Why Imitate Another Medium (Segmented, etc.)?
 

As I get more into turning I see works that baffle me.
Not because of their complexity, or the perceived
difficulty in turning such things, but because of the
apparent waste of time and a misuse of the medium
and the method - turning.

I'm probably going to step in it big time but -

Why go to all the trouble of precisely cutting
a bunch of pieces of several different kinds of
wood, glue them together and then turn them
to look like a ceramic piece whose patterns
are created with glazes when glazed ceramic
does it so much better? The thing that makes
turned wood different is the grain and color
of the wood and the finish(es) it will take.
But most segmented turnings I've seen don't
add these characteristics of wood to the piece
because the individual pieces are so small.

I can see doing laminates and segmented stuff
for the handle of a pool cue, but a pot or vase?

Why take a piece of wood and turn it into
a cowboy hat? The medium doesn't lend
itself to this application. The wood doesn't
add anything to the form. So why turn
a cowboy hat?

I wonder about the beautiful turned form,
with the spikes and knobs somehow added.
Why, when other mediums lend themselves
to this type of thing so much better -
and easier?

These things seem to me to be misuses
of the medium. With all the things one
can created with wood, a lathe, some
tools, hard earned skills and techniques,
why put them to these uses?

I can understand turning forms that could
be created in other ways, but are done
quicker and easier on a lathe, out of wood.
And the wood can add to the form to make
a more interesting/pleasing object.

I can understand turning a hollow form
so thin that it becomes translucent. That
can really show off the wonderousness of
some woods. The longevity of the piece
I question - but this type of thing is
pretty and fun to look at and examine.

I guess it's a Sir Edmund Hilary thing,
a version of "Because it's there" - in
this case "Because I can."

When I was a teacher, I made it a point
to repeatedly say "There's no such thing
as a dumb question. If you want to
know/understand something, have tried
to find the answer and haven't found the
answer - you won't be asking a dumb
question.".

In that spirit I ask "Why segmented
bowls? Why turned wooden cowboy
hats? "

charlie b
an admirer of woods
and the people who
use it well

Well, the segmented bowls I've turned may not be so fancy with all the
exotics arranged just so, but if I have a board with a QS edge grain
(like most of them), it produces a nice refractive effect with every
12th of a turn. Besides, it's a good way to make use of my scraps
(aaaugh!), and keep wifey happier. Tom

charlie b wrote:

In that spirit I ask "Why segmented
bowls? Why turned wooden cowboy
hats? "


Because we can, lad. Because we can.

Hello Charlie,

You are right, there are no stupid questions, mostly just stupid answers when
someone asks what some feel are stupid questions.

The cowboy hat came into being back in the early 1990's when Johannes Michelsen
turned a cowboy hat as a wedding present for a friend, who just happened to be
the director of the Woodturning Center in PA. It went over well and he turned a
few more, they sold well and he was asked to demonstrate how he did it and to
teach people how. These are a very complex turning and show great skill. That is
why people turn cowboy hats and other types of hats.

Most of the people who make complex segmented pieces enjoy the making up of the
rings and designs. When I first started turning, I didn't have anything but flat
boards to make bowls from. I used segmenting to make bowl blanks from flat
boards. Mine had no fancy designs, they were just bowls made up from flat
boards. As I recall, I had a lot of 1x2 inch stuff left over from some other
project, cut them up into segments, glued them into rings, stacked the rings and
glued them together to make a bowl blank. When I got hold of some larger wood, I
quit doing segmented work. However, the people who do fancy segmented bowls and
vessels like the design work and the making up of the bowl or vessel from a lot
of small pieces. They do this because they like to do it and because they can.

Over the last few years, there has been a great deal of effort being put in by
many woodturners to try to create "art", not by turning the piece, but by taking
a turned piece and carving it, abusing it, burning it, texturing it, and even
sawing it up and glueing it back together all in the name of art. The people who
do this and are artists to start with generally do it very well and create some
outstanding art pieces. Many people, who are not artists, try to do the same
thing and the pieces they create turn me off completely. Why do they do these
things, because "art" brings in more money than "craft" and people like to think
their work is worth what they have put into it in time and material, plus a
little bit more.

I probably haven't answered your questions, but maybe I've touched on some of
the reasons why these things are done. In the final analysis, it is probably for
the reason that someone else stated: because we can!

Fred Holder
http://www.fholder.com

In article , charlie b says...

As I get more into turning I see works that baffle me.
Not because of their complexity, or the perceived
difficulty in turning such things, but because of the
apparent waste of time and a misuse of the medium
and the method - turning.

I'm probably going to step in it big time but -

Why go to all the trouble of precisely cutting
a bunch of pieces of several different kinds of
wood, glue them together and then turn them
to look like a ceramic piece whose patterns
are created with glazes when glazed ceramic
does it so much better? The thing that makes
turned wood different is the grain and color
of the wood and the finish(es) it will take.
But most segmented turnings I've seen don't
add these characteristics of wood to the piece
because the individual pieces are so small.

I can see doing laminates and segmented stuff
for the handle of a pool cue, but a pot or vase?

Why take a piece of wood and turn it into
a cowboy hat? The medium doesn't lend
itself to this application. The wood doesn't
add anything to the form. So why turn
a cowboy hat?

I wonder about the beautiful turned form,
with the spikes and knobs somehow added.
Why, when other mediums lend themselves
to this type of thing so much better -
and easier?

These things seem to me to be misuses
of the medium. With all the things one
can created with wood, a lathe, some
tools, hard earned skills and techniques,
why put them to these uses?

I can understand turning forms that could
be created in other ways, but are done
quicker and easier on a lathe, out of wood.
And the wood can add to the form to make
a more interesting/pleasing object.

I can understand turning a hollow form
so thin that it becomes translucent. That
can really show off the wonderousness of
some woods. The longevity of the piece
I question - but this type of thing is
pretty and fun to look at and examine.

I guess it's a Sir Edmund Hilary thing,
a version of "Because it's there" - in
this case "Because I can."

When I was a teacher, I made it a point
to repeatedly say "There's no such thing
as a dumb question. If you want to
know/understand something, have tried
to find the answer and haven't found the
answer - you won't be asking a dumb
question.".

In that spirit I ask "Why segmented
bowls? Why turned wooden cowboy
hats? "

charlie b
an admirer of woods
and the people who
use it well

In article ,
charlie b wrote:


In that spirit I ask "Why segmented
bowls? Why turned wooden cowboy
hats? "
Because of the need for self expression? For example I might have
invested a lot of time and money into all the trappings needed for a
satisfying hobby or craft but there is not that adrenalin rush and
excitement after copying or being inspired by other similar objects.
Then suddenly I have the big idea and WOW. No one has done a cowboy hat,
or a 1 million piece segmented turning but I have and there is this big
rush, and it's all about me, and being original, and being different.
Without this basic instinct there would be no advance in art or science
or humanity. We are what we are because we can express ourselves in a
unique and different way, as in the same way we are all different and
unique.
So as much as I personally don't like some of the examples you mention I
have to recognise the fact that we can't or shouldn't be all turning out
the exact same crap. Diversification is the saviour of the human race
and life as we know it. So go out and diversify :-)
Peter

--
Remove no & spam to email

meet me at:
http://peterhyde.bravehost.com/

Fairy nuff Lobby, Fairy nuff!

Lobby Dosser wrote:
charlie b wrote:


In that spirit I ask "Why segmented
bowls? Why turned wooden cowboy
hats? "



Because we can, lad. Because we can.

Charlie,

Recognize that some people are task-oriented and others are
process-oriented. Some focus on the result (which is what I see you
doing) and others focus on the path to get the result (the people that
hundreds of hours gluing tiny pieces of wood together to make it look
like it isn't wood that is glued together). All points are valid.
Different strokes for different folks.

Let me ask in return, "why would anyone bother to paint a realistic
portrait when you could achieve a better result with a camera?" That
question had a dramatic effect on the shape of modern art, but people
still try to do it. To do it well in that manner is an impressive
acomplishment. Achieving that is what is it all about.

David


charlie b wrote:
As I get more into turning I see works that baffle me.
Not because of their complexity, or the perceived
difficulty in turning such things, but because of the
apparent waste of time and a misuse of the medium
and the method - turning.

I'm probably going to step in it big time but -

Why go to all the trouble of precisely cutting
a bunch of pieces of several different kinds of
wood, glue them together and then turn them
to look like a ceramic piece whose patterns
are created with glazes when glazed ceramic
does it so much better? The thing that makes
turned wood different is the grain and color
of the wood and the finish(es) it will take.
But most segmented turnings I've seen don't
add these characteristics of wood to the piece
because the individual pieces are so small.
[snip]

I look up from my desk and see :

1. Great Uncle Martin (name sake) Collar box 8" in diameter. Signed on the bottom -
varnish. Martin Eastburn 1913.
2. Uncle Dave Cowboy hat (one of two in the house) made from solid Maple.

3. Uncle Dave large offering dish (candy fruit....) in Spaded Maple.

Uncle Dave retired and started turning and now has upgraded to his third lathe.
He took three other men to buy it at the factory. Truck route and play in the
factory fun for all of the guys. The group turns hats. It is some process
and can be a real pain to produce the proper oval with a ... shape or a round or a ...
Everyone has a unique shape head and the wet bowl is kept that way and slowly
pressed to shape.

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Fred Holder wrote:
Hello Charlie,

You are right, there are no stupid questions, mostly just stupid answers when
someone asks what some feel are stupid questions.

The cowboy hat came into being back in the early 1990's when Johannes Michelsen
turned a cowboy hat as a wedding present for a friend, who just happened to be
the director of the Woodturning Center in PA. It went over well and he turned a
few more, they sold well and he was asked to demonstrate how he did it and to
teach people how. These are a very complex turning and show great skill. That is
why people turn cowboy hats and other types of hats.

Most of the people who make complex segmented pieces enjoy the making up of the
rings and designs. When I first started turning, I didn't have anything but flat
boards to make bowls from. I used segmenting to make bowl blanks from flat
boards. Mine had no fancy designs, they were just bowls made up from flat
boards. As I recall, I had a lot of 1x2 inch stuff left over from some other
project, cut them up into segments, glued them into rings, stacked the rings and
glued them together to make a bowl blank. When I got hold of some larger wood, I
quit doing segmented work. However, the people who do fancy segmented bowls and
vessels like the design work and the making up of the bowl or vessel from a lot
of small pieces. They do this because they like to do it and because they can.

Over the last few years, there has been a great deal of effort being put in by
many woodturners to try to create "art", not by turning the piece, but by taking
a turned piece and carving it, abusing it, burning it, texturing it, and even
sawing it up and glueing it back together all in the name of art. The people who
do this and are artists to start with generally do it very well and create some
outstanding art pieces. Many people, who are not artists, try to do the same
thing and the pieces they create turn me off completely. Why do they do these
things, because "art" brings in more money than "craft" and people like to think
their work is worth what they have put into it in time and material, plus a
little bit more.

I probably haven't answered your questions, but maybe I've touched on some of
the reasons why these things are done. In the final analysis, it is probably for
the reason that someone else stated: because we can!

Fred Holder
http://www.fholder.com

In article , charlie b says...

As I get more into turning I see works that baffle me.
Not because of their complexity, or the perceived
difficulty in turning such things, but because of the
apparent waste of time and a misuse of the medium
and the method - turning.

I'm probably going to step in it big time but -

Why go to all the trouble of precisely cutting
a bunch of pieces of several different kinds of
wood, glue them together and then turn them
to look like a ceramic piece whose patterns
are created with glazes when glazed ceramic
does it so much better? The thing that makes
turned wood different is the grain and color
of the wood and the finish(es) it will take.
But most segmented turnings I've seen don't
add these characteristics of wood to the piece
because the individual pieces are so small.

I can see doing laminates and segmented stuff
for the handle of a pool cue, but a pot or vase?

Why take a piece of wood and turn it into
a cowboy hat? The medium doesn't lend
itself to this application. The wood doesn't
add anything to the form. So why turn
a cowboy hat?

I wonder about the beautiful turned form,
with the spikes and knobs somehow added.
Why, when other mediums lend themselves
to this type of thing so much better -
and easier?

These things seem to me to be misuses
of the medium. With all the things one
can created with wood, a lathe, some
tools, hard earned skills and techniques,
why put them to these uses?

I can understand turning forms that could
be created in other ways, but are done
quicker and easier on a lathe, out of wood.
And the wood can add to the form to make
a more interesting/pleasing object.

I can understand turning a hollow form
so thin that it becomes translucent. That
can really show off the wonderousness of
some woods. The longevity of the piece
I question - but this type of thing is
pretty and fun to look at and examine.

I guess it's a Sir Edmund Hilary thing,
a version of "Because it's there" - in
this case "Because I can."

When I was a teacher, I made it a point
to repeatedly say "There's no such thing
as a dumb question. If you want to
know/understand something, have tried
to find the answer and haven't found the
answer - you won't be asking a dumb
question.".

In that spirit I ask "Why segmented
bowls? Why turned wooden cowboy
hats? "

charlie b
an admirer of woods
and the people who
use it well



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George Munn wrote:

Fairy nuff Lobby, Fairy nuff!

Good Lord, someone who knows!

I was Rank Bajin for a wee bit.


Lobby Dosser wrote:
charlie b wrote:


In that spirit I ask "Why segmented
bowls? Why turned wooden cowboy
hats? "



Because we can, lad. Because we can.

As I'd hoped, mine wasn't a dumb question.

I'd not thought of using chatoyancy some
woods exhibit as a critical design element

The idea of using small "scraps" rather
than throwing them away or burning
them is a good thing.

When wood in the desired dimensions
aren't available, laminating readily
available boards makes sense. But
even in cities there are trees cut
down and cut up. Being a good scrounger
and networking with the city's tree
cutting folks, arborists, tree trimmers
etc. can provide plenty of stuff to
turn.

Doing something no one's done before
is admirable. Buying the "secrets"
on a tape or DVD ...

I still don't understand why someone
would spend hundreds and hundreds
of hours making a tooth pick bridge
unless they couldn't do anything else
OR were trying very very hard to
avoid something or someone.

In the furniture making part of my
woodworking semi-addiction/
para-obsession/hobby, while requiring
a bit of planning and pre-wood
cutting/shaping. which are inter-
esting, it's the part that is actually
working with the wood that's most
enjoyable.

It's a pity that "artists" get paid
more for their work than a
"craftsman". Could be that the
latter is seen as someone who
"merely makes what another
designed" and therefore lacks the
critical creative gift. But to me,
it is obviously more difficult to
make something that is beautiful
to look at, nice to feel AND is
utilitarian (see Sam Maloof's
chairs, his rockers specifically,
or a small Krenov cabinet)

The Art World (how presumptuous)
is a speculative business. Works
are not valued for the skill and,
dare I say it, craftsmanship, but
rather as a bet that its value will
increase over time - sort of like
the more crass stock market. There
may be some appreciation of the
piece, but that's secondary to the
profit motive.

As for satisfying a need for self
expression - I agree that there's
a need that woodworking seems to
fill. But for me, it's those instances
when everything is going just so,
the eye, the hand, the tool and the
wood all work together just so -
the Zen thing of suchness

With turning, for me, it's taking
a piece of a fresh cut branch and
discovering how it works with
various tools - how it turns, that's
the fun part. Being able to start
with no idea of what will turn out
and then watching something
evolve as if by magic - in less
than an hour - still amazes me.

Fun stuff woodworking.
Turning is a pretty nice
branch of the calling.

charlie b

So did the Missionaries save you?
how's Elfy by the way LOL

Lobby Dosser wrote:
George Munn wrote:


Fairy nuff Lobby, Fairy nuff!


Good Lord, someone who knows!

I was Rank Bajin for a wee bit.


Lobby Dosser wrote:

charlie b wrote:



In that spirit I ask "Why segmented
bowls? Why turned wooden cowboy
hats? "



Because we can, lad. Because we can.

Charlie, CAN you turn a cowboy hat? Me neither, but those who can have my
utmost respect and admiration. So will you, if you learn how to do it well.

CAN you do segmented turning? Me neither, but again, those who can have my
utmost respect and admiration!

What is it they say, "Different strokes for different folks!"

Barry


"charlie b" wrote in message
...
As I get more into turning I see works that baffle me.
Not because of their complexity, or the perceived
difficulty in turning such things, but because of the
apparent waste of time and a misuse of the medium
and the method - turning.

I'm probably going to step in it big time but -

Why go to all the trouble of precisely cutting
a bunch of pieces of several different kinds of
wood, glue them together and then turn them
to look like a ceramic piece whose patterns
are created with glazes when glazed ceramic
does it so much better? The thing that makes
turned wood different is the grain and color
of the wood and the finish(es) it will take.
But most segmented turnings I've seen don't
add these characteristics of wood to the piece
because the individual pieces are so small.

I can see doing laminates and segmented stuff
for the handle of a pool cue, but a pot or vase?

Why take a piece of wood and turn it into
a cowboy hat? The medium doesn't lend
itself to this application. The wood doesn't
add anything to the form. So why turn
a cowboy hat?

I wonder about the beautiful turned form,
with the spikes and knobs somehow added.
Why, when other mediums lend themselves
to this type of thing so much better -
and easier?

These things seem to me to be misuses
of the medium. With all the things one
can created with wood, a lathe, some
tools, hard earned skills and techniques,
why put them to these uses?

I can understand turning forms that could
be created in other ways, but are done
quicker and easier on a lathe, out of wood.
And the wood can add to the form to make
a more interesting/pleasing object.

I can understand turning a hollow form
so thin that it becomes translucent. That
can really show off the wonderousness of
some woods. The longevity of the piece
I question - but this type of thing is
pretty and fun to look at and examine.

I guess it's a Sir Edmund Hilary thing,
a version of "Because it's there" - in
this case "Because I can."

When I was a teacher, I made it a point
to repeatedly say "There's no such thing
as a dumb question. If you want to
know/understand something, have tried
to find the answer and haven't found the
answer - you won't be asking a dumb
question.".

In that spirit I ask "Why segmented
bowls? Why turned wooden cowboy
hats? "

charlie b
an admirer of woods
and the people who
use it well

I would never be presumptive enough to call myself an "artist". On a good
day, when all things are going my way.......great piece of wood.......razor
sharp tools........not too hot or cold in the shop..........I might.......I
say MIGHT.......be a craftsman. If I ever get referred to by someone else
as being a "craftsman", my head will swell with pride.

Barry


"Fred Holder" wrote in message
...
Hello Charlie,

You are right, there are no stupid questions, mostly just stupid answers
when
someone asks what some feel are stupid questions.

The cowboy hat came into being back in the early 1990's when Johannes
Michelsen
turned a cowboy hat as a wedding present for a friend, who just happened
to be
the director of the Woodturning Center in PA. It went over well and he
turned a
few more, they sold well and he was asked to demonstrate how he did it
and to
teach people how. These are a very complex turning and show great skill.
That is
why people turn cowboy hats and other types of hats.

Most of the people who make complex segmented pieces enjoy the making up
of the
rings and designs. When I first started turning, I didn't have anything
but flat
boards to make bowls from. I used segmenting to make bowl blanks from flat
boards. Mine had no fancy designs, they were just bowls made up from flat
boards. As I recall, I had a lot of 1x2 inch stuff left over from some
other
project, cut them up into segments, glued them into rings, stacked the
rings and
glued them together to make a bowl blank. When I got hold of some larger
wood, I
quit doing segmented work. However, the people who do fancy segmented
bowls and
vessels like the design work and the making up of the bowl or vessel from
a lot
of small pieces. They do this because they like to do it and because they
can.

Over the last few years, there has been a great deal of effort being put
in by
many woodturners to try to create "art", not by turning the piece, but by
taking
a turned piece and carving it, abusing it, burning it, texturing it, and
even
sawing it up and glueing it back together all in the name of art. The
people who
do this and are artists to start with generally do it very well and create
some
outstanding art pieces. Many people, who are not artists, try to do the
same
thing and the pieces they create turn me off completely. Why do they do
these
things, because "art" brings in more money than "craft" and people like to
think
their work is worth what they have put into it in time and material, plus
a
little bit more.

I probably haven't answered your questions, but maybe I've touched on some
of
the reasons why these things are done. In the final analysis, it is
probably for
the reason that someone else stated: because we can!

Fred Holder
http://www.fholder.com

In article , charlie b says...

As I get more into turning I see works that baffle me.
Not because of their complexity, or the perceived
difficulty in turning such things, but because of the
apparent waste of time and a misuse of the medium
and the method - turning.

I'm probably going to step in it big time but -

Why go to all the trouble of precisely cutting
a bunch of pieces of several different kinds of
wood, glue them together and then turn them
to look like a ceramic piece whose patterns
are created with glazes when glazed ceramic
does it so much better? The thing that makes
turned wood different is the grain and color
of the wood and the finish(es) it will take.
But most segmented turnings I've seen don't
add these characteristics of wood to the piece
because the individual pieces are so small.

I can see doing laminates and segmented stuff
for the handle of a pool cue, but a pot or vase?

Why take a piece of wood and turn it into
a cowboy hat? The medium doesn't lend
itself to this application. The wood doesn't
add anything to the form. So why turn
a cowboy hat?

I wonder about the beautiful turned form,
with the spikes and knobs somehow added.
Why, when other mediums lend themselves
to this type of thing so much better -
and easier?

These things seem to me to be misuses
of the medium. With all the things one
can created with wood, a lathe, some
tools, hard earned skills and techniques,
why put them to these uses?

I can understand turning forms that could
be created in other ways, but are done
quicker and easier on a lathe, out of wood.
And the wood can add to the form to make
a more interesting/pleasing object.

I can understand turning a hollow form
so thin that it becomes translucent. That
can really show off the wonderousness of
some woods. The longevity of the piece
I question - but this type of thing is
pretty and fun to look at and examine.

I guess it's a Sir Edmund Hilary thing,
a version of "Because it's there" - in
this case "Because I can."

When I was a teacher, I made it a point
to repeatedly say "There's no such thing
as a dumb question. If you want to
know/understand something, have tried
to find the answer and haven't found the
answer - you won't be asking a dumb
question.".

In that spirit I ask "Why segmented
bowls? Why turned wooden cowboy
hats? "

charlie b
an admirer of woods
and the people who
use it well

Charile -

Several other things occurred to me while reading this thread:

1. With segmented bowls, you can easily save time and money by using flat
wood and making it have a nice pattern or contrast or whatever.
2. It occurred to me that perhaps the challenge is not so much the turning
as it is the process to get it. The building and avoiding cumulative
mistakes that only crop up when completed.

By #2, I mean the craftsman may have a need to express his/her precision for
something and doing a task that requires that precision may be very
gratifying to that person.

I look at woodworking in two very different ways... First, with furniture,
it has to be *precise* and *exact* to be completed correctly. Second, with
lathe work, it has to "flow" and be "smooth". This is shown in my
interests. Specifially, I like Arts & Crafts period work (I love the
precision). Then, I like the lathe work where it flows. It allows me to
use both the "precise" side of my brain (Furniture) and the "artsy" part of
my brain in watching my creation evolve in front of my eyes.

I dont know if that makes any sense, but with the lathe work, I dont have to
be as "precise" as I do with furniture building and it is a refreshing
change. However, when I feel the need to "build" and not "discover", I
build furniture (or as I am starting to do, segmented bowls). I really dont
care if other people like the work I do as long as I like it as I am not
doing it for them, I am doing it for me.

Either way, I love wood. It is too much fun (like computers).

Rob


"charlie b" wrote in message
...
As I'd hoped, mine wasn't a dumb question.

I'd not thought of using chatoyancy some
woods exhibit as a critical design element

The idea of using small "scraps" rather
than throwing them away or burning
them is a good thing.

When wood in the desired dimensions
aren't available, laminating readily
available boards makes sense. But
even in cities there are trees cut
down and cut up. Being a good scrounger
and networking with the city's tree
cutting folks, arborists, tree trimmers
etc. can provide plenty of stuff to
turn.

Doing something no one's done before
is admirable. Buying the "secrets"
on a tape or DVD ...

I still don't understand why someone
would spend hundreds and hundreds
of hours making a tooth pick bridge
unless they couldn't do anything else
OR were trying very very hard to
avoid something or someone.

In the furniture making part of my
woodworking semi-addiction/
para-obsession/hobby, while requiring
a bit of planning and pre-wood
cutting/shaping. which are inter-
esting, it's the part that is actually
working with the wood that's most
enjoyable.

It's a pity that "artists" get paid
more for their work than a
"craftsman". Could be that the
latter is seen as someone who
"merely makes what another
designed" and therefore lacks the
critical creative gift. But to me,
it is obviously more difficult to
make something that is beautiful
to look at, nice to feel AND is
utilitarian (see Sam Maloof's
chairs, his rockers specifically,
or a small Krenov cabinet)

The Art World (how presumptuous)
is a speculative business. Works
are not valued for the skill and,
dare I say it, craftsmanship, but
rather as a bet that its value will
increase over time - sort of like
the more crass stock market. There
may be some appreciation of the
piece, but that's secondary to the
profit motive.

As for satisfying a need for self
expression - I agree that there's
a need that woodworking seems to
fill. But for me, it's those instances
when everything is going just so,
the eye, the hand, the tool and the
wood all work together just so -
the Zen thing of suchness

With turning, for me, it's taking
a piece of a fresh cut branch and
discovering how it works with
various tools - how it turns, that's
the fun part. Being able to start
with no idea of what will turn out
and then watching something
evolve as if by magic - in less
than an hour - still amazes me.

Fun stuff woodworking.
Turning is a pretty nice
branch of the calling.

charlie b

I really dont
care if other people like the work I do as long as I like it as I am not
doing it for them, I am doing it for me.

I think this is a large part of the answer. It works for both the 'true'
artist and for the hobbyist. Both make what they want to make. The
artist may be more of a pioneer and the hobbyist a follower or copier.
The full time turner probably doesn't have time to experiment with the
more esoteric design variations. He needs production because the more he
turns out, the more he earns.

I'd like you to like my work but if you don't, and it satisfies me, that
is OK too.

Harry

Yeah, cool word. "Artist" can be anything but "craftsman" has to be good.
TomNie

"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message
...
I would never be presumptive enough to call myself an "artist". On a good
day, when all things are going my way.......great piece of
wood.......razor
sharp tools........not too hot or cold in the shop..........I
might.......I
say MIGHT.......be a craftsman. If I ever get referred to by someone else
as being a "craftsman", my head will swell with pride.

Barry


"Fred Holder" wrote in message
...
Hello Charlie,

You are right, there are no stupid questions, mostly just stupid answers
when
someone asks what some feel are stupid questions.

The cowboy hat came into being back in the early 1990's when Johannes
Michelsen
turned a cowboy hat as a wedding present for a friend, who just happened
to be
the director of the Woodturning Center in PA. It went over well and he
turned a
few more, they sold well and he was asked to demonstrate how he did it
and to
teach people how. These are a very complex turning and show great skill.
That is
why people turn cowboy hats and other types of hats.

Most of the people who make complex segmented pieces enjoy the making up
of the
rings and designs. When I first started turning, I didn't have anything
but flat
boards to make bowls from. I used segmenting to make bowl blanks from
flat
boards. Mine had no fancy designs, they were just bowls made up from flat
boards. As I recall, I had a lot of 1x2 inch stuff left over from some
other
project, cut them up into segments, glued them into rings, stacked the
rings and
glued them together to make a bowl blank. When I got hold of some larger
wood, I
quit doing segmented work. However, the people who do fancy segmented
bowls and
vessels like the design work and the making up of the bowl or vessel from
a lot
of small pieces. They do this because they like to do it and because they
can.

Over the last few years, there has been a great deal of effort being put
in by
many woodturners to try to create "art", not by turning the piece, but by
taking
a turned piece and carving it, abusing it, burning it, texturing it, and
even
sawing it up and glueing it back together all in the name of art. The
people who
do this and are artists to start with generally do it very well and
create
some
outstanding art pieces. Many people, who are not artists, try to do the
same
thing and the pieces they create turn me off completely. Why do they do
these
things, because "art" brings in more money than "craft" and people like
to
think
their work is worth what they have put into it in time and material, plus
a
little bit more.

I probably haven't answered your questions, but maybe I've touched on
some
of
the reasons why these things are done. In the final analysis, it is
probably for
the reason that someone else stated: because we can!

Fred Holder
http://www.fholder.com

In article , charlie b says...

As I get more into turning I see works that baffle me.
Not because of their complexity, or the perceived
difficulty in turning such things, but because of the
apparent waste of time and a misuse of the medium
and the method - turning.

I'm probably going to step in it big time but -

Why go to all the trouble of precisely cutting
a bunch of pieces of several different kinds of
wood, glue them together and then turn them
to look like a ceramic piece whose patterns
are created with glazes when glazed ceramic
does it so much better? The thing that makes
turned wood different is the grain and color
of the wood and the finish(es) it will take.
But most segmented turnings I've seen don't
add these characteristics of wood to the piece
because the individual pieces are so small.

I can see doing laminates and segmented stuff
for the handle of a pool cue, but a pot or vase?

Why take a piece of wood and turn it into
a cowboy hat? The medium doesn't lend
itself to this application. The wood doesn't
add anything to the form. So why turn
a cowboy hat?

I wonder about the beautiful turned form,
with the spikes and knobs somehow added.
Why, when other mediums lend themselves
to this type of thing so much better -
and easier?

These things seem to me to be misuses
of the medium. With all the things one
can created with wood, a lathe, some
tools, hard earned skills and techniques,
why put them to these uses?

I can understand turning forms that could
be created in other ways, but are done
quicker and easier on a lathe, out of wood.
And the wood can add to the form to make
a more interesting/pleasing object.

I can understand turning a hollow form
so thin that it becomes translucent. That
can really show off the wonderousness of
some woods. The longevity of the piece
I question - but this type of thing is
pretty and fun to look at and examine.

I guess it's a Sir Edmund Hilary thing,
a version of "Because it's there" - in
this case "Because I can."

When I was a teacher, I made it a point
to repeatedly say "There's no such thing
as a dumb question. If you want to
know/understand something, have tried
to find the answer and haven't found the
answer - you won't be asking a dumb
question.".

In that spirit I ask "Why segmented
bowls? Why turned wooden cowboy
hats? "

charlie b
an admirer of woods
and the people who
use it well

"Rob McConachie" writes:
1. With segmented bowls, you can easily save time and money by
using flat wood and making it have a nice pattern or contrast or
whatever.

Plus, your stock won't warp or twist as you turn it, and you don't
have to worry as much about end grain because there isn't any :-)

2. It occurred to me that perhaps the challenge is not so much the
turning as it is the process to get it.

This is somewhat where my opinion stands. To me, the lathe is just
another tool in my shop; next to the bandsaw and table saw in fact,
across from the jointer and drill press. I have absolutely no desire
to take pride in the fact that I can take a huge chunk of greed tree
trunk and turn it into a priceless bowl-shaped piece of wood. Yes,
I've done it, but it's a technique I find little use for in my work.

Segmented turnings let you create a starting blank that's designed for
your desired result. It won't warp, hardly changes shape at all, and
is a lot easier (for me at least) to turn. As for pride, heck, anyone
can take ONE piece of wood and make a bowl from it, but how many can
take 157 pieces of wood and make a bowl from it? From an achievement
point of view, I think more effort has to go into a segmented bowl to
get comparable results to a single-piece bowl. It's easy to show the
grain in a one-piece bowl, but it's HARD to show off birds-eye maple
in a segmented turning! It takes a lot of time and effort to get each
piece just right to get the desired effect.

And if you just want a bowl, heck, all the grain's pretty much going
in the right direction anyway.

Did I mention I don't like turning end grain? ;-)

References:
http://www.delorie.com/wood/projects/segbowllegs/
http://www.delorie.com/wood/projects/turnings/

George Munn wrote:

So did the Missionaries save you?

Oh Aye! Right shower they two.

how's Elfy by the way LOL

Hunkered doon on baith legs.

Here's a wee statue:

http://www.glasgowwestend.co.uk/gallery/Nov99.html


Lobby Dosser wrote:
George Munn wrote:


Fairy nuff Lobby, Fairy nuff!


Good Lord, someone who knows!

I was Rank Bajin for a wee bit.


Lobby Dosser wrote:

charlie b wrote:



In that spirit I ask "Why segmented
bowls? Why turned wooden cowboy
hats? "



Because we can, lad. Because we can.

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:10:36 -0400, "Rob McConachie"
wrote:

my brain in watching my creation evolve in front of my eyes.
............................................^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^

Now _there's_ a public school science teacher's nightmare sentence!


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

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Rob wrote: my brain in watching my creation evolve in front of my eyes.
...........................................^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
And Chuck wrote: Now _there's_ a public school science teacher's
nightmare sentence!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nice catch, Chuck. In a few words, Rob has melted away the barrier between
evolution and creationism.

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:55:46 -0700, charlie b wrote:

Charlie... like my dad used to say, "there's an ass for every seat"
what we perceive as normal may be boring or no challenge to others.. like
resawing a perfectly good slab of hardwood to book match a table top when the
slab is all ready big enough for a table top.. different things appeal to
different folks, etc...
Besides, most things are only kinky the first time.. *g*


As I get more into turning I see works that baffle me.
Not because of their complexity, or the perceived
difficulty in turning such things, but because of the
apparent waste of time and a misuse of the medium
and the method - turning.

I'm probably going to step in it big time but -

Why go to all the trouble of precisely cutting
a bunch of pieces of several different kinds of
wood, glue them together and then turn them
to look like a ceramic piece whose patterns
are created with glazes when glazed ceramic
does it so much better? The thing that makes
turned wood different is the grain and color
of the wood and the finish(es) it will take.
But most segmented turnings I've seen don't
add these characteristics of wood to the piece
because the individual pieces are so small.

I can see doing laminates and segmented stuff
for the handle of a pool cue, but a pot or vase?

Why take a piece of wood and turn it into
a cowboy hat? The medium doesn't lend
itself to this application. The wood doesn't
add anything to the form. So why turn
a cowboy hat?

I wonder about the beautiful turned form,
with the spikes and knobs somehow added.
Why, when other mediums lend themselves
to this type of thing so much better -
and easier?

These things seem to me to be misuses
of the medium. With all the things one
can created with wood, a lathe, some
tools, hard earned skills and techniques,
why put them to these uses?

I can understand turning forms that could
be created in other ways, but are done
quicker and easier on a lathe, out of wood.
And the wood can add to the form to make
a more interesting/pleasing object.

I can understand turning a hollow form
so thin that it becomes translucent. That
can really show off the wonderousness of
some woods. The longevity of the piece
I question - but this type of thing is
pretty and fun to look at and examine.

I guess it's a Sir Edmund Hilary thing,
a version of "Because it's there" - in
this case "Because I can."

When I was a teacher, I made it a point
to repeatedly say "There's no such thing
as a dumb question. If you want to
know/understand something, have tried
to find the answer and haven't found the
answer - you won't be asking a dumb
question.".

In that spirit I ask "Why segmented
bowls? Why turned wooden cowboy
hats? "

charlie b
an admirer of woods
and the people who
use it well



mac

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