, Alaska
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I too have a metal lathe and a
small horizontal mill and I can work to a fifteen thousanth.
(of a yard!)


I think a metal bit removes metal by making a series of tiny chips and
doesn't cut in the same way that longer bevelled thin edged turning
tools cut wood fibers. If so, do carbide edged wood turning tools cut or
scrape or crush wood or something in between?


Actually, I want to disparage carbide cause I hate to give up my paid
for hss tools, same as I hated to give up my hcs saying they could be
sharpened sharper, knowing that the edge didn't last very long.


All in all for now, I'll keep the grinder running and nearby and stick
with hss. BTW, I bought a carbide tipped turning tool set from AMT ovr
20 years ago. Like the International Scout & Travelall and Scotty's
they had the early market advantage, but didn't keep up and lost out.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


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"Arch" wrote in message
...


I too have a metal lathe and a
small horizontal mill and I can work to a fifteen thousanth.
(of a yard!)


I think a metal bit removes metal by making a series of tiny chips and
doesn't cut in the same way that longer bevelled thin edged turning
tools cut wood fibers.


Arch,

I think it depends on the hardness of the metal being worked. I've turned
zirconium and had curly shavings. Titanium, however, produced very tiny
chips. When turning Ti, if you get too much dust and get the work too hot it
is pretty easy to start a fire in the ways. The difference between a hard
and soft metal is almost like the difference between a 'wet' wood and wood
which is very dry.

Regards,
LD

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