On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 21:31:19 GMT, "Matthew Durkin"
strung together this:

"Alan" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I was in the process of replacing an old hanging light in my dining room
to
put up a new halogen 4 gang spotlight bank. When I took the old one down I
was faced with a bundle of 5 wires and I'm really confused.

3 black (2 of these were joined into one terminal so I have joined them
using a plastic block)

1 thick grey with a red and a bare copper (with a yellow and green sheath
on
it) coming out of it.

The old fitting only had 3 terminals in it.

I can't remember what went where and I afraid of blowing my house up!

I have attached a jpeg to illustrate.
Or you can go here and take a look www.alanpark.org.uk

Thanks in advance.

Alan.



Snip ropey advice

It looks like the three black wires would be the neutral with the red
being the switch wire, the permanent feed most likely goes to the
switch first. It might be wise to check this first with a multimeter
before connecting.
Are there any other lights in the room? I would say the three black
wires are most probably a neutral in and two out, one to the rest of
the lighting circuit and the other to wall lights at a guess.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

"Alan" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I was in the process of replacing an old hanging light in my dining room
to
put up a new halogen 4 gang spotlight bank. When I took the old one down I
was faced with a bundle of 5 wires and I'm really confused.

3 black (2 of these were joined into one terminal so I have joined them
using a plastic block)

1 thick grey with a red and a bare copper (with a yellow and green sheath
on
it) coming out of it.

The old fitting only had 3 terminals in it.

I can't remember what went where and I afraid of blowing my house up!

I have attached a jpeg to illustrate.
Or you can go here and take a look www.alanpark.org.uk

Thanks in advance.

Alan.



Hi Alan,
OK doesn't look particularly standard, but you'll have a mains feed in -
BLACK (neutral), RED (live) and Earth - the bare wire withe the green and
yellow sheath. The other 2 black wires (why they are both black I don't
know - one should be red) aer to your switch.
It also seems like the switch is being use to switch neutral, rather than
live.
Anyway, the two black joined together will be you neutral in from the feed
wires, and a wire to the switch. The other black will be the return from the
switch. So it looks like you should connect the black, and red on the right
to your light fitting, and the earth to an earth connector on the fitting
(if there is one). This means that you are actually switching neutral which
is non-standard but would work though you would always have a live feed to
the light socket which isn't desirable.

Ideally you should test all this out with a multimeter / circuit tester -
cheap ones are only about £10 - and it's better than blowing something up.
If you get one, turn off mains power and test resistance between the 3 black
wires with the switch on and off. you should be able to identify the switch
pair pretty easy. It is normal to then connect your live feed wire (red) to
one of the switch wires with a terminal block, and use the other switch wire
as the return live that is connected to the lamp along with the remaining
neutral (black) that you identified as not being a switch wire.
You should also attach a tag of red electrical tape to the black switch
wires to show that they are carrying live.


Hope this information helps.

"Matthew Durkin" wrote in message
...
"Alan" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I was in the process of replacing an old hanging light in my dining room
to
put up a new halogen 4 gang spotlight bank. When I took the old one down
I
was faced with a bundle of 5 wires and I'm really confused.

3 black (2 of these were joined into one terminal so I have joined them
using a plastic block)

1 thick grey with a red and a bare copper (with a yellow and green
sheath
on
it) coming out of it.

The old fitting only had 3 terminals in it.

I can't remember what went where and I afraid of blowing my house up!

I have attached a jpeg to illustrate.
Or you can go here and take a look www.alanpark.org.uk

Thanks in advance.

Alan.



Hi Alan,
OK doesn't look particularly standard, but you'll have a mains feed in -
BLACK (neutral), RED (live) and Earth - the bare wire withe the green and
yellow sheath. The other 2 black wires (why they are both black I don't
know - one should be red) aer to your switch.
It also seems like the switch is being use to switch neutral, rather than
live.
Anyway, the two black joined together will be you neutral in from the feed
wires, and a wire to the switch. The other black will be the return from
the
switch. So it looks like you should connect the black, and red on the
right
to your light fitting, and the earth to an earth connector on the fitting
(if there is one). This means that you are actually switching neutral
which
is non-standard but would work though you would always have a live feed to
the light socket which isn't desirable.

Ideally you should test all this out with a multimeter / circuit tester -
cheap ones are only about £10 - and it's better than blowing something up.
If you get one, turn off mains power and test resistance between the 3
black
wires with the switch on and off. you should be able to identify the
switch
pair pretty easy. It is normal to then connect your live feed wire (red)
to
one of the switch wires with a terminal block, and use the other switch
wire
as the return live that is connected to the lamp along with the remaining
neutral (black) that you identified as not being a switch wire.
You should also attach a tag of red electrical tape to the black switch
wires to show that they are carrying live.


Hope this information helps.

Thanks for the help. I don't really know what you mean with the explanation,
so I think I'll just ask an electrician to pop round and do it. Any idea on
how much it will cost?
Cheers.

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 21:31:19 GMT, "Matthew Durkin"
strung together this:

"Alan" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I was in the process of replacing an old hanging light in my dining
room
to
put up a new halogen 4 gang spotlight bank. When I took the old one
down I
was faced with a bundle of 5 wires and I'm really confused.

3 black (2 of these were joined into one terminal so I have joined them
using a plastic block)

1 thick grey with a red and a bare copper (with a yellow and green
sheath
on
it) coming out of it.

The old fitting only had 3 terminals in it.

I can't remember what went where and I afraid of blowing my house up!

I have attached a jpeg to illustrate.
Or you can go here and take a look www.alanpark.org.uk

Thanks in advance.

Alan.



Snip ropey advice

It looks like the three black wires would be the neutral with the red
being the switch wire, the permanent feed most likely goes to the
switch first. It might be wise to check this first with a multimeter
before connecting.
Are there any other lights in the room? I would say the three black
wires are most probably a neutral in and two out, one to the rest of
the lighting circuit and the other to wall lights at a guess.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
There is the kitchen light that now won't work.

"Alan" wrote in message
...

"Matthew Durkin" wrote in message
...
"Alan" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I was in the process of replacing an old hanging light in my dining
room
to
put up a new halogen 4 gang spotlight bank. When I took the old one
down
I
was faced with a bundle of 5 wires and I'm really confused.

3 black (2 of these were joined into one terminal so I have joined
them
using a plastic block)

1 thick grey with a red and a bare copper (with a yellow and green
sheath
on
it) coming out of it.

The old fitting only had 3 terminals in it.

I can't remember what went where and I afraid of blowing my house up!

I have attached a jpeg to illustrate.
Or you can go here and take a look www.alanpark.org.uk

Thanks in advance.

Alan.



Hi Alan,
OK doesn't look particularly standard, but you'll have a mains feed in -
BLACK (neutral), RED (live) and Earth - the bare wire withe the green
and
yellow sheath. The other 2 black wires (why they are both black I don't
know - one should be red) aer to your switch.
It also seems like the switch is being use to switch neutral, rather
than
live.
Anyway, the two black joined together will be you neutral in from the
feed
wires, and a wire to the switch. The other black will be the return from
the
switch. So it looks like you should connect the black, and red on the
right
to your light fitting, and the earth to an earth connector on the
fitting
(if there is one). This means that you are actually switching neutral
which
is non-standard but would work though you would always have a live feed
to
the light socket which isn't desirable.

Ideally you should test all this out with a multimeter / circuit
tester -
cheap ones are only about £10 - and it's better than blowing something
up.
If you get one, turn off mains power and test resistance between the 3
black
wires with the switch on and off. you should be able to identify the
switch
pair pretty easy. It is normal to then connect your live feed wire (red)
to
one of the switch wires with a terminal block, and use the other switch
wire
as the return live that is connected to the lamp along with the
remaining
neutral (black) that you identified as not being a switch wire.
You should also attach a tag of red electrical tape to the black switch
wires to show that they are carrying live.


Hope this information helps.

Thanks for the help. I don't really know what you mean with the
explanation,
so I think I'll just ask an electrician to pop round and do it. Any idea
on
how much it will cost?
Cheers.


not sure how much it would cost - should be a 15-30 minute job. You might
want to get him/her to have a quick look over your electrics in general - I
know people who have had electricians discover pretty dangerous wiring left
over by previous DIY bodges or bad electricians. You may find an electrician
unwilling to pop round for a 15 minute job like this anyway. I do all my own
wiring, but am an electrical and electronic engineer (and follow the wiring
regs!). Now when it comes to plumbing... ugh!
If you do a fair bit of DIY the Collins Comlpete DIY manual is great. It
covers loads of stuff and has pictures of a lot of things.

"Alan" wrote in message
...

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 21:31:19 GMT, "Matthew Durkin"
strung together this:

"Alan" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I was in the process of replacing an old hanging light in my dining
room
to
put up a new halogen 4 gang spotlight bank. When I took the old one
down I
was faced with a bundle of 5 wires and I'm really confused.

3 black (2 of these were joined into one terminal so I have joined
them
using a plastic block)

1 thick grey with a red and a bare copper (with a yellow and green
sheath
on
it) coming out of it.

The old fitting only had 3 terminals in it.

I can't remember what went where and I afraid of blowing my house up!

I have attached a jpeg to illustrate.
Or you can go here and take a look www.alanpark.org.uk

Thanks in advance.

Alan.



Snip ropey advice

It looks like the three black wires would be the neutral with the red
being the switch wire, the permanent feed most likely goes to the
switch first. It might be wise to check this first with a multimeter
before connecting.
Are there any other lights in the room? I would say the three black
wires are most probably a neutral in and two out, one to the rest of
the lighting circuit and the other to wall lights at a guess.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
There is the kitchen light that now won't work.


I second the testing with a multimeter first!

"Matthew Durkin" wrote in message
...
"Alan" wrote in message
...

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 21:31:19 GMT, "Matthew Durkin"
strung together this:

"Alan" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I was in the process of replacing an old hanging light in my dining
room
to
put up a new halogen 4 gang spotlight bank. When I took the old one
down I
was faced with a bundle of 5 wires and I'm really confused.

3 black (2 of these were joined into one terminal so I have joined
them
using a plastic block)

1 thick grey with a red and a bare copper (with a yellow and green
sheath
on
it) coming out of it.

The old fitting only had 3 terminals in it.

I can't remember what went where and I afraid of blowing my house
up!

I have attached a jpeg to illustrate.
Or you can go here and take a look www.alanpark.org.uk

Thanks in advance.

Alan.



Snip ropey advice

It looks like the three black wires would be the neutral with the red
being the switch wire, the permanent feed most likely goes to the
switch first. It might be wise to check this first with a multimeter
before connecting.
Are there any other lights in the room? I would say the three black
wires are most probably a neutral in and two out, one to the rest of
the lighting circuit and the other to wall lights at a guess.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
There is the kitchen light that now won't work.


I second the testing with a multimeter first!


Thanks for the help guys. I'll get an electrician to come and sort it out.
Not worth the risk just to save a few quid.
Alan.

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 21:48:01 GMT, "Alan"
strung together this:

It looks like the three black wires would be the neutral with the red
being the switch wire, the permanent feed most likely goes to the
switch first. It might be wise to check this first with a multimeter
before connecting.
Are there any other lights in the room? I would say the three black
wires are most probably a neutral in and two out, one to the rest of
the lighting circuit and the other to wall lights at a guess.
--
There is the kitchen light that now won't work.

Is that without the third black connected? If so then that will
probably be the neutral for the kitchen light. The only safe way to
find out is to use a multimeter.
As with regards to cost, (mentioned later in the thread), depends
where you are. Most probably between £20 and £50.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

In message ,
"Alan" wrote:



Thanks for the help. I don't really know what you mean with the explanation,
so I think I'll just ask an electrician to pop round and do it. Any idea on
how much it will cost?
Cheers.



Around here (Caerphilly/Cardiff), anything between £30 and £90 I'd say,
depending on size of company and call-out rates. That's if it is an easy
diagnose-and-fix. If there is indeed something else dodgy with your
wiring then you could be looking at substantially more if you want to
get it sorted.

For example, while wiring in "singles" isn't against the regulations,
those singles *should* be double-insulated (i.e. with a grey outer
sheath a bit like the red wire) and should probably also have their own
CPC (bare copper) too.

As for a guess at the wiring system, both competing theories are
possible, and IME you shouldn't think that one is more likely than the
other without thoroughly checking first. If you feel like it, taking the
switch plate off (with power off) might throw some light (ha ha) on the
matter.

If these wires are now dangling and you have the power back on, then it
is likely that at least some of them will be "live" (in the sense that
both "live" (phase) and "neutral" are "live" wires) so until the thing
is sorted it is probably best to have them all chocky-blocked up just in
case you have a tall and curious visitor =:-)

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... A clean desk is a sign of a -sick- mind