I need to add a new radiator to my house (hallway has none and it's
cold!)

I plan to tap into the CH Flow and Return pipes which already run
underneath there, and plan to use solder ring connections.

My question is this, the access panel for my crawl space is at the
opposite side of the house, so I have to go down beneath the floor and
haul myself along through the rubble to the place where the pipes will
go.

How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?

I'd rather not use 'speedfix' or compression if I can avoid it, just
for peice of mind.

-K

kmillar wrote:
I need to add a new radiator to my house (hallway has none and it's
cold!)

I plan to tap into the CH Flow and Return pipes which already run
underneath there, and plan to use solder ring connections.

My question is this, the access panel for my crawl space is at the
opposite side of the house, so I have to go down beneath the floor and
haul myself along through the rubble to the place where the pipes will
go.

How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?

I'd rather not use 'speedfix' or compression if I can avoid it, just
for peice of mind.

-K

so use copper pushfit instead ?

can't see what all the fuss is with pushfit, used correctly there's nothing
wrong with it nor is there anything to be ashmed of. purists may argue
differently but refusing to use pushfit over copper end feed is ludditism
of the highest order.


RT

In article .com
, kmillar writes
How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire,

I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?
Carbon Dioxide & water :-), you may get some smoke if you overcook the
flux but I wouldn't worry for one joint. Try to ventilate the space.
--
fred

kmillar wrote:
How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?

It'll be fine. It's not, or rather shouldn't be, a source of carbon
monoxide, and you won't need it on for long, anyway. Take care that hot
flux or solder doesn't drip on you.

Is there no way you can get at the job from above ? e.g. cutting a
piece of floorboard ? Working beneath the job in a confined space is
certain to be more difficult and prone to accident, e.g. touching hot
pipework / blowtorch, hot solder dripping onto you etc. I've been
under our floor with a similar space recently to run some electric
cables and it can be difficult to breath even without a blowtorch
stealing the oxygen and warming the air around.

Is there no way you can get at the job from above ?

Unfortunately not, a new laminate floor was put down just a few months
ago, and it can't be disturbed.

Thanks for all the advice, everyone.

In article .com,
"kmillar" writes:

How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?

I've done plenty of this and it hasn't been a problem.
I have only lit the blowlamp when I need to use it, which
means it will only operate upright as the preheat coil
doesn't get a chance to get to operating temperature, but
that's the only way up I need to use it under the floor.
It was not so much the fumes I was worried about as knocking
it over -- much of the underfloor space in my house seems to
have been used as the dumping area for a previously removed
smashed up floor together with wood shavings presumably left
from when the house was built, and I was concerned about
setting it alight. I took a 1kg dry powder extinguisher
with me under the floor too. It might be a good idea to have
someone else in the house too to keep an eye out incase you
get into some difficulty.

The other thing is remembering to take everything with you
when go down there. It's annoying to spend 5 minutes wriggling
from one end of the house to the other on your belly (through
the small holes someone else has fortunately already knocked
through the sleeper walls) only to find you've forgotten the
solder or flux or steel wool, and you've got to go all the
way back again!

One place I did notice the effect of the fumes was when
soldering in the back of a kitchen cupboard. It wasn't the
effect they had on me, but that they caused the 20 or so
spiders in the cupboard (the harvester things with long legs)
to all come running out at the same instant, all straight
into my face. Fortunately I don't have a problem with spiders,
but even so, it's not really what you want to happen when you
have a lighted blowlamp in hand.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article .com,
kmillar wrote:
How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?

The fumes from a blowlamp are really no different to the fumes from a gas
hob in the kitchen. And the floor void is hopefully ventilated, anyway.

But it's the one place I'd use my Antex Pipemaster electric pipe heater.
It's too painfully slow for other stuff, but ideal for this sort of
location if you're not too experienced. You might find one in a hire shop,
as they're costly at around 45 quid.

I'd rather not use 'speedfix' or compression if I can avoid it, just
for peice of mind.

Think you're being controversial. ;-)

--
*Am I ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
"kmillar" writes:

One place I did notice the effect of the fumes was when
soldering in the back of a kitchen cupboard. It wasn't the
effect they had on me, but that they caused the 20 or so
spiders in the cupboard (the harvester things with long legs)
to all come running out at the same instant, all straight
into my face. Fortunately I don't have a problem with spiders,
but even so, it's not really what you want to happen when you
have a lighted blowlamp in hand.

They are Cardinal Spiders, I know them very well since they haunt the
dark spaces under my floor.....

Andy

it's not really what you want to happen when you
have a lighted blowlamp in hand.
At the risk of upsetting the Arachnid rights lobby, I can't think of a
better time to be attacked by spiders than when I had a lighted
blowlamp in hand.

The other thing is remembering to take everything with you
when go down there. It's annoying to spend 5 minutes wriggling
from one end of the house to the other on your belly (through
the small holes someone else has fortunately already knocked
through the sleeper walls) only to find you've forgotten the
solder or flux or steel wool, and you've got to go all the
way back again!

Have you been round to my house? That's exactly what it's like!
And now that spring has sprung I'm expecting to come across loads of
spiders etc down there. Last time I was down was January when it was
too cold for spiders.

The recent rain and mild weather will soon have the place crawling with
them again no doubt.

Thanks again everyone.

In article .com,
"kmillar" writes:
Have you been round to my house? That's exactly what it's like!
And now that spring has sprung I'm expecting to come across loads of
spiders etc down there. Last time I was down was January when it was
too cold for spiders.

I've not seen any spiders under my floor. There are plenty of derelict
webs, but I rather suspect the owners were just occasional visitors
over the last 100 years and died of starvation as they didn't catch
any food.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 18 Mar 2005 03:44:05 -0800, "kmillar" wrote:

I need to add a new radiator to my house (hallway has none and it's
cold!)

I plan to tap into the CH Flow and Return pipes which already run
underneath there, and plan to use solder ring connections.

My question is this, the access panel for my crawl space is at the
opposite side of the house, so I have to go down beneath the floor and
haul myself along through the rubble to the place where the pipes will
go.

How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?

I'd rather not use 'speedfix' or compression if I can avoid it, just
for peice of mind.

-K

I took the following approach

1) clean out lots of rubble to make getting accross the space easier
2) make a comfotable working space - this is key, if you are in pain
when you work, you will mess it up, and its dangerous
3) get some good light in place
4) take all the tools down the hole I needed
5) use heatproff mats to protect the wood
6) keep the flame on for as little as possible, without being stupid
about it, you are only going to run the flame for a short time, so not
much air will be used up.

last and most important, if its a dangerous job, make sure sombody
else is arround in case all goes wrong. I work a lot on my own, and
when SHMBO is arround I do all the dangerous stuff

Rick

Rick wrote in
:

I work a lot on my own, and when SHMBO is arround I do all the dangerous
stuff

Haven't you got your priorities wrong here?

;o)

mike

On 18 Mar 2005 17:36:43 GMT, mike ring
wrote:

Rick wrote in
:

I work a lot on my own, and when SHMBO is arround I do all the dangerous
stuff

Haven't you got your priorities wrong here?

;o)

mike

If I wack myself with a hammer, it hurts, if I slip with a chainsaw I
need sombody to call the air ambulance :-) My neighbours are so far
away, they would not hear the screams, and sheep can't go get help -
useless animals.

Rick

kmillar wrote:

I need to add a new radiator to my house (hallway has none and it's
cold!)

I plan to tap into the CH Flow and Return pipes which already run
underneath there, and plan to use solder ring connections.

My question is this, the access panel for my crawl space is at the
opposite side of the house, so I have to go down beneath the floor and
haul myself along through the rubble to the place where the pipes will
go.

How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?


You will be fine. As long as its not hermetically sealed. You will
produce fumes faster than a few soldered joints with a torch will.

Anyway teh first signs of anoxia and CO2 overdose is feeling dizzy and
headachy, so just watch out for feeling rough, and if you do, break for
a cuppa.

In fact, do that anyway. wortkng in 15" of rubble infested space you
will need it.

Or if really paranoid use a fan. Coal miners work in less than 15"
sometimes. Forced air keeps them alive.




I'd rather not use 'speedfix' or compression if I can avoid it, just
for peice of mind.


Peace of mind? Or a piece of my mind?

-K

One place I did notice the effect of the fumes was when
soldering in the back of a kitchen cupboard. It wasn't the
effect they had on me, but that they caused the 20 or so
spiders in the cupboard (the harvester things with long legs)
to all come running out at the same instant, all straight
into my face. Fortunately I don't have a problem with spiders,
but even so, it's not really what you want to happen when you
have a lighted blowlamp in hand.

I would have thought a lit blowlamp was an ideal way to rid yourself of
these marauding aliens..

Rick wrote in
:


I work a lot on my own, and when SHMBO is arround I do all the
dangerous
stuff

Haven't you got your priorities wrong here?

;o)

mike

If I wack myself with a hammer, it hurts, if I slip with a chainsaw I
need sombody to call the air ambulance :-)

My idea was that SWMBO does the risky stuff while *you* be ready to call
999!

mike

Rick wrote:
If I wack myself with a hammer, it hurts, if I slip with a chainsaw I
need sombody to call the air ambulance :-) My neighbours are so far
away, they would not hear the screams, and sheep can't go get help -
useless animals.

That's why Lassie was a dog and why Perendale Rescue never made it as a
tv series, even in New Zealand

Owain

"[news]" wrote in message
news
kmillar wrote:
I need to add a new radiator to my house (hallway has none and it's
cold!)

I plan to tap into the CH Flow and Return pipes which already run
underneath there, and plan to use solder ring connections.

My question is this, the access panel for my crawl space is at the
opposite side of the house, so I have to go down beneath the floor and
haul myself along through the rubble to the place where the pipes will
go.

How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?

I'd rather not use 'speedfix' or compression if I can avoid it, just
for peice of mind.

-K

so use copper pushfit instead ?

can't see what all the fuss is with pushfit, used correctly there's
nothing
wrong with it nor is there anything to be ashmed of. purists may argue
differently but refusing to use pushfit over copper end feed is ludditism
of the highest order.

You really don't know do you? Best use solder as the space in generally
inaccessible.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
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http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

In message , Doctor Evil
writes
-K

so use copper pushfit instead ?

can't see what all the fuss is with pushfit, used correctly there's
nothing
wrong with it nor is there anything to be ashmed of. purists may argue
differently but refusing to use pushfit over copper end feed is ludditism
of the highest order.

You really don't know do you? Best use solder as the space in generally
inaccessible.

I thought your preferred method was pushfit and hacksaw

--
geoff

"kmillar" wrote in message
oups.com...
I need to add a new radiator to my house (hallway has none and it's
cold!)

I plan to tap into the CH Flow and Return pipes which already run
underneath there, and plan to use solder ring connections.

My question is this, the access panel for my crawl space is at the
opposite side of the house, so I have to go down beneath the floor and
haul myself along through the rubble to the place where the pipes will
go.

How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?

I'd rather not use 'speedfix' or compression if I can avoid it, just
for peice of mind.

Given all the additional precautions other posters have recommended this
does seem a high risk undertaking.

If you are averse to pushfit, have you considered compression joints?

The slightly higher cost will probably be offset by the lack of risk and
general issues over using a naked flame in a flammable substrate under a
wooden floor with a limited escape route.

Of course, real plumbers only use solder :-)

However, normal human beings can sometimes take alternative approaches.

HTH
Dave R

In article , David W.E. Roberts
writes

"kmillar" wrote in message
roups.com...
I need to add a new radiator to my house (hallway has none and it's
cold!)

I plan to tap into the CH Flow and Return pipes which already run
underneath there, and plan to use solder ring connections.

My question is this, the access panel for my crawl space is at the
opposite side of the house, so I have to go down beneath the floor and
haul myself along through the rubble to the place where the pipes will
go.

How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?

I'd rather not use 'speedfix' or compression if I can avoid it, just
for peice of mind.

Given all the additional precautions other posters have recommended this
does seem a high risk undertaking.

If you are averse to pushfit, have you considered compression joints?

The slightly higher cost will probably be offset by the lack of risk and
general issues over using a naked flame in a flammable substrate under a
wooden floor with a limited escape route.

Of course, real plumbers only use solder :-)

However, normal human beings can sometimes take alternative approaches.

HTH
Dave R


I think that is very good advice. If I were making some joints in a
rather inaccessible location where I couldn't be certain that I have
cleaned the pipe all the way round, or was unable to inspect the joint
either, I think I'd opt for compression fittings which I have done
before on some occasions.

Its not a case of being a real plumber at all, just horses for courses,
otherwise why do you think they still make 'em?.....
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
I think that is very good advice. If I were making some joints in a
rather inaccessible location where I couldn't be certain that I have
cleaned the pipe all the way round, or was unable to inspect the joint
either, I think I'd opt for compression fittings which I have done
before on some occasions.

Hmm. I'd like to be sure the pipe was clean and undamaged with compression
fittings too. And a scratch which might cause a problem with a compression
fitting won't with a solder type. Then there's the problem of tightening a
compression fitting in an inaccessible place.

Its not a case of being a real plumber at all, just horses for courses,
otherwise why do you think they still make 'em?.....

They allow dismantling.

--
*The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

raden wrote:

In message , Doctor Evil
writes

-K

so use copper pushfit instead ?

can't see what all the fuss is with pushfit, used correctly there's

nothing

wrong with it nor is there anything to be ashmed of. purists may argue
differently but refusing to use pushfit over copper end feed is
ludditism
of the highest order.


You really don't know do you? Best use solder as the space in generally
inaccessible.

I thought your preferred method was pushfit and hacksaw


No: bull**** and old saws.

tony sayer wrote:

In article , David W.E. Roberts
writes

"kmillar" wrote in message
groups.com...

I need to add a new radiator to my house (hallway has none and it's
cold!)

I plan to tap into the CH Flow and Return pipes which already run
underneath there, and plan to use solder ring connections.

My question is this, the access panel for my crawl space is at the
opposite side of the house, so I have to go down beneath the floor and
haul myself along through the rubble to the place where the pipes will
go.

How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?

I'd rather not use 'speedfix' or compression if I can avoid it, just
for peice of mind.

Given all the additional precautions other posters have recommended this
does seem a high risk undertaking.

If you are averse to pushfit, have you considered compression joints?

The slightly higher cost will probably be offset by the lack of risk and
general issues over using a naked flame in a flammable substrate under a
wooden floor with a limited escape route.

Of course, real plumbers only use solder :-)

However, normal human beings can sometimes take alternative approaches.

HTH
Dave R



I think that is very good advice. If I were making some joints in a
rather inaccessible location where I couldn't be certain that I have
cleaned the pipe all the way round, or was unable to inspect the joint
either, I think I'd opt for compression fittings which I have done
before on some occasions.


I don't think I could make ANY joint on a piece of pipe I couldn't wrap
a strip of emery around and burnish, or get a pipe cutter around to cut,
or a small mirror behind to inspect afterwards...and CERTAINLY if I
couldn't get those around I'd be hard pressed to actually screw a
compression fitting on.

I've had FAR more trouble with compression fittings leaking than
soldered ones as well.




Its not a case of being a real plumber at all, just horses for courses,
otherwise why do you think they still make 'em?.....

AFAIAC the only good thing about a compression fitting is you can take
it apart without cutting a pipe. Having learnt to solder, I simply won't
ever use them unless I have to - generally when its not possible to do
otherwise - e.g. its very hard to solder a tap onto thr end of a pipe....;-)

I haven't used pushfit, but I have used teh odd flexible pipe. I think
they are extremely useful when retrofitting stuff to awkward places, and
the joints can be pretty reliable, I still prefer copper and solder
though. That IS prejudice - no reason to believe it's really any better.

In message , tony sayer
writes
I think that is very good advice. If I were making some joints in a
rather inaccessible location where I couldn't be certain that I have
cleaned the pipe all the way round, or was unable to inspect the joint
either, I think I'd opt for compression fittings which I have done
before on some occasions.

Its not a case of being a real plumber at all, just horses for courses,
otherwise why do you think they still make 'em?.....


Another reason for compression fittings in such a location in a retro
fit job is water dribbles. Even when you've drained the system, there's
often enough water dribbling around in the underfloor areas to make
soldering impossible.
I would do new bits in soldered, then put in a compression T to link
into the existing.

At the very least I always have a few compression fittings to hand just
in case of problems.
--
steve

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article .com,
"kmillar" writes:

Have you been round to my house? That's exactly what it's like!
And now that spring has sprung I'm expecting to come across loads of
spiders etc down there. Last time I was down was January when it was
too cold for spiders.


I've not seen any spiders under my floor. There are plenty of derelict
webs, but I rather suspect the owners were just occasional visitors
over the last 100 years and died of starvation as they didn't catch
any food.



A long time ago (about 15 years) I had an old fashioned bin (with a lid)
in the garden that we used to collect grass cuttings.
One late spring/early summer, I took the lid of and to my amazement
found the top of the bin coated with countless webs spun by the one and
only spider in residence. It must have lived in hope for the best part
of 9 months. I'm sure I saw it blink a lot when I took the lid off the
bin :-)

Nice to know the name of those big buggers that come into my house in
Autumn. Cardinal spiders are they!

They are most welcome. I hate flies, but love spiders :-)


Dave

get in there dont be a pus tack a burn mat in you need too.

kmillar wrote:
I need to add a new radiator to my house (hallway has none and it's
cold!)

I plan to tap into the CH Flow and Return pipes which already run
underneath there, and plan to use solder ring connections.

My question is this, the access panel for my crawl space is at the
opposite side of the house, so I have to go down beneath the floor and
haul myself along through the rubble to the place where the pipes will
go.

How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?

I'd rather not use 'speedfix' or compression if I can avoid it, just
for peice of mind.

-K


As somebody else pointed out it'll be a PITA trying to get the pipework
dry enough to solder. However I'm thinking about where you plan to tap
into the existing pipework: is this really the best place to conenct
your new rad in to? I'd be inclined to connect back to nearer the main
'trunk' pipework rather than a branch if possible, to ease balancing.
Maybe you have such pipework more easily accessible under the floor? In
which case I'd run the connections to the new rad in plastic (e.g. Hep2O
or Speedfit) and tap into the existing pipework with pushfit or
compression. Doesn't matter if the run to the new rad involves a few
metres of pipework, and it'll be a lot easier just dragging plastic
pipework under the floor and poking it up through a couple of holes in
the floor than firkling about trying to solder lying flat on your back
in a spider-infested rubble-strewn grave :-)

John Stumbles wrote:
kmillar wrote:
I need to add a new radiator to my house (hallway has none and it's
cold!)

I plan to tap into the CH Flow and Return pipes which already run
underneath there, and plan to use solder ring connections.

My question is this, the access panel for my crawl space is at the
opposite side of the house, so I have to go down beneath the floor and
haul myself along through the rubble to the place where the pipes will
go.

How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?

I'd rather not use 'speedfix' or compression if I can avoid it, just
for peice of mind.

-K


As somebody else pointed out it'll be a PITA trying to get the pipework
dry enough to solder. However I'm thinking about where you plan to tap
into the existing pipework: is this really the best place to conenct
your new rad in to? I'd be inclined to connect back to nearer the main
'trunk' pipework rather than a branch if possible, to ease balancing.
Maybe you have such pipework more easily accessible under the floor? In
which case I'd run the connections to the new rad in plastic (e.g. Hep2O
or Speedfit) and tap into the existing pipework with pushfit or
compression. Doesn't matter if the run to the new rad involves a few
metres of pipework, and it'll be a lot easier just dragging plastic
pipework under the floor and poking it up through a couple of holes in
the floor than firkling about trying to solder lying flat on your back
in a spider-infested rubble-strewn grave :-)

personally, I'd spike up through the floor with copper and take plastic
back to the main feed/return using pushfit. it's not as if it's totally
inaccessable, just difficult to get to and hard for a newbie to solder.



RT

is this really the best place to conenct
your new rad in to? I'd be inclined to connect back to nearer the main
'trunk' pipework rather than a branch

Yes, it is the main trunk, not a branch.

And I'm getting pretty good at the old solder joints now, but the
comments about water in the pipe is well worth noting - I hadn't
thought of that. So I'll do the link to the exiting pipework with brass
compression joints.

Thanks again all
-K

In article .com,
kmillar wrote:
And I'm getting pretty good at the old solder joints now, but the
comments about water in the pipe is well worth noting - I hadn't
thought of that.

If it's just a dribble - what's left in the pipe - you can usually spring
it down enough to get it out. Then possibly spring it up above horizontal
while soldering. Of course if it's running water, forget it.

--
*Am I ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , David W.E. Roberts
writes

"kmillar" wrote in message
roups.com...
I need to add a new radiator to my house (hallway has none and it's
cold!)

I plan to tap into the CH Flow and Return pipes which already run
underneath there, and plan to use solder ring connections.

My question is this, the access panel for my crawl space is at the
opposite side of the house, so I have to go down beneath the floor and
haul myself along through the rubble to the place where the pipes will
go.

How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?

I'd rather not use 'speedfix' or compression if I can avoid it, just
for peice of mind.

Given all the additional precautions other posters have recommended this
does seem a high risk undertaking.

If you are averse to pushfit, have you considered compression joints?

The slightly higher cost will probably be offset by the lack of risk and
general issues over using a naked flame in a flammable substrate under a
wooden floor with a limited escape route.

Of course, real plumbers only use solder :-)

However, normal human beings can sometimes take alternative approaches.

Open any plumbers van these days and you will find them full of plastic,
the norm is to use plastic where they can, copper where its visible or
necessary (rad tails etc)
--
David

wrote:
In article , David W.E. Roberts
writes

"kmillar" wrote in message
oups.com...
I need to add a new radiator to my house (hallway has none and it's
cold!)

I plan to tap into the CH Flow and Return pipes which already run
underneath there, and plan to use solder ring connections.

My question is this, the access panel for my crawl space is at the
opposite side of the house, so I have to go down beneath the floor and
haul myself along through the rubble to the place where the pipes will
go.

How safe is it to use a blow torch in this confined space? (About 18
inches of verticle space benathe the floors). Apart from the obvious
need to not set the house on fire, I'm more interested in the fumes
given off by the blow lamp. What can I do about those?

I'd rather not use 'speedfix' or compression if I can avoid it, just
for peice of mind.

Given all the additional precautions other posters have recommended this
does seem a high risk undertaking.

If you are averse to pushfit, have you considered compression joints?

The slightly higher cost will probably be offset by the lack of risk and
general issues over using a naked flame in a flammable substrate under a
wooden floor with a limited escape route.

Of course, real plumbers only use solder :-)

However, normal human beings can sometimes take alternative approaches.

Open any plumbers van these days and you will find them full of plastic,
the norm is to use plastic where they can, copper where its visible or
necessary (rad tails etc)

I've 2 plumbers in the family and they rarely use copper and only in the
circumstances you and I mention. far too much faffing about, especially
when time is money, especially OPM (other peoples money)



RT

kmillar wrote:
is this really the best place to conenct

your new rad in to? I'd be inclined to connect back to nearer the main
'trunk' pipework rather than a branch

Yes, it is the main trunk, not a branch.

And I'm getting pretty good at the old solder joints now, but the
comments about water in the pipe is well worth noting - I hadn't
thought of that. So I'll do the link to the exiting pipework with brass
compression joints.

Thanks again all
-K

This wate in te pipe is a load of old malarkey.

If the pipes are horizontal the water will fall out anyway.
If vertical going down, open a valve somewhere and blow the water out.

Only time its given me serous trouble was trying to fix a leaking joint
in a system full of water.

In article ,
wrote:
Open any plumbers van these days and you will find them full of plastic,
the norm is to use plastic where they can, copper where its visible or
necessary (rad tails etc)

Well, yes, but then they don't have to live in the house - or worry about
things lasting more than a year or so.

--
*If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"[news]" writes:

I've 2 plumbers in the family and they rarely use copper and only in the
circumstances you and I mention. far too much faffing about, especially
when time is money, especially OPM (other peoples money)

Seems like a good reason to DIY, where time isn't money.
The heating system I installed 3 years ago is all copper,
with end-feed soldered joints. (It was last drained and
filled 2 years ago, and has not needed topping up since.)

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
I've 2 plumbers in the family and they rarely use copper and only in the
circumstances you and I mention. far too much faffing about, especially
when time is money, especially OPM (other peoples money)

Seems like a good reason to DIY, where time isn't money.
The heating system I installed 3 years ago is all copper,
with end-feed soldered joints. (It was last drained and
filled 2 years ago, and has not needed topping up since.)

Yup. Surely the main reason to DIY is to get the best possible end result
*and* save money?

Copper tube with solder fittings is cheaper than push fit plastic - and
*proved* to last a lifetime and more.

--
*Reality is the illusion that occurs due to the lack of alcohol *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
"[news]" writes:

I've 2 plumbers in the family and they rarely use copper and only in the
circumstances you and I mention. far too much faffing about, especially
when time is money, especially OPM (other peoples money)

Seems like a good reason to DIY, where time isn't money.
The heating system I installed 3 years ago is all copper,
with end-feed soldered joints. (It was last drained and
filled 2 years ago, and has not needed topping up since.)

I did mine all in plastic except for the boiler connections, airing
cupboard and rad tails, its getting on for 4 years old now, the only
time I have re-pressurised is when I have added or removed a rad.
--
David