Hello All,
I still have not made anything decent with my lathe - two round things
from square stock and a rough looking goblet of sorts from a piece of
cherry. I have signed up for a bowl turning class at my local
Woodcraft for the end of this month so I am thinking along the right
lines.
My question to you all is about making a salad bowl from green wood.
Assuming the wood of choice is compatible with food, is there any
danger or problem in using the bowl immediately after it's turned? Can
an oil finish be applied to a green bowl? I am not concerned about
shape stability.

(I did a brief google search for green wood turning but after several
citations I could not find one specific to my concern so that's why I'm
asking)
Thanks in advance to everyone for your advice.
Marc

"marc rosen" writes:
My question to you all is about making a salad bowl from green wood.
Assuming the wood of choice is compatible with food, is there any
danger or problem in using the bowl immediately after it's turned? Can
an oil finish be applied to a green bowl? I am not concerned about
shape stability.

In general, wood can be used immediately after turning. Wood. Not
the finish, just the wood.

Yes, you can use an oil finish on a green bowl. It will still change
shape as it dries, of course. You may have to allow extra time for
drying and curing.

Nearly all finishes MUST have time to fully cure (not just dry) before
even considering food contact, and even then some finishes should be
avoided. When fully cured (say, a month or two), most finishes are
reasonably safe for food contact, but finishes that specifically say
they're for food use (or are food) are definitely preferred (some say
required).

For example, walnut (100% pure) oil or mineral oil are food safe
because they *are* food (vegetable oil goes rancid with age). Same
with pure beeswax or paraffin, they're edible so you can use them as
finishes. You can buy "salad bowl finish" too.

And, of course, the instructions on the can take precedence over any
of our nonsense you year on Usenet ;-)

Marc
If you are making a salad bowl from green wood to use immediately AND do not
mind if it distorts or cracks, use a wood that will not impart a taste, or
at least not and objectionable taste, and oil it. Since you are making a
salad bowl, a salad oil would be a good finish in this case. Do not use
olive oil. It is a furit oil, not a nut oil, and it may go rancid. Just
flood on a corn, canola, peanut or other nut oil, let it sit a while, and
then wipe off any excess.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"DJ Delorie" wrote in message
...

"marc rosen" writes:
My question to you all is about making a salad bowl from green wood.
Assuming the wood of choice is compatible with food, is there any
danger or problem in using the bowl immediately after it's turned? Can
an oil finish be applied to a green bowl? I am not concerned about
shape stability.

In general, wood can be used immediately after turning. Wood. Not
the finish, just the wood.

Yes, you can use an oil finish on a green bowl. It will still change
shape as it dries, of course. You may have to allow extra time for
drying and curing.

Nearly all finishes MUST have time to fully cure (not just dry) before
even considering food contact, and even then some finishes should be
avoided. When fully cured (say, a month or two), most finishes are
reasonably safe for food contact, but finishes that specifically say
they're for food use (or are food) are definitely preferred (some say
required).

For example, walnut (100% pure) oil or mineral oil are food safe
because they *are* food (vegetable oil goes rancid with age). Same
with pure beeswax or paraffin, they're edible so you can use them as
finishes. You can buy "salad bowl finish" too.

And, of course, the instructions on the can take precedence over any
of our nonsense you year on Usenet ;-)

"Darrell Feltmate" writes:
It is a fruit oil, not a nut oil, and it may go rancid. Just flood
on a corn, canola, peanut or other nut oil,

Botanically, corn is a fruit, as are all seeds and nuts. Corn oil is
not a nut oil, though. Canola is a seed oil (from the rapeseed
plant). Peanuts are beans (or peas), not nuts. But I think we all
knew what you meant anyway ;-)

Another warning: don't use a nut oil if the people using it are
allergic to nuts! Yes, you can argue that once it's fully cured
they'll never eat the oil itself, but why take a chance?

Marc, yes you can apply oil to a green bowl, to a salad bowl I would
put nothing but a food oil to it, if I wanted to eat out of that green
wood bowl.

We use a couple of bowls for food and salad, and have used a couple of
different oils in the last few years, never had any problem with oil
getting rancid, the bowls get washed long before any oil will get
rancid, the only problems that arise sometimes is the oil will get
build up and becomes sticky if not used and washed frequently, a good
soapy wash with warm water and rinse does take care of that.

If you are going to make that salad bowl, try to make it no thicker
than 1/2" and it will probably not crack, just warp a bit, and you will
be able to use it for a long long time.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo
http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum12.html

marc rosen wrote:
Hello All,
I still have not made anything decent with my lathe - two round things
from square stock and a rough looking goblet of sorts from a piece of
cherry. I have signed up for a bowl turning class at my local
Woodcraft for the end of this month so I am thinking along the right
lines.
My question to you all is about making a salad bowl from green wood.
Assuming the wood of choice is compatible with food, is there any
danger or problem in using the bowl immediately after it's turned? Can
an oil finish be applied to a green bowl? I am not concerned about
shape stability.

(I did a brief google search for green wood turning but after several
citations I could not find one specific to my concern so that's why I'm
asking)
Thanks in advance to everyone for your advice.
Marc

DJ Delorie wrote in :


"marc rosen" writes:
My question to you all is about making a salad bowl from green wood.
Assuming the wood of choice is compatible with food, is there any
danger or problem in using the bowl immediately after it's turned?
Can an oil finish be applied to a green bowl? I am not concerned
about shape stability.

In general, wood can be used immediately after turning. Wood. Not
the finish, just the wood.

Yes, you can use an oil finish on a green bowl. It will still change
shape as it dries, of course. You may have to allow extra time for
drying and curing.

Nearly all finishes MUST have time to fully cure (not just dry) before
even considering food contact, and even then some finishes should be
avoided. When fully cured (say, a month or two), most finishes are
reasonably safe for food contact, but finishes that specifically say
they're for food use (or are food) are definitely preferred (some say
required).

For example, walnut (100% pure) oil or mineral oil are food safe
because they *are* food (vegetable oil goes rancid with age). Same
with pure beeswax or paraffin, they're edible so you can use them as
finishes. You can buy "salad bowl finish" too.

And, of course, the instructions on the can take precedence over any
of our nonsense you year on Usenet ;-)

Mineral oil is a food? Take a shot of mineral oil, you may find that
food will try to escape from the other end. I've been wiping my salad
bowls with olive oil for at least thirty years and they still are
waiting to turn rancid. Might be the garlic. I believe Raffan uses olive
oil on most of his kitchen type stuff. Regards,
Hank

"DJ Delorie" wrote in message
...

"Darrell Feltmate" writes:
It is a fruit oil, not a nut oil, and it may go rancid. Just flood
on a corn, canola, peanut or other nut oil,

Botanically, corn is a fruit, as are all seeds and nuts. Corn oil is
not a nut oil, though. Canola is a seed oil (from the rapeseed
plant). Peanuts are beans (or peas), not nuts. But I think we all
knew what you meant anyway ;-)

Another warning: don't use a nut oil if the people using it are
allergic to nuts! Yes, you can argue that once it's fully cured
they'll never eat the oil itself, but why take a chance?

Or one could know that persons with nut allergies do _not_ have allergies to
the oil (fat), rather to the protein in the nut. Which is why
solvent-extracted oils are perfectly safe for them to eat and use, and even
"organic" stuff _should_ be according to the AAAAI. The amount available to
them on the surface of a bowl would be beyond vanishingly small.

Curing is the key point. If the oil cures fully, which some do, some don't,
there's no problem with rancidity. If it cures partially, permitting
bacterial or chemical reactions beyond full oxidation, can have a problem.
Supply plenty of oxygen. Don't nest your bowls for storage, don't give
bacteria and their chow a place to hide and operate by providing the
lipid-friendly environment a non-curing oil, even a non-reactive type like
petroleum oil can provide, and wipe with water/detergent before storage,
vinegar before use.

Any oil, even curing, won't on wet wood. You'll extend the gummy period, and
slow the wood drying process which ends the gummy period. Get as much
unbound water as possible out of the bowl during and after turning. Secure
and spin, run compressed air through it, what ever you have to do. After
that, it would be nice to let a 3/8 thick bowl have a couple of days before
oiling, though not absolutely necessary. Just know what's going to happen.

"George" writes:
Or one could know that persons with nut allergies do _not_ have
allergies to the oil (fat), rather to the protein in the nut.

The people with allergies don't often care about facts. "You used
PEANUT oil! OMG! I'm allergic to PEANUTS!"

"Henry St.Pierre" writes:
Mineral oil is a food? Take a shot of mineral oil, you may find that
food will try to escape from the other end.

I didn't say it was yummy or nutritious ;-)

The walnut oils are processed in 2 ways. One is pressed, which is what
the oils you get in the grocery store are. The other is distilled, or
heat processed. The oil that Mike Mahoney sells is heat processed. The
heating breaks down the proteins that cause the allregic reaction.

Green bowls are hard to sand because your sand paper will clog up a lot
faster. One of the rubber cleaning sticks will help clean it up some.
If turned to 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick, most bowls will reach equilibrium
in 1 to 2 weeks. Then they sand nicely.
robo hippy
wrote:
Marc, yes you can apply oil to a green bowl, to a salad bowl I would
put nothing but a food oil to it, if I wanted to eat out of that green
wood bowl.

We use a couple of bowls for food and salad, and have used a couple of
different oils in the last few years, never had any problem with oil
getting rancid, the bowls get washed long before any oil will get
rancid, the only problems that arise sometimes is the oil will get
build up and becomes sticky if not used and washed frequently, a good
soapy wash with warm water and rinse does take care of that.

If you are going to make that salad bowl, try to make it no thicker
than 1/2" and it will probably not crack, just warp a bit, and you will
be able to use it for a long long time.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo
http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum12.html

marc rosen wrote:
Hello All,
I still have not made anything decent with my lathe - two round things
from square stock and a rough looking goblet of sorts from a piece of
cherry. I have signed up for a bowl turning class at my local
Woodcraft for the end of this month so I am thinking along the right
lines.
My question to you all is about making a salad bowl from green wood.
Assuming the wood of choice is compatible with food, is there any
danger or problem in using the bowl immediately after it's turned? Can
an oil finish be applied to a green bowl? I am not concerned about
shape stability.

(I did a brief google search for green wood turning but after several
citations I could not find one specific to my concern so that's why I'm
asking)
Thanks in advance to everyone for your advice.
Marc

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:22:38 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:

"George" writes:
Or one could know that persons with nut allergies do _not_ have
allergies to the oil (fat), rather to the protein in the nut.

The people with allergies don't often care about facts. "You used
PEANUT oil! OMG! I'm allergic to PEANUTS!"

"Allergic to peanuts" doesn't necessarily mean "breaks out in annoying
rash", it can mean "falls to the floor in anaphylactic shock and dies".
If one can die as a result of a mistake then it's generally good policy to
err on the side of caution.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:22:38 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:

"George" writes:
Or one could know that persons with nut allergies do _not_ have
allergies to the oil (fat), rather to the protein in the nut.

The people with allergies don't often care about facts. "You used
PEANUT oil! OMG! I'm allergic to PEANUTS!"

"Allergic to peanuts" doesn't necessarily mean "breaks out in annoying
rash", it can mean "falls to the floor in anaphylactic shock and dies".
If one can die as a result of a mistake then it's generally good policy to
err on the side of caution.


You're a lawyer, aren't you?

100% guarantee, or I can collect a fee....

On 11 Jan 2007 18:40:31 -0800, "marc rosen" wrote:

Hello All,
I still have not made anything decent with my lathe - two round things
from square stock and a rough looking goblet of sorts from a piece of
cherry. I have signed up for a bowl turning class at my local
Woodcraft for the end of this month so I am thinking along the right
lines.
My question to you all is about making a salad bowl from green wood.
Assuming the wood of choice is compatible with food, is there any
danger or problem in using the bowl immediately after it's turned? Can
an oil finish be applied to a green bowl? I am not concerned about
shape stability.

(I did a brief google search for green wood turning but after several
citations I could not find one specific to my concern so that's why I'm
asking)
Thanks in advance to everyone for your advice.
Marc

Hi Marc,

I'm certainly not the most prolific nor the most knowledgable turner
on this group, but I have been doing it for a little while.

Here's my procedure for green wood-

I turn it thin- about 3/16", sometimes a little thinner. After I get
to about 3/8" of an inch in thickness, I start to jack up the speed.
Right here, you've got some risk management to do- speeding up the
lathe will help spin the water out of the wood, but that may cause it
to crack- and if thin wood cracks when it's going at 2150 or 3000 rpm,
it's going to be loud, and possibly dangerous. It's *usually* not a
problem, but I've had a few pieces blow up like wooden bombs, so wear
a face sheild and cut gingerly.

Then, I start sanding at high speed. At this point, it is less about
sanding than it is about friction-heating the wood to drive out even
more moisture. Be very careful when sanding the insides, though- it's
easy to really twist a finger when reaching inside a fast moving
piece.

Periodically, I shut off the lathe to take a look at the coloration of
the wood- where it is dry, it will be noticably lighter, where wet,
much darker. Once it is dry to my satistfaction, I slow the lathe
down to about 500 rpm, and sand through the grits until I'm happy with
the finish, speed it back up and burnish with a handful of chips and
sawdust, and then finish it off with shellac or polyurethane.

About 90% of the time, this results in pieces that do not warp or
crack. I have occasionally fully immersed smaller pieces in (tung)
oil, soaked them for a while and then allowed them to cure, and it
works fine- but there's a long cure time involved. Shellac and
water-bourne poly will dry very quickly, allowing you to apply
multiple coats in a short span of time, and they are generally fully
cured and non-toxic within 24 hours (according to the directions).
The advantage of that, especially if you are brushing on the finish,
is that you can build a reasonable water barrier up right away, so
that any remaining moisture in the piece is trapped. Some will
undoubtedly argue with the value of that, as turning and finishing wet
wood is more of an arcane branch of voodoo than a real science- but so
far, it's been working out well for me.

It's also interesting to note that M&M candy is coated in thin layer
of shellac- which is why it "melts in your mouth, not in your hand".
If that isn't a food safe finish, I don't know what is!

Hey All,
Thank you for the replies and suggestions. I am going to wait until I
take that bowl turning class before I "try this at home" and make a
few green bowls (and other stuff as well). I have a few green species
available to me so I'll be looking up to see which ones are food
compatible too. Thanks again for the advice.

Marc