The annals of woodturning are usually filled with opinions and advice
regarding techniques of turning and equipment to buy, but lately they've
been about a perception that we must learn and apply the principles of
classic form and design.

At times, we have all found a wrong technique, a cheap tool or a poor
design that worked better than the the 'only way'. We went ahead and
did it once 'our way' with success, but we felt a need to explain our
fall from grace, even to apologize for a transgression. We sure didn't
pursue it.

If you always follow the crowd, I guess you can never get ahead of the
crowd. There was a time when David Ellsworth's small orifice hollow
forms were a lonely 'leading edge'. Then they became the expert's 'state
of the art' and later on became the advanced turners' "speciality".
Now with the help of special tools and widely available instruction they
are a popular 'staple' turned by many followers.

I wonder if breaking the rules of classic design or the standards of
today is a bad thing. Are imaginative turners often the exception that
proves the rule? Their leading edge becomes state of the art and will
become accepted norm. Maybe their vision is better than ours, but just
maybe they are brash enough to leave the pack, even if it tarnishes the
golden ratio.

It seems to me that if everyone turned according to a golden ratio and
current fashion, the turning world would by definition, be filled with
average work, tiresome even when crafted to high standards.

We all protest "I turn how & what pleases me", but most of us, are
closet conformists. If you don't believe me look at the turnings around
you. The classics abound, but the innovations stand out. Whether that's
good or bad should be strictly your call.

To the majority of us average types who break the rules of accepted
style and design now and then; feel pride not failure. To the few who
leave the crowd to make new rules only to have them broken later; thanks
and rock on!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Good stuff there, Arch. I agree with everything you said and don't
have anything to add.

Now go figure that.

Here are some tasty nuggets that I love.
(note to plagirarism police - all quotes duly attributed to the person
that put their thoughts into succint language. I am not sure to whom
the original thoughts belonged.)

*******************************
All progress has resulted from people who took unpopular positions.

Adlai Stevenson

******************************

People would rather be wrong than be different.

Henry Jacobsen

********************************

Nothing pains some people more than having to think.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

*********************************

When all think alike, then no one is thinking.

Walter Lippman

*********************************

Once in a while it really hits people that they don't have to
experience the world in the way they have been told to.

Alan Keightley

*********************************

Great things are not accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads
and popular opinion.

Charles Kuralt

*********************************

People should think things out fresh and not just accept conventional
terms and the conventional way of doing things.

R. Buckminster Fuller

********************************


++ and arguably the best ++

Nonconformists travel as a rule in bunches. You rarely find a
nonconformist who goes it alone. And woe to him inside a nonconformist
clique who does not conform with nonconformity.

Eric Hoffer

*********************************

Thanks, Arch. I am raising my coffee cup toasting my total agreement
with you.

Robert

My favorite:

"You can tell the pioneers by the arrows in their back"

Not sure who said it but it sure rings true at times

Bill W

" wrote in message
oups.com...
My favorite:

"You can tell the pioneers by the arrows in their back"

Not sure who said it but it sure rings true at times


Or as we used to say when the brass called us the spearhead," even in
metaphor, the GI gets the shaft. "

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:51:37 -0500, (Arch) wrote:

The annals of woodturning are usually filled with opinions and advice
regarding techniques of turning and equipment to buy, but lately they've
been about a perception that we must learn and apply the principles of
classic form and design.

At times, we have all found a wrong technique, a cheap tool or a poor
design that worked better than the the 'only way'. We went ahead and
did it once 'our way' with success, but we felt a need to explain our
fall from grace, even to apologize for a transgression. We sure didn't
pursue it.

If you always follow the crowd, I guess you can never get ahead of the
crowd. There was a time when David Ellsworth's small orifice hollow
forms were a lonely 'leading edge'. Then they became the expert's 'state
of the art' and later on became the advanced turners' "speciality".
Now with the help of special tools and widely available instruction they
are a popular 'staple' turned by many followers.

I wonder if breaking the rules of classic design or the standards of
today is a bad thing. Are imaginative turners often the exception that
proves the rule? Their leading edge becomes state of the art and will
become accepted norm. Maybe their vision is better than ours, but just
maybe they are brash enough to leave the pack, even if it tarnishes the
golden ratio.

It seems to me that if everyone turned according to a golden ratio and
current fashion, the turning world would by definition, be filled with
average work, tiresome even when crafted to high standards.

We all protest "I turn how & what pleases me", but most of us, are
closet conformists. If you don't believe me look at the turnings around
you. The classics abound, but the innovations stand out. Whether that's
good or bad should be strictly your call.

To the majority of us average types who break the rules of accepted
style and design now and then; feel pride not failure. To the few who
leave the crowd to make new rules only to have them broken later; thanks
and rock on!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings


Heresy! Anathema! Strike down such reactionary thoughts!*G*

Leif

"George" George@least wrote:


" wrote in message
oups.com...
My favorite:

"You can tell the pioneers by the arrows in their back"

Not sure who said it but it sure rings true at times


Or as we used to say when the brass called us the spearhead," even in
metaphor, the GI gets the shaft. "




Then there's always what they say about the lead dog ...

"Arch" wrote in message
...
I wonder if breaking the rules of classic design or the standards of
today is a bad thing. Are imaginative turners often the exception that
proves the rule? Their leading edge becomes state of the art and will
become accepted norm. Maybe their vision is better than ours, but just
maybe they are brash enough to leave the pack, even if it tarnishes the
golden ratio.

Well, slow this morning, so I'll drop a couple of ideas.

First, it's only design convention you have to deal with. If we keep
calling things "rules" or "laws" which are merely convention, and saying
that any rule is made to be broken, how are we going to teach them what a
real rule is? A rule arises of necessity and serves a purpose. It's not
for conformity that we have traffic rules, it's for safety. In the shop
there is no more important safety rule ....

Imaginative turners? Odds on they ended up with what is new to us by sheer
accident. In any case, they can never make something out of nothing.
Whatever they do is from their experience - vicarious or personal. Problem
with defying convention, once again, is that certain proportions or patterns
appear to be genetically implanted as favorable, which is why they're so
popular. Makes it a hard thing to deviate from them.

Of course the mind and mouth can try to overcome any reality, so with some
advertising, some intimidation - if you can't see the beauty, you're a
cretin - and a lot of luck, the thing might sell. Of course, it helps if
your avant-garde artist closely follows the stereotype of the avant-garde
artist in his dress, lack of deportment and self-control, or so it seems.
Seems you still have to conform to be a non-conformist.

I suppose I'm no different than most turners. I see what appeals to me,
except for ... and make something similar which incorporates my idea. Along
the way I may ask "what if" a few times, and the next thing you know I have
six or seven variations. Don't have to tell you that there's only one
favorite and three or four that don't work at all, do I? Been there?

Now, if I'm lucky, someone buys one of the pieces, a couple friends get
similar, and pretty soon I'm "the guy who makes X," in conversation. Hey,
I'll take it, I'll make it, but this week was really the time for Y in my
heart. It's flattering for people to come seek out pieces similar to what
they bought before, but what I love are those who have a dozen or more which
look nothing like each other. One family came to a regular show with a nice
PowerPoint presentation on the laptop featuring their house, selected music,
and views of their display turnings. Most of which are things I don't do
any more.

Of course, this year the last one graduates, and I can push on to the truly
outrageous, because I don't have to sell them to pay tuition and books....

Hi George. Thanks for keeping my sinking dredge afloat one more day.
I probably wasn't careful enough with the meaning of 'rule'. I meant
"rule" as "guide for conduct", an "accepted procedure", a
"custom or habit", a "regulating principle" "a usually valid
generalization": Webster.

I think of imaginative turners as those rare people among us who can
recognize there might be a pearl hidden in an accident. They follow up
on unexpected outcomes that result from an unacceptable procedure or
departure from convention. Once in a blue moon something "new to us"
comes out of this and it's not just by chance.

There is no better example than yourself. Some of your methods and
thinking about wood and how to turn it seem (to me) not to run with the
herd, but they work and if they happened by accident, you followed up.

We may not always be comfortable with your posts George, but you keep us
on track and deserve our thanks. This ng isn't just about comfort.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Arch wrote:

snip


I think of imaginative turners as those rare people among us who can
recognize there might be a pearl hidden in an accident. They follow up
on unexpected outcomes that result from an unacceptable procedure or
departure from convention. Once in a blue moon something "new to us"
comes out of this and it's not just by chance.


When I was teaching lost wax casting of jewelry, a student would
occassionally break all the rules of casting and do something
that "couldn't be done". I called such a student a Bumble Bee.
A bumble bee's wings just couldn't provice enough lift to get
it's body off the ground - and yet they fly.

Turns out we were applying the wrong rules of aerodynamics
to the bumble bee. When high speed cameras allowed us to
see HOW their wings actually were working, rather than the
way we assumed they were working, their ability to fly was no
longer confounding..

So when I had a bumble bee student we'd go through exactly
what he or she did to produce the "impossible" and try to
repeat it. Sometimes it was just a "the stars were right"
thing that we couldn't reproduce. But sometimes the key
to why it worked was found - and included in the handouts
for subsequent classes. It might never be used by anyone
again, but, as a teacher, my job was to make the possibilities
available to my students. What they did with that info
was up to them.

Having people who test the bounds is what keeps things
growing, expanding, and interesting. But Gerry Knox
Bennett still puts my teeth on edge and sometimes
gets me to say out loud "what a waste of wood, and talent!"

charlie b