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Default PING Robo Hippy re shear cutting

Robo
You answered the Oland Tool post with a shear cut remark.

I'm anal about a smooth, flowing finish but a find the scraper is not that
easy to just slide through a continuous cut. This could be my inexperience
trying to use that way. Further, since it's flat, I find it awkward to bring
up enough for a shear cut.

So, I'm thinking of a way too expensive tool at Klingspor's that has a
removable curving plus flat cutter attached to a stout round bar that has
some 1/4" flat on it. Seems this could be maneuvered a lot easier.

Your thoughts? Or anybody else's?

TomNie


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Default PING Robo Hippy re shear cutting


"TomNie" wrote in message
...
Robo
You answered the Oland Tool post with a shear cut remark.

I'm anal about a smooth, flowing finish but a find the scraper is not that
easy to just slide through a continuous cut. This could be my inexperience
trying to use that way. Further, since it's flat, I find it awkward to
bring up enough for a shear cut.

So, I'm thinking of a way too expensive tool at Klingspor's that has a
removable curving plus flat cutter attached to a stout round bar that has
some 1/4" flat on it. Seems this could be maneuvered a lot easier.

Your thoughts? Or anybody else's?


I'd rather cut. Forged gouge, half inch size, rim to button is pretty easy
to do, given the amount of bevel available to keep on the work.

If you're shear scraper struck, this works.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...hear%20scraper You can
"Hunter" it with carbide tooling or use other shapes.

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Default PING Robo Hippy re shear cutting

Thanks, George, that was the brand I was thinking of. They have a more
rounded bit shaped like a "comma" that was what I referred to.

I'd like to think that I can fairly well do a smooth continuous cut with my
gouges. When it comes finishing time you can see or feel imperfections that
a larger contact area avoids. I'm after that waxed feel that is to the hand
what a heavily lacquered cherry apple paint job on a car is to the eye.

TomNie
"George" wrote in message
. net...

"TomNie" wrote in message
...
Robo
You answered the Oland Tool post with a shear cut remark.

I'm anal about a smooth, flowing finish but a find the scraper is not
that easy to just slide through a continuous cut. This could be my
inexperience trying to use that way. Further, since it's flat, I find it
awkward to bring up enough for a shear cut.

So, I'm thinking of a way too expensive tool at Klingspor's that has a
removable curving plus flat cutter attached to a stout round bar that has
some 1/4" flat on it. Seems this could be maneuvered a lot easier.

Your thoughts? Or anybody else's?


I'd rather cut. Forged gouge, half inch size, rim to button is pretty
easy to do, given the amount of bevel available to keep on the work.

If you're shear scraper struck, this works.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...hear%20scraper You
can "Hunter" it with carbide tooling or use other shapes.



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Default PING Robo Hippy re shear cutting

My DUMB - Candy Apple

Kept looking at it thinking what's wrong with that? Senility's hell.
TomNie


"TomNie" wrote in message
...
Thanks, George, that was the brand I was thinking of. They have a more
rounded bit shaped like a "comma" that was what I referred to.

I'd like to think that I can fairly well do a smooth continuous cut with
my gouges. When it comes finishing time you can see or feel imperfections
that a larger contact area avoids. I'm after that waxed feel that is to
the hand what a heavily lacquered cherry apple paint job on a car is to
the eye.

TomNie
"George" wrote in message
. net...

"TomNie" wrote in message
...
Robo
You answered the Oland Tool post with a shear cut remark.

I'm anal about a smooth, flowing finish but a find the scraper is not
that easy to just slide through a continuous cut. This could be my
inexperience trying to use that way. Further, since it's flat, I find it
awkward to bring up enough for a shear cut.

So, I'm thinking of a way too expensive tool at Klingspor's that has a
removable curving plus flat cutter attached to a stout round bar that
has some 1/4" flat on it. Seems this could be maneuvered a lot easier.

Your thoughts? Or anybody else's?


I'd rather cut. Forged gouge, half inch size, rim to button is pretty
easy to do, given the amount of bevel available to keep on the work.

If you're shear scraper struck, this works.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...hear%20scraper You
can "Hunter" it with carbide tooling or use other shapes.





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Default PING Robo Hippy re shear cutting

One last thing I should probably add is that this problem started when I
started undercut edge bowls.




"TomNie" wrote in message
...
Robo
You answered the Oland Tool post with a shear cut remark.

I'm anal about a smooth, flowing finish but a find the scraper is not that
easy to just slide through a continuous cut. This could be my inexperience
trying to use that way. Further, since it's flat, I find it awkward to
bring up enough for a shear cut.

So, I'm thinking of a way too expensive tool at Klingspor's that has a
removable curving plus flat cutter attached to a stout round bar that has
some 1/4" flat on it. Seems this could be maneuvered a lot easier.

Your thoughts? Or anybody else's?

TomNie





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Default PING Robo Hippy re shear cutting

Well, a standard scraper will do the same thing. To get the glassy
smooth finsh, the gouge will work better because you are rubbing the
wood with the bevel and in effect, burnishing it (at least that is my
current theory which I reserve the right to change in the future if I
find out it doesn't work like I think it does now). You can get shear
and scraping cuts with both gouges and scrapers. If ground on the same
wheel, then you should get the same finish. Well, in theory that is. I
tried the gouge shear cut with the handle down and the blade up on my
bowls a lot, and never got the shiny cut that I would get with the
gouge rubbing the bevel. The same on the inside of the bowl. I have a
friend who uses a 'whisper cut' with a scraper on the inside of his
bowls for the final cut. By whisper, only the tinyest of shavings are
taken, the kind that hang in the air like 3 micron dust particles.
Well, I started trying it and it worked as long as my clumsy hands
didn't get too heavy. I started using the gouge more in a shear angle
and got a better cut. It still never looked as shiny as the rubbed
bevel cut. Once while spinning a bowl backwards to feel for tearout, I
notices very little with a freshly sharpened gouge. I couldn't feel it
when turning in the direction the bowl was spinning while turning. I
tried the same thing with a shear scraper cut, and got the same thing.
I also tried it with a shear gouge cut, and again the same thing. The
only real difference that I can find is in whether I am doing more of
a roughing cut rather than a whisper cut, and of course having a sharp
tool. This cut seems to be able to be used as a push or pull cut
regardless of whether you are on the inside or outside of the bowl.
For scrapers, I prefer the inside, or rounded off to the left side of
the gouge, and a 3/8 thick by 1 1/4 wide (I like big heavy tools).
Just roll it onto the side at about 45 degrees, and just barely touch
the wood. This is a clean up cut, not a stock removal cut. You need to
raise a good burr, and I do this with an 80 grit wheel, and push the
scraper into the wheel with some small amount of force, not just kiss
the surface. I also use a diamond stone to remove the old burr before
putting a new one on. I have tried the burnishers (hand held triangle,
and yes, I can push hard enough to raise a burr this way with the
triangle burnisher, but not with the round ones) without liking it as
much as the burr from the grinder. I currently have some bowls drying
that have been totally turned using a scraper (I turn green to final
thickness, and let them dry and warp before sanding and finishing). I
will sand them out this week, and see if the actual surface is any
smoother than the ones I was getting from the gouges. I can get a
satisfactory finish cut with a gouge on the outside of the bowl, but
the inside is never as good. Some days I do better than other, but the
inside always gives me fits.
robo hippy

On Jan 21, 1:40*pm, "TomNie" wrote:
One last thing I should probably add is that this problem started when I
started undercut edge bowls.

"TomNie" wrote in message

...

Robo
You answered the Oland Tool post with a shear cut remark.


I'm anal about a smooth, flowing finish but a find the scraper is not that
easy to just slide through a continuous cut. This could be my inexperience
trying to use that way. Further, since it's flat, I find it awkward to
bring up enough for a shear cut.


So, I'm thinking of a way too expensive tool at Klingspor's that has a
removable curving plus flat cutter attached to a stout round bar that has
some 1/4" flat on it. Seems this could be maneuvered a lot easier.


Your thoughts? Or anybody else's?


TomNie


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Default PING Robo Hippy re shear cutting

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:09:50 -0500, "TomNie" wrote:


Tom..

1. Get better with a scraper.. ;-]
Try using a sweeping motion, like an arc...
A scraper cuts with the burr from sharpening it, and the burr goes away very
fast... Sharpen often..
Play with tool rest height and scraper angle.. I use about a 3 degree angle on
my scraper grind, so what works for me is to have the rest adjusted so that the
scraper when level is just a hair above center line.. Only practice will
determine what works for you..

Get a scraper rest or a rest with a flat top..
When you use the angled top rest that most lathes come with, the scraper is ok
when you're dead center, but as you sweep your arc, the scraper tends to tilt a
bit to the side when it follows the angled rest top..
My favorite is a big, ugly French curve rest with a flat top...

The tool you're looking for is sort of a single purpose tool.. I was thinking of
getting one for boxes and things, which IMO it's more suited for than bowls..

I tried this, which is ok for deep work and not bad for side/bottom scraping..

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merc...Code=tools-sut

It would be a great tool if I didn't already have the Oneway Termite and if it
held angle better, but I fixed that..

It hollows well, scrapes some things well and is supposed to be an alternative
to a bowl gouge.. I really like the square shaft.. lets you know that your tip
orientation is ok..

Downside is the $120 price, but it's a pretty good tool..



Thanks, George, that was the brand I was thinking of. They have a more
rounded bit shaped like a "comma" that was what I referred to.

I'd like to think that I can fairly well do a smooth continuous cut with my
gouges. When it comes finishing time you can see or feel imperfections that
a larger contact area avoids. I'm after that waxed feel that is to the hand
what a heavily lacquered cherry apple paint job on a car is to the eye.

TomNie
"George" wrote in message
.net...

"TomNie" wrote in message
...
Robo
You answered the Oland Tool post with a shear cut remark.

I'm anal about a smooth, flowing finish but a find the scraper is not
that easy to just slide through a continuous cut. This could be my
inexperience trying to use that way. Further, since it's flat, I find it
awkward to bring up enough for a shear cut.

So, I'm thinking of a way too expensive tool at Klingspor's that has a
removable curving plus flat cutter attached to a stout round bar that has
some 1/4" flat on it. Seems this could be maneuvered a lot easier.

Your thoughts? Or anybody else's?


I'd rather cut. Forged gouge, half inch size, rim to button is pretty
easy to do, given the amount of bevel available to keep on the work.

If you're shear scraper struck, this works.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...hear%20scraper You
can "Hunter" it with carbide tooling or use other shapes.




mac

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Default PING Robo Hippy re shear cutting

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:40:58 -0500, "TomNie" wrote:

One last thing I should probably add is that this problem started when I
started undercut edge bowls.

Another thing that I bought that Universal tool for.. does it ok, and the head
adjusts so you can undercut without standing on your head..


mac

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Default PING Robo Hippy re shear cutting

Hi Tom, If you haven't already tried it, you might want to take an old
carbon steel forged shallow flute gouge say 3/4 in. that you aren't
using and keeping a full rounded fingernail shape, grind a long bevel &
sharp edge evenly across the _Flute side. With the tool upside down and
both wings flat on the rest and the bevel rubbing, pull it at an angle
along the outside of a bowl or spindle.

The wings flat on the rest fix and stabilize the shearing angle and the
tangent of the two curved surfaces of wood and tool is easy to control.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings



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In article ,
(Arch) wrote:

Hi Tom, If you haven't already tried it, you might want to take an old
carbon steel forged shallow flute gouge say 3/4 in. that you aren't
using and keeping a full rounded fingernail shape, grind a long bevel &
sharp edge evenly across the _Flute side. With the tool upside down and
both wings flat on the rest and the bevel rubbing, pull it at an angle
along the outside of a bowl or spindle.

The wings flat on the rest fix and stabilize the shearing angle and the
tangent of the two curved surfaces of wood and tool is easy to control.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

I've seen Jim Christiansen use a 2-inch roughing gouge, ground the same
way, for that purpose

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv


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Default PING Robo Hippy re shear cutting

Hi Ralph, Thanks for your suggestion. A big SRG sounds like a good
idea. It should offer a more vertical shearing angle than a spindle
gouge. Trouble is those big gouges are hard to find used and new, too
expensive to play with.

Does Jim use his reverse ground SRG frequently or just showed that the
grind and technique does work? I seldom if ever use mine, but I thought
Tom might find the method fun and maybe helpful.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings



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In article ,
(Arch) wrote:

Hi Ralph, Thanks for your suggestion. A big SRG sounds like a good
idea. It should offer a more vertical shearing angle than a spindle
gouge. Trouble is those big gouges are hard to find used and new, too
expensive to play with.

Does Jim use his reverse ground SRG frequently or just showed that the
grind and technique does work? I seldom if ever use mine, but I thought
Tom might find the method fun and maybe helpful.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

It was a demo, so how often, I wouldn't know. As for finding one, check
out Benjamins' Best http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lx240.html I
bought one, but have yet to use it for anything but roughing (my does
LARGE work well)

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv
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Default PING Robo Hippy re shear cutting

Some great responses and I appreciate them muchly.

1. Being specific. Sometimes I/we forget how people will hear us and make
assumptions. I was sloppy in my question and embarassed at having to add
other posts.
Specifically this problem arose with two conditions - partially spalted
crotch wood (hard then soft spots) and particularly the inside of an
undercut rim, soup mug kinda shaped bowl where a gouge stays on its tip
instead of its wings and the undercut precludes the gouge for some of the
area.

Even on the outside I was unable to handle that bouncy surface with a gouge
shear cut on the wings. You had to stay away from the bevel and just kiss
the surface with the wings as a scraper or use a flat scraper and just
barely touch any protrusions. And as has been noted the outside can be
handled but the inside requires something special.

2. The shear cut I was referring to is the sort Robo and Steve Russell
referred to. That final, evening out, wispy cut. Steve's using a bullnosed
scraper angled about 45* which means the left edge is not under the actually
cutting point and must be rounded or is likely to catch on the rest as
you're using it. Further, I wanted to continue that action up the side and
under that rim.

What looked like the ideal tool was the Sorby 8803H 28" overall (17" handle)
with removable and adjustable bits, particularly the large oval/straight bit
that resembles a "comma". My thought was that the rounded shaft with a
minimal flat would be very flexible and supportive. The articulating head
with the straight portion of the bit could reach under some hollow forms or
this bowls undercut.

So I bothered you folks to see if what looked "ideal" was reality or what
other techniques applied to this particular situation.
Thanks
TomNie


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On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:04:38 -0500, "TomNie" wrote:

Some great responses and I appreciate them muchly.


You've obviously got way too much time on your hands, Tom.. lol
How's the retirement going?

Getting any chances to use the RV?


mac

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To Steve, and others willing to answer,
I am pretty much a self-taught turner who has learned most of how to
do things
from this newsgroup and several books.
I took a look at the two videos regarding shear cutting and have a
couple questions
and my own attempts to answer them.
You show that when shear cutting with a scraper you actually tilt the
scraper at a 45
degree angle. Two things came to mind. First, what about the amount
of torque that
would be applied to the scraper? Wouldn't that require a 'death grip'
on the handle?
Second was the damage that could be done to the tool rest as the
scraper is run across it.
Then I thought a bit more about possible answers. Would the amount of
torque be rather
negligible as the cuts made are very light? Second, would it be
correct to assume that the
edges on the scraper are rounded so as to lessen any damage that would
be done to
the tool rest?

Thanks in advance.


On Jan 22, 1:03 pm, Steve Russell
wrote:
Hello Tom,

Take a look at these two short video clips from my website on shear cutting
on the outside and inside of a bowl. The tool I'm using is a bull nose
scraper on the inside and a dedicated shear scraper on the exterior.

If you have an Irish grind bowl gouge, you could use that to shear scrape on
the exterior, but you still need something curved for shear scraping the
interior.

I'm a big proponent of shear scraping and use it frequently in my studio to
reduce the amount of abrasives needed and to refine the shape of the
project. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask...

Link to videos:

http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com...ideo-tips.html
--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio, The Woodlands, Texas
Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries




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"Kevin" wrote in message
...
To Steve, and others willing to answer,
I am pretty much a self-taught turner who has learned most of how to
do things
from this newsgroup and several books.
I took a look at the two videos regarding shear cutting and have a
couple questions
and my own attempts to answer them.
You show that when shear cutting with a scraper you actually tilt the
scraper at a 45
degree angle. Two things came to mind. First, what about the amount
of torque that
would be applied to the scraper? Wouldn't that require a 'death grip'
on the handle?
Second was the damage that could be done to the tool rest as the
scraper is run across it.
Then I thought a bit more about possible answers. Would the amount of
torque be rather
negligible as the cuts made are very light? Second, would it be
correct to assume that the
edges on the scraper are rounded so as to lessen any damage that would
be done to
the tool rest?


Why not shear with benefit of bevel? Makes it almost impossible to dig in,
gives a surface that's about 150 by default from a 100 stone, 220 or better
if you hone and fuss. It's done, among other ways, like this.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ged-in-Use.jpg

Leaving evidence like this.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...e-Shavings.jpg

Yes, that is soft, punky wood on the far side and near the bottom, but with
a good toolrest to help and a bevel to reference where you're going to where
you've been, who worries?

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On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:10:54 -0800 (PST), Kevin wrote:


You show that when shear cutting with a scraper you actually tilt the scraper at a 45 degree angle.


That sounds weird.. where was the video?

I use a scraper pretty much level with center of tipped slightly down, which I
think is pretty standard?

I've seen some box making videos where the scraper is pointed down quite a bit,
the scrapers were VERY thick and the turner (Bonnie) had a lot of experience
with her method..
For most of us mere mortals, it sounds not only dangerous, but a good way to
mess up a chunk of wood..


mac

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On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:42:48 GMT, "George" wrote:


Why not shear with benefit of bevel? Makes it almost impossible to dig in,
gives a surface that's about 150 by default from a 100 stone, 220 or better
if you hone and fuss. It's done, among other ways, like this.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ged-in-Use.jpg

Leaving evidence like this.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...e-Shavings.jpg

Yes, that is soft, punky wood on the far side and near the bottom, but with
a good toolrest to help and a bevel to reference where you're going to where
you've been, who worries?


George.. in the 1st picture (forged in use) you're cutting from the outside down
towards the button, right?


mac

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"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:42:48 GMT, "George" wrote:


Why not shear with benefit of bevel? Makes it almost impossible to dig
in,
gives a surface that's about 150 by default from a 100 stone, 220 or
better
if you hone and fuss. It's done, among other ways, like this.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ged-in-Use.jpg

Leaving evidence like this.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...e-Shavings.jpg

Yes, that is soft, punky wood on the far side and near the bottom, but
with
a good toolrest to help and a bevel to reference where you're going to
where
you've been, who worries?


George.. in the 1st picture (forged in use) you're cutting from the
outside down
towards the button, right?


Ayup. Down hill, down grain in the case of this piece. If I'm undercutting
a rim, I will have to pull a fingernail grind gouge from the bottom of the
undercut toward the rim in order to stay down grain.

If you look at the shaving, you can see that I have just begun broadening
the cut. The twist was tight when I entered at a high angle to the grain,
and is now widening as the gouge is rotated to a shear. The heel of the
bevel never contacts, just a section parallel to the edge. The support you
get keeps you from digging in and helps you get a consistent thickness
shaving.

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On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:04:52 GMT, "George" wrote:


George.. in the 1st picture (forged in use) you're cutting from the outside down
towards the button, right?


Ayup. Down hill, down grain in the case of this piece. If I'm undercutting
a rim, I will have to pull a fingernail grind gouge from the bottom of the
undercut toward the rim in order to stay down grain.

If you look at the shaving, you can see that I have just begun broadening
the cut. The twist was tight when I entered at a high angle to the grain,
and is now widening as the gouge is rotated to a shear. The heel of the
bevel never contacts, just a section parallel to the edge. The support you
get keeps you from digging in and helps you get a consistent thickness
shaving.


That's why I asked, I was reading the shaving and wanted to make sure that I
interpreted it correctly...

Damn, I've been reading your stuff too long! rofl


mac

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In message , Steve Russell
writes
Hello Mac,

Shear scraping is a very kind and gentle technique and one that produces
excellent results, far better than you can get from traditional scraping in
many cases. If done correctly, the resulting surface can be equal to 320
grit...

Here's a link to the videos:

http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com...ideo-tips.html

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Take care
and all the best to you and yours!


Steve liked your clips, though the

Fluid Pulsed Drilling Technique for Pen Blanks

appears to be a no show
--
John
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On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:44:57 -0600, Steve Russell
wrote:

Hello Mac,

Shear scraping is a very kind and gentle technique and one that produces
excellent results, far better than you can get from traditional scraping in
many cases. If done correctly, the resulting surface can be equal to 320
grit...

Here's a link to the videos:

http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com...ideo-tips.html


Thanks, Steve.. I'll check 'em out...
I hope to hear from Woodcraft this weekend, the Nova XP should be in any day
now..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing
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Default PING Robo Hippy re shear cutting

In message , Steve Russell
writes
Hello John,

Thanks for the kind words... I checked the clip and it ran fine for me. What
browser are you using? Maybe it's a browser specific kind of thing???
Thanks!

Hi Steve running IE7 with latest updates, works ok in Firefox latest
though.
In IE its a white box. The other three clips on the page work fine in
IE.

Looked at the source for one that works and the one that doesn't,
nothing immediately stands out. I will send a screen shot shortly direct
to your e-mail
--
John
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Default PING Robo Hippy re shear cutting

On Monday, January 21, 2008 10:08:37 AM UTC-8, TomNie wrote:
Robo
You answered the Oland Tool post with a shear cut remark.

I'm anal about a smooth, flowing finish but a find the scraper is not that
easy to just slide through a continuous cut. This could be my inexperience
trying to use that way. Further, since it's flat, I find it awkward to bring
up enough for a shear cut.

So, I'm thinking of a way too expensive tool at Klingspor's that has a
removable curving plus flat cutter attached to a stout round bar that has
some 1/4" flat on it. Seems this could be maneuvered a lot easier.

Your thoughts? Or anybody else's?

TomNie


I'm trying to get in contact with Reed Gray regarding purchasing one of his robo rests. Where can I find him?
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