Hi all. I am new to turning having just bought a used Delta 14" lathe about
6 weeks ago. I found one in very good shape and paid $275 for it. (a side
note: If I hadn't found that one I had made up my mind to go to Woodcraft
and buy a Rikon mini later that afternoon. Was that fortunate???).

Anyway, I was turning some white oak to make an ornament and was having some
trouble with the skew chisel. I was making a ball shape and if I used the
skew from my left-to-right it worked great. If I turned it around and went
from my right-to-left, it wouldn't cut worth a . . .crap. Actually, it
wouldn't cut at all. When I examed the edge there was a beautiful (and
huge) burr on the edge.

I thought I must have done something wrong so I resharpened the skew. I
have been doing this using a 750 grit diamond stone. Could almost shave
with it. Tried cutting the oak again and the skew almost immediately got
the burr again and wouldn't cut. Unfortunately I didn't find it out quite
in time and wound up with a quite nasty spiral that I hadn't planned on.
(insert several of your favorite expletives here).

The skew is one from a six piece set that I got from Grizzly a while back
when I thought I would be getting a lathe, but it didn't work out then. It
is a HSS steel oval skew. I have been reading some books and watching some
videos, but none of them use an oval skew. I have noticed that my skew has
a rather sharp bevel compared to the pictures/videos that I have seen. Most
seem to have a bevel of about 25-30 deg, but this one seems more like about
10-15 deg. It is closer to a knife edge.

So to sum it all up, should I work on my technique more (I need to do that
anyway), get a new skew with a "standard" profile, regrind the one that I
have, or . . .???

Sorry for being long winded,

Wayne

On Mar 12, 1:05 pm, "NoOne N Particular" wrote:
Hi all. I am new to turning having just bought a used Delta 14" lathe about
6 weeks ago. I found one in very good shape and paid $275 for it. (a side
note: If I hadn't found that one I had made up my mind to go to Woodcraft
and buy a Rikon mini later that afternoon. Was that fortunate???).

Anyway, I was turning some white oak to make an ornament and was having some
trouble with the skew chisel. I was making a ball shape and if I used the
skew from my left-to-right it worked great. If I turned it around and went
from my right-to-left, it wouldn't cut worth a . . .crap. Actually, it
wouldn't cut at all. When I examed the edge there was a beautiful (and
huge) burr on the edge.

I thought I must have done something wrong so I resharpened the skew. I
have been doing this using a 750 grit diamond stone. Could almost shave
with it. Tried cutting the oak again and the skew almost immediately got
the burr again and wouldn't cut. Unfortunately I didn't find it out quite
in time and wound up with a quite nasty spiral that I hadn't planned on.
(insert several of your favorite expletives here).

The skew is one from a six piece set that I got from Grizzly a while back
when I thought I would be getting a lathe, but it didn't work out then. It
is a HSS steel oval skew. I have been reading some books and watching some
videos, but none of them use an oval skew. I have noticed that my skew has
a rather sharp bevel compared to the pictures/videos that I have seen. Most
seem to have a bevel of about 25-30 deg, but this one seems more like about
10-15 deg. It is closer to a knife edge.

So to sum it all up, should I work on my technique more (I need to do that
anyway), get a new skew with a "standard" profile, regrind the one that I
have, or . . .???

Sorry for being long winded,

Wayne

I have had the same observation. I have bought all types of turning
tools from the cheap asian imports to the black handled Crown ProPM
pwdered metallurgy tools, and much in-between. The oak is hard and is
creating a bur (bending the weak tip due to sharp angle on softer
steel) on your not so hard asian metal. By grinding specialty use
tools - I have found uses for most of the tools I bought - even the
crap ones from China - although some (Pinnacle) seem very good for $.
Buy another higher quality steel skew and I'll bet your issues are
resolved. Some might say you only need a few tools to do everything.
Myself - I have been turnig for only about 1 1/2 years and I now have
50 -60 turning tools...and i play with all of em all over a week
period of turning. Buy more and learn by experience - it'sthe only
true teacher. As a side note - I have found some of the older US or
Sheffield made carbon steel tools (not HSS) (Ebay) to be very nice -
can be sharpened to a fine edge and hold a bur nicely ..although of
course you will be going to the grinder much more often than with
harder metal. Also if you want to home hat tereat those older steels -
seems to work well. Some of the asian imports are not hard or hardened
at all...I have put in a vise and bend at 90 degrees without breaking
- that's not hard or hardened. I have never tried home hardening the
asian crap....

"NoOne N Particular" wrote in message
...

The skew is one from a six piece set that I got from Grizzly a while back
when I thought I would be getting a lathe, but it didn't work out then.
It is a HSS steel oval skew. I have been reading some books and watching
some videos, but none of them use an oval skew. I have noticed that my
skew has a rather sharp bevel compared to the pictures/videos that I have
seen. Most seem to have a bevel of about 25-30 deg, but this one seems
more like about 10-15 deg. It is closer to a knife edge.


So your included angle is too acute, and you're turning the steel? I
suppose that's possible, even with brittle HSS alloys, but if you make the
entry cut with the bisected angle nearly perpendicular to the grain and then
seek a bevel as you sweep into the cut, should work anyway. I keep a nearly
2:1 bevel (single) on my chisel and it does red oak pretty well. Get too
broad an included angle with the skew and it'll have a tendency to run back
at you. Most I see have a bevel to thickness ratio of about 1:1.2 for an
included of around 50 degrees.

Certainly wouldn't hurt much to try that vicinity.

On Mar 12, 1:41 pm, "George" wrote:
"NoOne N Particular" wrote in igy.net...

The skew is one from a six piece set that I got from Grizzly a while back
when I thought I would be getting a lathe, but it didn't work out then.
It is a HSS steel oval skew. I have been reading some books and watching
some videos, but none of them use an oval skew. I have noticed that my
skew has a rather sharp bevel compared to the pictures/videos that I have
seen. Most seem to have a bevel of about 25-30 deg, but this one seems
more like about 10-15 deg. It is closer to a knife edge.

So your included angle is too acute, and you're turning the steel? I
suppose that's possible, even with brittle HSS alloys, but if you make the
entry cut with the bisected angle nearly perpendicular to the grain and then
seek a bevel as you sweep into the cut, should work anyway. I keep a nearly
2:1 bevel (single) on my chisel and it does red oak pretty well. Get too
broad an included angle with the skew and it'll have a tendency to run back
at you. Most I see have a bevel to thickness ratio of about 1:1.2 for an
included of around 50 degrees.

Certainly wouldn't hurt much to try that vicinity.

I bought a chaep asian oval skew on ebay - has HSS stamped large on it
- the sparks look HSS from grinder. But the skew is made too thin
along enire screw body, and the included angle that came with it was
about 25 degrees. - it caused various probelms - some probably my
technique. But i was ****ed and near threw it away. Later I ground it
back with a slight curve to the edge and an included angle of about 40
degree ( just eyeballng by hand) and works much better for me..What I
first considered trash - i now use regualrly

"NoOne N Particular" wrote:in message
...
Hi all. I am new to turning having just bought a used Delta 14" lathe
about 6 weeks ago. I found one in very good shape and paid $275 for it.
(a side note: If I hadn't found that one I had made up my mind to go to
Woodcraft and buy a Rikon mini later that afternoon. Was that
fortunate???).

Anyway, I was turning some white oak to make an ornament and was having
some trouble with the skew chisel. (clip) Tried cutting the oak again and
the skew almost immediately got the burr again and wouldn't cut.
Unfortunately I didn't find it out quite in time and wound up with a quite
nasty spiral (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The skew is not the ideal too for a beginner to learn on. A "nasty spiral"
can be the consequence of a tiny error.

A narrow bevel on any cutting tool makes it cut better, and I am confident
that in the hands of an experienced turner it could produce a very fine
finish. But the price you pay for having a narrow bevel is in durability.
Most people prefer a broader bevel that can last a while. An axe sharpened
like that would last one chop.

This is the advice I was given by an experience turner when I was having
skew trouble: Use it for EVERYTHING, including roughing. You need
experience. And, if you use it on surfaces that still have enough wood left
to correct errors, you won't be as tense--your errors will give you
experience without anxiety.

On Mar 12, 1:56 pm, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:
"NoOne N Particular" wrote:in igy.net... Hi all. I am new to turning having just bought a used Delta 14" lathe
about 6 weeks ago. I found one in very good shape and paid $275 for it.
(a side note: If I hadn't found that one I had made up my mind to go to
Woodcraft and buy a Rikon mini later that afternoon. Was that
fortunate???).

Anyway, I was turning some white oak to make an ornament and was having
some trouble with the skew chisel. (clip) Tried cutting the oak again and
the skew almost immediately got the burr again and wouldn't cut.
Unfortunately I didn't find it out quite in time and wound up with a quite
nasty spiral (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The skew is not the ideal too for a beginner to learn on. A "nasty spiral"
can be the consequence of a tiny error.

A narrow bevel on any cutting tool makes it cut better, and I am confident
that in the hands of an experienced turner it could produce a very fine
finish. But the price you pay for having a narrow bevel is in durability.
Most people prefer a broader bevel that can last a while. An axe sharpened
like that would last one chop.

This is the advice I was given by an experience turner when I was having
skew trouble: Use it for EVERYTHING, including roughing. You need
experience. And, if you use it on surfaces that still have enough wood left
to correct errors, you won't be as tense--your errors will give you
experience without anxiety.

Amen leo

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:05:37 GMT, "NoOne N Particular"
wrote:

Hi all. I am new to turning having just bought a used Delta 14" lathe about
6 weeks ago. I found one in very good shape and paid $275 for it. (a side
note: If I hadn't found that one I had made up my mind to go to Woodcraft
and buy a Rikon mini later that afternoon. Was that fortunate???).

Anyway, I was turning some white oak to make an ornament and was having some
trouble with the skew chisel. I was making a ball shape and if I used the
skew from my left-to-right it worked great. If I turned it around and went
from my right-to-left, it wouldn't cut worth a . . .crap. Actually, it
wouldn't cut at all. When I examed the edge there was a beautiful (and
huge) burr on the edge.

I thought I must have done something wrong so I resharpened the skew. I
have been doing this using a 750 grit diamond stone. Could almost shave
with it. Tried cutting the oak again and the skew almost immediately got
the burr again and wouldn't cut. Unfortunately I didn't find it out quite
in time and wound up with a quite nasty spiral that I hadn't planned on.
(insert several of your favorite expletives here).

The skew is one from a six piece set that I got from Grizzly a while back
when I thought I would be getting a lathe, but it didn't work out then. It
is a HSS steel oval skew. I have been reading some books and watching some
videos, but none of them use an oval skew. I have noticed that my skew has
a rather sharp bevel compared to the pictures/videos that I have seen. Most
seem to have a bevel of about 25-30 deg, but this one seems more like about
10-15 deg. It is closer to a knife edge.

So to sum it all up, should I work on my technique more (I need to do that
anyway), get a new skew with a "standard" profile, regrind the one that I
have, or . . .???

Sorry for being long winded,

Wayne





A good general angle for a skew would be a 30 degree included angle
between the two beveled faces. You'll find that this angle will be
realized almost exactly when the length of the bevel is twice the
thickness of the tool i.e. if the tool is 1/4" then each bevel shoud
be about 1/2".

A 10-15 degree included angle would, IMHO, be way too narrow for a
skew.

If you don't have a grinder(it sounds like you are sharpening by hand)
then inquire of local turning club if anyone can help you regrind the
skew to proper shape - I can't imagine trying to do by hand.

NoOne N Particular wrote:
Hi all. I am new to turning having just bought a used Delta 14" lathe about
6 weeks ago. I found one in very good shape and paid $275 for it. (a side
note: If I hadn't found that one I had made up my mind to go to Woodcraft
and buy a Rikon mini later that afternoon. Was that fortunate???).

Anyway, I was turning some white oak to make an ornament and was having some
trouble with the skew chisel. I was making a ball shape and if I used the
skew from my left-to-right it worked great. If I turned it around and went
from my right-to-left, it wouldn't cut worth a . . .crap. Actually, it
wouldn't cut at all. When I examed the edge there was a beautiful (and
huge) burr on the edge.

I thought I must have done something wrong so I resharpened the skew. I
have been doing this using a 750 grit diamond stone. Could almost shave
with it. Tried cutting the oak again and the skew almost immediately got
the burr again and wouldn't cut. Unfortunately I didn't find it out quite
in time and wound up with a quite nasty spiral that I hadn't planned on.
(insert several of your favorite expletives here).

The skew is one from a six piece set that I got from Grizzly a while back
when I thought I would be getting a lathe, but it didn't work out then. It
is a HSS steel oval skew. I have been reading some books and watching some
videos, but none of them use an oval skew. I have noticed that my skew has
a rather sharp bevel compared to the pictures/videos that I have seen. Most
seem to have a bevel of about 25-30 deg, but this one seems more like about
10-15 deg. It is closer to a knife edge.

So to sum it all up, should I work on my technique more (I need to do that
anyway), get a new skew with a "standard" profile, regrind the one that I
have, or . . .???

Sorry for being long winded,

Wayne






I would take a look at Alan Lacers video on the skew. He has a lot of
good information and I think he uses 1 1/2 times the thickness of the
skew for a bevel, but I could be wrong.
The other think I like is he recommends using a dead center to drive
your work. Tighten up on the tail stock for more drive. If you have a
catch the piece will just stop. Removed all the fear out of using a
skew. I understand he has a second DVD on projects using the skew, but
I have not seen it. He also has a web site you can check out.

Bruce

Thanks for all the responses.

I have done a little more research and from other pictures I have seen of an
oval skew chisel, the angles on mine seem to be about right. When I was
talking about the bevel looking more like 10-15 deg, I was only speaking of
a single bevel to the cutting edge. Taken as a hole using both bevels, the
angle would be closer to 30 deg. when I am sharpening it, it looks like I
am holding it at about a 15 deg angle from the stone.

I am kinda curious why I am only having problems with this oak when I go
from my right to left. It was working fine for me going left-to-right (this
oak, btw, is very dry. Musta been sitting in BigB for a long time.). I
have used this same chisel on poplar, pine, and redwood from local sources.
I have also used it on some limb wood from tree trimmings in my yard (I am
just learning after all) and that includes some apple, peach, more redwood,
and some ash. I even tried a small piece of a rose bush that my wife
decided she no longer wanted. None of these woods gave me any significant
trouble. I have also turned a few pens using several woods like Lignum
Vitae, Honduran Rosewood, Bloodwood, Purpleheart, etc. I didn't use this
skew chisel, but I did use a small oval skew chisel in the penturning set I
bought. Does that count? I use the skew almost exclusively for pens.

Someone mentioned that it might be a cheap asian import, and I'm sure it is.
If you know the brand it is called SteelX from Grissly. The other tools in
the set are doing a fine job and I use the roughing gouge and the parting
tool a LOT. As an aside note here, the tool handles on the SteelX tools
are an exact copy of the Sorbys from the shape, the groves and their
placement, right down to the brass button on the end of the handle. Just a
different name on them. Funny.

As for sharpening the chisel, I do have a grinder with a Wolverine attached,
but it is just so much quicker for me to grab my diamond stone. It is 12"
long and lately has always been on my bench. I can just grab it, take it
out of it's protective case, run a couple of passes and I'm done. To use my
grinder I have to take the time to set it up and adjust it. pita.

I would like to get some training, but I don't think there is much in my
area. The nearest club that I am aware of is the Diablo Woodworkers, but it
is a little out of range. 45min to an hour drive. I live out on the border
of who knows and nobody cares. I could buy a vid but that would mean that a
tool with my name on it would have to stay lonely that much longer. I can't
let that poor little tool go unbought.

Oh well. The bottom line is that it looks like the chisel is fine and I am
not. More a problem with my technique than the chisel. May have to break
down and buy the vid anyway.

Thanks for our help.

Wayne


"NoOne N Particular" wrote in message
...
Hi all. I am new to turning having just bought a used Delta 14" lathe
about 6 weeks ago. I found one in very good shape and paid $275 for it.
(a side note: If I hadn't found that one I had made up my mind to go to
Woodcraft and buy a Rikon mini later that afternoon. Was that
fortunate???).

Anyway, I was turning some white oak to make an ornament and was having
some trouble with the skew chisel. I was making a ball shape and if I
used the skew from my left-to-right it worked great. If I turned it
around and went from my right-to-left, it wouldn't cut worth a . . .crap.
Actually, it wouldn't cut at all. When I examed the edge there was a
beautiful (and huge) burr on the edge.

I thought I must have done something wrong so I resharpened the skew. I
have been doing this using a 750 grit diamond stone. Could almost shave
with it. Tried cutting the oak again and the skew almost immediately got
the burr again and wouldn't cut. Unfortunately I didn't find it out quite
in time and wound up with a quite nasty spiral that I hadn't planned on.
(insert several of your favorite expletives here).

The skew is one from a six piece set that I got from Grizzly a while back
when I thought I would be getting a lathe, but it didn't work out then.
It is a HSS steel oval skew. I have been reading some books and watching
some videos, but none of them use an oval skew. I have noticed that my
skew has a rather sharp bevel compared to the pictures/videos that I have
seen. Most seem to have a bevel of about 25-30 deg, but this one seems
more like about 10-15 deg. It is closer to a knife edge.

So to sum it all up, should I work on my technique more (I need to do that
anyway), get a new skew with a "standard" profile, regrind the one that I
have, or . . .???

Sorry for being long winded,

Wayne

bruce ferguson wrote:
NoOne N Particular wrote:
Hi all. I am new to turning having just bought a used Delta 14" lathe
about 6 weeks ago. I found one in very good shape and paid $275 for
it. (a side note: If I hadn't found that one I had made up my mind
to go to Woodcraft and buy a Rikon mini later that afternoon. Was
that fortunate???).

Anyway, I was turning some white oak to make an ornament and was
having some trouble with the skew chisel. I was making a ball shape
and if I used the skew from my left-to-right it worked great. If I
turned it around and went from my right-to-left, it wouldn't cut worth
a . . .crap. Actually, it wouldn't cut at all. When I examed the
edge there was a beautiful (and huge) burr on the edge.

I thought I must have done something wrong so I resharpened the skew.
I have been doing this using a 750 grit diamond stone. Could almost
shave with it. Tried cutting the oak again and the skew almost
immediately got the burr again and wouldn't cut. Unfortunately I
didn't find it out quite in time and wound up with a quite nasty
spiral that I hadn't planned on. (insert several of your favorite
expletives here).

The skew is one from a six piece set that I got from Grizzly a while
back when I thought I would be getting a lathe, but it didn't work out
then. It is a HSS steel oval skew. I have been reading some books
and watching some videos, but none of them use an oval skew. I have
noticed that my skew has a rather sharp bevel compared to the
pictures/videos that I have seen. Most seem to have a bevel of about
25-30 deg, but this one seems more like about 10-15 deg. It is closer
to a knife edge.

So to sum it all up, should I work on my technique more (I need to do
that anyway), get a new skew with a "standard" profile, regrind the
one that I have, or . . .???

Sorry for being long winded,

Wayne






I would take a look at Alan Lacers video on the skew. He has a lot of
good information and I think he uses 1 1/2 times the thickness of the
skew for a bevel, but I could be wrong.
The other think I like is he recommends using a dead center to drive
your work. Tighten up on the tail stock for more drive. If you have a
catch the piece will just stop. Removed all the fear out of using a
skew. I understand he has a second DVD on projects using the skew, but
I have not seen it. He also has a web site you can check out.

Bruce

Not having either seen the video or read the book, I would hazard a
guess that you intended to say "Steb" center. A dead center doesn't
rotate at all.

Bill


--
I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject
is worth a **** unless backed up with enough genuine information to make
him really know what he's talking about.

H. P. Lovecraft


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"NoOne N Particular" wrote in
:
snip
I would like to get some training, but I don't think there is much in
my area. The nearest club that I am aware of is the Diablo
Woodworkers, but it is a little out of range. 45min to an hour drive.

Diablo Woodworkers meets the second Wednesday evening at 7 at the old
Pleasant Hill High School, back near the shop wing. There's a turners'
group meets the first Tuesday at Ygnacio Valley High, in their shop. No
charge for either group, and a fine bunch of folks. We have people drive
that far regularly.

Another new face would be welcome. It's generally worth the drive.

Patriarch

"Bill in Detroit" wrote: Not having either seen the video or read the
book, I would hazard a
guess that you intended to say "Steb" center. A dead center doesn't rotate
at all.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No, Bill, he's got it right. A dead center installed in the spindle rotates
with the spindle, and drives the work by friction. This is how I was taught
to turn letter openers. The wood is mounted off center to produce the oval
blade--the slightest catch causes it to stall rather than break.

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:14:37 -0700, "NoOne N Particular"
wrote:
I would like to get some training, but I don't think there is much in my
area. The nearest club that I am aware of is the Diablo Woodworkers, but it
is a little out of range. 45min to an hour drive.

That is not long, I have a 45 min each way drive to go to the club
twice per week, Thurs & Sat, could also go Mon but the fuel bill is
high enough.

I live out on the border of who knows and nobody cares.
Alan, in Gosnells, Western Oz.
VK6 YAB VKS 737 - W 6174

Yeah, I know I'm just being one of those whiney ass complainer types that
always **** me off. But after 11 years of driving 70 miles just to get to
work, wearing out two new cars and one old ass in the process, nowadays I
even hate driving to the corner store. I don't even get to Rocklers more
than once or twice a year now. And have you seen the price of diesel fuel
lately? (more whining) It's higher than premium grade gasoline now. Dang!
At about 5 gallons every trip that would be getting in the $20 range just
for gas. Even at that I keep telling myself just to shut the (bleep) up
and go! Haven't done it yet.

Wayne

Btw, I am on the Diablo Woodworkers email list. I'm not exactly sure how
that happened since I didn't intentionally sign up for it, but I won't tell
them if you don't. I have also bookmarked their website so I have a pretty
good idea of their activities and schedule.




wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:14:37 -0700, "NoOne N Particular"
wrote:
I would like to get some training, but I don't think there is much in my
area. The nearest club that I am aware of is the Diablo Woodworkers, but
it
is a little out of range. 45min to an hour drive.

That is not long, I have a 45 min each way drive to go to the club
twice per week, Thurs & Sat, could also go Mon but the fuel bill is
high enough.

I live out on the border of who knows and nobody cares.
Alan, in Gosnells, Western Oz.
VK6 YAB VKS 737 - W 6174

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Bill in Detroit" wrote: Not having either seen the video or read the
book, I would hazard a
guess that you intended to say "Steb" center. A dead center doesn't rotate
at all.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No, Bill, he's got it right. A dead center installed in the spindle rotates
with the spindle, and drives the work by friction. This is how I was taught
to turn letter openers. The wood is mounted off center to produce the oval
blade--the slightest catch causes it to stall rather than break.


Ahhh ... I was thinking about a dead center in the tailstock. A Steb
center will also allow the stock to stop upon a catch. I don't own one,
but apparently there is some sort of a friction clutch involved.

Bill

--
I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject
is worth a **** unless backed up with enough genuine information to make
him really know what he's talking about.

H. P. Lovecraft

http://nmwoodworks.com


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Problem could be something as simple as your starting grip.
If you're right handed, you probably start a right to left roll
with your right hand palm up- thumb up at the end of the roll.

Rolling right to left,if you start the roll with your palm down
your wrist is bent in an akward position but lets you finish
the roll thumb up. If you start a left to right with your thumb
up, and finish the cut plam up, as you roll the skew there can
be a tendency to push the cutting edge back "uphill" - even
just a ittle and you can get a spiral cut started.

Examine your right hand grip as you roll right to left and
left to right. See if your thumb is up at the end of both
rolls.

Are you cutting long point down or up? I get more spiral
cuts long point up than long point down - but that could
just be me.

Is the end of the handle higher or lower at the end of the
roll than at the start? For me, if the handle ends up lower
I get more spiral cuts.

Probably that's all clear as mud.

charlie b

ps: putting a slight curve to the cutting edge made using
the skew a lot easier - for me.