Please forgive my long, boring and predictable "anti-eponym rant" that
you older members remember and expect.


I don't remember inserting tool bits into a CRS bar held in turned
wooden handles then, but I remember as long ago as the late 30's using
engine lathe tool holders with variously ground bits free hand (not in
the tool post) for turning wooden guitar and violin string tightening
keys and keg spigots on a beat up old South Bend. I suspect that many of
you machinist-woodturners have used inserted bits for turning wood for
years and didn't know you were using an "Oland tool". Not that there is
anything wrong with that and I'm sure Mr. Oland was a fine man and
accomplished woodturner, but he wasn't the first to insert tool bits for
turning wood.


OK, I am showing my petty prejudices (aka prejudgment) about naming
tools, techniques and turned forms and their embellishments for a
person. Eponyms may include fewer words, but are often more confusing
than indicative and more promotion than invention. Certainly less
descriptive. Except of course, for the "Arch Tool", the "Arch cut" and
the "Arch paint & puncture creation" I have to admit it's much easier
to recognize my (in)famous work by eponym than by "dull scraper", "big
catch" and "garish abomination."


BTW, I see that full length tool bits inserted into small aluminum
handles are being advertized as Sorby's "micro hollowing tools" No
eponyms for them yet, but sure to come, even if they aren't anything
new.


There, I've said it again! What me, a cynic?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Arch wrote:

There, I've said it again! What me, a cynic?

Heaven forbid. It's what us COCs are here for. It's in the charter...

--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
In a recent poll, seven out of ten hard drives preferred Linux.

On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:36:13 -0500, (Arch) wrote:



Please forgive my long, boring and predictable "anti-eponym rant" that
you older members remember and expect.


I don't remember inserting tool bits into a CRS bar held in turned
wooden handles then, but I remember as long ago as the late 30's using
engine lathe tool holders with variously ground bits free hand (not in
the tool post) for turning wooden guitar and violin string tightening
keys and keg spigots on a beat up old South Bend. I suspect that many of
you machinist-woodturners have used inserted bits for turning wood for
years and didn't know you were using an "Oland tool". Not that there is
anything wrong with that and I'm sure Mr. Oland was a fine man and
accomplished woodturner, but he wasn't the first to insert tool bits for
turning wood.


OK, I am showing my petty prejudices (aka prejudgment) about naming
tools, techniques and turned forms and their embellishments for a
person. Eponyms may include fewer words, but are often more confusing
than indicative and more promotion than invention. Certainly less
descriptive. Except of course, for the "Arch Tool", the "Arch cut" and
the "Arch paint & puncture creation" I have to admit it's much easier
to recognize my (in)famous work by eponym than by "dull scraper", "big
catch" and "garish abomination."


BTW, I see that full length tool bits inserted into small aluminum
handles are being advertized as Sorby's "micro hollowing tools" No
eponyms for them yet, but sure to come, even if they aren't anything
new.


There, I've said it again! What me, a cynic?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings


If they're using full size bits in that little holder, the Sorby might end up
being called "Aluminum handle that breaks when used"..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Arch,

Good to hear from you again, it has been a while. Thought maybe you
were running out of gas, which is different from hot air.

You didn't get around to the Ellsworth/Irish/swept back gouges. Same
difference though.

robo hippy

On Feb 8, 3:55*pm, mac davis wrote:
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:36:13 -0500, (Arch) wrote:

Please forgive my long, boring and predictable "anti-eponym rant" that
you older members remember and expect. *

I don't remember inserting tool bits into a CRS bar held in turned
wooden handles then, but I remember as long ago as the late 30's using
engine lathe tool holders with variously ground bits free hand (not in
the tool post) for turning wooden guitar and violin string tightening
keys and keg spigots on a beat up old South Bend. I suspect that many of
you machinist-woodturners have used inserted bits for turning wood for
years and didn't know you were using an "Oland tool". *Not that there is
anything wrong with that and I'm sure Mr. Oland was a fine man and
accomplished woodturner, but he wasn't the first to insert tool bits for
turning wood. *

OK, I am showing my petty prejudices (aka prejudgment) about naming
tools, techniques and turned forms and their *embellishments for a
person. Eponyms may include fewer words, but are often more confusing
than indicative and more promotion than invention. Certainly less
descriptive. Except of course, for the "Arch Tool", the "Arch cut" and
the "Arch paint & puncture creation" *I have to admit it's much easier
to recognize my (in)famous work by eponym than by "dull scraper", "big
catch" and "garish abomination." *

BTW, I see that full length tool bits inserted into small aluminum
handles are being advertized as Sorby's "micro hollowing tools" *No
eponyms for them yet, but sure to come, even if they aren't anything
new.

There, I've said it again! *What me, a cynic? *

Turn to Safety, *Arch * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Fortiter

http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

If they're using full size bits in that little holder, the Sorby might end up
being called "Aluminum handle that breaks when used"..

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Arch,

Nothing more than marketing. Give it a "brand" name and some people
will just have to have it. Personally, I never look at names. I look
at features. If there is something unique or I see some sort of
advantage I might buy the tool. What they call it is simply not
relevant.

Arch wrote:

Please forgive my long, boring and predictable "anti-eponym rant" that
you older members remember and expect.


I don't remember inserting tool bits into a CRS bar held in turned
wooden handles then, but I remember as long ago as the late 30's using
engine lathe tool holders with variously ground bits free hand (not in
the tool post) for turning wooden guitar and violin string tightening
keys and keg spigots on a beat up old South Bend. I suspect that many of
you machinist-woodturners have used inserted bits for turning wood for
years and didn't know you were using an "Oland tool". Not that there is
anything wrong with that and I'm sure Mr. Oland was a fine man and
accomplished woodturner, but he wasn't the first to insert tool bits for
turning wood.

snippers

There, I've said it again! What me, a cynic?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter

Nor did Columbus discover America.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

All the world's a stage, and I missed
rehearsal.

On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:10:17 -0800 (PST), ebd wrote:

Arch,

Nothing more than marketing. Give it a "brand" name and some people
will just have to have it. Personally, I never look at names. I look
at features. If there is something unique or I see some sort of
advantage I might buy the tool. What they call it is simply not
relevant.

I've never bought into the thing where if someone licenses their name to a tool
the tool suddenly becomes better and worth a much higher price..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I guess I don't have to worry about a line of 'robo hippy' tools,
though I always thought the name had possibilities. Still doing better
at getting famous than I am at getting rich.

robo hippy



On Feb 9, 8:58*am, mac davis wrote:
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:10:17 -0800 (PST), ebd wrote:
Arch,

Nothing more than marketing. Give it a "brand" name and some people
will just have to have it. Personally, I never look at names. I look
at features. If there is something unique or I see some sort of
advantage I might buy the tool. What they call it is simply not
relevant.

I've never bought into the thing where if someone licenses their name to a tool
the tool suddenly becomes better and worth a much higher price..

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:19:33 -0800 (PST), robo hippy
wrote:

I think the Reed Gray line sounds more "High Dollar"..

I guess I don't have to worry about a line of 'robo hippy' tools,
though I always thought the name had possibilities. Still doing better
at getting famous than I am at getting rich.

robo hippy



On Feb 9, 8:58*am, mac davis wrote:
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:10:17 -0800 (PST), ebd wrote:
Arch,

Nothing more than marketing. Give it a "brand" name and some people
will just have to have it. Personally, I never look at names. I look
at features. If there is something unique or I see some sort of
advantage I might buy the tool. What they call it is simply not
relevant.

I've never bought into the thing where if someone licenses their name to a tool
the tool suddenly becomes better and worth a much higher price..

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I guess that if I did come out with some tools, I would take the Doug
Thompson approach, factory direct to keep quality high, and price
cheap because that is what I would want if I was the customer.

robo hippy



On Feb 9, 11:24*pm, mac davis wrote:
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:19:33 -0800 (PST), robo hippy
wrote:

I think the Reed Gray line sounds more "High Dollar"..





I guess I don't have to worry about a line of 'robo hippy' tools,
though I always thought the name had possibilities. Still doing better
at getting famous than I am at getting rich.

robo hippy

On Feb 9, 8:58*am, mac davis wrote:
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:10:17 -0800 (PST), ebd wrote:
Arch,

Nothing more than marketing. Give it a "brand" name and some people
will just have to have it. Personally, I never look at names. I look
at features. If there is something unique or I see some sort of
advantage I might buy the tool. What they call it is simply not
relevant.

I've never bought into the thing where if someone licenses their name to a tool
the tool suddenly becomes better and worth a much higher price..

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

robo hippy wrote:
I guess that if I did come out with some tools, I would take the Doug
Thompson approach, factory direct to keep quality high, and price
cheap because that is what I would want if I was the customer.

Being that my gouges have about an inch and a half of usable flute left,
those look pretty nice. Curious though - do you regrind them to a
different profile or leave them as is? Sure wish I had a pair to try -
one w/the V groove and one with the U.

I have an old Sorby bowl gouge, a Hamlet bowl gouge, and a couple of
Henry Taylor Superflute bowl gouges. Not sure how the Thompson grooves
compare in profile. Next time I make it to an AAW convention I think
I'll try out every brand I can find that will let me!

So the other question is, when my gouges are finally worn to a nub,
what's the best way to get the old tool out of the handle?

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
In a recent poll, seven out of ten hard drives preferred Linux.

The Thompson V gouge is more of a U, and the U gouge is more of a C.
He is now making a few deep fluted gouges which are more like the old
Glaser deep V gouges, which I didn't really like. I prefer Dougs V
gouge, the U is just a bit flat for me, more suited to the outside of
a bowl. I keep the same angle, but add a bit more sweep to it, and how
have made the angle a bit more blunt, in the 55 or so degree range. A
little better for getting down the transition area of a bowl, and
across the bottom. I haven't used my gouge jig all year. I started
doing it on a platform, like Mike Mahoney and Stewart Batty. It is
faster and easier, and if you want more sweep, just roll it more up.
There is a You Tube video of Mike sharpening his gouges. On any of the
turning forums, when 'which gouge to buy' comes up, it is about 90%
Thompson. You do have to make your own handles, or you can buy some of
the metal ones. I prefer big round straight with no bumps wood.

robo hippy

On Feb 11, 1:38*pm, Kevin Miller wrote:
robo hippy wrote:
I guess that if I did come out with some tools, I would take the Doug
Thompson approach, factory direct to keep quality high, and price
cheap because that is what I would want if I was the customer.

Being that my gouges have about an inch and a half of usable flute left,
those look pretty nice. *Curious though - do you regrind them to a
different profile or leave them as is? *Sure wish I had a pair to try -
one w/the V groove and one with the U.

I have an old Sorby bowl gouge, a Hamlet bowl gouge, and a couple of
Henry Taylor Superflute bowl gouges. *Not sure how the Thompson grooves
compare in profile. *Next time I make it to an AAW convention I think
I'll try out every brand I can find that will let me!

So the other question is, when my gouges are finally worn to a nub,
what's the best way to get the old tool out of the handle?

...Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaskahttp://www.alaska.net/~atftb
In a recent poll, seven out of ten hard drives preferred Linux.

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:38:01 -0900, Kevin Miller wrote:


So the other question is, when my gouges are finally worn to a nub,
what's the best way to get the old tool out of the handle?

...Kevin

I put mine in the vise and twist them back & forth.. usually break free fairly
easily.. If now, I use one of those small oil filter type wrenches with the
rubber strap..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

robo hippy wrote:
The Thompson V gouge is more of a U, and the U gouge is more of a C.
He is now making a few deep fluted gouges which are more like the old
Glaser deep V gouges, which I didn't really like. I prefer Dougs V
gouge, the U is just a bit flat for me, more suited to the outside of
a bowl. I keep the same angle, but add a bit more sweep to it, and now
have made the angle a bit more blunt, in the 55 or so degree range. A
little better for getting down the transition area of a bowl, and
across the bottom. I haven't used my gouge jig all year. I started
doing it on a platform, like Mike Mahoney and Stewart Batty. It is
faster and easier, and if you want more sweep, just roll it more up.
There is a You Tube video of Mike sharpening his gouges. On any of the
turning forums, when 'which gouge to buy' comes up, it is about 90%
Thompson. You do have to make your own handles, or you can buy some of
the metal ones. I prefer big round straight with no bumps wood.

robo hippy

Thanks Reed. Looking at the photos on the site, it did seem as if it
had a really wide valley on the U profile. Not sure what my nose angle
is on my current gouges, but they're definitely blunter than 45.

I checked out the video. I used to do it that way, but now prefer the
Oneway jig. I don't really find it any slower, but to each their own.

Think I'll order me a V gouge and keep on the lookout for a U gouge at
the next symposium I'm at. Be nice to try, but the V sounds closer to
what I'm using now, which I'm pretty happy with. Particularly the
Sorby's profile. The Hamlet tool has a very pronounced V which gives it
a pretty pointy nose. But there are times that that is just what I need.

If only I could order one of everything!

Handles are no problem I've got a number of tools w/handles I made...

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
In a recent poll, seven out of ten hard drives preferred Linux.

mac davis wrote:
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:38:01 -0900, Kevin Miller wrote:

So the other question is, when my gouges are finally worn to a nub,
what's the best way to get the old tool out of the handle?

...Kevin

I put mine in the vise and twist them back & forth.. usually break free fairly
easily.. If not, I use one of those small oil filter type wrenches with the
rubber strap..

Ever heat the shaft of the old tool? Wondering if any are epoxied in,
and if that would soften the grip...


--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
In a recent poll, seven out of ten hard drives preferred Linux.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:00:39 -0900, Kevin Miller wrote:

mac davis wrote:
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:38:01 -0900, Kevin Miller wrote:

So the other question is, when my gouges are finally worn to a nub,
what's the best way to get the old tool out of the handle?

...Kevin

I put mine in the vise and twist them back & forth.. usually break free fairly
easily.. If not, I use one of those small oil filter type wrenches with the
rubber strap..

Ever heat the shaft of the old tool? Wondering if any are epoxied in,
and if that would soften the grip...

I've never had to, Kevin.. Most of them have come out pretty easily, without
even removing the ferrule..

I'd just try it first.. heating could (probably wouldn't) char or weaken the
handle or make the hole loose..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:00:39 -0600, Kevin Miller wrote
(in message ications):

mac davis wrote:
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:38:01 -0900, Kevin Miller wrote:

So the other question is, when my gouges are finally worn to a nub,
what's the best way to get the old tool out of the handle?

...Kevin

I put mine in the vise and twist them back & forth.. usually break free
fairly
easily.. If not, I use one of those small oil filter type wrenches with the
rubber strap..

Ever heat the shaft of the old tool? Wondering if any are epoxied in,
and if that would soften the grip...




I have had occasion to soften epoxy joints, and yes, heat works. Epoxy is a
polymer - a type of plastic, albeit a very strong one.
In the case of a tool bit epoxied into a handle, it might be possible to heat
the tool bit with a propane torch - carefully. Testing periodically to see if
the epoxy has softened up enough to loosen its grip on the steel. The steel
will conduct heat sufficiently, I think, that the wood will not get charred.
Wood will char around 450 degrees F. The epoxy should let loose at a
temperature much lower than that. I know there are high-temp epoxies, but it
is likely the case that an ordinary variety of epoxy would be used for
securing a chisel or gouge bit in a handle.

tom koehler

--
I will find a way or make one.

On 02/12/2010 10:00 PM, mac davis wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:00:39 -0900, Kevin Miller wrote:
Ever heat the shaft of the old tool? Wondering if any are epoxied in,
and if that would soften the grip...

I've never had to, Kevin.. Most of them have come out pretty easily, without
even removing the ferrule..

I'd just try it first.. heating could (probably wouldn't) char or weaken the
handle or make the hole loose..

Hopefully I wouldn't get it that hot. I'll give it a try cold first
though. Worst case I destroy it and have to sacrifice a 2x2x18 hunk of
something solid.

S'later...

--
Kevin Miller - http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
In a recent survey, 7 out of 10 hard drives preferred Linux
Registered Linux User No: 307357, http://counter.li.org

On 02/13/2010 08:57 AM, tom koehler wrote:
I have had occasion to soften epoxy joints, and yes, heat works. Epoxy is a
polymer - a type of plastic, albeit a very strong one.
In the case of a tool bit epoxied into a handle, it might be possible to heat
the tool bit with a propane torch - carefully. Testing periodically to see if
the epoxy has softened up enough to loosen its grip on the steel. The steel
will conduct heat sufficiently, I think, that the wood will not get charred.
Wood will char around 450 degrees F. The epoxy should let loose at a
temperature much lower than that. I know there are high-temp epoxies, but it
is likely the case that an ordinary variety of epoxy would be used for
securing a chisel or gouge bit in a handle.

tom koehler

Thanks Tom - with any luck it won't be a problem but nice to know it's
an option. Of course, I'll have to remember to not pick up the old tool
immediately! g

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller - http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
In a recent survey, 7 out of 10 hard drives preferred Linux
Registered Linux User No: 307357, http://counter.li.org