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dave_ipswich January 26th 07 10:12 AM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
Hi,

I'm a recent convert to woodturning and trying to turn some replacement
balusters for my 110 year old originals. They are 34" long and about
1/2" diameter at the thinnest points, turned from 1 1/4" square stock.

Whip is a bit of an issue. I thought I could improve things by using
oak rather than the original pine and whip is still a big issue. The
surface finish looks rather like a turtle's shell - the tool is
scooping out wood unevenly as the wood vibrates.

I thought I could cure the problem with a centre steady rest so I
slapped down the cash for a robert sorby steady with three steel
rollers and it's even worse. When I turn the lathe on there's a lot of
noise - I presume that the problem is that the wood I'm steadying isn't
perfectly round - because I had to rough it to circular unsupported.
The result is that the wood is now vibrating from contact with the
steady before I touch it with the gouge.

Depression is starting to set in - any hints on how to proceed would be
much appreciated.

Dave
Ipswich, UK


Darrell Feltmate January 26th 07 01:15 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
Dave
How new are you to turning? 34" long with a 1/2" diameter anywhere near the
middle, is tricky turn. There can be lots of vibration. First get some
practice pieces to "waste." To use a steady rest on a piece like this you
need to rough down to a smooth circle in the cneter of the piece. If you are
using 1 1/4" stock, aim for a 1 1/8" circle, not 1/2". Never mind what the
actual diameter is dupposed to be at center, turn to the largest diameter
you can for the steady rest. Then work the tail stock end. move the steady
rest down a bit to a finished diameter and turn the head stock end.
Practice, practice, practice. Hope this helps.

--

God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com


"dave_ipswich" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I'm a recent convert to woodturning and trying to turn some replacement
balusters for my 110 year old originals. They are 34" long and about
1/2" diameter at the thinnest points, turned from 1 1/4" square stock.

Whip is a bit of an issue. I thought I could improve things by using
oak rather than the original pine and whip is still a big issue. The
surface finish looks rather like a turtle's shell - the tool is
scooping out wood unevenly as the wood vibrates.

I thought I could cure the problem with a centre steady rest so I
slapped down the cash for a robert sorby steady with three steel
rollers and it's even worse. When I turn the lathe on there's a lot of
noise - I presume that the problem is that the wood I'm steadying isn't
perfectly round - because I had to rough it to circular unsupported.
The result is that the wood is now vibrating from contact with the
steady before I touch it with the gouge.

Depression is starting to set in - any hints on how to proceed would be
much appreciated.

Dave
Ipswich, UK




Michael Latcha January 26th 07 01:30 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
110 years ago your spindles were turned were probably turned in less than 10
minutes each, on a foot-powered lathe without a steady rest. Humbling,
isn't it?

Things to try:

Slow your speed way down. 700 rpm is plenty, less if you can get it. At
this speed, a good surface can only come from a super-sharp tool. Have you
checked that the steady rest is holding the spindle exactly on center? If
not, it'll only make things worse.

Gouges will also make this situation worse, because they have more bevel
that has to rub. Skew chisels will give you a better cut. Even with a
steady rest, you'll have to support the cut with your leading hand/fingers
curling around the spindle as you cut it.

Start at the middle of the spindle and work towards both ends. The idea is
always to leave as much support as possible, for as long as possible. Once
you turn a section 3"-6" long, sand it and leave it... at this
length/thickness, you can't go back (sometimes even to sand) without
chatter.

Try a different wood. Oak, with its hard/soft layers, is very hard to turn
into long, thin spindles, and doesn't respond well to steady rests of your
type. And if that coarse grain isn't perfectly aligned with the axis of the
spindle, it'll be pretty weak too. I'm not sure if you can get poplar in
the UK, but that's what I'd try, at least for practice. If not, any
medium-hard wood without pronounced grain will do.

Practice, practice, practice on some boring wood, at what seems like
ridiculously slow speeds, always supporting your cut with your leading hand,
trying to make the longest, thinnest spindle that you can. Spindles that
are 24" long or longer and 1/8" (yes, you read that right) in diameter,
complete with lots of elements, are absolutely do-able without a steady
rest. This is the graduate-school, rocket-science of woodturning. And once
you master it, everything else in life is a piece of cake.

Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI


"dave_ipswich" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I'm a recent convert to woodturning and trying to turn some replacement
balusters for my 110 year old originals. They are 34" long and about
1/2" diameter at the thinnest points, turned from 1 1/4" square stock.

Whip is a bit of an issue. I thought I could improve things by using
oak rather than the original pine and whip is still a big issue. The
surface finish looks rather like a turtle's shell - the tool is
scooping out wood unevenly as the wood vibrates.

I thought I could cure the problem with a centre steady rest so I
slapped down the cash for a robert sorby steady with three steel
rollers and it's even worse. When I turn the lathe on there's a lot of
noise - I presume that the problem is that the wood I'm steadying isn't
perfectly round - because I had to rough it to circular unsupported.
The result is that the wood is now vibrating from contact with the
steady before I touch it with the gouge.

Depression is starting to set in - any hints on how to proceed would be
much appreciated.

Dave
Ipswich, UK




George January 26th 07 01:39 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 

"dave_ipswich" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I'm a recent convert to woodturning and trying to turn some replacement
balusters for my 110 year old originals. They are 34" long and about
1/2" diameter at the thinnest points, turned from 1 1/4" square stock.

Whip is a bit of an issue. I thought I could improve things by using
oak rather than the original pine and whip is still a big issue. The
surface finish looks rather like a turtle's shell - the tool is
scooping out wood unevenly as the wood vibrates.

I thought I could cure the problem with a centre steady rest so I
slapped down the cash for a robert sorby steady with three steel
rollers and it's even worse. When I turn the lathe on there's a lot of
noise - I presume that the problem is that the wood I'm steadying isn't
perfectly round - because I had to rough it to circular unsupported.
The result is that the wood is now vibrating from contact with the
steady before I touch it with the gouge.

Depression is starting to set in - any hints on how to proceed would be
much appreciated.


Couple of things to begin with. Make sure you're not flexing the piece at
the outset with too much pressure from the tailstock. If a live center,
snug and then back off an eighth of a turn or so, keeping the point an cup
engaged.

Watch your cutting angle. Depending on the tool used, you'll want to cut
high on the piece with a skew, lower with a gouge, where the tool provides a
bit of clearance by its shape. I tend to wrap the steadying hand around
under when using a skew, behind on a gouge or chisel.

Then there's the problem of the differential density in oak to overcome.
Makes a non-flexible wheel on the steady more of a liability than a help
sometimes. Keep the tool firm to the rest and skim the chatter off in
stages if you must. Trying to steady a cut on a bouncing bevel won't work.


Art Ransom January 26th 07 02:32 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
Oak is a bad subsisted for original pine. Pine has a lot or teat out. If
it is interior use go with poplar or exterior the best would be mahogany. As
for getting a round section for steady rest turn first section 6 to 12"
inches from end and then you will have enough support to do one at center of
piece.

--
Art Ransom
Lancaster , Texas
www.turningaround.org
akransom@ comcast.net is changing to


"dave_ipswich" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I'm a recent convert to woodturning and trying to turn some replacement
balusters for my 110 year old originals. They are 34" long and about
1/2" diameter at the thinnest points, turned from 1 1/4" square stock.

Whip is a bit of an issue. I thought I could improve things by using
oak rather than the original pine and whip is still a big issue. The
surface finish looks rather like a turtle's shell - the tool is
scooping out wood unevenly as the wood vibrates.

I thought I could cure the problem with a centre steady rest so I
slapped down the cash for a robert sorby steady with three steel
rollers and it's even worse. When I turn the lathe on there's a lot of
noise - I presume that the problem is that the wood I'm steadying isn't
perfectly round - because I had to rough it to circular unsupported.
The result is that the wood is now vibrating from contact with the
steady before I touch it with the gouge.

Depression is starting to set in - any hints on how to proceed would be
much appreciated.

Dave
Ipswich, UK




Arch January 26th 07 03:27 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
Hi Dave, Please don't turn if you are taking any anti depressants or
mood elevating beverages for your incipient depression. :)


It may not matter with balusters, but with very thin long rods, goblets,
etc. driving the blank with a chuck instead of a spur seems to help
prevent bowing. probably by compressing longitudinal fibers.


You've gotten some much better tips, but since you have already bought
the Sorby steady rest you might like to make a 'turtle' to use with it.
Nothing more than a short piece of black iron pipe, say 2 in. length X 2
in. diam. Drill and thread 3 holes around the circumference for three
3/8 or so bolts to bear against the middle of the wood blank. Adjust the
bolts to center the blank in the pipe and lock the bolts with two nuts
each. Then let the Sorby rollers ride on the round pipe avoiding the
bolt heads. Turn an adjacent section of the blank to round, remove the
turtle and use the steady while completing the baluster. Hope my
description isn't too confusing.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings


dave_ipswich January 26th 07 05:11 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
I did a bit at school 30 years ago. I bought a cheap nasty lathe at the
beginning of November, spent most of November learning to sharpen tools
and building jigs. I did a two day course at the beginning of December,
joined a club at the beginning of January, sold the cheap nasty lathe
and bought a Nova DVR XP in the middle of January. It's a clearly a bit
of an obsession but I'm enjoying it very much.

I'm turning down to the largest possible diameter for the steady but I
wonder if it's worth doing that say 6" from the end and then working my
way up the baluster in 6 inch sections?

Dave


On 26 Jan, 12:15, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:
Dave
How new are you to turning? 34" long with a 1/2" diameter anywhere near the
middle, is tricky turn. There can be lots of vibration. First get some
practice pieces to "waste." To use a steady rest on a piece like this you
need to rough down to a smooth circle in the cneter of the piece. If you are
using 1 1/4" stock, aim for a 1 1/8" circle, not 1/2". Never mind what the
actual diameter is dupposed to be at center, turn to the largest diameter
you can for the steady rest. Then work the tail stock end. move the steady
rest down a bit to a finished diameter and turn the head stock end.
Practice, practice, practice. Hope this helps.

--

God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canadawww.aroundthewoods.com

"dave_ipswich" wrote in ooglegroups.com...

Hi,


I'm a recent convert to woodturning and trying to turn some replacement
balusters for my 110 year old originals. They are 34" long and about
1/2" diameter at the thinnest points, turned from 1 1/4" square stock.


Whip is a bit of an issue. I thought I could improve things by using
oak rather than the original pine and whip is still a big issue. The
surface finish looks rather like a turtle's shell - the tool is
scooping out wood unevenly as the wood vibrates.


I thought I could cure the problem with a centre steady rest so I
slapped down the cash for a robert sorby steady with three steel
rollers and it's even worse. When I turn the lathe on there's a lot of
noise - I presume that the problem is that the wood I'm steadying isn't
perfectly round - because I had to rough it to circular unsupported.
The result is that the wood is now vibrating from contact with the
steady before I touch it with the gouge.


Depression is starting to set in - any hints on how to proceed would be
much appreciated.


Dave
Ipswich, UK



dave_ipswich January 26th 07 05:15 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
Michael,

I can go down to 100 rpm - presumably there will be other issues then?

I'm pretty confident the tools are sharp.

I do have some cherry - would that be suitable?

To centre the steady I just bring up each roller to touch the wood at
rest - is there a better way?

Dave


On 26 Jan, 12:30, "Michael Latcha" wrote:
110 years ago your spindles were turned were probably turned in less than 10
minutes each, on a foot-powered lathe without a steady rest. Humbling,
isn't it?

Things to try:

Slow your speed way down. 700 rpm is plenty, less if you can get it. At
this speed, a good surface can only come from a super-sharp tool. Have you
checked that the steady rest is holding the spindle exactly on center? If
not, it'll only make things worse.

Gouges will also make this situation worse, because they have more bevel
that has to rub. Skew chisels will give you a better cut. Even with a
steady rest, you'll have to support the cut with your leading hand/fingers
curling around the spindle as you cut it.

Start at the middle of the spindle and work towards both ends. The idea is
always to leave as much support as possible, for as long as possible. Once
you turn a section 3"-6" long, sand it and leave it... at this
length/thickness, you can't go back (sometimes even to sand) without
chatter.

Try a different wood. Oak, with its hard/soft layers, is very hard to turn
into long, thin spindles, and doesn't respond well to steady rests of your
type. And if that coarse grain isn't perfectly aligned with the axis of the
spindle, it'll be pretty weak too. I'm not sure if you can get poplar in
the UK, but that's what I'd try, at least for practice. If not, any
medium-hard wood without pronounced grain will do.

Practice, practice, practice on some boring wood, at what seems like
ridiculously slow speeds, always supporting your cut with your leading hand,
trying to make the longest, thinnest spindle that you can. Spindles that
are 24" long or longer and 1/8" (yes, you read that right) in diameter,
complete with lots of elements, are absolutely do-able without a steady
rest. This is the graduate-school, rocket-science of woodturning. And once
you master it, everything else in life is a piece of cake.

Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI

"dave_ipswich" wrote in ooglegroups.com...

Hi,


I'm a recent convert to woodturning and trying to turn some replacement
balusters for my 110 year old originals. They are 34" long and about
1/2" diameter at the thinnest points, turned from 1 1/4" square stock.


Whip is a bit of an issue. I thought I could improve things by using
oak rather than the original pine and whip is still a big issue. The
surface finish looks rather like a turtle's shell - the tool is
scooping out wood unevenly as the wood vibrates.


I thought I could cure the problem with a centre steady rest so I
slapped down the cash for a robert sorby steady with three steel
rollers and it's even worse. When I turn the lathe on there's a lot of
noise - I presume that the problem is that the wood I'm steadying isn't
perfectly round - because I had to rough it to circular unsupported.
The result is that the wood is now vibrating from contact with the
steady before I touch it with the gouge.


Depression is starting to set in - any hints on how to proceed would be
much appreciated.


Dave
Ipswich, UK



dave_ipswich January 26th 07 05:18 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
I'll definitely try loosening the tailstock. Any other recommendations
for a better wood than oak?

On 26 Jan, 12:39, "George" wrote:
"dave_ipswich" wrote in ooglegroups.com...



Hi,


I'm a recent convert to woodturning and trying to turn some replacement
balusters for my 110 year old originals. They are 34" long and about
1/2" diameter at the thinnest points, turned from 1 1/4" square stock.


Whip is a bit of an issue. I thought I could improve things by using
oak rather than the original pine and whip is still a big issue. The
surface finish looks rather like a turtle's shell - the tool is
scooping out wood unevenly as the wood vibrates.


I thought I could cure the problem with a centre steady rest so I
slapped down the cash for a robert sorby steady with three steel
rollers and it's even worse. When I turn the lathe on there's a lot of
noise - I presume that the problem is that the wood I'm steadying isn't
perfectly round - because I had to rough it to circular unsupported.
The result is that the wood is now vibrating from contact with the
steady before I touch it with the gouge.


Depression is starting to set in - any hints on how to proceed would be
much appreciated.Couple of things to begin with. Make sure you're not flexing the piece at

the outset with too much pressure from the tailstock. If a live center,
snug and then back off an eighth of a turn or so, keeping the point an cup
engaged.

Watch your cutting angle. Depending on the tool used, you'll want to cut
high on the piece with a skew, lower with a gouge, where the tool provides a
bit of clearance by its shape. I tend to wrap the steadying hand around
under when using a skew, behind on a gouge or chisel.

Then there's the problem of the differential density in oak to overcome.
Makes a non-flexible wheel on the steady more of a liability than a help
sometimes. Keep the tool firm to the rest and skim the chatter off in
stages if you must. Trying to steady a cut on a bouncing bevel won't work.



Charley January 26th 07 05:35 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
Dave,

I've had good luck making balisters from poplar. It's harder than pine, but
not quite as hard as oak, and the grain isn't as coarse so it cuts smoother
with less vibration. If I were trying to make something with only 1/2"
diameter in the middle, then that's the last cut that I would make. I would
work from the ends toward this and finish it up last.

--
Charley


"dave_ipswich" wrote in message
oups.com...
I did a bit at school 30 years ago. I bought a cheap nasty lathe at the
beginning of November, spent most of November learning to sharpen tools
and building jigs. I did a two day course at the beginning of December,
joined a club at the beginning of January, sold the cheap nasty lathe
and bought a Nova DVR XP in the middle of January. It's a clearly a bit
of an obsession but I'm enjoying it very much.

I'm turning down to the largest possible diameter for the steady but I
wonder if it's worth doing that say 6" from the end and then working my
way up the baluster in 6 inch sections?

Dave


On 26 Jan, 12:15, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:
Dave
How new are you to turning? 34" long with a 1/2" diameter anywhere near

the
middle, is tricky turn. There can be lots of vibration. First get some
practice pieces to "waste." To use a steady rest on a piece like this

you
need to rough down to a smooth circle in the cneter of the piece. If you

are
using 1 1/4" stock, aim for a 1 1/8" circle, not 1/2". Never mind what

the
actual diameter is dupposed to be at center, turn to the largest

diameter
you can for the steady rest. Then work the tail stock end. move the

steady
rest down a bit to a finished diameter and turn the head stock end.
Practice, practice, practice. Hope this helps.

--

God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canadawww.aroundthewoods.com

"dave_ipswich" wrote in

ooglegroups.com...

Hi,


I'm a recent convert to woodturning and trying to turn some

replacement
balusters for my 110 year old originals. They are 34" long and about
1/2" diameter at the thinnest points, turned from 1 1/4" square stock.


Whip is a bit of an issue. I thought I could improve things by using
oak rather than the original pine and whip is still a big issue. The
surface finish looks rather like a turtle's shell - the tool is
scooping out wood unevenly as the wood vibrates.


I thought I could cure the problem with a centre steady rest so I
slapped down the cash for a robert sorby steady with three steel
rollers and it's even worse. When I turn the lathe on there's a lot of
noise - I presume that the problem is that the wood I'm steadying

isn't
perfectly round - because I had to rough it to circular unsupported.
The result is that the wood is now vibrating from contact with the
steady before I touch it with the gouge.


Depression is starting to set in - any hints on how to proceed would

be
much appreciated.


Dave
Ipswich, UK





George January 26th 07 06:00 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 

"dave_ipswich" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'll definitely try loosening the tailstock. Any other recommendations
for a better wood than oak?


Something like your cherry or one of the maples would be more even and
probably easier to work with. Think you've got one you call sycamore over
there that would work. Truth is, if you had rived oak or real straight
stock, your differences would be less noticeable, perhaps to the point of
vanishing.

I use a straight chisel skewed so the exit trails the cut, which bridges the
differences in hardness along the length of the grain as the best way to get
things smooth. Don't press at all after entry. If your design permits,
enter the cut near the end where support is better, and plane toward the
middle for smooth.



[email protected] January 26th 07 06:52 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
Dave like Arch said
Arch you where faster on the draw here, I was going to suggest the
same/similar idea, of the pipe to have the steady roll on, at least
initially, also I'm not to impressed with the Sorby steady, a home made
one with the larger inline skate wheels would be a big improvement I
think rather than those little hard wheels they use.
As for the choice of wood the Canada poplar is growing all over in NW
europe, and should be available also The Sycamore (Plane tree over
there) and yes several Maples are also a common tree, just try some to
see what works for you, but first improve the hardware.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

On Jan 26, 9:27 am, (Arch) wrote:
Hi Dave, Please don't turn if you are taking any anti depressants or
mood elevating beverages for your incipient depression. :)

It may not matter with balusters, but with very thin long rods, goblets,
etc. driving the blank with a chuck instead of a spur seems to help
prevent bowing. probably by compressing longitudinal fibers.

You've gotten some much better tips, but since you have already bought
the Sorby steady rest you might like to make a 'turtle' to use with it.
Nothing more than a short piece of black iron pipe, say 2 in. length X 2
in. diam. Drill and thread 3 holes around the circumference for three
3/8 or so bolts to bear against the middle of the wood blank. Adjust the
bolts to center the blank in the pipe and lock the bolts with two nuts
each. Then let the Sorby rollers ride on the round pipe avoiding the
bolt heads. Turn an adjacent section of the blank to round, remove the
turtle and use the steady while completing the baluster. Hope my
description isn't too confusing.

Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter

http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings



dave_ipswich January 27th 07 02:35 AM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
All,

Thanks for so many ideas and such a fast response - I'll get cracking
over the next few days and let you know how I get on.

Dave

On Jan 26, 5:52 pm, "
wrote:
Dave like Arch said
Arch you where faster on the draw here, I was going to suggest the
same/similar idea, of the pipe to have the steady roll on, at least
initially, also I'm not to impressed with the Sorby steady, a home made
one with the larger inline skate wheels would be a big improvement I
think rather than those little hard wheels they use.
As for the choice of wood the Canada poplar is growing all over in NW
europe, and should be available also The Sycamore (Plane tree over
there) and yes several Maples are also a common tree, just try some to
see what works for you, but first improve the hardware.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

On Jan 26, 9:27 am, (Arch) wrote:

Hi Dave, Please don't turn if you are taking any anti depressants or
mood elevating beverages for your incipient depression. :)


It may not matter with balusters, but with very thin long rods, goblets,
etc. driving the blank with a chuck instead of a spur seems to help
prevent bowing. probably by compressing longitudinal fibers.


You've gotten some much better tips, but since you have already bought
the Sorby steady rest you might like to make a 'turtle' to use with it.
Nothing more than a short piece of black iron pipe, say 2 in. length X 2
in. diam. Drill and thread 3 holes around the circumference for three
3/8 or so bolts to bear against the middle of the wood blank. Adjust the
bolts to center the blank in the pipe and lock the bolts with two nuts
each. Then let the Sorby rollers ride on the round pipe avoiding the
bolt heads. Turn an adjacent section of the blank to round, remove the
turtle and use the steady while completing the baluster. Hope my
description isn't too confusing.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings



Leo Lichtman January 27th 07 08:10 AM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
This is an untested idea, as far as I know, but it ought to work.
1.) Mount a short piece of your 1 1/4" stock on the lathe (between centers
or in a chuck.)
2.) Attach wooden pieces to it, with a hose clamp, and turn the outside of
the attached pieces round.
3.) Mount your 1 1/4" spindle blanks between centers, and attach the rounded
pieces in the middle with a hose clamp.
4.) Fit the steady rest over the round blocks.
5.) Turn the spindle to completion on both sides of the steady rest.*
6.) Move the steady rest to a finished area near the middle of the spindle,
and finish up.
_______________________
*You could remove the blocks/hose clamp and move the steady rest as soon as
you have a round area near the middle. Of course, leave any 1/2" parts to
be done last.





Michael Latcha January 27th 07 04:07 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
The slower speeds will be good, and if you have a variable speed lathe it's
worth finding a "sweet spot" for the speed that gives you the least whip.
Sometimes a tiny bit of speed change makes a tremendous difference in how
the spindle behaves.

Cherry might be just fine, certainly better then the oak.

If you wait until the spindle is whippy, adjusting the center rest as you've
described won't work because you are adjusting it to the spindle as it's
sagging due to its own weight and buckled from the compression of the
centers. As others have mentioned, if you want to use the steady rest, turn
the center portion of the blank round, apply the center rest, then work
around it for as long as possible. This method, however, is directly the
opposite the way you need to work. You want to start at the center and work
to the ends.

Best, in my mind, would be to learn to turn such things without the aid of a
steady rest... but that's me, not necessarily you.

Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI


"dave_ipswich" wrote in message
oups.com...
Michael,

I can go down to 100 rpm - presumably there will be other issues then?

I'm pretty confident the tools are sharp.

I do have some cherry - would that be suitable?

To centre the steady I just bring up each roller to touch the wood at
rest - is there a better way?

Dave


On 26 Jan, 12:30, "Michael Latcha" wrote:
110 years ago your spindles were turned were probably turned in less than
10
minutes each, on a foot-powered lathe without a steady rest. Humbling,
isn't it?

Things to try:

Slow your speed way down. 700 rpm is plenty, less if you can get it. At
this speed, a good surface can only come from a super-sharp tool. Have
you
checked that the steady rest is holding the spindle exactly on center?
If
not, it'll only make things worse.

Gouges will also make this situation worse, because they have more bevel
that has to rub. Skew chisels will give you a better cut. Even with a
steady rest, you'll have to support the cut with your leading
hand/fingers
curling around the spindle as you cut it.

Start at the middle of the spindle and work towards both ends. The idea
is
always to leave as much support as possible, for as long as possible.
Once
you turn a section 3"-6" long, sand it and leave it... at this
length/thickness, you can't go back (sometimes even to sand) without
chatter.

Try a different wood. Oak, with its hard/soft layers, is very hard to
turn
into long, thin spindles, and doesn't respond well to steady rests of
your
type. And if that coarse grain isn't perfectly aligned with the axis of
the
spindle, it'll be pretty weak too. I'm not sure if you can get poplar in
the UK, but that's what I'd try, at least for practice. If not, any
medium-hard wood without pronounced grain will do.

Practice, practice, practice on some boring wood, at what seems like
ridiculously slow speeds, always supporting your cut with your leading
hand,
trying to make the longest, thinnest spindle that you can. Spindles that
are 24" long or longer and 1/8" (yes, you read that right) in diameter,
complete with lots of elements, are absolutely do-able without a steady
rest. This is the graduate-school, rocket-science of woodturning. And
once
you master it, everything else in life is a piece of cake.

Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI

"dave_ipswich" wrote in
ooglegroups.com...

Hi,


I'm a recent convert to woodturning and trying to turn some replacement
balusters for my 110 year old originals. They are 34" long and about
1/2" diameter at the thinnest points, turned from 1 1/4" square stock.


Whip is a bit of an issue. I thought I could improve things by using
oak rather than the original pine and whip is still a big issue. The
surface finish looks rather like a turtle's shell - the tool is
scooping out wood unevenly as the wood vibrates.


I thought I could cure the problem with a centre steady rest so I
slapped down the cash for a robert sorby steady with three steel
rollers and it's even worse. When I turn the lathe on there's a lot of
noise - I presume that the problem is that the wood I'm steadying isn't
perfectly round - because I had to rough it to circular unsupported.
The result is that the wood is now vibrating from contact with the
steady before I touch it with the gouge.


Depression is starting to set in - any hints on how to proceed would be
much appreciated.


Dave
Ipswich, UK





Bill Rubenstein January 27th 07 04:34 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
Leo, Leo, Leo -- you obviously have way too much time to think g !!!!

Bill

Leo Lichtman wrote:
This is an untested idea, as far as I know, but it ought to work.
1.) Mount a short piece of your 1 1/4" stock on the lathe (between centers
or in a chuck.)
2.) Attach wooden pieces to it, with a hose clamp, and turn the outside of
the attached pieces round.
3.) Mount your 1 1/4" spindle blanks between centers, and attach the rounded
pieces in the middle with a hose clamp.
4.) Fit the steady rest over the round blocks.
5.) Turn the spindle to completion on both sides of the steady rest.*
6.) Move the steady rest to a finished area near the middle of the spindle,
and finish up.
_______________________
*You could remove the blocks/hose clamp and move the steady rest as soon as
you have a round area near the middle. Of course, leave any 1/2" parts to
be done last.





Darrell Feltmate January 27th 07 05:03 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
With all the advice here, including my own on steady rests, I agree with
Michael, a common occurence. My favorite "steady rest" for a spindle is my
hand wrapped around it while a skew does the work. In other words, practice,
practice, practice. I like to do this with 3/4" square pine scraps and turn
18" spindles with coves down to 1/8". Never mind how many I break! I did say
scrap did I not? :-)

--

God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com


"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
. net...
Leo, Leo, Leo -- you obviously have way too much time to think g !!!!

Bill

Leo Lichtman wrote:
This is an untested idea, as far as I know, but it ought to work.
1.) Mount a short piece of your 1 1/4" stock on the lathe (between
centers or in a chuck.)
2.) Attach wooden pieces to it, with a hose clamp, and turn the outside
of the attached pieces round.
3.) Mount your 1 1/4" spindle blanks between centers, and attach the
rounded pieces in the middle with a hose clamp.
4.) Fit the steady rest over the round blocks.
5.) Turn the spindle to completion on both sides of the steady rest.*
6.) Move the steady rest to a finished area near the middle of the
spindle, and finish up.
_______________________
*You could remove the blocks/hose clamp and move the steady rest as soon
as you have a round area near the middle. Of course, leave any 1/2"
parts to be done last.





George January 27th 07 05:54 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:xJKuh.187895$hn.177465@edtnps82...
With all the advice here, including my own on steady rests, I agree with
Michael, a common occurence. My favorite "steady rest" for a spindle is my
hand wrapped around it while a skew does the work. In other words,
practice, practice, practice. I like to do this with 3/4" square pine
scraps and turn 18" spindles with coves down to 1/8". Never mind how many
I break! I did say scrap did I not? :-)


Well, there is the final option of the spokeshave if the design permits.
Zero RPM.


Bill in Detroit January 27th 07 06:16 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
Arch wrote:
Hi Dave, Please don't turn if you are taking any anti depressants or
mood elevating beverages for your incipient depression. :)


It may not matter with balusters, but with very thin long rods, goblets,
etc. driving the blank with a chuck instead of a spur seems to help
prevent bowing. probably by compressing longitudinal fibers.


You've gotten some much better tips, but since you have already bought
the Sorby steady rest you might like to make a 'turtle' to use with it.
Nothing more than a short piece of black iron pipe, say 2 in. length X 2
in. diam. Drill and thread 3 holes around the circumference for three
3/8 or so bolts to bear against the middle of the wood blank.


Arch ... I'm trying to envision this assist; is this made with three
bolts or three at each end (six total)?

Bill

--
Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one
rascal less in the world.
Thomas Carlyle (1795 - 1881)
http://nmwoodworks.com


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Arch January 27th 07 07:11 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
St. Lou Bill, Leo L. doesn't have extra time. Just that Left Coast
guys think faster than Middle and Southern Americans ...and displaced
Hollanders. :)

Detroit Bill, I used three bolts, but I don't see why you couldn't wear
a belt & suspenders and use six. :)

Dave, I have to confess that I've only used a turtle on a metal lathe.
Our suggested devices for thin spindles are mostly to think & post
about. :) For actual turning we all end up using our hands or at most a
simple stick wedged between the ways and blank for back support.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings


[email protected] January 27th 07 08:18 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
Hi Bill

Stock used is usually square or close to it, now if you take a piece
of steel pipe that's able to slide on there, you'll need a stove bold
with a nut for each side on both ends.
So after drilling and tapping 8 holes, (4 on each side) slide the pipe
on, install the bolds with the nut already on it, now adjust the bolts
until the pipe is centered, then use the nut as a lock nut to prevent
the bolts from moving, place the steady and start turning.
The problem with what the other Leo is suggesting is that every piece
of lumber used, has to be the exact same of the one used to make the
shims, and the problem with the one I suggest is it is time consuming,
for you will have to centre the pipe every time, but they can work,
being able to turn without these "crutches" would be the best way, but
I digress.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

On Jan 27, 12:16 pm, Bill in Detroit wrote:
Arch wrote:
Hi Dave, Please don't turn if you are taking any anti depressants or
mood elevating beverages for your incipient depression. :)


It may not matter with balusters, but with very thin long rods, goblets,
etc. driving the blank with a chuck instead of a spur seems to help
prevent bowing. probably by compressing longitudinal fibers.


You've gotten some much better tips, but since you have already bought
the Sorby steady rest you might like to make a 'turtle' to use with it.
Nothing more than a short piece of black iron pipe, say 2 in. length X 2
in. diam. Drill and thread 3 holes around the circumference for three
3/8 or so bolts to bear against the middle of the wood blank.Arch ... I'm trying to envision this assist; is this made with three

bolts or three at each end (six total)?

Bill

--
Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one
rascal less in the world.
Thomas Carlyle (1795 - 1881)http://nmwoodworks.com

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Bill in Detroit January 28th 07 08:00 AM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
wrote:
Hi Bill

Stock used is usually square or close to it, now if you take a piece
of steel pipe that's able to slide on there, you'll need a stove bold
with a nut for each side on both ends.


That last part answers my question ... I couldn't see a way to make it
stable (in a reasonable amount of time) with just three bolts total. 3
(or 4) on each end makes sense. Four actually makes more sense because,
while three (on each end) makes sense only on round pieces, 4 can be
used for round, square and rectangular.

Bill

--
Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one
rascal less in the world.
Thomas Carlyle (1795 - 1881)
http://nmwoodworks.com


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BillR January 28th 07 12:18 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 

"dave_ipswich" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I'm a recent convert to woodturning and trying to turn some replacement
balusters for my 110 year old originals.


Dave
Ipswich, UK


Dave,

You have had many good suggestions. Here a quick and dirty one.

I came up with this idea after spending two days making a steady with ball
races and sturdy enough to survive a nuclear explosion only to find that I
had to use ear defenders because it made so much noise.

Turn your spindle blank to the largest diameter you can get out of the wood.
Get a piece of 4"x2" scrap of wood and cut a V slot in the end. Measure the
distance (take a wild guess) at the separation between the lower part of the
spindle and the bed of your lathe and cut off a length of the 4"x2". If your
guess is right you will have a block of wood which sits on the lathe bed
with the V cradling the spindle. A second piece of the 4"x2" is cut to sit
across the bed and the two screwed together. Clamp the second piece of wood
to the lathe.

I must admit that cutting the V block to the right length is a bit of a long
shot. So cut it short and put a slot in it for the fixing screw such that it
can be adjusted up and down.

Cut a third piece of wood as a strap to go across the top at least 4"x2" and
put a long wood screw in each side to clamp the spindle between the V block
and the strap.

Sand the spindle with 60/80 grit where the rest will fit and apply a liberal
amount of beeswax. Assemble the rest and marvel at the quietness.

You may wish to add some subtleties to the design. If you make the strap
piece longer such that it sticks out towards you, then you can leave the
inner clamp screw slightly loose and just rest your elbow on it when you are
cutting to bring on the pressure.

I can take a picture of mine and send it to you if you want to give it a
try. I can't post it for the group as my ISP doesn't support binaries.

BillR



Rick Carusi January 28th 07 03:15 PM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
With thw spindle at rest, it's hard to tell if you are deflecting the
stock, when setting the steadyrest. With part turning slow, I let the
peice just spin the roller, with a little friction from my fingers on the
roller.

"dave_ipswich" wrote in message
oups.com...
Michael,

I can go down to 100 rpm - presumably there will be other issues then?

I'm pretty confident the tools are sharp.

I do have some cherry - would that be suitable?

To centre the steady I just bring up each roller to touch the wood at
rest - is there a better way?

Dave





dave_ipswich January 29th 07 12:15 AM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
Makes sense to me - I'll give it a try
Dave

On Jan 28, 2:15 pm, "Rick Carusi" wrote:
With thw spindle at rest, it's hard to tell if you are deflecting the
stock, when setting the steadyrest. With part turning slow, I let the
peice just spin the roller, with a little friction from my fingers on the
roller.

"dave_ipswich" wrote in ooglegroups.com...

Michael,


I can go down to 100 rpm - presumably there will be other issues then?


I'm pretty confident the tools are sharp.


I do have some cherry - would that be suitable?


To centre the steady I just bring up each roller to touch the wood at
rest - is there a better way?


Dave



Mark Fitzsimmons January 30th 07 01:17 AM

Help with steady rest on baluster
 
A couple more ideas in addition to all the other excellent advice.
I've turned some very long (30" by 3/4dia) spindles and have made them
quite smooth:

If your steady rest is on an uncentered bit of wood, you're right, it
will be bad before you start. Try making it close to round, then put
on the steady rest, then turn another part round right adjacent to the
steady rest, and repeat if necessary until it's smooth. Alternately,
start near the tailstock, turn round until it starts whipping, then
put the steady rest near the tailstock where it's smooth and
concentric, and make your way toward the center.

Don't put your steady rest *exactly* in the center for the final
turning, move it just a little to one side. if you're exactly at the
center you can get the second mode of vibration which is twice the
frequency of the primary whipping mode (the "jumprope" mode).

After you get the piece mounted, you can see what's about the right
force for the tailstock by tightening and loosening the tailstock
(just the tiniest amount) while it's spinning. Too much it will whip,
too little it will be loose on the cone. A spring loaded cone can
sometimes help in this instance.

Once it's roughly round, you can get a really smooth surface using a
hand plan for cylinders and cones. Use one of the very low angle block
planes that has a 5 or 10 degree blade, hold it as though you were
going to plane from head to tail or from tail to head stock, and
rotate just enough to bite off a super tiny shaving. If you do this
with your other palm on the back of the spindle, pressing gently
against the wood to keep it from whipping (DON"T wear gloves!!) you
can get a long smooth surface that's like glass this way.
Of course coves and such have to be done some other way.

Leave the smallest (1/2" dia, for example) cuts for last.







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